Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

U.S. Soldier in North Korea; DOJ Assessing Reports of Migrant Mistreatment; Will Trump Face Another Indictment?. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 20, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:34]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: This hour, a federal grand jury is meeting behind closed doors in Washington. Will they be handing up criminal indictments against Donald Trump for fighting to stay in power after he lost the election?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: And as a potential indictment looms, the former president quietly beefed up his legal team overnight. CNN is learning that his attorneys are trying to find out just what evidence and witnesses the special counsel may have.

BOLDUAN: The U.S. soldier who is still detained in North Korea and the eyewitness -- witnesses who saw him run across the border. U.S. officials now trying to figure out why he ran.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Right now, all eyes and at least one Trump legal team is keeping watch on a federal courthouse in Washington. That is where a grand jury is convened right now. And one decision that they could make as soon as today is handing up a criminal indictment against former President Donald Trump, making this -- this would make it the third time that he'd be hit with criminal charges, this time over the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

And while it is unlikely, today is the last day for Trump to respond to the special counsel's target letter to appear and testify before that same grand jury, again, though, unlikely.

CNN has learned who will be testifying today. His name is Will Russell. He's a special assistant to Trump, and this would be Russell's third time testifying.

CNN's Paula Reid has the very latest for us. She's joining us now.

Paula, how soon could we see an indictment? What are you picking up about this?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, former President Trump said in his social media post that the target letter he received gave him until today to decide if he wants to go before the grand jury.

Now, we don't expect he's going to do that. We also don't expect he's going to formally decline or give the special counsel and official notice he's not going to do this. So that lends itself to a lot of ambiguity around the timing of a possible indictment.

We know from other target letters and the special counsel's previous actions that there will likely be a beat, at least a few days, before anything happens. As you noted, the grand jury hearing evidence in this case is seated today. But we also know, Kate, from our reporting that other witnesses are expected to testify in August about this case.

So, right now, in our reporting, we're trying to reconcile what we have learned about this target letter and the fact that we're expecting more witnesses in the coming weeks. I know there's a lot of speculation. It's a little confusing, but these are the actual facts that we have.

He received a target letter, but there are some other, some of them pretty significant witnesses who won't even be speaking to investigators until August. So, at this point, it's unclear when an indictment will come.

BOLDUAN: Obviously, you need to wait for an indictment. And, obviously, the Trump legal team needs to wait to see the charges against him.

But are you already hearing something about what the Trump legal strategy would be around what we have at least been able to glean from the target letter?

REID: Yes, Kate, I think I got a preview of this when I was in court in Florida on Tuesday, when his lawyers appeared alongside prosecutors in the special counsel's office in the Mar-a-Lago documents case.

I mean, for decades, Trump's legal strategy has always been, right, delay, delay, delay. Now, here, though, especially for him personally, the stakes are so much higher, but the refrain is the same. And I saw that on Tuesday. I mean, his lawyers were arguing that it would not be fair to put him on trial before the election, based on his status as a candidate for the presidency.

[11:05:10]

And they also, Kate, made the argument about how many legal problems he has, how many cases they're working on, criminal and civil cases in New York, the criminal case in Florida. And then I think, if we see charges here in D.C., they're going to make a similar argument.

Now, our colleague Kaitlan Collins reporting that they have brought on one of their other lawyers, John Lauro, who has been working on the case, but now he's directly going to help them. And, Kate, they're going to need all the help they can get. We can absolutely expect the strategy will be to pursue some sort of delay until after the 2024 election.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Paula. Let's see what happens today.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Rahel, they have now got more attorneys at least working on it.

SOLOMON: Yes. And we wait and see. Kate, thank you.

And CNN also learning, by the way, that Trump's team is making calls to try to figure out if special counsel Jack Smith has any other evidence or witnesses that they may not know about.

CNN reporter Alayna Treene is in Bridgewater, New Jersey, near Trump's Bedminster club.

Alayna, you have been talking to your sources. I mean, what are they saying about these calls?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Right. Well, good morning, Rahel.

They are. They are reaching out to lawyers and Trump allies and trying to get a better picture of what the potential criminal case against Donald Trump may look like. And, specifically, they're asking about a couple different things. One is, did anyone else receive a target letter like Donald Trump did, or is he the sole subject of this investigation?

The second thing they want to know is what the scope of the evidence is against him and what exactly, like, special counsel Jack Smith's team has to back up some of the charges that they laid out in that target letter?

