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Israeli President to Address Congress; The President of Israel Set to Address a Joint Meeting of the House and Senate; Trump Could be Facing Another Indicted Relating to January 6th; Special Counsel's target letter to Donald Trump; Herzog Marks the 75th Anniversary of Israel; Possible Pending Indictment Against Donald Trump; Interview with Former Trump White House Lawyer Jim Schultz; Republican 2024 Candidates Reacting to Trump's Another Possible Indictment; New Details About U.S. Soldier Who Crossed into North Korea; CNN Exclusive Interview with Governor Ron DeSantis. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 19, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We have new details this morning about the Special Counsel's target letter to Donald Trump. We are learning about the possible charges the former president could be facing for his attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also, new reporting about how he is trying to fight back both in the courtroom and in the political arena.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Israeli president and the American Congress, we're keeping a close eye on Capitol Hill this hour as Isaac Herzog is about to address a joint meeting of the House and Senate. I'm Kate Baldwin with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is "CNN News Central."

We are now moments away from the Israeli president addressing a joint meeting of Congress. One of the highest marks of respect that the Congress affords to foreign leaders. He's only the second Israeli president to make such an address. The first was his father, President Chaim Herzog, 35 years ago. Despite strong bipartisan ties between American lawmakers and Israel and longstanding ties, this visit and this address is exposing some tension within the Democratic Party around that support right now in this political arena.

CNNs Lauren Fox back with us from Capitol Hill. Lauren, this is about to begin, talk to me about this speech and this moment.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, obviously, the chamber is looking more and more full as we await this address by the Israeli president. One thing that has become very clear is there is strong bipartisan support on Capitol Hill for Israel, despite the fact that over the last several days, there have been some tensions in the Democratic ranks that you talked about at the top.

One of those tensions, of course, came over the weekend when the leader of the progressive caucus in the House of Representatives, Pramila Jayapal, called Israel a racist state. She later walked back those comments. But Republicans putting a resolution on the floor last night, asking lawmakers whether or not they supported Israel, that resolution passed overwhelmingly with just nine Democrats voting against it, because they said that they had concerns about Israel's human rights record.

There are a handful of Democratic progressives who are not in the chamber for this speech, saying that they have, again, concerns about Israel's human rights records. Some of those members include Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as well as Cori Bush. We also know that Ilhan Omar is not going to be in the chamber, neither is Jamal Bowman. So, those are just a number of Democrats who are not going to be attending this speech today.

But overwhelmingly, you are seeing on the House floor, both Republicans and Democrats in the chamber, getting ready to hear from once again, Israel's president, Herzog, in just a few moments. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And we're showing right next to where you are, Lauren we're showing this is a live look at the House Chamber of what Lauren is talking about. You see the house speaker with Vice President Kamala Harris standing at the dais, at the top right there. And generally speaking, Democrats sit on the left and Republicans on the right from the view that we have right here. And is -- looks like they're just standing by to stand by, to see the Israeli president enter to begin this address. Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Now, to a potential major clue into Special Counsel Jack Smith's mindset as Donald Trump waits to learn if he'll be indicted again. We learned this morning the letter that calls Trump a target in the 2020 election probe mentions three different statutes, conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud the United States, deprivation of rights and tampering with a witness. Those are the laws prosecutors are reportedly weighing as they investigate in question Trump's actions before and around January 6th, and that attack on the Capitol.

Katelyn Polantz joins us now. Katelyn, we've now got these details. What happens now?

[11:05:00]

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Sara, now, we watch the grand jury in the federal court, the grand jury that has been at work for many months, even before the appointment of Special Counsel Jack Smith, to lead this investigation around Donald Trump and others related to the 2020 election.

