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White House Holds News Briefing On War In Ukraine, Reports U.S. To Send Cluster Munitions To Ukraine; Special Council Focusing On Chaotic 2020 WH Meeting; U.S. Job Market Cooled Off In June, Adding 209K Jobs. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired July 07, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I have two questions. First on munitions. Germany opposed them. Does that suggest any cracks in the alliance to you? What do you make of the opposition?
JACK SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: So, first, what I saw Germany say today was three things. Number one, they're confident the United States took this decision carefully and after weighing all considerations.
Number two, Russia has used these in an intolerable way to attack Ukraine.
And three, every weapon system Ukraine is using, it's using to defend its people and to retake its own sovereign territory.
I think if you read what the German chancellery and German spokesperson put out today, you'll see they are a signatory to Oslo. They don't transfer -- they don't have or transfer cluster munitions.
But nothing in what they have said today suggests there are any cracks in NATO unity. Quite the contrary.
There is deep understanding, we believe, across the alliance about the fundamental challenge Ukraine faces and about our collective desire to ensure we are providing Ukraine with what it needs to defend itself.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sorry. When it comes to --
SULLIVAN: Please.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us specifically when the president signed the authorization? Also, we have seen over the course of this war how there were some no-go topics, F-16s, cluster munitions. Both of those are moving forward.
Is there a line where the U.S. won't cross? Obviously, the president has said no U.S. personnel inside Ukraine.
Is there some other limit, or does this suggest to President Zelenskyy that whatever he needs, ultimately, he will get?
SULLIVAN: The president has been very clear from the very beginning of this conflict about two things that have been unwavering. First, the United States is not going to war with Russia in Ukraine.
Second, the United States is not providing weapons to attack Russia. We don't encourage or enable attacks on Russian territory from Ukraine.
The question of weapon systems has evolved as the conflict evolved. Those two fundamental precepts were true from the start and will remain today and they will be true tomorrow as well.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you sign it?
SULLIVAN: I can't give the exact specifics on that but -- because, you know, I'll let the internal processes kind of have their sanctity. But he approved it, as I said, after a unanimous recommendation from his national security team.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You said that NATO is stronger than ever at this point. What does it say that there are two NATO members who have been holding up Sweden's ability to join the alliance for more than a year now?
SULLIVAN: So the last NATO ally to come into the alliance before Finland, I believe it was Montenegro, and I think it took something like 19 months for them to come in.
I think a lot of people's perceptions about the accession process have been shaped by just how fast we moved to get Sweden and Finland ratified here in the United States on a bipartisan basis, how fast Finland came in, and then how it has only been a year since Sweden sought membership.
We are confident that Sweden will come in in the not-too-distant future, and there will be unanimous support for that.
Then I would go beyond that to say in terms of what it says about NATO's strength, here you have two historically non-aligned countries, who for decades did not join NATO, seeking to join NATO.
I think there is no clearer indication of the strength, attraction and cohesion of NATO than that.
Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Jake.
So I understand your point about requirements Ukraine still needs to do in order to fast track its membership. Also, your point on map.
But just going broader from that, my understanding is that the president believes that a fast-track membership for Ukraine is an invitation rather than a deterrence to war with Russia. He has several times expressed his concern for nuclear escalation.
Can you first confirm whether my understanding is correct? And, if so, can you explain the calculus behind the president's decision on that, what led him to that conclusion?
SULLIVAN: The president has repeatedly said that there is an open door, that there is a pathway for Ukraine, and that Ukraine needs to take additional reforms to complete its work toward NATO membership.
That has been his position from the beginning. That remains true today. That will remain true at Vilnius.
The president also has been clear that we are going to support Ukraine for as long as it takes and provide them an exceptional quantity of arms and capabilities, both from ourselves and facilitating those from allies and partners, but that we are not seeking to start World War III.
That is the course we've been on since the start of this conflict. That is the course we remain on today. We believe we have been able to mount a vigorous, concerted, effective, dynamic response to Russia's aggression in support of the brave people of Ukraine.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One more. Can you confirm that the former U.S. officials have held secret talks with Ukraine with prominent Russians to lay the groundwork for a negotiation toward a peace deal?
[14:35:04]
SULLIVAN: I actually appreciate this question because I think that the reporting suggested something that, in fact, has not happened.
My understanding is there was a meeting with the Council on Foreign Relations with the foreign minister of Russia. That meeting didn't include participation from the United States government.
The United States government didn't pass messages through the meeting. The United States didn't seek to pursue diplomacy, indirect or direct or otherwise through that meeting, period.
There are also contacts between private American citizens and Russians. That's been happening not just in the last year but for the last 75 years, since time in memorial.
The United States government is not using any of those contacts to pass messages, to promote diplomacy, direct, indirect or otherwise, and any suggestion to the contrary is simply untrue.
Yes?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Jake.
I have two questions. Japanese Prime Minister Kishida with this talk of contaminated water at the (INAUDIBLE).
Yesterday, IAEA Secretary-General Grosse visited South Korea, and he said he will not take the responsibility for this charge of contaminated waters.
