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Zelenskyy Says, Objects Resembling Explosives on Nuclear Plant; Philly Mass Shooting Suspect Held Without Bail; Today, Mike Pence Campaigns in Iowa. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 05, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:03]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: First, the explosions behind me that you're seeing lighting up Russian-occupied -- the Russian-occupied area of Donetsk overnight, Ukraine's army reportedly unleashing heavy shelling to reclaim their land.

This is happening as President Zelenskyy is now raising the alarm for a potential nuclear disaster. He says Russia has now placed objects that resemble explosives on two reactors in Zaporizhzhia.

Plus, did Chinese President Xi warn Putin against using nuclear weapons when the pair had a friendly face to face meeting in March? There are reports that he, in fact, did. The Kremlin, though, denying that.

CNN's Scott McLean is in London following all of the major developments. Let's start with the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. It is the largest in Europe. What are you learning about what Zelenskyy is saying and how Russia is responding now?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Sara, look, both times are essentially accusing themselves of trying to set up some kind of a false flag operation and sabotage operation. The Russians say that they are no threat at all to this power plant. In fact, they say that it's the Ukrainians who pose the threat. The Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said earlier today, quote, there is a great threat of sabotage by Kyiv, which can have catastrophic consequences.

The Kremlin has also previously pointed out that inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency are on site. And it was actually last week that the director general, Rafael Grossi, put out this statement saying, in part, I instructed our experts at the site to look into this matter and request the access they need for doing their job. Until now, they have not observed any mines or other explosives, but he stresses this part, further access will still be needed.

Now, President Zelenskyy also hasn't come up with any evidence, or at least publicly shared any evidence that there are, in fact, explosives sitting on top of this nuclear power plant, as you said, the largest in Europe. But he is repeating something that his military has said earlier, and that is that they believe that any explosion here would make it look like this was Ukrainian shelling, but wouldn't be powerful enough to actually cause any consequential damage to the actual power plant itself. But this, of course, is risky business when we're talking about nuclear power.

The Ukrainians say that they're doing drills to prepare with their emergency services. The Russians say that they're ready as well. All of this is sort of this giant buildup, the safety mechanisms that are in place at the site. And we have this satellite image that kind of illustrates this. At the top there, you see those reactors in a row. They're actually built to withstand, at least in theory, the impact of an accidental plane crashing into them. How they would react to weapons of war, though, we don't have a clear answer on that, though.

And also keep in mind that at the bottom of your screen there, those dark triangles or those dark rectangles, those are cooling ponds used to store spent fuel rods, and they have no protection at all. And so, again, not a lot of margin for error here.

One other thing to mention, Sara, and that is that President Zelenskyy's logic here in accusing Russia of this potential sabotage or false flag operation is that because there was no widespread global response to the collapse of the Kakhovka Dam in Southern Ukraine, he believes that that will only embolden Russia. Though, to be clear, there is no clear evidence as to who or what was behind that dam collapse at this point. Sara?

SIDNER: We've seen what happened in Russia-controlled Donetsk. Give us some sense of where Ukraine stands now with its counteroffensive.

MCLEAN: Yes, that's right, a lot of shelling, a lot of bombing going back and forth across the frontlines overnight. You showed those incredible images from Donetsk City. That is worth pointing out, especially since that that is a city that has been under Russian occupation since 2014, and it is now seeing this increasing intensity of Ukrainian strikes.

Obviously, the Russians have had their own strikes into Ukrainian territory. One village that was or one town, I should say, that was hit yesterday was hit while there was a funeral service for a fallen Russian soldier. As a result, more than 40 people were injured, including two babies under the age of one.

Broadly speaking, Sara, the Ukrainians say that they are having some success around Bakhmut, that very highly contested city, but elsewhere, they say that it is, frankly, a pretty tough slog to actually move the frontline forward.

SIDNER: Scott McLean. Thank you. And we're looking at those incredible images there from Russia-controlled Donetsk.

Let us talk now about an exclusive that Erin Burnett got. Ukraine's President Zelenskyy is sharing new insights about last month's insurrection in Russia. Zelenskyy says the Wagner rebellion is proof that Vladimir Putin is losing control of his own people. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[10:05:00] VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Half of Russia supported Prigozhin. Half of Russia supported Putin. We know from our intelligence reports that Kremlin was conducting all those surveys. 18 or 19 regions of Russia firmly supported Prigozhin's actions, 21 regions of Russia firmly supporting Putin.

Some of the Russian regions were in the balancing. In the meantime, without knowing for sure who to support. We all see this process that shows half of the Russian population is in serious doubt. All those stories that he controls everything, these are feeble stories now.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: But you're saying half of the Russian regions did not support Putin would support Prigozhin. So, does that mean there will be another challenge to Putin's power? I mean, that's a dramatic split.