They also want to know who in Trump world may be cooperating with the special counsel's team. And I do think it's important to know that the charges that they laid out in that target letter that he received on Sunday night are much more scrawling than Donald Trump's team had anticipated and clearly very concerning for them.

Another thing to note as well is that many of the witnesses that had gone before the grand jury are represented by lawyers who are paid for by people within Trump's world. And so that does give them unusual insight into some of the questions that may -- they may be asked of and also something, of course, that Donald Trump's team is looking at very closely.

Now, Trump's team is expected to only have until the end of the day to come and speak before the grand jury if he wants to. We are told that he's not expected to, but we're still waiting to see if he tries to take that opportunity.

And, from there, they're going to see, OK, when do we expect an indictment to come in this case, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Alayna Treene live for us in Bridgewater.

Alayna, thank you -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: And joining us now on this is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

It's good to see you, Jennifer.

On the -- they were just talking about how the Trump team is now trying to glean who else, what other evidence, what other witnesses, and also the information that they're somewhat surprised by the target letter, do you think it's that -- that's noteworthy, in and of itself, just suggesting how different this case really is?

Why?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, most defendants don't know that they have been indicted or what the case is until they have been indicted, right?

The fact of the January 6 investigation, all of the reporting that has happened about this investigation, the fact that these people are being paid by Trump's super PAC, the lawyers, right, so he has so much more information about what this case is than a normal defendant would. So maybe they got a little bit of sense of false confidence, right, like they know what's going on and where it's headed, and now they're surprised the charges are imminent.

BOLDUAN: One thing that Paula reminded us of is, well, there's a witness that is going to be testifying before the grand jury today, Will Russell. This will be his third time before the grand jury.

But also, as Paula was saying, they have their witnesses scheduled into August to come before the grand jury. Do you hand up an indictment without hearing -- with witnesses still lingering out there that you need to hear from? I mean, I'm trying to figure out what that might suggest in terms of timing of an indictment.

RODGERS: Yes, so as soon as an indictment is issued, that grand jury's work as to that defendant and that indictment stops.

So you're not supposed to continue with the grand jury investigation. You would have to get a trial subpoena to learn more from witnesses or get documents. So what may be happening is, they may not indict until all of these witnesses have been heard, or they may actually indict as to the former president, because I think they're very intent on getting this on the calendar before the election.

And they may continue as to potential other defendants. There's been a lot of talk about why folks like Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and others haven't received target letters. It might be because the investigation as to them will continue after the Trump indictment issues.

BOLDUAN: That is interesting, because, of course, the next question after what is Donald Trump going to be facing, so far, we haven't heard of anyone else getting a target letter.

Do you think someone else has to be charged alongside him, given that -- given the statutes that are laid out in that target letter that Donald Trump received? And it involves conspiracy. RODGERS: Right. So conspiracy has to involve two people or more, but they don't have to all be charged.

You can charge it as charging one person conspiring with others known and unknown. It's not usually done that way. And if it is done that way, it's because they have witnesses who will testify that they were part of that conspiracy.

[11:10:09]

BOLDUAN: In this investigation, there has been some sense that a January 6-related case against Trump could be quite complicated, just kind of given presidential powers at play, First Amendment issues at play.

But you think that we could be looking at, if an indictment -- in an indictment on this could actually be a much more streamlined case coming from the special counsel? Why is that? And do you think that means it's a stronger or weaker case?

RODGERS: So, I'm one of the people who thought that maybe this would never get across the finish line because of the potential sprawling nature.

I mean, if you charged all of the strands of this conspiracy, including all of the false electors and all of those people, you would be talking about dozens and dozens of people, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RODGERS: So I think maybe what they have done is shift gears to think about a much tighter case focused on one person and only some of the parts of the conspiracy. And I think that's very smart.

I think it will mean it's a stronger, more focused case. And it will also mean, I think importantly, that they can get it done much sooner, hopefully in advance of the election next year.

BOLDUAN: Can tighten up that timeline, because what you're looking at now is a lot of backup, as his attorneys are trying to present in court, for why they're pushing for a delay, is his seeing all of this kind of come down in succession and in a very close time period.

It's good to see you, Jennifer. Let's see what happens today -- Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, Kate.

And still ahead for us: the Department of Justice now reviewing reports that Texas Troopers were told to push migrants back into the Rio Grande River and also ordered not to give them water to drink. We will take you live to the border coming up next.

