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Prigozhin Met with Putin after Mutiny; Biden Meets with King Charles; Kurt Volker is Interviewed about the Prigozhin Meeting; Historic Flooding in New York; Northeast under Flood Alerts; Iowa Caucuses in January; Molly Ball is Interviewed about the Presidential Race. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 10, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:33]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: From staging revolt to sitting in his office. The Kremlin says Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, the man who led the rebellion in Russia, met with President Putin just days after the mutiny. Why? And where is he now?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, President Biden is in the U.K. meeting with King Charles for the first time since the monarch's spring coronation. It is the first leg of his high stakes trip for the NATO summit as Ukraine is pushing to join the alliance.

BOLDUAN: And wild weather continues along the East Coast. Just look at this. Right now about 10 million people are under flood alerts. Parts of New York set rainfall records.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

This morning, another surprising twist coming out of Russia. Mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin hasn't been seen in public since the attempted mutiny, but, get this, the Kremlin now says the Wagner boss sat down with Russian President Vladimir Putin just days after he tried to overthrow him. The roughly three-hour meeting was held on June 29th. That is according to the Kremlin, five days after Prigozhin's short- lived rebellion.

For weeks, though, Putin and the Kremlin have really been dodging questions about Prigozhin's whereabouts. And now you can add another question to the mix, what is Putin trying to signal now?

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has the very latest for us. He's joining us now.

Fred, what more is Russia saying about this and what is your read on it?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the first and most important read, Kate, is that everybody who's been monitoring reporting about this probably getting whiplash right now trying to find out where Yevgeny Prigozhin is and also what his status is as well. But certainly I think one of the things that we can read into this is that Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Wagner mercenary group are extremely important to Vladimir Putin, extremely important to Russia's war in Ukraine and on the battlefield. And that's probably why that meeting took place. And it only took place about five days after that mutiny happened. Yevgeny Prigozhin was able to go into the Kremlin.

Now, some of the things that we're hearing from that meeting, which are coming from the Kremlin, from Dmitry Peskov, the spokesman for the Kremlin, are quite interesting, where apparently Vladimir Putin came out and gave his assessment of what the Russians call their special military operation, but also all the mutiny itself.

And then there was a little side sentence in what he said. He said, he talked about possible future use of the Wagner group and battlefield deployment. So that could indicate that possibly Wagner is back in the game. Certainly that could be a really interesting development because there's so many things that are unclear.

The Kremlin itself has said that Yevgeny Prigozhin was going to go to Belarus. Then Belarusian Leader Alexander Lukashenko told our own Matthew Chance that he wasn't actually - Prigozhin wasn't actually in Belarus, that he was actually still in St. Petersburg, in Russia. So, it seems as though, for now, it appears as though Yevgeny Prigozhin is still in Russia, but it's unclear how much control he could retain over Wagner if any. And not just Wagner, of course, on the battlefield in Ukraine, but all of its other assets like, for instance, the dealings that he has in Africa and in the Middle East as well, Kate. A huge development potentially.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

And, Fred, the Russian defense ministry also just published a video of a top general seen out in public for the first time since that rebellion. What do you see in this? I mean what more can you tell us about it?

PLEITGEN: Yes, that's Valery Gerasimov. He's the chief of the general staff of the Russian military. He's basically the second in command after the defense minister, after Sergei Shoigu. And that also ties in possibly with Prigozhin having been in the Kremlin and that meeting now being made public. Because one of the things that was asked is -- at that meeting, the Kremlin says that there were 35 commanders at the meeting. Folks asked, well, were there any people from the defense ministry there? And the Kremlin refused to answer that.

One of the things we know is that the heads of Russia's defense ministry, and certainly the chief of the generals staff, has been under fire. And one of the reasons why Yevgeny Prigozhin said that he was marching on Moscow was to get at the defense minister and the chief of staff. So, whether or not right now the Russians are trying to strengthen the position of the chief of staff is completely unclear, obviously. But it is quite significant that we have seen him now for the first time since that mutiny took place, Kate.

[09:05:02]

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Good to see you, Fred. Thanks for putting it all together for us.

Let's see what happens next in this soap opera. Thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: That is a good way to put it, Kate.

All right, happening now, President Biden is at Windsor Castle for a face to face meeting with King Charles. It's the first time the president and the king have met in person since Charles ascended the throne. The stop is the first in a three-nation tour of Europe that will include a high stakes summit with NATO leaders in Lithuania.

