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Trump Says He's Target of Jan. 6 Probe, Expects Indictment; New Video Appears to Show Wagner Chief Prigozhin Greeting His Fighters in Belarus; Trump Strategizes With Hill Allies Over Jan. 6 Criminal Probe. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 19, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN: CNN ANCHOR: Conspiracy to defraud the government, deprivation of rights, tampering with a witness, the new details this morning about the possible new charges Donald Trump could soon be facing.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: A top U.K. intelligence official says Russian President Putin was forced to cut a humiliating deal with the man who tried to overthrow Putin's government. Ahead, new details on Wagner Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin's short-lived rebellion and new video has just surfaced believed to show Prigozhin.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Pentagon working to secure the release of the U.S. soldier who still detained in North Korea. No indication he was trying to defect, though, he was facing disciplinary action and about to be separated from the army. What his mother is now saying.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

BERMAN: So, this morning, for the first time, there is reporting about the possible law the special counsel thinks Donald Trump might have broken. The statutes listed in the target letter surrounding the January 6th investigations. Those statutes reportedly involve conspiracy to commit offense or defraud the United States, deprivation of rights and tampering with a witness.

Broadly speaking, what still has to be determined, exactly what acts correspond to those statutes? What can we discern based on the people we know the special counsel has been speaking with.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now. It has been a whirlwind 24 hours. First news, the target letter, then a little bit of reporting about what's inside of it. What's the latest, Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John, a whirlwind 24 hours for Donald Trump getting that target letter, realizing that it's very likely that he could be arrested and charged with federal crimes related to January 6, his actions after the election. But it's also been a whirlwind of an investigation. The special counsel's office, when we look at what they've been doing over several months, even prior to the appointment of Special Counsel Jack Smith, the Justice Department has built a very, very good picture of not just what happened in the White House, what Donald Trump was saying and doing before this grand jury.

They have also looked at the states across the country and talked to election officials, talked to people who were receiving calls directly from Donald Trump, receiving direct pressure from him either to find votes or to somehow deliver states he lost to his column for the Electoral College so that he could overturn the popular vote in the closest states across the country.

And so when you look at that list of witnesses, that's quite the board of faces there. It's people like former Vice President Mike Pence, who was compelled to testify to the grand jury not just about what he witnessed generally on January 6 and leading up to that day, but also his direct conversations with Donald Trump, the former president, when he was at times being essentially berated by Trump for not doing what Trump wanted.

There are other really key people there on that list that would have been around Trump testifying to the grand jury, speaking and being forced to answer questions they had not answered to any other investigative squad that had looked at what happened, people like Mark Meadows, who had refused to talk to Congress about what happened compelled to testify to the grand jury, the White House Counsel's Office folks, the people who are there as attorneys protecting the presidency who would have been in the room for some of the most crucial talks right before January 6, when Trump wanted to overhaul the Justice Department and do other things.

[10:05:28]

And they were telling him, those aren't legal things that you can do or we really advise you not to take those steps.

And then his closest advisers, people like his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, people like Hope Hicks, Stephen Miller, who he was on the phone with, discussing what he was going to say on The Ellipse, whether or not to mention Mike Pence.

Take this all together and then put it on top of what the special counsel's office has also been confirmed to be looking at. These state officials they've talked to across seven battleground states where Trump had fake electors and also was trying to send people out in different ways or put pressure there, all of that together, John, is quite the investigation. We'll see what's in the charges ultimately, but they have a lot to work with.

BERMAN: Katelyn, very quickly, if Donald Trump was given four days in this target letter to appear before the grand jury, which no one expects him to do, when would that put the earliest date for a possible indictment? Do we even know? Would that mean Friday?

POLANTZ: Well, that sounds like it could be a possibility. Also, Thursday could be a possibility. We don't know if they included a time for a deadline where he needed to inform the Justice Department. But, yes, we do know that there is going to be grand jury activity on Thursday, and there has already been some this week. Things could happen really fast. John?

