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U.S. Cluster Munitions Arrive In Ukraine; Senator Tuberville And Defense Secretary Have Now Spoken; Actors Agree To Strike After Negotiations Fail. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 13, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:20]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: U.S.-made cluster munitions are now in the hands of the Ukrainian military ready for use in its counteroffensive against Russia. We're going to tell you why a top Ukrainian general tells CNN it will "radically changed the battlefield." And where Ukrainian forces say they will not use these weapons.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And access to birth control could soon be a lot easier for millions of American women. The FDA approved the first over the counter pill. We're going to tell you when you could start seeing them on store shelves. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: A senior Ukrainian general tells CNN his forces have received the U.S. made cluster munitions that can, in his words, "radically changed the battlefield there." His forces have yet to deploy them against the Russians. The arrival of those weapons has not previously been reported.

You can see here a video from last year in Kharkiv. This is what it looks like when a Russian cluster munition exploded there. You see the initial explosion and a number of those smaller bombs falling around the area. That's what they're designed to do. They're designed specifically to kill people.

CNN's Oren Liebermann, he's at the Pentagon. He has been following this story.

Has the Defense Department confirmed the arrival of these munitions in Ukraine now? Does it have any sense of when and how Ukraine plans to use them?

LIEBERMANN: Jim, Lt. Gen. D. A. Sims who's the Director of Operations here at the Joint Staff confirmed just a few moments ago on a press briefing that U.S. cluster munitions have arrived in Ukraine. So that corroborates what our colleague, Alex Marquardt, heard from Ukrainian general, which is that they have arrived in the country. But Sims wouldn't say anything about whether or not they has - have been used yet. Generally, the U.S. will leave it to the Ukrainians to talk about how when and where they choose to employ the weapons that have been provided. Sims also made the point that a third country has provided cluster munitions to Ukraine in the past. So the Ukrainians have used at least the other countries cluster munitions as the U.S. ones begin to flow in and it's not too much of a surprise that they arrived only days after they were announced, because at least to this point, cluster munitions are essentially an untapped stock of ammunition that the U.S. hasn't given yet.

So that was ready to go and shortly after it was announced, the U.S. was able to essentially wrap that up and get it to Ukraine as quickly as possible. In terms of how and where these are used, Ukraine committed to the U.S. that it wouldn't be used against civilian targets. It would be used in the ongoing counteroffensive.

And you saw from the video you showed at the top there how these are used. They can essentially saturate a small area or medium-sized area with these little bomblets, these sub munitions that can hit over a bit of an area and you can see why they'd be very effective targeting personnel, targeting Russian lines there. And that's how the Ukrainians have committed to using them.

Jim, one more point that's worth pointing out here. One of the other issues that the U.S. faced was what is the dud rate, what percentage of the bomblets or smaller munitions don't explode. According to the U.S. in the case of Russian cluster munitions, which have been used repeatedly since the beginning of the war? It's upwards of 30 percent or 40 percent. For U.S., it's below 2.35 percent. Jim, that's very important for the U.S.

SCIUTTO: No question. Although, Congress did pass a law a number of years ago that they should be - those dud rate should be below 1 percent.

[15:05:02]

Certainly lower than Russian munitions, but a danger nonetheless.

Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, thanks so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Vladimir Putin cleaning house after last month's brief but highly embarrassing mutiny. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that at least 13 senior officers suspected of disloyalty were detained for questioning. Some were later released and around 15 were suspended from duty or they were fired.

CNN Senior International Correspondent, Sam Kiley, is joining us now on this story. So Sam, one of the biggest names on the list, of course, is Gen. Sergey Surovikin. He's someone who had close ties to the head of Wagner, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

What do we know at this point about his fate?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's largely famous for his absence at the moment, Brianna. We only know from a figure in the State Duma. That's the Russian parliament that according to him, the general who was an Air Force General is "resting."

He was reportedly taken into custody and subjected to interrogation over his close links with the Yevgeny Prigozhin, the leader of the mercenary group in Russia. And that mercenary group, I think, Brianna, is very, very important from the Ukrainian perspective first because they concentrated they're fighting around Bakhmut and then because over the last few months they've been overtly mutinous, culminating in that attempted coup that is the subject of that interrogation for the Russian general.