CNN's Max Foster is joining us now from Windsor, England.

Max, this is mostly a ceremonial meeting, but what is it that they're discussing?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting because they were purely ceremonial in Queen Elizabeth's day. We would never find out any details of what happened within the castle after the red carpet moment outside in the Quadrangle (ph). But we are being told this time.

There is a meeting inside of leading U.S. and U.K. bankers meeting to discuss how to help alleviate the impacts of climate change in the developing world. So, this is what Charles likes to do. He likes to bring together, with his convening power, senior figures on particular issues. And on this issue it is, of course, climate change. So, we're finding out that they're having a discussion about climate change inside. And I think it's going pretty well, Sara, because they're running late. These are two men that clearly get on. But there is a real tension at the moment in the U.S., U.K. relationship, if I can call it that. There -- here we call it the special relationship because the U.S. is such a key ally for the United Kingdom.

That tension really comes from Ukraine and how the two countries have slightly different views on the way the U.S. is handling it. Cluster bombs is one issue. The U.K. doesn't support the U.S. sending cluster bombs to Ukraine. So that's really setting up the scene going on to the NATO summit.

But, at the moment, they're discussing an issue which both men really care about, which is climate change. And it's all about celebrating the long-term relationship between the U.S. and U.K., trying to solidify it.

SIDNER: Yes, it's interesting to see how the crown is going to change a bit, of course, with a king, something we haven't seen in many decades.

Thank you so much, Max Foster. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Sara. So, let's talk about all of this, put it together.

Joining us right now is Kurt Volker, the former U.S. ambassador to NATO and former U.S. special representative for Ukraine negotiations.

Ambassador, it's good to see you again. Thank you so much for coming in.

Let's talk first about what we were -- I was just discussing with Fred Pleitgen coming out of Russia. Now, the Kremlin saying that Prigozhin met with Putin for hours and it was just five days after the attempted mutiny. I mean what do you think this means? A sign of weakness or a sign of strength for -- that we're hearing this from the Kremlin?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, I think what it shows is that Putin actually was very concerned that he was in a much weaker position than he realized. And the fact that Prigozhin could launch a rebellion like that, get as far as he did, has actually, I think, shook Putin a little bit. And this is why I think he wanted to try to re-establish control, get Prigozhin back on side, and then maybe see what he has to do to retain that support from the power sources in Russia, the military, the intelligence services, to try to keep it together.

BOLDUAN: And also -- and Fred highlighted something that's important. In that statement it was talking - they -- in the statement coming out from the Kremlin they talked about the potential of future use of the Wagner group, because I was thinking back to our conversation, I think it was last week, though it feels like a million years ago at this point, when you and I were talking about how this was unfolding, Ambassador. And like everyone else, you were saying -- you were kind of questioning if Putin really could survive it if he didn't take Prigozhin on directly.

So, this seems like such a surprising turn of events that then five days later, you know, the -- he has -- he's sitting down with Prigozhin. Do you think it's the pressures from within Russia more pushing Putin to do this or external pressures outside of Russia, the need for the Wagner group and Ukraine and far beyond?

VOLKER: Well, I think it's a combination. I think that -- first off, I'm still surprised to hear about this meeting.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

VOLKER: And I still think that Prigozhin is somewhere where we don't know where he is. I think he's being very careful. And I still wouldn't put it past Putin to try to go after him.

That being said, I think that what we have learned over the course of the past several months is that the Wagner group is the most effective military force that the Russians have. And given the way the war is going in Ukraine, he probably felt he needed to listen to them and figure out how he could use them if he's going to salvage his effort in Ukraine. BOLDUAN: Yes, that's a great point. You know, where they are today

might not - is definitely not the final destination of where that relationship could end up. It's a very important piece of perspective on that.

VOLKER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about President Biden in the U.K. now. Of course he's headed to Lithuania for the NATO summit. He spoke with Fareed Zakaria ahead of this trip, and I want to play for everyone and also for you once again what Biden said about Ukraine and potential NATO membership.

Let's listen.

[09:10:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO family now at this moment in the middle of a war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Biden says it's not the right time when Ukraine is in the middle of a war. You see it quite differently. You signed on to a letter with almost 50 other foreign policy experts with regard to this. What do you say about this?

VOLKER: Yes. Well, I think if you listen to what Biden said carefully, he emphasized the word now. And there I think everyone agrees that you don't bring Ukraine into NATO today when the war is going on. That would commit the U.S. and other forces to begin fighting Russia as well. And we don't want to turn Russia's war against Ukraine into a NATO war against Russia.