BERMAN: Very quickly, potentially. Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for that. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Joining us now on exactly that is former U.S. Attorney Michael Moore and CNN Senior Political Analyst and Senior Editor at The Atlantic Ron Brownstein. It's good to see you guys.

Michael, John and Katelyn went through the statutes that are contained in this target letter, three possible things we're talking about here, deprivation of rights, conspiracy to defraud the United States and tampering with a witness. Of those three, does something stick out to you?

MICHAEL MOORE, PARTNER, MOORE HALL: Yes, well, I'm glad to be with all of you. I really think the tampering with the witness charge is maybe the cleanest case. And the simple reason is those all accounts after the January 6 committee evidence and presentation that occurred post Trump's presidency and efforts in order, it was essentially some efforts that he made to contact people within his circle to reach out to potential witnesses. And so those seem to be a little bit cleaner because you don't get into issues of executive privilege and presidential powers and immunity and all those things.

It's not the most serious charge. I mean, when you start looking at the charges that are possible, the idea of deprivation of rights means that somebody under color of law tried to deprive another person or group of people of rights that are guaranteed to them by the Constitution or the laws of the United States. And so that is obviously probably the most significant charge that may be out there.

But you're going to get into questions then about what could he say as president, what could he do as president, was his speech protected as political speech at the time. And so I really think a cleaner case may be the latter, but we'll see which way they go.

BOLDUAN: Michael, real quick, again, I'm talking about it as if the indictment has come. We have not seen an indictment. But if an indictment comes and the charges are related to this, would it be surprising to you or what does it say that incitement of insurrection isn't part of this?

MOORE: It's not particularly surprising. I mean, I think that probably the special counsel is looking at all of the possible defenses and arguments and pre-trial motions and appeals that are likely to follow in this case. And so I think he's looking at things that he can actually say. I can see Trump's fingerprints on it, as opposed to just trying to catch his whispers in the wind with a net and somehow stick them to him in indictment. So, I think he's really looking for those things that he can actually put Trump's hands on.

BOLDUAN: I see. Ron, part of -- there's the legal and there's the political, and there's some crossover here when you talk about Donald Trump and the defense that he is trying to put out publicly already. We know the reporting from my Hill team is that Trump spoke yesterday with Kevin McCarthy and Elise Stefanik to strategize on how they can help defend him if charges come.

What could the impact be of any effort like that and just an indictment related to January 6, if it comes, on a Republican Party trying to hold on to majority in the House?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it could be very significant. I mean, look, every opportunity the Republicans have had to take an offering from Donald Trump over, what, eight years now, they have gone past and they've more often doubled down on their support for him. So, it's likely that that is the way this is going to end, too.

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But we're past the preliminaries here, Kate. I mean, these earlier indictments on classified documents and on the hush money payments really set us up for this, which it gets to the core offense, the most consequential offense that Trump is alleged to have engaged in, which is trying to overthrow the 2020 election and in the process to undermine American democracy.

We know from polling that the vast majority of Republican voters accept his argument that it's politically motivated, it's not fair, it's biased. But outside of the Republican coalition, I mean, there is clear evidence in polling that most other Americans view this, in fact, as very serious. Polling a few weeks ago from NPR, from Marist shows that like 75 percent of independents say he should not be president again if convicted of a crime, whereas roughly three-fifths of Republicans say that's fine with them.

So, by identifying, by wrapping themselves further around Trump, there is undeniable risk here. And, of course, beyond the electoral risk, there is risk for the American political system when the dominant faction in one party is willing to countenance such openly anti- democratic behavior. That does not lead to a good place.

BOLDUAN: That's an important point as well, of course, throughout all of this. I mean, does he remain the front runner in spite of or because of the growing list of charges against him? We will continue to see, as you're saying, is already showing some evidence in polling of what people think.

