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Biden Delivers Sweeping Speech On Global Unity; Wray On Classified Docs Case: "Ballrooms, Bathrooms And Bedrooms Are Not SCIFs"; Director Wray Defends FBI Amid GOP Attacks; Tuberville: Senate Should Vote On Rule For Abortion Travel. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 12, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:05]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: "We will not waver." President Biden reaffirming support for Ukraine as NATO wraps up its critical summit and while the Ukrainian president did not get a timeline for his country's membership to NATO, President Zelenskyy did get long-term commitment of military support.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Facing his Republican critics and a flurry of GOP accusations the head of the FBI appointed by Donald Trump testifies on the Hill amid a political firestorm there.

We are following these developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Right now, President Biden is on his way to Helsinki, Finland to close out a European trip that has had major global implications. Earlier today he had a lengthy one-on-one meeting with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And a short time ago he wrapped up the NATO Summit with a sweeping speech that touted an alliance that is stronger than ever and reassured Ukraine that its fate is tied to NATO.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is in Vilnius, Lithuania for us following all of these developments, how is this speech received, Natasha?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Brianna. I think this will be pretty well received by the Ukrainians. Look, the overarching theme of it was unity and support for Ukraine for the long haul. He said that he is with Ukraine and the U.S. is with Ukraine, the NATO is for as long as it takes.

And that is something that, of course, the Ukrainians are going to welcome President Zelenskyy appeared to soften his tone today following many meetings with NATO leaders. And I think that President Biden he was not looking to rehash the events of the day when it comes to NATO's - Ukraine's membership in NATO. But he did reaffirm that the U.S. is going to be with Ukraine for the long term here.

And so one of the things that he really drove home in this speech as well is just how much Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine has backfired. Because as we saw, NATO now has 31 members, soon to be 32, with Sweden joining. NATO's border with Russia has expanded dramatically. Something, obviously, that Putin did not want.

And the message here that President Biden reiterated is that this just shows how important the NATO alliance is to the world. Its open door policy, the fact that countries want to join NATO because of the threat that Russia continues to pose globally.

And so this will come as a welcome statement for the Ukrainians. But there was one moment in that speech that was really interesting. And that's when Biden kind of slipped up. And he did say there are 33 members of the NATO Alliance at this point, obviously, Ukraine would love that.

Ukraine has been calling for it to become the 33rd member of the alliance, but there are only 31 at this point, soon to be 32 with Sweden. But the overarching message of Biden's speech in his remarks today in Vilnius is this message of freedom versus authoritarianism, democracy versus authoritarianism and the fact that freedom he believes is going to prevail.

It was a largely optimistic speech and it was set against the backdrop of, of course, Lithuania, which was under Soviet occupation for so long, something that President Biden said that the United States and never recognized.

So a very overarching message that was largely optimistic and positive in tone, but also warning the world that, of course, it's fragile. And this is not necessarily something that they can take for granted. Here's just a bit of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Unfortunately, Russia has shown thus far no interest in the diplomatic outcome. Putin still wrongly believes that he can outlast Ukraine. He can't believe it's their land, their country and their future. And even after all this time, Putin still doubts our staying power.

[15:05:06]

He's still making a bad bet that the conviction and the unity among the United States and our allies and partners will break down. He still doesn't understand that our commitment, our values, our freedom is something he could never, never ever, ever walk away from. That's who we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So while there's some - there were some disagreements among some NATO allies about just when and how Ukraine should become a member of the alliance, broadly, they are still united. And that is the message that President Biden sought to drive home today, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, big theme today.

Natasha Bertrand live for us from Vilnius. Thank you.

I want to bring in CNN's Kylie Atwood to talk a little bit more about what we saw today. It's just - it's interesting because you did see Vladimir Zelenskyy on one hand, expressing appreciation for everything that the West has done, but on the other hand, there is this impatience, right, his people are dying as they fight. And, of course, the U.S. and Western allies aren't giving all of these arms to Ukraine just for charity.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, that's right. And I think, at one point, he said we need NATO just as much as NATO needs us. NATO needs a strong Ukraine to essentially keep Russia from coming further into Europe, so that is a significant message from him. But we did see a very much appreciative tone from him today and that was that was different yesterday. I mean, he was going into negotiations.

And when you go into negotiations, you got to start with everything you want and he was pushing incredibly hard to get something more definitive and actual invite into NATO. He didn't get that.