That grand jury, we expect, to be back tomorrow, they have more work to do. We know of at least one witness, a personal aid to Trump who also worked in the White House is scheduled to come in, scheduled to testify as well as potentially others. And there have been so many pieces of this investigation that prosecutors can work for whenever they are carving out exactly what they want to say in this indictment, if it is approved by the grand jury. That in front of you is just a list of some of the people who have spoken to investigators, not the full list at all, that doesn't even include state officials, but there on that board, it is some of the closest advisors to Donald Trump in the West Wing, his own vice president, Mike Pence, all having spoken to the Special Counsel's office or testified to that grand jury already in addition to turning over documents and having so many other pieces of this investigation come together.

So, when you listed those three possible statutes, the two that really stand out, that conspiracy to defraud the United States and the possible witness tampering statute, which we believe will very likely would be charged as obstruction of an official proceeding, that very much tracks with the arc of this full January 6th investigation, where prosecutors have looked at, not just what Trump was saying and doing inside the West Wing, not just what happened on Capitol Hill on January 6th, but what happened across the country, the sort of thing they've been asking questions about for many months now, from many, many witnesses, from a lot of different parts of both federal and state governments. Sara.

SIDNER: Katelyn Polantz, thank you for your reporting today, and all you're reporting throughout these many weeks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And in revealing the target letter, Donald Trump lashed out against the Special Counsel and that continued throughout the day, speaking publicly about the target letter and the likelihood of a third indictment while on the campaign trail in Iowa.

CNN Alayna Treene is in Bridgewater, New Jersey, which is near Donald Trump's Bedminster property and joining us now once again. Alayna, what is the message then? We've heard from Donald Trump, but also from his campaign team now.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Right. Well, Kate, Donald Trump last night in Iowa was very defiant. He was putting on the public image that we've seen him use around the past two indictments. He railed against these charges and the investigation and this target letter, and he argued that it amounts to election interference. He also specifically attacked Special Counsel Jack Smith.

But privately, this target letter is very much weighing on him. He recognizes the seriousness of these charges. And I'm told, after speaking with some of Donald Trump's advisors, that after his lawyers received that letter on Sunday night, Donald Trump did not share it widely with members of his inner circle. He kept it pretty quiet until announcing it publicly yesterday on social media.

And you know, last night in his interview with "Fox News" is Sean Hannity during a town hall in Cedar Rapids, he admitted that this bothers him. Let's listen to that exchange, Kate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It bothers me. It bothers me for everybody in this incredible sold-out audience and it's it bothers you. I got the letter on Sunday night. Think of it. I don't think they've ever sent a letter on Sunday night. And they're in a rush because they want to interfere. It's interference with the election. It's election interference never been done like this in the history of our country and it's a disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, Kate, you could hear Donald Trump in that exchange complaining about receiving this Sunday night. It's something he also reiterated in a fundraising e-mail that his campaign sent out last night. In that e-mail, Donald Trump said, "The deranged prosecutor with Biden's Department of Justice sent a letter stating that I am a target of the January 6th grand jury investigation." The e-mail continued on to say, "Let me be perfectly clear, I did nothing wrong. I am completely innocent."

And again, we are hearing Donald Trump deny any wrongdoing here and also, trying to raise money off of this target letter, as we've seen him do previously when he was indicted in Manhattan earlier this year, and again, last month in the classified documents probe. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Alayna, thank you so much. Also, I want to show you a live look back on Capitol Hill. We're listening into the Israeli president who looks like he's about to begin his remarks. Let's listen in to the Israeli president, addressing a joint meeting of Congress.

[11:10:00]

ISAAC HERZOG, ISRAELI PRESIDENT: -- democratic State of Israel in its 75th year at the very podium from which my late father, President Chaim Herzog, spoke is in the honor of a lifetime, and I thank you wholeheartedly for it.

I was born and raised in Israel, but my father's diplomatic post at the United Nations brought my family to New York in the 1970s. During high school, I volunteered with a Legal Aid Society for the elderly in Brooklyn, New York. I volunteered with the impoverished and the underprivileged elderly, including war veterans and Holocaust survivors who gave their best years to the country they loved.