What is the United States' position on the IAEA's report on this charge of contaminated water in Fukushima? Then I have a second question.
SULLIVAN: From our perspective, the IAEA secretary-general's report was based on the professional analysis of the international institution, and I'll leave it at that.
I'd also say the ROK government made its own statements and reactions to that, which we thought were constructive.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: South Korea's meeting, nuclear conservative meeting, we heard in Seoul -- do you have any contents of the meeting, who is going to be attending this meeting?
SULLIVAN: I don't have anything to announce today. I will say, though, that I spoke with my South Korean counterpart last evening to discuss preparations for that meeting.
It will be an important meeting. There will be high-level participation by the United States because this is an important issue on which we place priority.
And launching the nuclear consultative group is a specific outcome of the Washington summit between President Yoon and President Biden, an outcome of the historic Washington Declaration. And you'll see in this meeting we are serious about taking this effort forward.
(CROSSTALK)
SULLIVAN: Last question.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jake, five days after cocaine was found in the White House, congressional Republicans seem like they're very close to launching some sort of formal investigation.
I'm curious, from a national security perspective, what was your reaction when the drugs were found? B, was there any risk to security, either to the president, to your staff, anybody that worked near, for this stuff to be so close to where you were?
SULLIVAN: First, I would refer to the Secret Service when it comes to questions of security of the president. I won't speak to that.
Second, I would make a point about the Situation Room because there's been a lot of questionable reporting on this.
The Situation Room is not in use and has not been for months because it is currently under construction. We are using an alternate Situation Room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building.
The only people coming in and out of the Sit Room in this period have been workers who are getting it ready to go. By the way, it is on time and on scheduled to be --
(LAUGHTER)
SULLIVAN: -- to be back on station here in the not-too-distant future.
But, no, there was no issue with the Situation Room relative to this.
Finally, look, we have rigorous drug testing policies at the White House. We have rigorous drug use policies here at the White House. We take those extremely seriously.
So we'll let the investigation unfold. If it involves someone from the White House, the appropriate consequences will ensue.
If it involves some visitor who came in and left it, then that's a different matter that raises a different set of questions that are less relevant to my line of work. So I will leave it at that.
But I do not believe, at present, as things stand here at the podium today, that we are facing some national security threat, ongoing national security threat.
(CROSSTALK)
SULLIVAN: We're facing other national security threats.
(CROSSTALK)
SULLIVAN: Yes, last one.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: After the meeting yesterday, it was said there is good progress toward Sweden joining NATO but there is a gap. How do you describe an agreement on NATO membership?
SULLIVAN: I will make no prediction. I'll say that President Biden had the opportunity to meet with the Swedish prime minister in Washington to express his solidarity with Sweden for its application for membership.
We believe Sweden should be in NATO as soon as possible. We would love to see it happen at Vilnius. It is possible it does. It is possible it doesn't happen until some period after.
[14:40:07]
But we believe it'll happen in the not-too-distant future and that those gaps can be closed, everything can be resolved, that there is fundamentally goodwill for all parties to get this done.
It is a question of time, and I can't predict whether it'll happen next week or the ensuing weeks.
And with that, I said it was my last question.
(CROSSTALK)
SULLIVAN: So thank you, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have just been listening to the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, from the press room at the White House, answering questions on an array of issues.
They specifically talked about what he described as a difficult decision that the White House was weighing for some time, providing cluster munitions to Ukraine.
He said the White House studied the potential for civilian harm, but the facts on the ground led them to this decision because of the extremely high rate of use of artillery in Ukraine.
He said that Ukraine was essentially burning through much of its supply, and the United States needed to provide a bridge as it built its own domestic supply, arguing that it would be intolerable for Russia to gain ground in Ukraine at a potential point of weakness.
He also argued that because Russia has used these cluster munitions in Ukraine, Ukraine would be using it to defend its own territory.
And he made clear that Ukraine provided the United States with written agreement of accountability for using these munitions in safe areas, areas where there are no civilians.
He also said that these areas would require extensive de-mining after the conflict between Russia and Ukraine is over.
Kim Dozier is back with us now.
Kim, you've been watching this press briefing alongside us. What stood out to you from Jake Sullivan?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: That this was a decision they came to with great reluctance. But as Sullivan said, it's a bridging measure, that they simply can't produce enough artillery to keep Ukraine going without pulling some of these stocks out of storage and sending them to the battlefield.
He did say they weren't trying to say that this is relative, that just because Russia is using it, Ukraine should have the right to use it.
But he made the argument that Ukraine is already littered with tens of thousands of cluster bomb drops -- or bomblets as they're called, from Russia's use and, therefore, the country will have to be de-mined anyway. So Ukraine needs them, too.
SANCHEZ: Kim Dozier, we very much appreciate your analysis.
And, quickly, before we go, I wanted to acknowledge that Sullivan confirmed there have been discussions between the White House and the Kremlin over a prisoner swap, a potential prisoner swap for "Wall Street Journalist," Even Gershkovich, on this, the 100th day of his incarceration.
Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're covering a lot of different stories and we will be back in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:47:05]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A chaotic conversation about keeping former President Trump in office after his election loss is now the focus of the special counsel investigation into 2020 election interference schemes.