Michael, what impact would an indictment here from the special counsel have on -- I'm going to call them related charges, at least the related issues that we've now seen charges coming of Michigan related to charging the fake electors there, or the investigation in Fulton County, Georgia, that you and I have talked about so much that's ongoing or even the other way around if they impact this or this impacts that. Just I'm curious.

MOORE: Well, I've always felt like the special counsel's case is the one that should be brought. And that is at the Department of Justice, when you're talking about indicting a former president, that you do it with that weight of that office and the sort of that clearer picture of impartiality and non-partisanship, as opposed to some of the locally elected prosecutors who run on partisan tickets, so they can be claimed that this is just a rogue Democrat D.A. out to get the Republican frontrunner.

So, I do think that it should have some impact. I think the reality is that it will not have much impact on decisions to bring charges.

And you'll see charges brought in Fulton County, I believe. You are seeing the special lecture charges brought in other places. And I think these multiple indictments are probably doing more to strengthen his arguments and the likelihood that the jury may buy into some of his arguments of persecution as opposed to a fair and just prosecution.

BOLDUAN: Interesting. It's good to see you both. Thank you so much, Michael Moore, Ron Brownstein. Sara?

SIDNER: Still ahead, this is new video that appears to show Wagner Mercenary Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin in Belarus. Why U.K. intelligence says he's still a free man after his failed mutiny against Putin's government. The details on that ahead.

Also, what we know about the moments before a U.S. Soldier, quote, willfully crossed the DMZ and ended up in North Korean custody and what his mother is saying about him now.

Also, Donald Trump, Republican's primary rivals react to the news he's a target of the special counsel's January 6 investigation. All of that coming up.

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SIDNER: The man who led the revolt against Putin's government may have just resurfaced in public. CNN has found video posted on a pro- Wagner Telegram channel that appears to show Wagner Mercenary Boss Yevgeny Prigozhin greeting fighters in Belarus. However, we do not know exactly when that video was taken.

This video servicing as Britain's intelligence chief tells our CNN's Nick Payton Walsh that he believes Prigozhin is now likely floating about alive and at liberty.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is here following all of this. What more did you hear from this official?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's interesting to see this video, isn't it, Sara, emerging just hours after we heard from Britain's MI-6 chief, Sir Richard Moore, here in Prague, that on their assessment, Yevgeny Prigozhin, I've asked, is he alive, is he healthy. Remember, we haven't seen him since he was in Rostov during this failed rebellion. He appeared in the dark in the back of an SUV, and then vanished from public view, seemingly re-emerging in this unverified video. We don't really know what it shows.

But the comments we heard here essentially suggested that the public version of what we'd seen happening during that failed mutiny that signals we were getting from the Kremlin and from the Belarusian president, Alexander Lukashenko, did, in fact, tally with the best assessments being made by western intelligence that essentially it was a rare moment where what you saw was what you got, that, really, behind closed doors, the same thing was happening. We were getting public signals about two.

But it was an interesting rare speech here from the head of MI-6, essentially, at times expressing what we'd all felt during that weekend, shock and bewilderment, confusion at times, that that failed mutiny was indeed even happening.

Richard Moore referred to the deal cut with Putin with Prigozhin, with the assistance of Belarus' president as one that, quote, Putin had cut to save his own skin. And he also talked about the extraordinary changes in loyalties that had happened during that weekend. Here's what he said.

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RICHARD MOORE, CHIEF, BRITISH SECRET INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: If you look at Putin's behaviors on that day, Prigozhin started off, I think, as a traitor at breakfast, he had been pardoned by supper, and then a few days later, he was invited for tea. So, there are some things, Anne, that even the chief of MI-6 finds it a little bit difficult to try and interpret in terms of who's in and who's out.

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WALSH: Now, certainly, a message here that they continue to see fissures in the Russian elite, that they think Russia won't be able to regain momentum on the battlefield importantly for Ukraine in the months ahead.

But also, too, using that clear sign, they believe, of Putin's unprecedented weakness over that weekend to launch an abnormal appeal, frankly, he stood on the stage here in the British Embassy and said, if you are a disaffected Russian who doesn't like what your country's doing in Ukraine, come inspire for the United Kingdom.