My mentor at the organization was a subtle, reserved professional. She was strictly business. The moment she broke character has remained with me for almost 50 years. It was the day she told me the love of her life died fighting for Israel. Her fiance, a tall, bright American Jewish boy, was inspired by designers (ph) dream and the Jewish people's desire for independence.

He voluntarily boarded a ship to Haifa, fought in the Israeli military and fell in the battle for Israel's independence just weeks before their wedding. Although decades had gone by and she rebuilt her life, the cracks in her heart remained. That moment in which I learned of the life he gave for the State of Israel spoke to the very core of the bond forged between the people of the United States and the people of Israel, how the nations we built overcame loss, how deeply our stories complement each other's, how far we have all come together. Speaker McCarthy, I thank you for hosting this festive joint session of Congress celebrating the first 75 years of Israel's independence. Just a few weeks ago, during your first trip abroad as speaker, you honored the Israeli people by addressing the Knesset in Jerusalem, the capital of the State of Israel and the Jewish people, your sincere expression of friendship on behalf of the United States of America truly resonated with Israelis. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: All right. There is the beginning of this address from the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, marking 70 -- the 75th anniversary of Israel. And in seeing this, this is a statement by Washington, by Congress, by American lawmakers, this address, this opportunity to address the Congress is one of the marks of highest esteem to foreign dignitaries that the Congress affords. And we are seeing that being afforded to the Israeli president today. John.

BERMAN: All right. Kate, I know you're going to be keeping an eye on that speech. And while you continue to watch that, we're going to give you the very latest on the possible pending indictment against Donald Trump. Joining us now as former Trump White House lawyer, Jim Schultz.

Counselor, great to see you. Get that sip of water, because you're about to do a lot of talking, my friend. So, there's new reporting about the statutes that the Special Counsel thinks that Donald Trump might have violated, listed in the target letter. And I want to go through them with you. They are conspiracy to committed offense or defraud the United States, deprivation of rights, and the third is witness tampering. Although, we think broadly speaking, that would be considered in the sense of obstruction of an act of Congress.

When you see those listed reportedly as part of the target letter, how do they strike you? What's your major takeaway?

JIM SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: I was not surprised by any of it, right? So, we've been talking about the conspiracy to defraud the United States government for some time, that feeds into the fake -- the fake electors issue feeds into that, the pressure upon the vice president feeds into that, perhaps switching out the attorney general or doing some type of investigation into the voting machines feeds into that. So, no surprise there.

The deprivation of rights, I assume that has some touch to the constitutional rights to fair elections. And the tampering piece is either, you know, garden variety, witness tampering or something to do with Congress, as you stated.

[11:15:00]

So, no surprise on any of these, given what we saw. Remember, a lot of this came out during the January 6th hearings, right? For those who didn't take the Fifth, for those who testified, we heard the testimony. So, a lot of this is not going to end up being new information.

It'll be interesting to see how -- what detail is in that indictment when it hits relating to kind of Donald Trump's knowledge, what people said about that as it relates to whether he thought he had won or lost the election, I think that's going to be a key.

Another is going to be a key of what people said, maybe folks that had taken -- partially taken the Fifth Amendment or had, you know, otherwise not testified during the January 6th hearings, you know, what information is going to come out, like we saw in the previous indictment, that was kind of the surprise, right, the issue of -- you know, that taped conversation that they had in the previous indictment or other there things like that that's going to, you know, lock this thing down.

BERMAN: One person who did not testify to the January 6th Committee was the former vice president of the United States, Mike Pence. You listed the conversation with Mike Pence as something that could fall within the framework of conspiracy to defraud. What are the types of possible things that Mike Pence, who did speak with prosecutors, could have said that could put Donald Trump in some kind of legal jeopardy?

SCHULTZ: Well, the question is what type of official oppression took place? What conversations took place with the vice president? You know, what types of pressure were put on him to -- you know, what did they ask him to do? A lot of that did come out by way of hearsay evidence in the January 6th Committee meetings, in the January 6th Committee hearings.