But we do need to send a very clear signal to Vladimir Putin that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. His effort to extinguish Ukraine and to disrupt European security is going to fail, and that we are serious about protecting security in Europe in the future. And the only way to do that is by bringing Ukraine into NATO. So, we need to send a very strong signal out of the Vilnius summit that this is where this train is going.

BOLDUAN: I wanted to ask you, because an invitation to NATO membership doesn't mean automatic membership. We've seen the long road many countries have taken on that. What then is the hesitancy, if you sense it is hesitancy in Biden's approach to this heading into this NATO summit, what is it?

VOLKER: Yes. I think it is, as I said, I think it is a desire to make it clear to everybody that this is not NATO going to war against Russia. This is Russia fighting Ukraine and everyone is trying to help Ukraine survive and defend itself and we don't want to confuse that messaging. But that being said, I think we have to start thinking about the long-term. NATO's job, its only real job, is the security and defense of its members. And we've seen that with Ukraine outside and a few other countries outside, these gray zones that are there in Europe, that has been an invitation to violence in Europe. It's been an invitation by Putin to attack Georgia, to attack Ukraine.

So, in the future, we're actually going to have to bring countries like Ukraine in if we want to deter future war in Europe. That's the long-term perspective.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I want to give you a second to clear your throat, because you have that catch in your throat that I get sometimes that makes it impossible for me to continue. So, please tell me if we need to cut this short.

Just - I have one final question for you, Ambassador.

Zelenskyy seemed -- I guess the way I'd put it is less than certain that he was going to then head to the summit given some of the conversation leading into it, saying that he doesn't want to go there just for fun, he wants concrete steps, like you're talking about, concrete steps coming out of it.

VOLKER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Do you think he should go still? Do you think he should not go? I mean what do you think that means in this context?

VOLKER: Well, I think it would be a mistake for Zelenskyy not to go.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

VOLKER: No matter what the language of the summit is about Ukraine's NATO membership, it is these countries that are supporting Ukraine's security and defense needs right now. And the only place Ukraine goes in the future is as part of the European Union and part of NATO. So, this is the family now. He should show up.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

It's good to see you, Ambassador. Thank you so much for coming in.

Sara.

VOLKER: Thank you.

SIDNER: All right, switching gears, back here in the U.S. this morning, at least one person is dead as severe storms are battering parts of New York and heavy rain and flash flooding is occurring. Right now nearly 10 million people are under flood alerts in the northeast. The National Weather Service says New York could see one to two inches of rain per hour. In West Point, New York, a one in a 1,000 year rainfall event where more than seven and a half inches of rain fell in just six hours. Some drivers were forced to swim away from their cars as floodwaters overwhelmed them. You see there on the roadway. Right now, New York Governor Kathy Hochul is deploying state police

and swift water rescue teams as the state is bracing for even more flooding.

CNN correspondent Polo Sandoval is in Rockland County, New York.

Polo, what have you been seeing this morning? I see you have a bit of a backup behind you there.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, to that point, Sara, now that the sun is out, the story is now shifting at least partially to one of some major travel trouble, just a short drive north of New York City, and we'll get to that in just a few moments.

But first, some of the amazing and just shocking images from overnight showing some of those water rescues as authorities were deploying through the evening into the last - into last night as well, carrying out some of those water rescues.

I've been in touch with authorities in neighboring Orange County who tells me that last night really amounted to chaos as authorities were out there carrying out some of those rescues, some washed out roadways as well.

[09:15:06]

In the town of Highlands, it was hard hit, home to about 12,000 residents, authorities there confirming for us that one individual, a young woman who was trying to evacuate her home with her pet, was -- lost her footing in the floodwaters and then sadly carried away into a ravine. She is the one casualty, according to officials, right now.

Orange County officials adding that they seem to have everybody else accounted for, so they don't expect any - any further rescues. But, meanwhile, to what you mentioned earlier, this is a result here on the Palisades Parkway. That roadblock that you see off in the distance, that's detouring some of those drivers away from the - from the interstate that basically cuts through some of those floodwaters right now. So that is really the ultimate impact for many, many people as still some 25 million individuals north of New York state are still under some form of flood alert with the potential for excessive rains into tomorrow.

Sara.

SIDNER: Polo Sandoval, thank you for all your reporting.

Wow, what an incredible amount of rain happening just like that.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's -- when it happens in such a short amount of time, obviously this is what we get.