But on top of that, we've now got an extremely important development with Ivan Popov, a Russian general who's recently been fired. An audio tape from him - purporting to be from him - saying very much the same thing as the Wagner leadership have been saying, blaming the Russian military - Ministry of Defense leadership for Russian failures on the front line in his words, decapitating, I quote there, "the Russian efforts."

Now, he was the commander of the 58th Army down in Zaporizhzhia. That is arguably the most important frontline area in the Ukrainian counteroffensive and he has now been relieved of his position, he says, and bitterly critical of the Kremlin and the leadership under the Kremlin of the Russian Armed Forces.

This is the first time we've heard from a regular Russian soldier one, reportedly extremely popular with his men, breaking ranks. This is exactly what the Ukrainians want to see, mutiny in the ranks of the Russians will save a lot of Ukrainian lives ultimately.

KEILAR: Yes, a lot of destabilization there for the Russians.

Sam Kiley, live for us, thank you. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine, of course, central to the discussions during President Biden's five-day trip to Europe. He closed out that trip today with a visit to Russia's neighbor and the newest member of the alliance, Finland. And while in Helsinki, Biden sent a clear message to Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Putin's already lost the war. Putin has a real problem. How does he move from here? What does he do? There is no possibility of him winning the war in Ukraine. He's already lost that war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Quite different comments from a U.S. president. Of course, five years ago, Trump in Helsinki took Putin's word in effect that he had not interfered in the 2016 election.

Arlette, this was a busy five-day trip to Europe with both the NATO Summit, the visit to Finland. I wonder from the administration's perspective, do they believe they're leaving with what they intended to gain from all this? ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, President Biden himself told reporters that he believes he accomplished the goals he set out to meet with this visit to Europe, that includes rallying more support towards Ukraine as well as strengthening the NATO Alliance.

Of course, that strengthening of the NATO Alliance was on full display here at his final stop in Helsinki, Finland, as the President met with Nordic leaders, which included the leaders of Finland and Sweden.

Finland, of course, the newest member to the NATO Alliance, having joined just in April and Sweden recently had approval from Turkey given to them during - right just ahead of that NATO Summit. Turkey, of course, has been objecting to Sweden's entry into NATO for quite some time. And Erdogan has now blocked those objections and is setting up a vote in the Turkish parliament to fully approve Sweden and then move its way into the Alliance.

But President Biden here also gave a very frank assessment of where he thinks Russian President Vladimir Putin is in terms of winning this war. The President said that he doesn't believe that this is a war that Putin can wage for years, that he doesn't like to - he doesn't have the resources to do so and he very bluntly said that he believes Putin has lost.

The President ultimately hopes that Ukrainians will be able to mount a counteroffensive and bring Russia into a negotiated settlement to try to find some way out of this war.

[15:09:59]

But really what the President had been trying to do throughout the trip is demonstrate and put forward those ideas of a strengthened NATO and also rallying support around Ukraine. You, of course, had some tension at the start of that NATO Summit, as Zelenskyy was at odds with NATO allies about how exactly they would lay out a pathway for membership for Ukraine.

At the end of the summit, President Biden was very forceful in saying that he believes Ukraine's place is in the NATO Alliance, even if that timeline and those conditions have yet to be met. And of course, as you mentioned, the backdrop of this event here in Helsinki, Finland was incredibly important.

When you think about the fact that former president, Donald Trump, stood here in Helsinki meeting with Putin siding with Putin over his U.S. intelligence community about their assessments of the election interference. On the other hand, you had President Biden here showing that NATO is even more strengthened in their resolve against Russia. Jim?

SCIUTTO: And by the way bigger and more united than it was prior, and that part of the rationale for saying it has been a strategic failure for Russia with its invasion of Ukraine.

Arlette, enjoy the scenes there in Helsinki. Thanks so much. Brianna? KEILAR: All right. This just into CNN, we're learning that Republican senator, Tommy Tuberville, who has been blocking senior military nominations, promotions has now talk to Defense Secretary, Lloyd Austin, about this. President Biden today calling this block irresponsible saying it is jeopardizing U.S. security.