CNN has exclusively learned that Jack Smith is zeroing in on this infamous Oval Office meeting from December 18th of 2020.
One-time national security adviser, Michael Flynn, and election conspiracy pusher and one-time Trump lawyer, Sidney Powell, were among the outside advisers there who urged Trump to take radical action to remain in power, such as declaring martial law or having the military seize voting machines.
CNN's Paula Reid helped break this story.
Paula, this is a well-documented meeting, but this is something, perhaps no surprise, the special counsel is really interested in.
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They are interested in this. As you said, this is well documented. We heard a lot about this during the January 6th hearings. And it sort of bubbles up again every six months. People renew their focus.
But here, our reporting indicates that, in recent months, prosecutors have been asking specifically about this meeting. We know they asked several witnesses in recent months about this meeting.
And most notably in recent weeks, they talked to Rudy Giuliani about this. He sat for a voluntary interview. He hasn't gone before the grand jury.
But let's remember the role that Rudy Giuliani played in this meeting. This is widely considered to be the most chaotic and crazy meeting of the Trump administration. That's really saying something.
We've learned in our reporting is that, on one side of this meeting, you had Trump's White House counsel, other lawyers saying, look, there was no fraud.
On the other side of this meeting, you had the sort of rogue advisers, Sidney Powell, the Overstock CEO and Mike Flynn, insisting there was fraud, suggesting they should have the military seize voting machines. There was even talk of making Sidney Powell a special counsel. The former president allegedly called Rudy Giuliani to come in and
mediate this. I mean, imagine that. Rudy Giuliani is the voice of reason here.
Incredibly chaotic but a critical moment in this investigation. It appears that prosecutors are looking for more information about this meeting to start to establish or to really finally establish a pattern of lies and efforts to try to overturn the election.
KEILAR: Because this is a meeting where the then-president is watching White House lawyers make Swiss cheese of all of these kinds of cuckoo ideas that these outside advisers have.
But put this, Paula, into a broader context for us, because it seems that the special counsel is looking at a time period from a little before this --
REID: Yes.
KEILAR: -- mid-December until January 6th.
REID: Exactly. What happens in early December, remember, his own attorney general, Bill Barr, says I looked into this and there is no fraud, you should concede.
So he's on notice that his top law enforcement official does not believe there's any fraud.
But he's getting this conflicting advice in the Oval Office. They're looking at not only what the people in that meeting were saying but what was Trump doing after this, right, what was he tweeting?
[14:50:02]
He continued to push this lie about there being election fraud. Was that to fundraise? Was that to pressure states, other officials? That's all part of what the special counsel is looking into.
KEILAR: That's the day he sends out the tweet after this, right, telling people --
REID: Yes.
KEILAR: -- to basically come to Washington, D.C. on the 6th, "It will be wild," is the quote everyone sort of looks back to.
REID: Yes.
KEILAR: It's really interesting.
Paula, thank you for taking us through that.
Jim?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Well, the temperature is coming down slightly on the red-hot labor market. Could it be the Goldilocks temperature the Federal Reserve is looking for? We'll have more on that question coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: One more measure of the U.S. economy is out today. We're learning that 209,000 jobs were created in June. A strong number, slightly less than expected.
The question is, could this be a Goldilocks moment? Does it allow the Fed not to raise interest rates more or much more?
CNN's Matt Egan joins us now.
Matt, everyone is always looking for the Goldilocks moment. You want enough growth, not too hot, in the Feds view, so they don't keep raising rates. Where does this number stand?
[14:55:06]
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, we are still in this weird place where cooling job growth is actually good news. The jobs market has been simply on fire. So much so that Wall Street, the Federal Reserve and even the White House wants it to chill out so it doesn't overheat the economy.
It seems like we got that healthy cooling this month, 209,000 jobs added in June. As you can see on the screen with the chart, job growth is still solid. It's slow bug not falling off the cliff.
The unemployment rate, 3.6 percent. That is miles away from that spike to nearly 15 percent back in 2020. This is historically very low.
So, yes, it does feel like we got the Goldilocks number we were looking for. But the Fed is still likely to raise interest rates later this month. But hopefully, they're closer to the end of this rate- hiking cycle.
SCIUTTO: Remember people used to speak of 6 percent as maximum employment? Here we are a little below 4 percent.
What about labor force participation? This is this other number of folks not measured in unemployment figures because they're not trying to find a job. That seems to be presenting good news here.
EGAN: Yes, absolutely, Jim. That is very good news. We're talking about the supply of workers. And what we've seen is that has started to really improve.
For two big reasons. One, immigration has picked up. And the other big factor is more and more women are coming off the sidelines.
We know that millions of women were pushed out during Covid, but now we see that the labor participation rate for women aged 25 to 54 is at a record high for the third month in a row.
Jim, that is very encouraging news.
SCIUTTO: No question.
Matt Egan, in New York, thanks so much.
Boris?
SANCHEZ: Still to come, Donald Trump back on the campaign trail with a rally today in Iowa. We'll take you live to Council Bluffs for the latest on the 2024 race for the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