ZELENSKYY: I think that Putin will make attempt to consolidate his society. He will make everything in order to break and nullify the Wagnerites fame and everything they were doing. He will be distancing himself from all that and will be communicating extensively in order to unify the society.

His society is ununified. Pay attention to this interesting example. After all these events, where did Putin go? I can tell you, he rarely comes out to the street. We see him in his offices, et cetera, but we never see him out and about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right. You can watch Erin's full interview with Zelenskyy tonight at 7:00 P.M. Eastern. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: We have also this just coming in. The suspected shooter accused of the deadly rampage in Philadelphia is being held without bail. 40-year-old Kimbrady Carriker's arraignment had just wrapped up minutes ago. He's been charged with five counts of murder, five counts of attempted murder, and police say he was dressed in a bulletproof vest and a ski mask, was firing at random, at cars driving by, and people walking down the street. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JIM KENNEY (D-PHILADELPHIA, PA): Point of fact is a person like that walking down a city street with an AR-15 and shooting randomly at people is a disgraceful situation in the United States of America, whether it's July 4th or any other day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: All right. So, let's go there right now. CNN's Danny Freeman, he was just inside the courthouse as this arraignment played out. Danny, what happened?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, court just let out about 30 minutes ago when we saw on a video conference for this preliminary arraignment, Kimbrady Carriker, like you said, 40 years old, sitting there in a white jumpsuit, largely for the proceedings. He had his arms crossed and just said mostly one word answers when the magistrate judge and his appointed public defender addressed him in the courtroom today.

Now, as you said, the judge read out a number of charges, including murder, violation of the Uniform Firearms Act, and other firearms offenses as well, including owning a firearm without a license, and then attempted murder as well.

And when it got to that point about setting bail, the magistrate judge said that public safety in this instance is clearly an issue here, and there is no set of conditions in which the defendant in this case would not be considered a flight risk. So, bail was set, of course -- set with no bail. He is being held without the possibility of bail at this particular moment.

And, Kate, this all stems back to that July 3rd shooting that happened 8:30 at night, five people ultimately killed. The district attorney, Larry Krasner, he actually spoke with CNN This Morning. And he spoke about the big question that we've all been having, what may have led up to this? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KRASNER, PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We don't have any more information than that. It was a random, premeditated, deliberate killing carried out with an assault rifle, and he was also carrying a ghost gun.

There is good reason to believe that his purchase of the AR and his either manufacturer or purchase of a ghost gun, which, of course, are not sold through official vendors, there's good reason to think that it may have been obtained illegally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Now, the Philly D.A.'s office is expected to have a press conference a little later this afternoon to talk through some of these charges and discuss this particular shooting and the impact it's had on the larger community, especially in the southwest, where this shooting happened.

Meanwhile, as for Carriker, his next court date, it's going to be on July 24th. Kate, back to you.

BOLDUAN: Danny, thank you so much for bringing us the very latest from inside court. That's in Philadelphia. John, that, unfortunately, is not the only shooting that we're seeing this weekend.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: No, not at all. And we keep learning about more. We just learned that a 14-year-old was killed at a block party just after midnight in Salisbury, Maryland. Six other people were wounded. In Louisiana, three people are dead, seven others injured after shots were fired at Shreveport's annual Independence Day celebration. And in Washington, D.C., mine people were injured when a gunman drove by and shot into the yard where they were celebrating. [10:10:01]

One of the victims was just nine years old.

With us now is seen in CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey. Commissioner, great to have you here.

You've run big city police departments. When you July 4th or big days like that on the calendar, is there anything you can do to prepare to get ready to try to mitigate possible violence?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAWE ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, yes. Holidays, particularly the summer holidays, are always problematic. And when they occur, especially on a weekend, anytime Friday through Monday, even though this year, it was Tuesday, is particularly bad in terms of violence and shootings, things of that nature.

So, what do you do to prepare? Usually, you extend overtime. Sometimes you have to cancel days off and try to get as many resources as possible, because you can't just cover block parties and other events without draining resources from neighborhoods. And you never know when these things are going to happen. You just mentioned several of them occurred at block parties, for an example.

We encourage people to let the police known when you're going to plan a block party. So, I believe we can have try to have some coverage there. In some cases, people do, other cases, they don't. But it's always problematic.

BERMAN: You've been an advocate of community policing for some time. What can that do bigger picture over the course of an entire summer?

RAMSEY: Better communication between the police and the community when events take place, but also when something does happen, people not being afraid to step up and provide information. When these things occur, somebody knows who is responsible or at least know why it possibly occurred. But if people are afraid to speak up maybe out of fear of retaliation but sometimes out of a lack of trust in police, either way, police don't get the information that they need to have to be able to bring these people to justice.