Prior to this call, Austin had told our Wolf Blitzer what he would say to Tuberville if he got the chance to talk to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Sen. Tuberville said he's only spoken to about this once, that was back in February. Why not have a conversation with him and get this resolved?

LLOYD AUSTIN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I will, Wolf. I certainly will engage - continue to engage him, yes.

BLITZER: But if you're not doing it right now, I mean, this last conversation was in February.

AUSTIJN: It was in March, end of March. But yes, I'll engage.

BLITZER: You'll talk to him and your message to him will be --

AUSTIN: He needs to lift the hulls (ph), Wolf. We - this is a national security issue. It's a readiness issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's go to CNN's Manu Raju, who has been covering this from the hill.

Manu, what's the latest?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I just heard from Sen. Tuberville's office about that phone call that he had. They - we are learning that they did connect today that the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Tommy Tuberville did talk amid this blockade of Tuberville holding up more than 250 military nominations over Tuberville's demands that the Pentagon can change its abortion policy.

Now, Tuberville's office told me that that call in their words were cordial. They were productive and that the senator looks forward to continuing the conversation. No indication of the standoff has eased at all.

In fact, in talking to Sen. Tuberville earlier today, he made clear that the President's attacks against him simply are not going to be enough for him to back off. He does not believe this having any impact on national security. And he says the pressure campaign, including from some fellow Republicans will not be enough for him to back off and let these nominations go through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): It doesn't sound like anybody wants to sit down and visit and work a problem out. It sounds like somebody who wants to argue about it. I'm not in this to argue. I'm just in this to try to be fair and do what's right. There's no chance of changing my position if we don't sit down and visit.

RAJU: I mean, the Republicans he said that this way this ends is Republicans need to put pressure on you to relent.

TUBERVILLE: That's not happening. I've already told you, that's not going to happen. I'm doing it for - not for the Republican Party. I'm doing it for Republicans and Democrats and citizens of this country.

Calling me names is not going to work it out. The President of the United States, I'm glad he knows who I am now. But communication is the best way for negotiation and there's been none.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And Tuberville has said that there is no middle ground between his position and the White House's position. His position is to simply remove - kill that policy that allows for reimbursement for military service members who have to travel out of state for the abortion procedure that he wants to have gone. He wants a Senate vote on that issue. That is something the White House and the Pentagon and Democrats don't want to entertain.

So there's been (ph) any change or shift, no indication of that yet. And separately, Brianna, that issue by the Pentagon abortion policy, also scrambling the politics in the House, they're trying to jam through a massive defense bill as soon as the end of this week, but that abortion issue could complicate things in the other chamber as well, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. For service members and also for their dependents, including spouses, many of whom are female and live in states where they cannot access abortion after six weeks.

Manu Raju live for us on the Hill, thank you. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Talks between the Screen Actors Guild and studios have now broken down the stage set for a strike. Will your favorite shows have to stop production? We're going to have a live report from Los Angeles just ahead.

Plus, why some of President Biden supporters are hitting the panic button now over his reelection strategy.

[15:15:04]

And the FDA is changing how women can get birth control.

All this and the FDA is changing how women can get birth control. All this on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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SCIUTTO: This just in to CNN, for the first time since 1960, we will be looking at Hollywood on strike on two fronts. The union's four actors have just confirmed they will withhold their labor, join the picket lines, contract negotiation between the studio and SAG-AFTRA fell apart overnight.

Now, the union representing more than a hundred thousand plus actors will join the writers who have been on strike for more than 70 days.

CNN's Natasha Chen, she's been covering this from Los Angeles.

Natasha, this is - I don't know if it's a shock, but it's certainly big news there with big repercussions. Tell us what this means going forward.

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NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are going to see 160,000 actors join the more than 11,000 writers who have already been on strike for more than 70 days. This is the grinding Hollywood to a halt. I just stepped out of the press conference that began a few moments ago, just as SAG-AFTRA was announcing that their national board has unanimously voted to strike after not being able to come to a deal with the studios as of last night.

And the President of SAG-AFTRA, Fran Drescher, is speaking right now as we speak and one of her sentiments is that she announces this with great sadness that this was a grave, serious move to make and that there was no agreement when it came to issues of better compensation, better residual pay in the world of streaming services, and protections in the world of artificial intelligence, where technology of AI could really take the digital likeness of an actor.