But what he did get, I think, it's fair to say that Ukraine is closer to joining NATO after this summit than they were before it. And the reason for that is because of these long-term security guarantees that he's getting from these individual countries that are going to span over a long time here. And so reversing that relationship between NATO and Ukraine doesn't seem to be something that any country is interested in doing.

KEILAR: He wants these guarantees of a timeline, that was what he went in ...

ATWOOD: Yes.

KEILAR: ... wanting and not getting. But there's also this argument of it's hard to give a timeline. Then you set up Russia to say, well, fine, we're going to stick it out. And, of course, we heard from the White House today very clearly, they don't want to commit to something where immediately if Ukraine is entering NATO, now you have to have troops on the ground from the U.S. and their allies.

ATWOOD: Exactly right. And I think it's hard to give a timeline because we don't know the timeline for the war.

KEILAR: That's right.

ATWOOD: And so that is the fundamental problem here. There's also, of course, other steps that Ukraine has to take. Now, the Ukrainians don't like talking about those very much in public. But we heard from President Biden, you're talking about the fact that Ukraine still needs to take steps on democracy at home, and other things such as corruption in their government.

So there's still work to be done. I think they're very far ahead, though, when it comes to the military relationship with NATO. And particularly after these long-term security guarantees that we're seeing come from the G7, because of what those guarantees include. They include air defense, artillery, long range weapons, armored vehicles and intelligence sharing.

So when you have so much support in terms of military going into Ukraine, it's pretty assured that this isn't going to be reversed. And I also think it gives credibility to what President Biden said in saying at his final speech there that the NATO alliance isn't going to be backing away from Ukraine anytime soon. The fact that they're stepping up with more support is credibility to those words.

KEILAR: Yes. It was a really interesting summit.

ATWOOD: Yes.

KEILAR: And sometimes these things are not super interesting. They're just kind of like some maintenance work. But this I thought was (inaudible) ...

ATWOOD: There's drama going into it.

KEILAR: There was some drama for sure.

ATWOOD: Yes.

KEILAR: Kylie Atwood, thank you so much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: For more, we're joined now by former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Steven Pifer.

Ambassador, thanks for taking the time.

STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Happy to be here.

SCIUTTO: Pifer - I said Pifer, my apologies. You're now an affiliate at Stanford Center for International Security Cooperation.

First, as a practical matter, even Zelenskyy knew going to Vilnius, he was not going to get membership in NATO. Do you look at the package that was offered to him, this pathway as it were going forward, as a substantial step forward?

PIFER: Yes, I think Zelenskyy will go back to Kyiv with three things. One is commitments from the Germans for more Leopard tanks, from France for cruise missiles, so he's going back with more weapons.

Second, he has this commitment from the G7 to provide military support, not just during the fight with Russia, but after that fight when it's settled to help Ukraine have a robust modern military that could deter a future Russian attack.

[15:10:00]

The third is a little bit less tangible. But I think you've seen a mood shift reflected in Vilnius is that NATO allies now see Ukraine's membership as all but inevitable and that's a big change.

SCIUTTO: That's an enormous change, because Russia - Vladimir Putin does not view Ukraine, as you know, as an independent state. He views it as part of Russia, even if he loses in this invasion, that's something that he's not going to give up. And that would then put NATO allies on the hook to defend Ukraine, not just by providing weapons, but to join the war if he were to attack again, that's a remarkable potentiality.

PIFER: That's true, but I mean, for years going back to say the Bucharest summit in 2008 where allies said Ukraine will be a member in a not very convincing way. But I think there has been over the past 12 to 15 years, on the part of many NATO allies to give some deference to Russian concern about Ukraine and NATO that didn't stop this massive invasion that we saw ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PIFER: ... beginning 16 months ago. And I think Russia has now forfeited any legitimate claim to that kind of deference. And it just - you get the sense from looking at the way NATO leaders are talking about this, it's just a matter of time.

SCIUTTO: We should note just as we've been speaking, Ambassador, and there are the pictures there. Of course, one landing in Helsinki, Finland. The reason the President is going there is because Finland, the newest member of NATO, fully ratified.

I was in the Baltic Sea recently on a NATO Task Force mission. And they make the point that Finland brings to this alliance a relatively big, highly skilled military, but also it more than doubles the frontier between NATO and Russia. What's the significance of that now you have Sweden joining as well?

