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Gov. Ron DeSantis Campaigns In New Hampshire; Civil Rights Group Sue Harvard Over Legacy Admissions; Video Captures GA Deputy Saving Woman From A Burning Car; In California Toxic Algea Blooms Are Making Sea Lions Sick; Deadly Shootings In Texas and Pennsylvania. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 04, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point they still feel this race is winnable. Of course, despite how far behind they are in the polls, they still are way ahead of everyone else in the poll. It really has been former President Donald Trump, who by latest CNN polls has been around 47 percent. And then Ron DeSantis, around 26 percent than everyone else in single digits.

And to this point, the spokesperson for the pro-DeSantis super PAC Never Back Down said this is what they feel they are way behind, but take a listen to how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE CORTES, SPOKESMAN FOR PRO-DESANTIS "NEVER BACK DOWN" SUPER PAC: Look, right now in national polling, we are way behind. I'll be the first to admit that, OK. I believe in being really blunt, and really honest. It's an uphill battle. I don't think it's an unwinnable battle by any stretch, OK. But clearly, Donald Trump is the runaway frontrunner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And one of the reasons he cited later on in that answer was that the recent indictments he feels has actually solidified GOP voter base around the foreign president and made things a little bit even more difficult for some of these other candidates. Even after former President Trump was indicted in Florida for allegedly mishandling classified documents.

I came up here and I talked to some of his supporters here in New Hampshire to see if that made any sort of a difference and it only seemed to embolden them. So that is the dynamic that all of these candidates today Fourth of July, it's part of why they're out and about across the country here in New Hampshire a little bit later today here in Merrimack, New Hampshire.

We're going to see for the Governor Ron DeSantis, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, North Dakota Governor, Doug Burgum, and more as they come through here. But then over in Iowa, we're also going to see former Vice President Mike Pence, former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, all of them out and about to try and make some inroads to again, what so far has been a runaway raise, polling have indicated for former President Donald Trump but it's still very early. And this is where all of these candidates I think are going to try and make some progress.

SIDNER: They ought to get the primary before they go on to the general so a lot of shaking hands and kissing babies. Thank you so much, Omar Jimenez, appreciate it, John.

BERMAN: This morning the Wall Street Journal reports his special counsel Jack Smith's investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election is zeroing in on Donald Trump's lawyers. The Journal reports prosecutors have issued subpoenas and questions several key figures including attorney Sidney Powell.

Powell helped spread baseless claims of widespread election fraud to bolster the former president's efforts to overturn his 2020 loss to Joe Biden. CNN recently reported that investigators also spoke to Rudy Giuliani, who was Trump's personal lawyer at the time.

With us now is Former Deputy Assistant Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security and Former Federal Prosecutor Paul Rosenzweig, Paul, great to see you this morning. What are the areas of possible illegality that investigators could be looking at? What is it that the lawyers for Trump then could have done that withdraw legal questions?

PAUL ROSENZWEIG, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR POLICY, DHS: Well, I think it depends upon whether you're talking about the false electoral scheme in Georgia or the false voting scheme in Congress. In each of them, the attorneys in question are likely to have provided advice to Donald Trump, about the legality of his conduct, probably telling him it was illegal in some cases.

Rudy Giuliani is famous for having been reportedly in a meeting with Trump and Sidney Powell, which degenerated into a yelling match, because Powell's advice was so crazy, that even Giuliani thought it was untenable. That kind of evidence of conversations that happen with the president would go directly to speak to his state of mind, as he continued his course of conduct, notwithstanding the advice of his attorneys.

BERMAN: It's interesting. So it gets to his state of mind. Its possible investigators are trying to talk to these people, not because of what they may have done if they engage in illegal activity, but their testimony could provide evidence to prosecute someone else, even the president.

ROSENZWEIG: I think that's right. But actually, I think it's both. I mean, if you're Rudy Giuliani, you don't go in and make a proffer to the prosecutor, unless you at least have some fear that you yourself might be at risk of, of prosecution of people who are just witnesses to a crime.

If I see a murderer on the street, I don't make a proffer; I just go in and testify. So Giuliani obviously has some fear of personal liability for his conduct. And he's trying to trade where he's offered to trade reportedly, his knowledge of what Trump has done in exchange for lenity from the special prosecutor.

BERMAN: CNN has reported and the Wall Street Journal was reporting that Rudy Giuliani when he went in to testify did so with a proffer agreement, also campaign in a Mike Roman under the same circumstances. Can you explain to our audience what that means what that proffer is, because you were just alluding to it?

