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Trump Classified Docs Trial Set For May 2024; Investigations Looking Into Whether Murders Occurred In Suspect's Home When Wife, Children Were Away; Harris In Florida To Spotlight Florida's Slavery "Insult"; Sen. Shevrin Jones (D-FL) Discusses About Vice President Harris' Take On Florida's Slavery Insult. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:32]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The date is set, a federal judge has ordered Donald Trump's classified documents trial to begin mid-May, smack dab in the middle of the 2024 election season. How both prosecutors and Trump's defense are preparing.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, no emotions whatsoever. That's how one official is describing the suspect in the Gilgo Beach killings. Plus, new details on where investigators believe most of the crimes happened.

KEILAR: And okay, you've heard us talk about Barbie a lot, but what about Barbenheimer? It is the battle of the blockbusters or maybe it's just the hottest double feature of the summer.

We're following these developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

All right. We are following some new developments in the two special counsel investigations that are facing former president, Trump. First, a trial date now set in Trump's classified documents case.

Today, a federal judge ordering the trial to start in May of next year, right in the middle of the GOP primary calendar. And as a potential Trump indictment looms in the other federal investigation into 2020 election interference, Trump's newest attorney, John Lauro, just gave a possible preview of Trump's legal team's defense. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURO, TRUMP ATTORNEY: There's no need to appear in front of any grand jury right now. President Trump did absolutely nothing wrong. He's done nothing criminal and he's made his case that he was entitled to take these positions as president of the United States when he saw all these election discrepancies and irregularities going on. He did what any president was required to do, because he took an oath.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Senior Crime and Justice Reporter, Katelyn Polantz, and Chief National Affairs Correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, with us now on this.

So, Katelyn, I want you to get started here on the classified documents case. How did the judge pick this particular date, because it does fall at a very interesting point in the political calendar.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, it falls in May, late May, and it's going to be what we know now a five week trial at very least. That's what the Justice Department wants to present their side of the case. And the Justice Department had asked for December. The Trump team, they wanted it - essentially they didn't want a date, they wanted it to be clearly after the election of next year.

But Judge Aileen Cannon, when she set this order, it wasn't just that she said this should start at the end of May next year and picked it out of a hat. She actually backed through all of the dates that she would need and that the parties would need to go through all of the issues in this case and so they have to work through classified issues.

They have to work through what the parameters of the trial are; what are the sort of things you can bring in to the case before a jury; what are the things you can't talk about before a jury, all of that is now structured and there's essentially deadlines, multiple deadlines a month in this case every month leading up to this May date.

Now, of course, dates in court move. It depends often on how firm the judge wants a date to be when they set it. But make no mistake, the Trump team is definitely going to try to tinker with the timing here, either they'll move out the little things in the beginning so that they can push the trial date later or just go full-bore into moving the trial date.

KEILAR: Because what it means is once we get to this point, Jeff, we really should know who the nominees are. The judge also should know whether Donald Trump is going to be the Republican nominee most likely.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: It certainly will be pretty close to that time and here's why, I mean, the vast majority of Republican primaries will be done by mid and late May. There's a couple of states that have their dates set at the beginning of June now, but they may move theirs up.

But I was thinking back to eight years ago in 2016, Donald Trump effectively clinched the nomination around the end of May. But this is coming just two months before the Republican National Convention. So the timing may actually be not all that great for him, because say he does win the nomination, which of course we don't know yet, but just if say he does, heading into general election with this kind of hanging over him also is complicated.

[15:04:59] But the vast majority of primaries will be done, which means that voters will have a say, at least in this case, long before any jurors do.

KEILAR: Would he make the argument if he say we're the nominee or very likely to be? And could he make it credibly that this would really - this date would really interfere with the process?

POLANTZ: Well, he has already argued that, that it shouldn't be something that he should have to do, sit in a trial while he's running for president. Now, one of the things that courts tend to do is they try to divorce politics from what they're doing in court. And the Justice Department had to get in to indict this case before there was a window or a perceived window that you're close to the election, but now it's the hands of the court.