I mean, and that record-setting rainfall, it brought more than eight inches to parts of New York. The threat, not over yet.

CNN's Derek Van Dam tracking the forecast for us. He's joining us now. Derek, how much rain -- how much more rain is expected in these areas

today?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS CERTIFIED METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Kate, we're really focusing our attention on Vermont now where rainfall rates of one and a half inches per hour could allow for that rain gauge to surpass a half a foot here in the coming hours. And we've already seen roadways turned into rivers. And the National Weather Service has a slogan, turn around, don't drown, and they mean it because six inches of rain can literally stall a vehicle, 12 inches of water along a roadway can actually float many vehicles, 24 inches of fast-moving water can submerge and float and wash away a full-sized SUV.

Now, I want to share some of the latest information we're getting from the Weather Prediction Center. The high risk, that is a rare level four of four from the Weather Prediction Center has now been extended further south to include all of south central Vermont. And, look at this, we have flash flood warnings encompassing much of the state. In fact, some of those actually tagged with a flash flood emergency in and around the Ludlow region.

We have a stationary band of rainfall moving across the area. So it's training over the same regions, allowing for those inch to an inch and a half rainfall totals that we've been experiencing. So the potential here for a half a foot of additional rainfall still exists as this kind of convergence of moisture starts to really move into northern New England.

Now, we had impressive rainfall totals across eastern Pennsylvania and into southern New York, across the Hudson Valley. Six to 10 inches of rain where that one in 1,000 year event actually took place. Just incredible amount of precipitation for West Point, New York. The likelihood of this occurring in any particular year, only 0.1 percent. Just incredible to show you how unlikely an event like this actually is.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, the concern really in Vermont now as you were showing almost the entire state covered in red in that map you were showing.

VAN DAM: Right.

BOLDUAN: Got to keep a very close eye on that one today.

VAN DAM: Right.

BOLDUAN: Derek, thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Republican presidential candidates are flocking to Iowa to try to win over voters ahead of the state's caucuses in January, but history shows GOP contenders may have better odds in New Hampshire. Also, a missing 14-year-old girl in California was found in the

barracks of a military base. Now a Marine is in custody and he's being questioned.

And, we'll get a live report from China, where a knife attack outside a kindergarten has left six people dead, including children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:22:54]

BOLDUAN: This morning, the 2024 Republican nominating calendar is coming into a bit of clearer focus. Iowa Republicans have voted to hold their first in the nation caucuses on January 15th. That's also Martin Luther King Jr. Day. No date yet for New Hampshire's Republican primary, but that will likely take place before the end of January.

Let's talk about what this all means and so much more. Harry Enten is here with me now.

So, Harry, it's obviously a big honor for Iowa and New Hampshire, as we always discuss -

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: To be the first in the -- first in the primary calendar. But, when you look at these two states, there's a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to their record and choosing the eventual nominee.

ENTEN: Yes, that's right. You know, if we were looking at the Democratic side, I might say, hey, Iowa is the better -- gives you the better idea who's going to be the nominee. But if you look at the Republican side, the fact is New Hampshire has a far better track record of picking who the eventual nominee would be since 1980. So, you know, primaries in which there is no incumbent running, you can see here, look, the Iowa caucuses have only picked the eventual nominee two of seven times. That was in 1996 and 2000. The New Hampshire primary, five of seven times.

Remember back in 2016, Donald Trump, of course, lost in Iowa, but then was able to regain his hold on the Republican nomination by winning in New Hampshire. So, to me, looking at the Republican side, New Hampshire gives you a better idea than Iowa does.

BOLDUAN: You wanted to also look at this year from two different angles, ideology and demographics in terms of how the front-runner is doing in the Republican side and Donald Trump, again, looking amongst the group. When it comes to ideology, why do you think Trump is weaker in New Hampshire than Iowa this year?

ENTEN: It's a very simple answer. And it comes down to, get this, it comes down to what we see is that the groups that Trump does best amongst, look at that, very conservative, they are far bigger portion of the Republican electorate in Iowa than they are in New Hampshire. Trump gets weaker as you go more toward the middle of the Republican electorate. He only leads that group by 14 points over Ron DeSantis. Moderates are a big portion of the electorate in New Hampshire. They are a far smaller portion in Iowa.

[09:25;01]

So, the fact is, at least ideologically speaking, Trump does better amongst the groups that are a bigger portion of the Iowa electorate than they are of the New Hampshire electorate.