Plus, an American soldier was supposed to be flying back to the U.S. from South Korea, but, instead, he skipped the flight and bolted over the border to North Korea. The latest on what officials are learning about why he may have done it. And, later, devastating damage in North Carolina after a tornado tore

a path of destruction for more than 16 miles, ripping apart a Pfizer plant and also injuring more than a dozen people.

Those stories and more on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:44]

BOLDUAN: This morning, the Justice Department is saying that it is assessing now the treatment of migrants along the U.S.-Mexico border amid -- quote -- "troubling reports," specifically, claims Texas Troopers were ordered to deny drinking water to migrants even in the blistering heat and also reports that they were told to push them back into the waters of the Rio Grande toward Mexico.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in the border town of Eagle Pass, Texas, for us.

Rosa, what are you seeing there and what are you hearing?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let me show you around, Kate, because this is where it's all going down.

We actually just saw a very large group of migrants cross, but let me set the scene for you, because the state of Texas has several layers of border barrier here on the Rio Grande. The first two sets of concertina wire that you see here, the property owner of this property has told us that they have asked the state of Texas to remove it and that Texas refuses to do so.

We have asked the governor's office about that. They have not responded. The next layer of border barrier are the buoys. If we can pan over here to the side, you will see that there are border buoys that have now been deployed. And these are buoys that are anchored to the bottom of the waterway.

Now, this is an international boundary. And you there are treaties between the U.S. and Mexico that govern all of this. And, according to the U.S. State Department, the state of Texas didn't ask for permits before deploying that border barrier.

Now, as I was just saying, there's a group of migrants that just crossed, and you can see them there right now. They are making their way to this property, which, of course, is blocked off by the concertina wire. Now, I have seen in the past migrants use their clothing or other objects to try to protect themselves from the concertina wire to get actually on land.

Right now, you can see that there are several vehicles here and Texas National Guard. Now, regarding all of the allegations that we have heard of, right now, today with these migrants who have just crossed, we have not seen much activity in relationship to what Texas DPS and/or the National Guard, what their interaction is with them, as, at this point, you can take a look and see that the migrants are really just waiting at the moment. Now, top brass at Texas DPS has acknowledged that the number of injuries due to this concertina wire has increased. And that takes me to the Texas State Trooper who blew the whistle, that Trooper that e- mailed his superiors saying that they were given orders to push migrants back into the river and also not to provide them water.

Now, Texas DPS denies that. The governor of Texas says too that that is not what is going on here in the state of Texas. Now, the owners of the property where I'm standing, the ones that say that they have been asking the state of Texas to remove this concertina wire, say that they have witnessed this.

They say that they have been on their property, have watched the National Guard stand here doing nothing while migrants need help. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGALI URBINA, TEXAS LANDOWNER: I asked: "Aren't you all going to help?"

And they just sat there, and they said: "We can't. We can't get onto your property. They told us not to get on the property. They told us not even to give them water."

And I said: "Fine."

[11:20:00]

And then I just turned, turned around, and we just kept helping people out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, the Texas National Guard denies those allegations.

And, Kate, as you were just saying, the U.S. DOJ is assessing the situation. They're working with other federal agencies to figure out exactly what's going on, and DHS saying that, if all of this is true, then this treatment is cruel and inhumane -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Rosa, thank you for being there. And thank you for that -- Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, Kate.

Well, days after U.S. soldier bolted across the DMZ and into North Korea, North Korea remains silent about his whereabouts. Army Private Travis King was supposed to be on a flight back to the U.S. on Tuesday. Instead, he went on a tour of the joint security area inside the demilitarized zone, which divides North and South Korea.

Then he made a run for it across the military demarcation line and into North Korea. Since then, we have learned that King had faced assault charges in South Korea. He was also due to be administratively separated from the military when he returned home to the U.S. But North Korea has still not said anything at all about him or

responded to U.S. outreach, so many questions this morning.

Let's bring in now former North Korea analyst for the Sue Mi Terry.

Sue Mi, great to have you today.

I mean, first, how do you think this young man is being treated? I mean, what types of conditions do you think he's facing right now?

SUE MI TERRY, FORMER CIA ANALYST: It's hard to know, because North Koreans have been also very paranoid about COVID.

So, if they're concerned about that, he will be isolation. It's also different from other Americans that North Koreans have detained when they thought they were already in North Korea, and they just -- they detained them, whereas in he defected to North Korea.