BERMAN: Right.

SCHULTZ: But that wouldn't be admissible in court. What was said to the vice president and what was told to him, you know, firsthand knowledge, its what's going to be relevant in this proceeding. So, we'll have to wait and see.

BERMAN: Mike Pence, Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, if I'm the prosecutor, I say, what did Donald Trump tell you that's new information? Up until this point, the public hasn't had the exact answers to that, correct?

SCHULTZ: That's right. A lot of that, again, was hearsay as to what others had said in the January 6th Committee hearing that people had said to Mark Meadows, and it was a second-hand account. Again, none of that matters as it relates to a trial where you have rules of evidence that you have to follow now that the -- what they testify to is going to be material, relevant, and we'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure it's going to show up in the indictment if it matters.

BERMAN: If it matters, we can expect to see it, maybe, maybe soon. You know, the clock ticking from that Sunday night delivery of the target letter, four days for Donald Trump to respond to the grand jury. Does that expire tomorrow, Thursday or Friday, or will they take longer than that? We'll have to wait and see.

This is taking place. This investigation is taking place in Washington, D.C. Of the moral law documents case is Florida-based for Florida grand jury. Now, before Florida federal judge. What's the implication of that? Why will that matter going forward?

SIDNER: Well, you know, obviously I don't believe you're going to have a less friendly jury, I believe in Washington, D.C., right? I don't -- I believe that's the case for Donald Trump, in my estimation. You're going to have a more friendly jury in Florida than you are in Washington, D.C.

But again, all this comes down to -- at the end of the day, that jury is going to be instructed on the law and whether the facts meet the elements of the crime, and they're going to have to make a determination based upon the facts and marrying that up to the law and saying whether a crime is being committed.

So, look, a lot of that plays into, you know, how popular is he, how unpopular is he. But at the end of the day, jurors -- typical, you're going to get a jury of your peers that are going to sit before, that are going to listen to the testimony and make judgements. And lawyers -- good lawyers are going to be striking jurors in that jury selection process and making determinations on who would be good jury. You're going to get a fair jury and they're going to look at the evidence and the facts and make a determination.

BERMAN: Very quickly if possible. You get a trial more quickly, a court date more quickly than they appeared to be getting in Florida?

SCHULTZ: So, no, I don't think so. I think if this case -- I think this is going to be more, you know, evidence intensive in terms of testimony of witnesses. I think that discovery is going to be a lot more voluminous in this case. I think this case is not going to move as quickly as the one in Florida.

The Florida documents case is a much simpler case in my view, right? You don't have as many -- you have a lot of counts, but the issues are pretty basic in terms of what the allegations are. I think it's going to be more complicated in this case, and I think it's going to be a longer process.

Jim Schultz, great to see you. Thank you as always for your help here. Sara.

SIDNER: Coming up, how are the Republican 2024 candidates reacting to another possible Trump indictment. CNN's Jake Tapper will join us with his exclusive interview with Governor Ron DeSantis, who right now is Trump's main challenger.

[11:20:00]

Why and how did U.S. soldier cross into the anti-American authoritarian State of North Korea? What we've learned about the army privates' actions leading up to the decision to cross over the demarcation line. That's ahead on "CNN "News Central."

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[11:25:00]

BOLDUAN: Welcome back, everyone. One thing that Ron DeSantis has is money. DeSantis reported raising $20 million his campaign in the second quarter. The Super PACs support him also has even more, a boatload of cash to throw around in support of him.

One thing he doesn't have right now is the wind at his back, it seems. That's at least the take from some of his allies and supporters who have not so quietly been pushing for him to shake up his campaign in these early stages of the primary race. But will that all change now with the new possible legal troubles that Donald Trump could be facing, who DeSantis is laser focused on trying to unseat as the front runner?

My colleague, Jake Tapper, asked DeSantis about that target letter to Donald Trump and his exclusive sit down with DeSantis about the state of his campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: So, I do have to ask about the breaking news today.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sure.