And so it really is going to be up to the judge to determine whether that should factor in or are there enough controls and experience in the judicial system to be able to handle a criminal trial with the seriousness it deserves without the politics being - what governs it.

KEILAR: But if you did look at the politics of the polls, it's not that he's suffering for all of this, for all of these legal cases.

ZELENY: In fact, the opposite. I mean, certainly in fundraising, which is one metric that we can judge by right now, it's been a boon for him. The March indictment was, the June one was as well. This seems to be just - judging by how many fundraising appeals we're getting.

But again, each one of these cases has to be viewed individually and separately. And if there's another one in Georgia next month, potentially we will see how does that impact all of this.

So one thing is clear, which we've known for a long time, but now it's crystal clear that his court cases and his political arguments are intertwined. I mean, the road to the campaign trail goes through several different jurisdictions of the courthouse as well.

KEILAR: Yes, very good point. Jeff, Katelyn, thank you so much. Boris?

SANCHEZ: There are new developments in the Gilgo Beach serial killing investigation. Since the past spring, officials have been operating on the theory that the suspect Rex Heuermann committed the killings inside his Long Island home, where he's lived with his wife of 25 years and their kids. Heuermann has pleaded not guilty to the murder of three of the Gilgo Four, a group of women whose remains were discovered less than six miles from his house along the short stretch of Long Island's Gilgo Beach back in 2010. The police say the investigation now spans four different states.

CNN's Jean Casarez has been following this story for us.

Jean, what are you hearing from sources about what police have uncovered?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, crime scene investigators, they continue to comb that house on Long Island, New York, and this is actually the eighth day of processing what could be the primary crime scene, because they've been working with this theory for a while now that they believe that he committed the murders inside the home. And they do have at this point, according to legal documents, circumstantial information that that occurred.

First of all, in 2022, they learned for the first time that Heuermann used burner phones to talk to his victims and that he would call them to make dates with them. And the cell phone towers show that he made the majority of those calls right near his architectural office on Fifth Avenue and 36th Street at that point of time to those victims. And they had their own personal cell phones.

Well, the cell phone triangulation data shows, and they didn't have this back in 2009, 2010, that those phones went from New York vicinity and New York City to Massapequa, where the family home was, on the date that the victims went missing. They were never seen after that, and we're talking 2008 and 2009.

They also know through travel data and phone data that Heuermann's wife was out of town each and every time one of those three victims went missing. I want you to listen to the sheriff of Suffolk County, Errol Toulon, as he talks about how important the evidence in the home is going to be.

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SHERRIFF ERROL D. TOULON JR., SUFFOLK COUNTY: Every piece of evidence that could be gathered, whether it's from storage containers or from his home, could be valuable not only to the murders that he's currently being charged with, but more importantly, if we can connect them to other murders, whether they were in New York or other locations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now, here's the challenge, these murders happened in 2009 and 2010, it is believed. That is a long time ago. And Boris, if you were trying to find forensic evidence, evidence in the home to link the victims to show they were in that home, that is a challenge at this point of time.

SANCHEZ: Jean Casarez, thank you so much for bringing us that update. We want to go to Mary Ellen O'Toole now. She's a former Senior Profiler for the FBI.

Mary, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. One of the things that really stood out to me in the reporting is this allegation that he potentially carried out these crimes inside his home.

[15:10:06]

Is there precedent for a suspected murderer to carry out crimes with his family nearby or at least living in the same area, but for them not to be aware that anything was going on? MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER: Oh, definitely. I mean, these individuals are known for taking a lot of risk in their crimes. And in fact, they they'll import risk into their crimes to make it actually more exciting, so ...

SANCHEZ: Wow.

O'TOOLE: ... yes, there's precedent for that and this - also these are people that are very arrogant individuals in terms of their personality. So he would have assumed if he's like others, he would have assumed that he cleaned up after himself and that - and people would not be able to detect that something had gone on there.