PIFER: Well, first of all, there's a big geopolitical change now with Finland in and Sweden in the way - expect in a matter of months. The Baltic Sea basically becomes a NATO Lake.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PIFER: This is a real disaster for Russian security and it was caused by the Russian decision to invade Ukraine. So Finland and Sweden, two countries, long traditions of neutrality concluded after February of 2022 that their security was best served within NATO.

And although you now double that border between NATO and Finland, Finland, as you said, they bring a huge reserve force, probably the third largest artillery stock in Europe. They have significant capabilities. They will be contributors to NATO security.

SCIUTTO: Finally, before we go, how does Putin react to this. He sees NATO unifying again, NATO adding another member that that was an express goal of his was to weaken NATO not see it strengthen. Does he look at this as a greater threat? How does he respond?

PIFER: Well, I think and based in Moscow, they understand NATO is not about invading Russia. But the changes that you have seen - I mean, go back and look at the changes in the last - well, really since 2014 when Russia illegally seized Crimea. Ukraine or NATO has basically been taking steps to rearm because there

is a concern about Russian behavior. Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin can change NATO's approach if they begin to show that they're prepared to live in peace with their neighbors, and in particular abandoned this imperialist effort to try to re-conquer part of Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: That would be quite a change. Ambassador Pifer, thanks so much for joining us.

PIFER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Brianna?

KEILAR: Ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, we are following a contentious hearing on Capitol Hill as lawmakers grill FBI Director Christopher Wray.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): People trusted the FBI more when J. Edgar Hoover was running the place than when you are.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: In your home state of Florida, the number of people applying to come work for us and devote their lives working for us is over - up over 100 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Highlights of this testy hearing ahead and why Wray says an entirely new department had to be created within the bureau after the Mar-A-Lago's search.

Plus, today Alabama senator, Tommy Tuberville is further explaining his comments where he failed to denounce white nationalists as racists. Is he changing though his tune about his hold on military nominees as well? And scientists say unprecedented high temperatures off the coast of Florida are threatening one of the most severe coral bleaching events that the state has ever seen. We'll talk about the impacts that they're warning about they could be major.

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[15:18:44]

KEILAR: The head of the FBI now in his fifth hour of questioning on Capitol Hill and House Republicans have been grilling Christopher Wray all along the way on claims that his agency has been targeting conservatives. They've gone after the FBI's handling of threats to school boards, its handling of a leaked FBI memo relating traditional Catholics to domestic extremists and claims that FBI whistleblowers have been retaliated against.

A number of Democrats have used their time to focus on former President Trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents. Here's a bit of this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Director Wray, a ballroom, a bathroom, a bedroom, are those appropriate places to store classified confidential information?

WRAY: Well, again, I don't want to be commenting on the pending case, but I will say that there are specific rules about where to store classified information and that those need to be stored in a SCIF, a secure compartmentalized information facility. And in my experience, ballrooms, bathrooms and bedrooms are not SCIFs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining me now is Joshua Skule, former FBI Executive Assistant Director for Intelligence. He's also the President of Bow Wave LLC.

[15:20:03]

Josh, how do you think this hearing has gone so far? Obviously, it has been full of fireworks.

JOSHUA SKULE, FORMER FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INTELLIGENCE: Good afternoon, Brianna. I don't think that the Director anticipated anything but this hearing. From what I've seen, the Republicans had brought up some serious concerns about the FBI's handling of a wide range of investigations. And the Democrats have also brought up some issues such as FISA that they need to reform within the FBI and have gone about doing that. And I don't think anything about this hearing surprise the Director.

KEILAR: Obviously, Congress has a very important oversight role of the FBI. Historically, we know that and we know that there's a reason for that. But we've also seen some questionable moments. You have Congressman Thomas Massie, who has raised some questions about the January 6th pipe bomber at the DNC. He seemed to insinuate that it was an inside job.

And what we've seen, Josh, repeatedly is Republicans raising theories about investigations that there's no way the Director can talk about in a public unclassified setting. With that said, there are going to be people who look at this and say, why isn't he answering these questions. Do you think that there's damage done from these moments?

SKULE: Well, I think using the FBI as a politically charged element is dangerous for the country. What I can say in my over 20 years experience in the FBI, investigating violent crimes, gangs, political corruption, counterterrorism matters, and then culminating my career as the chief of intelligence, that I personally have never seen political bias enter into an investigation.