At some point in time, we have to recognize that this is not going to stop unless the people who use guns to commit violent crime are taken off the streets. That can only happen with the help of the community.

BERMAN: So, in the '90s, there was a spike in gun violence. It was called an epidemic. There was the crime bill. There was a doubling of funding for the ATF to get more cops on the streets and do other things. Would that work? Is that avenue even available in 2023, do you think?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it could help always, I mean, more staffing. Because right now, police departments across the country are understaffed, which certainly adds to the problem. But when we had that outbreak of crime in the late '80s, early '90s that was driven primarily through the crack epidemic, if you recall, just opening drug markets and so forth, I was still in Chicago at the time, and that's where we experienced during that period of time.

It certainly did help but, again, it's not a permanent solution. The only permanent solution is for police and community to work together, for legislatures to really do something to try to get a handle on these guns that are on the street, particularly assault weapons. So, it's going to really -- it's not easy. It's complicated, but we can fix this if we all sit down and come up with reasonable solutions, some solutions short-term, some long-term. But we need to have the conversation and put in place those things that are going to have an impact.

We can't keep doing this every single day. We're talking about a mass shooting or violence somewhere in this country that, in my opinion, could be avoided or at least have an impact, lessen the impact if we did take time to do what we need to do.

BERMAN: Charles Ramsey, always great to see you. Thank you so much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, campaign 2024, Mike Pence with his eyes squarely on the Iowa prize today. But questions about his role and challenges to the 2020 election that keep trailing him, we'll explain.

Plus, a potential blow to the Biden administration's fight against misinformation, what a Trump-appointed judge says the White House now cannot ask of social media companies.

And a day at the fair turned into a terrifying experience for some people in Wisconsin. This is very clearly why, stuck upside down on a roller coaster for hours. We have more details coming in. We'll be right back.

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[10:15:00]

BERMAN: This morning, former Vice President and Republican Presidential Candidate Mike Pence is making his first stop of the day in Iowa. Pence is on a three-day blitz across the critical caucus state.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now. And, Kristen, Iowa is the centerpiece to the Pence plan for victory at least to close the gap in the polls, correct?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John. That's absolutely right. I was talking to advisers and allies before Pence even announced who said that Iowa was going to be critical for Mike Pence because of these evangelical voters, because of these traditional conservative voters. And they do believe there is an opening for Mike Pence, that these voters are looking for an alternative to the former president.

Now, I want you to listen to what Mike Pence himself said about why he was in Iowa while other candidates weren't.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I can't account for what other campaigns decided, but for me, it was vitally important to be here, where the journey to the White House always begins, and to spend two miles at times jogging uphill to take our case to the people of Iowa. And I promise you, we're going to keep running that hard all the way to the finish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And of course, it's unclear this early on whether or not this strategy is going to work.

[10:20:01]

All the polls that we've seen still have him, as well as other candidates, in the low single-digit numbers.

But I do want to point out one thing, which was even while he was trying to differentiate himself from the former president, to separate himself from former President Trump, he was still asked about it multiple times, asked about the former president during those campaign stops. So, it's hard for him to make a path for himself when Trump continues to take up so much oxygen.

BERMAN: Uphill might be the right metaphor and Mike Pence provided it just there when he's talking about jogging at the parade.

So, during the 4th July, most of the Republican candidates were out. Donald Trump not. Trump was not out campaigning. But Ron DeSantis hit some parades in New Hampshire. What's he looking at right now, Kristen?

HOLMES: Well, look, I'm talking to some of his advisers, some of his allies who say they just really believe DeSantis needs to get out there more, to talk to more voters. We actually heard in Twitter Spaces the spokesperson for his super PAC saying that he believes that outside of Florida, DeSantis is still relatively unknown. He also said that he was way behind in national polling. So, they had an uphill battle, but that they knew that they needed to get out there to really give him that name recognition and get him face-to-face with voters.

And that is what we are hearing that they are doing and that's why we're seeing him on the campaign trail. Again, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. We've heard mixed results when DeSantis is in the field, but they do want to get him out there and make sure that people are learning more about him.

BERMAN: One thing to look for is when you hear from super PAC officials, they can't talk directly to campaign officials, so they often talk to us to get the message out there for what they want to see the campaign doing. These big money people are like, you know what we'd like to see Ron DeSantis do? Get out there and talk to people so the campaign pays attention. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much for being there. Kate?

BOLDUAN: It's a great point, John. And July 4th is always a very big day for the candidates to meet with voters and where they spend their time can be informative, as John and Kristen were just talking about.

Joining us right now is former Presidential Adviser and CNN Senior Political Analyst David Gergen. It's good to see you, David.