Plus, I would imagine this is going to come out sooner rather than later, there were areas of that house that very likely were simply off limits to the rest of the family.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

O'TOOLE: In other words, he would have said, don't come there. Don't go in there. That's locked. It's personal. It's my space. Because that's typical in other cases. So I would suspect that that's a probability here.

SANCHEZ: And Mary, what does that and the potential for him to have carried out these crimes inside the home? Tell me about his mentality, about his frame of mind.

O'TOOLE: Well, again, it tells me that he's very confident and it tells me that he's comfortable with risk taking. And the problem with that is with risk taking comes mistakes, but he was very comfortable that he had control of that house and what went on inside that house to the point where he would bring a victim in there and then commit a murder inside that house.

So I think that that's important to understand as part of his personality and it also suggests to me that even though he disposed of the bodies outside, if there are other murder scenes, those will probably be inside as well because it affords him the privacy to spend time with the victims. And in these cases, I think it's particularly important.

SANCHEZ: And Mary, we learned that police in South Carolina towed a truck belonging to Heuermann's brother. What does that suggest to you?

O'TOOLE: Well, it would suggest that there's a possibility or at least law enforcement thinks there is, that he extended his crime sprees or his criminal behavior down to South Carolina and that part of that could have involved using a vehicle that belonged to another family member. And I - and the audience is going to look at that and say, how can you do that to another family member, how can you control that.

But going back to his personality, which is really important to understand, this is not someone, if he's typical like other serial sexual killers, he doesn't care about his other family members. If he's compromised somebody, so be it as far as he's concerned. He is focused on himself. He has no empathy for other people.

And you see that in how they treat their victims. But you also see that in terms of how they treat their family members and how they can compromise family members.

SANCHEZ: And Mary, speaking of being focused on himself, when he was brought in, he reportedly wanted to know whether the murders in his arrest had made the news. That speaks to what you're describing, a sort of level of self-absorption.

O'TOOLE: It really does and the grandiosity that is a part of the traits of a psychopath, the old term was sociopath, but that grandiosity really cannot be underscored enough. It's all about them. It's all about getting the attention, even getting the attention as far as being a suspect in a series of sexual murders. It's attention.

And it's very typical in other serial sexual murder cases that these individuals will follow themselves in the media. And I've even had them - have had them tell me that they're better serial killers than other serial killers out there ...

SANCHEZ: Wow.

O'TOOLE: ... because I've interviewed a number of these people and they want to make sure that I understand they're not just good, but they're really good. And they're even better than some of their counterparts who've been out there killing at the same time. It really is amazing and you have to really get into that personality to really understand what that trait of grandiosity really means.

SANCHEZ: That is such a morbid and twisted perspective. Mary Ellen O'Toole, thanks so much for sharing your expertise with us.

O'TOOLE: You're welcome.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Brianna?

KEILAR: The Florida Board of Education just approved new standards on how black history should be taught. One example, quote, "How slaves developed skills which could be applied for their personal benefit." Vice President Kamala Harris just touched down in Florida to condemn this move.

[15:15:00]

And also today, the Justice Department is threatening legal action against the state of Texas over tactics that the state is taking to stop migrants. The Texas Governor just responding this hour.

And it's a mix of veterans and rookies at the 2023 Women's World Cup and the U.S. is hoping to once again win it all and make history in the process. First up, Vietnam. We have a preview.

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[15:19:28] KEILAR: Vice President Kamala Harris is just moments away from delivering a critical response to Florida's controversial changes to how black history is taught in schools. She is in Jacksonville and is expected to forcefully condemn the state board of education's newly approved set of standards on this topic.

And her visit to Florida is a last minute trip. This is coming on the heels of some fiery comments that she has already made about how the state appears to be trying to rewrite and suppress history.

[15:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery. They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us and we will not stand for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: DeSantis is already attacking the Vice President's comments, accusing the White House of lying to cover up an agenda to indoctrinate students.

Joining me now is Florida State senator, Shevrin Jones, a Democrat. Sir, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us ahead of this visit here. What is important for you to hear from the vice president when she visits Florida today?