And so the studios, at the same time, today had released a statement saying they had offered groundbreaking protections in that field and higher compensation, and they're disappointed that SAG-AFTRA walked away, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Natasha Chen, do you know how far apart the two sides were at this point as they came to a decision, that SAG-AFTRA came to a decision to strike?

CHEN: That's a great question. They actually had a media blackout during these negotiations. So there was not a lot of discussion about what the exact proposals were on each side. I'm sure we'll learn about that now, since there is an official strike and we'll be asking those questions in the coming hours.

SCIUTTO: Well, clearly far enough apart that they didn't think they could come to agreement at this point.

Natasha Chen, thanks so much.

I want to bring in now Marc Malkin, he's senior editor at Variety. Marc, good to have you on. This is a big moment for Hollywood. We already saw the impact for some 70 days of the writers being on strike now, the actors join them. Are you surprised that it's come to this?

MARC MALKIN, SENIOR EDITOR, VARIETY: I'm not surprised that it has come to this for four weeks they've been trying to hash out a deal. There were moments, I will say, that we thought okay maybe they're going to do it. But then this week, when they brought in a federal mediator at the last - literally during the last hours, you knew this was not going to go well.

Like previously was said, there has been a media blackout on everything. But I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. Right now Hollywood is coming to a complete stop.

SCIUTTO: Technology is so central to this disagreement here. The advent of AI, Artificial Intelligence to write, but also streaming, right, are they getting - and clearly they're not getting what they think they should get from streaming platforms, how much has that shaken these relationships?

MALKIN: The relate - basically right now, there is just no trust. Like you said, when it comes to streaming, what the actors want is they want more residuals. For many, many years, for decades, actors - and I'm not talking about the $20 million, the A-list actors. We're talking about the actor who just makes living as an actor. They made their living off of residuals.

Last night I was with - I was at an event, I was with Melanie lynskey from "The Last of Us" and "Yellowjackets." And she said for years it was residuals that paid her bills. So most of the actors going on strike are not the $20 million actors.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MALKIN: They're the actors who need these residuals. The problem here is the streamers don't want to open their books and let people know exactly how many people are watching these shows.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's such a great point. It's very tiny sliver of those 160,000 actors who make those big ticket payments. For folks at home who are dedicated to their "Yellowstones," and you name it, streaming series, how quickly will they see an impact from this?

MALKIN: They could start seeing an impact pretty - right now, I think most of the streamers or studios are saying for the next six months, they have their content, they'll be able to roll it out in a reasonable time, in the scheduled time. But as many of these movies right now, they are going to shut down, the movie production is going to shut down, TV productions have shut down.

They've already - many have already shut down because of the writer's strike. So we're going to see season premieres happening much later. And as we speak, there's a premiere in London going on of "Oppenheimer," and the cast has left the premiere.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

MALKIN: Because the strike has been called. They did the red carpet, but they have left the theater.

SCIUTTO: Wow. Happens right - before we go, Bob Iger, of course, the CEO of Disney, was asked about the strike earlier today, this is on CNBC from Mountain Sun Valley (ph) of the Allen & Company's (ph) conference. And he said, listen, it's their right to push for as much as they can get, but he described the actors' demands here as unreasonable going too far.

[15:25:05]

I just want to give you a chance covering this so closely to respond to that.

MALKIN: This is a tough one because then you have on the other side, someone like Fran Drescher, the President of Sag-AFTRA, he's saying, you're being really greedy. When you look at the salaries of the CEOs of the studios, of the streamers, it just makes everyone's blood boil here in Hollywood and actors who can't pay their bills when they're making 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars. So there is going - have to be some give and take, compromise. In the end, not everyone will be happy 100 percent, but something has to bend.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Someone has said that on the Hill once before that when no one's happy, that means you got a good deal.

Marc Malkin, Senior Editor of Variety, thanks so much.

MALKIN: Take care.

SCIUTTO: Brianna?

KEILAR: Some Democrats are getting anxious over the pace of President Biden's reelection campaign. We're going to tell you what they're saying and why things like hiring are so far behind.