[09:35:00]

ROSENZWEIG: OK, well, a proffer agreement is simply an agreement between the prosecutor and a potential witness who's also a potential defendant to have what is essentially an off the record conversation. You come in Mr. Defendant, and tell me what you would testify to, if I were to give you a deal? Tell me the things that you can say that would help me prove the case against somebody else.

Typically, it happens, for example, in large criminal conspiracies, the mafia, Hitman testifies that the dawn ordered him to do the, to do the shooting. So his lawyer tells the prosecutor, hey, let me come in. I'll tell you what I can tell you. And if the prosecutor thinks its good enough, he gives the lower level person a deal.

And he takes the testimony of that lower level person against the leader here, the lower level persons Giuliani and other attorneys. And the person that's obviously in the targets is of the special prosecutors with President Trump.

BERMAN: The phrase is what, Queen for a Day?

ROSENZWEIG: Yes, yes, the phrase Queen for a Day is just prosecutor shorthand for one of these, one of these proffer agreements. You will have one day in which to convince me that I should be lenient with you. I will make you the queen of the court, for example, and you get to you get to tell me everything under a veil of secrecy.

I can't use what you tell me in court. So I can't then go into court if we don't make a deal and say, well, Rudy Giuliani said in our meeting that he did x, y and z. So I give you this one day's worth of immunity and make you in effect royalty for a single day. And then that's your opportunity to convince the prosecutor, to convince me that the deal is worthwhile.

BERMAN: Yes, it is interesting because there are implications there it does imply that most likely there is activity from what you do need immunity from it. It also implies there is another target beyond you that they are looking, at all these things tend to be true and investigations like this. Paul Rosenzweig thanks so much, happy Fourth of July. We appreciate your help and understanding all this.

ROSENZWEIG: Happy Fourth of July to you as well.

BERMAN: Sara?

SIDNER: On our radar this morning, the reward is now $20,000 for information in connection to a series of explosions in Washington, DC. Police released these surveillance pictures of the suspect. They said early Sunday morning he detonated explosive devices near an ATM and a Nike store and then threw a Molotov cocktail style object at a Safeway store.

All three locations were damaged but no one was hurt. In California toxic algae blooms are making sea lions sick. LA county officials are warning people as well to stay away from the animals because they can become unusually aggressive when they're sick.

When Marine Institute reported instances of sea lions biting surfers and charging at people and dogs, local officials say more than 100 sea lions have been poisoned by a neurotoxin in the algae and they are trying to save them.

Also a federal judge has blocked a Florida voter registration law, legislation by the way was backed by Governor Ron DeSantis and would have made it illegal for people convicted of certain felonies and for non-citizens, including permanent legal residents to collect or handle voter registration applications. But the judge issued a scathing rebuke.

He said the challenge provisions in the law "Exemplify" something Florida has struggled with in recent years, namely governing within the bounds set by the United States Constitution. John?

BERMAN: All right Sara, just after the Supreme Court's affirmative action ruling advocacy groups are now taking aim at legacy admissions. In other words, if you are the child of someone who went to a school should you get preferential treatment to get in to set school? We're going to speak to one of the lawyers who is taking action.

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[09:40:00]

SIDNER: In the wake of the Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action three minority advocacy groups are now taking on legacy admissions at Harvard. The lawsuit accuses the University of Discrimination by giving special consideration during the admission process to the children of donors and alumni.

Roughly 40 percent of Harvard's excepted undergraduates are white, but the lawsuit cites a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research that found 70 percent of legacy applicants are white. And those legacy applicants are six to seven times more likely to gain admission to Harvard.

Joining us now are Michael Kippins with Lawyers for Civil Rights and Abdul Hussein, CEO and Founder of African Community Economic Development of New England. All right, so the Supreme Court case that we all watched go down, they decided that in Harvard in North Carolina, those are the two places that brought the case.

They ruled that race could not be considered a factor in college admissions, and they cited the 14th amendment of equal protections under the law. You are arguing if race cannot be a factor, and make sure I get this right. You're arguing that race cannot be a factor in admissions, and then in all fairness, neither can legacy. Michael, how are you trying to force colleges to get rid of legacy admissions?

MICHAEL A. KIPPINS, FLED CIVIL RIGHTS COMPLAINT CHALLENGING HARVARD'S LEGACY ADMISSIONS: Sure, so first, thank you for having me. Then second, I'd like to clarify just one thing I would say that the Supreme Court did not necessarily eliminate entirely the use of race in admissions in higher education.