I've reviewed thousands of investigations and been briefed on thousands more and never has political bias entered into that.

KEILAR: Of course, that is something that you've heard Republicans like Matt Gaetz disagree with, right? They're not going to take that opinion at face value. He has actually claimed that the FBI has - it's very unpopular, that it has the lowest level of trust.

But what we also see are some efforts on the part of mainly Republicans to actively lower trust in the FBI. And I wonder what your concerns are about that, and what the effect of that is going to be moving forward on investigations and on this process.

SKULE: So I think we have to step back and look at the breadth of investigative responsibility for the FBI, gangs, violent crimes, counterintelligence, counterterrorism, cyber crimes, white collar crimes, it is a massive responsibility.

Just this year alone, already there has been 6,000 violent felons taken off the screen. Over 3,000 guns recovered, 91 gangs dismantled. And then just today in the previous hour reporting by your network, talking about a cyber breach to the government.

All of this involves the FBI. So any threat to this dismantling the FBI or defunding would limit that ability for the FBI to go forward with these serious threats.

KEILAR: Josh, great to have you this is quite the hearing that we are watching on Capitol Hill with the FBI Director, Christopher Wray, today. Thanks so much.

SKULE: Thank you.

KEILAR: Jim?

SCIUTTO: The pressure, including Republican pressure, is mounting on Republican senator, Tommy Tuberville, to drop his block of more than 250 military promotions and nominations and counting. The hold is to protest the Defense Department policy that pays for travel if a service member seeks an abortion out of state because it's banned in that state or restricted in other ways. Tuberville said today the Senate should vote on the rule.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): The solution is take the policy, go back to where it was and then send us a bill and let everyone vote on it.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mm-hm.

TUBERVILLE: I mean, it's that simple, but this is not a one way street here. There's two sides to this, so let's work this out. Let's let the American people, their representatives vote on what they're trying to do with this bill, that they changed with a memo.

RAJU: Is there any middle ground between your position and like ...

TUBERVILLE: Uh-uh, no middle ground. I mean, the middle ground is move it back and let's vote on it then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN Congressional Correspondent, Lauren Fox, is on Capitol Hill.

Lauren, he's getting pushback from the Pentagon. He's getting pushback from military families here, the importance of promotions for their ongoing careers, family life, et cetera, are key. But now it seems getting some pushback as well from Republican leadership. What exactly is that and is it moving him?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, so far it has not moved him, Jim. In fact, Mitch McConnell, who's the Republican leader in the Senate, he said several weeks ago that he didn't agree with the tactic.

[15:25:02]

But behind the scenes, Tuberville says, he's not feeling any immediate pressure from either his leadership or his fellow members, despite the fact they guess there are a number of Republicans who are publicly saying that they do not agree with the strategy that Tuberville is pursuing, despite the fact that they do agree with his underlying position that the Pentagon came up with this policy unilaterally, that if this is the kind of policy that they want to enact that it really should go through Congress, that the Senate should have a vote on it.

But they do not believe that the U.S. Military and nominees in promotion should be held captive. In the meantime, in fact, here's what Republican senator, Thom Tillis, said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think the blanket hold is problematic, but make no mistake, I'm against the same policy that Sen. Tuberville is. You're talking about hundreds and overtime thousands of nominations and I'm sure many of them actually share Sen. Tuberville's view on the policy.

But when we - when you do these blanket holds, you're always going to have examples and I think in this case, an unacceptable number of examples over time if it continues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And you see the distinction there were a lot of Republicans say we support the policy ends that he's trying to achieve, but we really don't support the means at which he's going about it. That was echoed again by Sen. John Thune yesterday to me saying at some point you have to make a decision, are you going to achieve your ultimate goal and, right now, it doesn't look like Tommy Tuberville is going to get the vote that he wants on the floor in part because Senate Democrats don't have the 60 votes to enshrine the policy that Pentagon put in place into law, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yeah. And Tuberville doesn't seem moved at least as of yet.

Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, President Biden's top economic adviser says the U.S. economy is defying expectations and the odds of a so called "soft landing" have gone up. We're going to take a look at these new inflation numbers that show prices are going down.

And nearly 70 percent of the U.S. population is in the path of a dangerous heatwave. More than 215 million people will be seeing temperatures higher than 90 degrees over the next week. How that is a threat to human life and also the power grid, next.

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