SEN. SHEVRIN JONES (D-FL): Well, first, thank you for having me, Brianna. But I also think it's important that the Vice President point out that their commitment - their being by Biden and - President Biden and hers commitment to restore the soul of this nation. When President Biden came in office four (ph) years ago, he made that clear. He wanted to bring this nation back together, away from a party that is continuing to be trying to separate and divide this country, especially what's happening in Florida right now.

And I think you're going to hear a message of unity and I think you're going to hear a message that condemns what the state of Florida has been doing and is doing currently right now with our children and our education system.

KEILAR: What's a little puzzling about what we're hearing from Gov. DeSantis is that these new black history education standards actually seem a bit like a turnaround from him, especially on this issue of the Ocoee massacre. In June of 2020, he signed a bill that in part requires Florida students to learn about the 1920 Election Day riots, the 1920 Ocoee Election Day riots.

Then he signed later a law that approved the Ocoee massacre compensation scholarship for descendants of the Ocoee massacre and for black students residing in the city. What do you think changed?

JONES: I don't think there has been a change. What I think you see is Republicans talking out of both sides of their mouth. Because back in January, this is the same governor that rejected a proposed curriculum for AP African American Studies for being too woke. And his administration went as far to say that this course provides no educational value and then they ended up walking that back and said that teaching African-American history was fine as long as it's not too woke.

But of course, they failed to define what that means. The governor doesn't know what woke mean. No one who's - African black people - African-Americans and historians know what woke is, but they don't know what woke is. They're just saying this to rally up a base and continue to spew the hatred and bigotry that is happening across this country.

KEILAR: Gov. DeSantis also says - and this is another volley that he has in his culture war. He's going to - he's encouraging state officials to investigate Bud Light's parent company for failing, as he puts it, their fiduciary responsibility to stakeholders, because obviously the state pension has some interest in this.

Do you think that's within his purview? Do you think that is inappropriate use of his power?

JONES: First of all, I think that the governor is trying to pull all rabbits out of the hat for his failing campaign that he has right now for him to become president. While the governor is trying to sue Bud Light, we have a failing property insurance crisis that we're dealing with in Florida.

We have a series of issues within our education system like a teacher shortage. We have to still be - we should still be talking about what we're going to do about reading proficiency amongst our young people. None of those issues are being dealt with. The Governor is doing everything but being the governor.

But what he did last legislative session, he changed the law where he can be the governor and run for president at the same time. Right now, Floridians are hurting. People's pocketbooks are hurting. People's wallets are hurting. But the Governor is running for president, attacking everything else, but attaching himself to the right thing they should be dealing with right now, and that is Floridians.

The 22 million people who are in his state right now who need his attention, that he has totally ignored.

KEILAR: He obviously has a base of supporters who like what he is doing. But it is incredibly divisive and we've seen the NAACP issuing a travel advisory warning that Florida is openly hostile toward African-Americans. You have the LGBTQ advocacy group Human Rights Campaign issuing a travel advisory for your state. Do these warnings do you think - do they actually help him politically?

JONES: Well, if Gov. DeSantis believes that his way to power is punching down on individuals, if that's how he thinks he wins, he still loses. You lose because you are totally eliminating individuals inside your own state who call themselves Floridians. And I also will point out one thing, he might think that it's expedient for him to become president, but it is having an economic impact on this state.

[15:25:02]

You hear it coming from a lot of our convention bureaus and you hear it from a lot of our famous tourist spots that's happening right now. It is having an economic impact on the state of Florida. And shame on the governor and the Republicans for continuing down this path.

KEILAR: Well, sir, we really appreciate your time today. Shevrin Jones, thank you so much for being with us. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, Ukrainian president, Zelenskyy, just spoke at the Aspen Security Forum giving an update on the counteroffensive against Russia. His message is next.

And later, Secretary of State Antony Blinken just spoke about the army private who bolted into North Korea. Details in just moments.

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