[09:45:00]

But it did substantially limit the use of race as a consideration. So with respect to the federal civil rights complaint that we lawyers for civil rights filed yesterday, we are saying that legacy and donor preferences that are given to applicants who have family ties to Harvard donors and Harvard Alumni should not receive that benefit. It is discriminatory towards applicants of color, and it harms the educational opportunity for those populations.

SIDNER: Abdul, let me ask you what your role in this, and why wait until now, to bring this complaint because legacy admissions have, of course, been around for decades and decades.

ABDUL HUSSEIN, CEO AND FOUNDER, AFRICAN COMMUNITY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF NEW ENGLAND: You know, so first of all, thanks for having me. Because of the last decision by the Supreme Court, I think it's the time to end this, you know, unfair admission policy, which is called legacy policy. It's really impacting, you know, all of our students, people, students of color.

And I think it is exactly the time that we need to end that practice. And as you know, that Harvard has been practicing this for some time. We're just looking, you know, equal opportunity and equal access for all students.

SIDNER: Michael, can you explain to me your legacy, like race has nothing to do with merit? So why do you think that Harvard has fought against removing legacy admissions, is that just about money?

KIPPINS: Well, I won't speak for Harvard on that account; I don't want to do that. What I will say is it has been a long standing policy. And it has been one that has overwhelmingly benefited white applicants, as you said in the beginning, up to 70 percent of the students who are admitted through these donor and legacy preferences are white.

And they make up in some cases for legacy up to almost a third of the class, which is a clear, that's a clear thing to say that it's not fair. It's an unjust and unearned benefit, and these applicants are receiving the benefit based on work or money donated by other people.

It is not an individual merit situation; it is not something where they're being considered on an equal playing field with their colleagues with their fellow applicants. And it's a practice that needs to be eliminated as it violates the federal law. SIDNER: Mike, let me just quickly ask you this. How will this work going forward after this complaint has been filed with the Department of Education?

KIPPINS: Sure, so we as lawyers for civil rights fully expect that the Department of Education and the Office for Civil Rights will launch an investigation, and that it will be deliberate, that it will have widespread scope. And we urge the Department of Education to get data from schools from all schools that have these practices and their admissions policies to provide these preferences to the applicants with family ties to donors and to alumni.

And we have full confidence that given the importance and the timing of this issue, especially in light of the Supreme Court's decision last week that the Department of Education will take this seriously. We'll investigate and we'll take appropriate action.

SIDNER: Michael Kippins with the Lawyers For Civil Rights and Abdul Hussein, thank you both for joining us on this issue that has a lot of people's attention. We appreciate it and have a good Fourth of July.

BERMAN: So the diabetes drug Ozempic is in short supply and high demand because it helps some people lose weight. Now an herbal supplement is being touted as nature's Ozempic. A Georgia deputy is being commended for his bravery after rescuing a woman from a burning car was all caught on video.

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[09:50:00]

BERMAN: This morning a Georgia sheriff is being hailed as a hero after pulling a woman out of her burning car. His body camera captured the dramatic rescue over the weekend. Sergeant Ashley Taylor was responding to a car that had gone off the highway crash into the woods and caught fire, here's the video. After all that the driver is expected to be OK. Sara?

SIDNER: Wow. All right, the dietary supplement Berberine is sparking a lot of buzz on social media. Some even are calling it nature's Ozempic. Some TikTok users have claimed taking the herbal supplement has helped them lose weight, a lot of weight. CNN Health Reporter Jacqueline Howard joins us now. Jacqueline, is it effective at all for weight loss?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, that's the thing, Sara; we really don't have much clinical trial data on the effectiveness of Berberine specifically for weight loss. Now what I can tell you there's one study that shows that is associated with a reduction in body mass index is 0.25 drop in BMI units. But people taking Ozempic, people taking Wegovy tend to see a 4.61 drop in BMI.

[09:55:00]

So there's that difference there. So we'd need more research. Now what I can tell you as far as risks and benefits risks of Berberine include some side effects like abdominal pain, constipation, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, people who are pregnant or breastfeeding should not take this supplement and it might interact with certain medications.

Now, there is some evidence showing benefits where it may have a modest effect at lowering blood glucose levels. For people with Type 2 diabetes, it also may help lower cholesterol levels. But bottom line Sara, we really need more scientific evidence before anyone can call this nature's Ozempic. And we need to weigh the risks and benefits.

SIDNER: All right, thank you so much, Jacqueline Howard for that. John?

BERMAN: A new night of deadly shootings. Eight lives lost in Pennsylvania and Texas. We have the latest on the investigations. The terror attack in Tel Aviv with eight people injured, what police are saying about the civilian who took down the attacker.

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