TAPPER: Your chief competitor, the front runner right now, Donald Trump, says he was informed that he is the target of Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation into efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. And Mr. Trump has until Thursday to report to the grand jury. If Jack Smith has evidence of criminality, should Donald Trump be held accountable?

DESANTIS: So, here's the problem, this country is going down the road of criminalizing political differences, and I think that's wrong. Alvin Bragg stretched a statute in Manhattan to be able to try to target Donald Trump. Most people, even people on the left acknowledge if that wasn't Trump, that case would not have likely been brought against the normal civilian. And so, you have a situation where Department of Justice, FBI have been weaponized against people they don't like. And the number one example of that happened to be against Donald Trump with the Russia collusion, that was not a legitimate investigation that was being done to try to drive Trump out office.

And so, what I've said, as president, my job is to restore a single standard of justice to end weaponization of these agencies. We're going to have a new FBI director on day one. We're going to have big changes at the Department of Justice. Americans across the political spectrum need to have confidence that what is going on is based on the rule of law, not based on what political tribe you're in.

And then the second thing I would say is, this country needs to have a debate about the country's future. If I'm the nominee, we'll be able to focus on President Biden's failures, and I'll be able to articulate a positive vision for the future. I don't think it serves us good to have a presidential election focused on what happened four years ago in January. And so, I want to focus on looking forward, I don't want to look back. I do not want to see him. I hope he doesn't get charged. I don't think it'll be good for the country. But at the same time, I've got to focus on looking forward and that's what we're going to do. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: There is much more to that conversation. And Jake joins us now. Jake is also the author of the new book, which is out now, "All the Demons are Here."

Jake, hearing that bit that when DeSantis says, I want to focus on the future, I don't want to focus on the past, we have heard that before from him, we've heard that from other candidates as well, but it left me wondering kind of in this context if DeSantis can kind of sustain that position of, I don't want to talk about 2020, I want to focus on the future.

Just given what could possibly be coming down the pike of an indictment of Donald Trump, the front runner regarding the 2020 election?

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, it is a difficult position to hold because what he is doing is he's trying to make a tacit argument in favor of himself over Donald Trump. The tacit argument is if Donald Trump is the nominee, then we're going to spend the entire election talking about these charges, these claims, these lies about the 2020 election being stolen as opposed to focusing on Joe Biden. And if we focus on Joe Biden, then I, Ron DeSantis, can win. And if we focus on Donald Trump's lies, then Donald Trump will not be able to win.

But that's not what he is saying clearly and precisely, right? I mean, he's making a more tacit argument because he doesn't want to alienate Trump supporters and people who believe the election lies. So, it's a subtle argument in a way. And I have to say, just as a general observation, subtlety is not particularly valued in politics in today's America.

BOLDUAN: That's a good point. And there was obvious hope among DeSantis' team and his supporters that should Trump implode that he would be the last man standing. He'd be the heir apparent, I think, as I've heard it described so many times, not clear -- clearly if that is going to happen with regard to Donald Trump.

But how does that fit into how he talked to you about his campaign, about the target letter that Donald Trump received in just the state of it?

TAPPER: Well, again, I mean, with the exception of Chris Christie, Asa Hutchinson and Will Hurd, all the other Republican candidates are doing everything they can to not criticize Donald Trump explicitly for fear of alienating his supporters, and they hope that some other force, whether it's a Special Counsel or something else will do the work of taking Donald Trump out of the race, and then they'll be there to pick up the pieces.

That's a big hope. I mean, presidential races are really not about hoping that a meteor hits your opponent. You have to take out your opponent. And I don't know that, as of right now, the affirmative case for Ron DeSantis, and there is one to make, he won re-election with 60 percent of the vote -- BOLDUAN: Right.

TAPPER: -- in a swing state, Florida, I don't know that he is doing what he needs to do in order to be the one that defeats Donald Trump as opposed to hoping for the meteor.

[11:30:00]