I want to show for everyone just kind of a map of where the candidates were, largely speaking. We know that Mike Pence, he was in Iowa. You can see also Francis Suarez was in Iowa, but also some of the other candidates, Ron DeSantis, New Hampshire, Will Hurd, New Hampshire, Doug Burgum, New Hampshire, Tim Scott, New Hampshire. So, you see the split between Iowa and New Hampshire, no surprise there. Donald Trump not on the trail at all. What does that tell you about the fight for the Republican nomination at this moment?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That we have a runaway candidate, Donald Trump, he's opened a wider lead over DeSantis, surprisingly. Some of the polls show he's had as much as 30 points ahead of DeSantis and Republican primaries.

So, Mike Pence has to pull off an upset in a place like Iowa, and that's the possibility he could. Mike Pence has got Midwest written all over him. That's sort of where he comes from. And that's different from DeSantis. That's different from Christie, who are more sort of East Coast oriented than he has a shot. I think that my personal belief is that Pence has a shot.

DeSantis, I thought he would be doing better by now, and it's apparent that he's having really hard time translating Florida into the country at large. He's wildly popular in Florida, and it is one of our three biggest states, but nonetheless, it's not translating very well. He's been a bit of a bit of stumbles.

One has a sense he hasn't quite found his footing or his voice. But he has six months before the primaries. And you could easily see that Donald Trump is found guilty, you have another set of charges, criminal charges, and DeSantis has found his metier, he's got his feet solidly on the ground, and he's starting to click, then it could become a much, much more closer race.

BOLDUAN: It's interesting you say, it seems, at least right now, how you translate Florida to the rest of the country. But when you look at the early states, it's also a question, David, is how do you translate Iowa to the rest of the country? Because Pence's clear focus is obviously runs right through Iowa. But do you see a good strategy there, as you well know, and any political watcher also remembers, is that Iowa, winning the caucuses is not a great predictor of winning the nomination?

GERGEN: No. But if the polls were showing Trump, say, 15, 20 points ahead in Iowa and Pence were to win it and come from behind kind of victory, there would be a lot of hoop to do about that. And does it show that the polls are not actually a good way to understand this race? So, six months before the primaries, there is still a lot of this story to be written. There are chapters that have not yet been started. And I just think we have to be a little patient. But right now, you have to say it's stunning and how far, how strongly Trump has come out of this.

[10:25:00]

I mean, CNN has got op-ed pieces now on his website pointing out that Trump had a massive crowd in South Carolina, and that's a pretty key state, too. That's the state that helped to elect Joe Biden president.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. Mike Pence, just focusing on him, he is working hard to draw distinctions and draw a bright line, if you will, but between him and Donald Trump, as he's hitting the trail. I wonder how hard you think it really will be in the end for him to make a clean break without alienating people further. Because Mike Pence, even in Iowa, is answering questions related to Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, this having to do with phone calls that Mike Pence was asked to make to Arizona's -- the former Arizona governor, Doug Ducey. Pence was asked about this yesterday. Let me play for you how he answered it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: In the aftermath of the election, there were so many questions in a half a dozen states, some 60 lawsuits that have been filed. Many states were going through a very orderly process of reviewing their election results. And I was asked to check in with a few governors, but there was no pressure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And, look, David, we know that Donald Trump has been unique in terms of his life as a politician. But how hard, in your experience, do you think it will be for Mike Pence to make a clean enough break from Donald Trump in order to beat him?

GERGEN: Very. Let's contrast Chris Christie with Mike Pence. Chris Christie is able to go out and make a clean break because there are no contradictions. There is a time when he said some nice things about Trump, but he's been very tough on him and I think gaining some points as being the most effective anti-Trump person so far.

Whereas Mike Pence is trying to have it both ways, he's trying to keep the Trump base by being hesitant about criticizing Trump very much. That whole clip that you just showed shows a certain amount of caution and sort of speaking about his relationship with Trump because he's trying to keep the base while also building upon the base. And that's an extremely hard thing to do when you've got an extreme candidate like Trump. You're trying to beat him. How do you how do you get beyond Trump?

DeSantis is going to the right of Trump. I mean, he's sort of out- trumping Trump, which has been a real surprise for me, too. I would thought coming out of Florida, he'd have a much more measured campaign. I think he would have been doing better.

BOLDUAN: So, interesting. As you said, six months to go, let's see. As long as you're around for this wild ride, David, that's all I care about. It's good to see you. Thank you. Sara?

SIDNER: Coming up, they're planning an actual cage match. But, first, they're going to battle it out for social media users. If you don't like the changes Twitter just implemented, Meta's Mark Zuckerberg says he's got an alternative to Elon Musk's Twitter.

Also, Israel launches airstrikes as retaliation from its actions in the West Bank continues. Plus, we take a look at Jenin after Israel ends its largest military operation there in the West Bank in two decades. It's a response, they say, to retaliatory attacks from Palestinian militants. That's ahead.

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