BOLDUAN: I see that one. But what about demographics? You think Trump is still, when it comes to demographics, weaker in New Hampshire than Iowa too?

ENTEN: Yes, think about it, Trump's base in the Republican primary, right, is amongst those voters who are not as well off economically speaking.

BOLDUAN: OK.

ENTEN: So, if we look at that vote, what we see is that Trump has a much larger lead among those who live in a household that has less than $100,000. Look at that, Trump leads by 27 points. Look at $100,000 or more, Trump only leads by about 3 points.

New Hampshire is a wealthier state than Iowa is. The Republican electorate in New Hampshire is again a - is wealthier than the Republican electorate is in Iowa. So, the fact is, whether you look at ideology, whether you look at demographics like income, those groups that Trump does best amongst are more plentiful in Iowa than they are in New Hampshire. So if I'm one of Trump's Republican rivals, I think I have a better chance of breaking through in New Hampshire than perhaps in Iowa, despite the fact that all those Trump rivals are going to Iowa.

BOLDUAN: That's what I was going to say, which then might call into question some of the - some of the strategy to this point. But people make a big play in Iowa because they think that --

ENTEN: It's the first.

BOLDUAN: It's the first, and that's where you can gain momentum. Let us see.

It's good to see you, Harry.

ENTEN: Nice to see you.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right, let's talk more about this and the latest on the campaign trail. Here with us now, national political correspondent for "Time" magazine. Molly Ball.

Molly, thank you for being here.

Can we just quickly talk about the fact that this presidential caucus in Iowa is happening a bit earlier than it normally does. Does that even matter? MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": Probably not.

You know, we've seen this calendar go through this kind of churn. Every cycle there's a bit of a dance between the early states.

But, you know, I think if you zoom back on what Harry is talking about in the last few cycles, and the lack of sort of a predictive power, particularly for Iowa, really on both sides, I think we've seen a diminishment of the early states overall as this primary becomes more and more nationalized. You know, so many voters these days, especially the types of highly engaged voters who vote in presidential primaries, are tuned into the national news. They're watching CNN. They're watching national cable news. They're getting their news from national sources. And so there aren't necessarily paying as much attention to, you know, which candidate went to the pizza ranch in my town or which candidate, you know, appeals to voters like me on local issues specifically. I think we're just seeing a declining influence of all the early states.

SIDNER: Yes, it's really interesting.

I want to talk about one of the candidates on the trail. Ron DeSantis is really pushing back hard against this notion that he is way behind Trump. I want to let you listen to what he said as one of the reasons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL) AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maria, these are narratives. The media does not want me to be the nominee. I think that's very, very clear. Why? Because they know I'll beat Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: The media doesn't want him to win because we know he'll beat Biden is the words that he used. Does that make any sense to you being that one of the heads of his super PAC is the one who said, we are way behind in this race?

BALL: That's the problem for DeSantis is it's always easy to blame the media for a story you don't like. But in this case, it's backed up by a lot of data. You know, I mean he maybe could have said this in the first couple of weeks of his candidacy when we didn't have a robust array of polls showing just how far behind he is both nationally and in those early states. But at this point, it's a very strongly evidence-backed claim, and, as you mentioned, you know, some of his own allies have noted it. He simply is pretty far behind Trump at this point. Now, that doesn't mean he can't make it up. That doesn't mean he's dead in the water.

And, you know, I think in a lot of significant ways this remains a two-man race. He remains the only candidate in strong position to take down Trump. None of the other candidates who are not named Trump have come this close. But he hasn't built on his lead. He hasn't broken out. He hasn't managed to have a sort of viral moment that I think would stick in people's minds and really show them why he ought to be considered in that top tier. And so you can understand the frustration but, you know, I just don't

think it's going to get far blaming the media when we have so much evidence to support this fact.

SIDNER: I do want to talk about the point that you made, this is sort of a two-man race right now had you look at the numbers and the polling. But they do, more Trump than DeSantis, trade barbs with each other. Does that give any chance to a person like a Nikki Haley or a Tim Scott to make a move that would help them since these two are kind of going at it?

BALL: Well, that's the perpetual fantasy of those candidates in the bottom tier, right, is that the two front-runners end up destroying each other and that creates an opening. But so far that's only been a theory.

[09:30:00]

We haven't seen it happen. And the reason it hasn't happened is that someone would have to lay a finger on Trump first. And, you know, we've been waiting eight years, I think.