A rare thing to hear, but we are in unprecedented times here, and fascinating, I think, to see how -- what we saw publicly that weekend appears to be what most intelligence assessments think actually occurred in private. Sara?

SIDNER: It is really fascinating. We haven't seen him for weeks. People who have done much less to the Russian government and to Putin have either been jailed or, worse, killed. And now, here, we're learning that he, according to U.K. intelligence, is free and walking around. It's had to be in a humiliating negotiation for Vladimir Putin. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you for that great reporting. I appreciate it. John?

BERMAN: So, overnight, Ukraine says it shot down dozens and dozens of Russian drones and cruise missiles over the port city of Odessa. The mayor of Odessa called it one of the most horrible nights of the year.

Odessa Ukrainian military officials say the attack did manage to hit grain and oil terminals, tanks and loading equipment.

CNN Clare Sebastian has the latest for us. Clare, what have you learned?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. This was a pretty large scale attacks. For context, there were more than 30 cruise missiles launched from sea, air and land by Russia. That's five times the number we saw on the previous night, which was also not an insignificant attack.

The key focus, Odessa. The Ukrainian authorities, as you're saying, including President Zelenskyy, accusing Russia of deliberately targeting grain related facilities. This comes, don't forget, just two days after Russia are pulled out of that crucial Black Sea grain initiative.

We're now also hearing from the Agriculture Ministry of Ukraine, that says 60,000 tons of grain was destroyed, grain that was supposed to have been loaded onto a ship to transit through those previously safe maritime corridors some 60 days ago.

That was in the port of Chornomorsk, just along the Black Sea Coast from Odessa. So, a terrifying night for this city, which, before the war, had a population of almost a million people.

Russia's account, though, they don't admit to targeting grain facilities. They simply say that they were targeting military industrial facilities, fuel and ammunition storages and things like that.

And, separately, John, just quickly, Russia is also dealing with the fallout of a pretty major incident, it seems, in Crimea, a fire broke out at a military training facility, and ammunition depot that several thousand people had to be evacuated. No official note yet on the cause of that.

BERMAN: All right. Clare Sebastian for us, thank you so much for that update, Clare. Kate? I'll take it.

Coming up, Donald Trump turning to his allies on Capitol Hill looking for help as he could be facing new criminal charges in his effort to overturn the 2020 election. What the coordinated effort to defend Donald Trump from Capitol Hill will now look like.

And a big fundraising boost for Tim Scott, a super PAC planning a huge ad buy to support his run.

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BOLDUAN: With former President Donald Trump facing a potential third indictment, this time for efforts related to trying to overturn the 2020 election results, he is now strategizing with his closest supporters on Capitol Hill.

Multiple sources tell CNN that Trump spoke with both House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and the House Republican Conference chair, Elise Stefanik, yesterday. The conversations focused on how they will go on offense as soon as an indictment would drop.

CNN's Alayna Treene back with us following this aspect of this story for us now. Alayna, what kind of conversations is Trump having here? What is the strategy?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, I think what Donald Trump is trying to do here really is control the political aspect of this. And it's what he's always tried to do when he's been faced with legal issues like this with the past two indictments, as well as when he faced impeachment on Capitol Hill.

And we know that House Speaker Kevin McCarthy called Donald Trump yesterday shortly after learning of him receiving that target letter. And he also had a conversation with Elise Stefanik.

And a source familiar with that call told me that the conversation was pretty long. And they talked about her going on offense, both through her roles in the committee, specifically the House subcommittee on weaponization, but also how she could rally support from the Republican Conference around him and ultimately try to defend him.

And that's exactly what we're already seeing many Republicans on Capitol Hill do, and we've seen it again with the previous two indictments.

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They are coming to his defense. They are criticizing Special Counsel Jack Smith, and they're labeling these investigations as political.