So I think he's -- there's -- he's going to be under investigation. And they're going to spend a lot of time asking a lot of questions, but there might be a different treatment here.

SOLOMON: In what way, do you think?

TERRY: Well, he defected to North Korea.

SOLOMON: Right.

TERRY: So, first of all, it's a propaganda boon for North Korea, right?

SOLOMON: OK.

TERRY: This is somebody who came voluntarily to North Korea, The great socialist country, leaving the United States.

So they don't mind defection to North Korea, right?

SOLOMON: I see.

TERRY: Because, most of times, it's North Korea that's leaving North Korea, fleeing North Korea to come to South Korea.

SOLOMON: So, perhaps, in this example, he may not see a hard labor camp type of situation like we have seen with others in the past.

TERRY: Such as Otto Warmbier, for example, right.

SOLOMON: Right. Right.

Why do you think he would do this?

TERRY: Well, clearly, I mean, this is -- talk about misjudgment. I think he got into a lot of trouble in South Korea, just, as you mentioned, these misdemeanors. He has -- he attacked a South Korean citizen. There's -- he cursed out

police. There's a lot of issues. And he was sent -- being sent back, right? Maybe he was going to be court-martialed. So, obviously, he is a troubled, disgruntled man, but, clearly, misjudgment in a very, very serious way, if he thinks his life is going to be better North Korea.

North Korea is a gigantic prison.

SOLOMON: North Korea still has not said anything about this young man. How do you read that, their silence on this?

TERRY: Well, North Korea and are an impasse, right?

Since the whole summitry and diplomacy of 2018-2019, there has been no communication. North Korea has been -- also just been focused on developing their nuclear missile program. So, they're not interested in coming back to talks anytime soon with the United States.

So, I think they're going to take time and try to assess what the situation is going to be. They don't have any reason to talk to the Americans right now.

SOLOMON: Well, to that end, I mean, it is a particularly sensitive time between relations, certainly, between North Korea and South Korea, but also North Korea and the U.S. right now, with the nuclear missile testing from North Korea, the U.S., for example, having that nuclear-capable submarine in South Korea, and North Korea saying just today, I believe it was, that that was crossing a red line.

I mean, how do the politics of all of this play into this?

TERRY: It's really unfortunate timing, because, as you mentioned, we have U.S. nuclear submarine docked in Busan, South Korea, for the first time in four decades.

Americans and South Koreans are meeting in this nuclear consultative group to really showcase, extend -- strength of extended deterrence and how strong they are in terms of deterrence against North Korean threats. And this is what the Biden administration and Yoon administration wanted to highlight.

But, of course, the story got hijacked by this young man making this really big mistake.

SOLOMON: Yes, before I let you go. I mean, what do you think -- I know you mentioned that North Korea may just -- because he defected, maybe they keep him. Maybe he becomes a propaganda tool, like we have seen in the past.

In order to release him, what do you think they would want?

TERRY: I think there's two scenarios.

They can just say, look, this is a crazy guy, after they found out that he doesn't provide any kind of intelligence value and say, take him. Or they might just keep him, because, in the past, when we had five or six Americans who have defected to North Korea, only one made it out.

So, he could just be staying there for lifetime.

SOLOMON: Sue Mi Terry, great to have you. Thank you -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also on our radar this hour, there are now new questions surrounding Carlee Russell.

The Alabama woman says she was abducted after making a 911 call to report a child wandering an interstate. People have been -- police have been unable to verify her claims since she returned home after going missing. They say no child was reported missing or seen by anyone else.

[11:25:15]

Investigators also flagged some Internet searches in Russell's cell phone, including: "Do you have to pay for an Amber Alert?" So far, Russell has refused further interviews with police.

And Broadway could be going dark as soon as tomorrow. The union representing 1,500 stagehands and other backstage workers is voting today to authorize a strike over labor negotiations. A strike would stop all performances in New York City, plus more than a dozen touring shows across the United States and Canada. Negotiators have until tomorrow night to make a deal and avoid a shutdown -- Rahel.

SOLOMON: Well, coming up for us: He is known for spreading baseless conspiracy theories, and, right now, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is testifying on Capitol Hill. We will fact-check the presidential -- Democratic presidential candidate coming up next.

Plus, a powerful EF-3 tornado ripped through North Carolina, destroying homes and damaging 50,000 pallets of medicine at this Pfizer plant.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]