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CNN Inside Odesa Cathedral Damaged By Russian Strikes; DOJ Deadline Today For TX To Commit To Removing Border Barrier; DeSantis Pitches "Leaner, Insurgent" Campaign To Beat Trump. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 24, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, Ukraine says that the Russians have launched new attacks on locations that could really change the shape of the conflict there, right across the river from Romania, which is of course a NATO country. Also this morning, Ukraine says that it is behind a drone attack in Moscow that blew out the windows on the top of a skyscraper. Those attacks come after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed retaliation for a weekend of relentless strikes by Russian forces. Those are the pictures that you have been looking at the ones in Odesa including damage to an historic cathedral there. CNN's Alex Marquardt reports from the scene.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: President Zelenskyy had said that Russia would feel the retaliation for all the strikes that we've seen here in Odesa. And now Ukraine's Defense Intelligence Directorate claiming responsibility for that overnight drone strike in Moscow, which did do less damage, far less damage than we've seen here in Odesa for the past few days.

We are in the Transfiguration Cathedral. Church officials have asked us to put these helmets on because of all the work that's going on, all the debris that is falling from the roof. I want to show you this corner of the church. This is where there is the most destruction. This is where we are told that the missile or rocket came plunging through the roof going down at least two stories that daylight, that sun coming through the roof, and really brightening up this otherwise dark cathedral.

Over here is the altar. You can see up there those pillars now off to the side, that altar just leaning over. And it really only staying upright because it's leaning up against the wall. And then farther up is the beautiful dome of this cathedral. All of its windows have been blown out. Below that the frescoes have also been knocked down. We've seen large sections of the roof also coming down as these workers seek to clear it.

They say that will take several weeks, but it could be months or years before this cathedral is fully repaired. The nave goes all the way back there. And in the corner, there was a fire. We're told that a shockwave started an electrical fire. Now this church was destroyed in 1936 when Stalin was in power. It was rebuilt when Ukraine got independence and now of course in a significant state of disrepair.

It is attacks like these on civilian infrastructure on buildings that frankly have nothing to do with this conflict that now has President Zelenskyy calling for more air defense support from Western allies for what he calls a full-fledged air shield for Ukraine.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Odesa.

BERMAN: Our thanks to Alex for that. It goes without saying the Cathedral has zero military value. Rahel?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: There's repeating. John, thank you. With us now is former Deputy Director of National Intelligence Beth Sanner. Beth, Ukraine, as we just heard there rarely takes responsibility for attacks on Russia. But is this time? What's the significance of claiming these drone strikes?

BETH SANNER, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, I think that, you know, in the face of all of these attacks, President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian people want to see in return. And even though the strikes in Moscow didn't create a lot of damage, it was right in downtown Moscow, and a pretty famous street, where a lot of ministry defense buildings are located. The cybersecurity headquarters, the Military University, and so bringing the psychological war into the heart of Moscow is part of chipping away at Putin's stability.

SOLOMON: Beth let's stay in Russia now but turn to St. Petersburg, this bilateral meeting between Aleksandr Lukashenko and Putin. What do you make of that? Some of the threads coming out, for example, Lukashenko saying that Wagner has been itching to move to Warsaw. I mean, what do you make of that? Our correspondent earlier said, it's propaganda. But what's the significance of what we're hearing but also where this meeting is taking place?

SANNER: Exactly. So St. Petersburg is, you know, where Putin grew up. That's where he's from, but it's also where Prigozhin is from. And so, St. Petersburg is a place where Putin brought his absolutely closest ally, Lukashenko, the only leader who has absolutely supported Putin every stretch of the way except for sending his own troops into Ukraine.

And so the two of them went to this place called Kronstadt, which is a naval base that has this really important history. And every Russian is taught about this history in school. And in 1921, sorry to take you back into history, but Putin is really into history. In 1921, right after the Russian Revolution, sailors revolted there, challenged the Bolshevik regime, even though they supported the revolution, and they were crushed by none other than Leon Trotsky.

So, Putin and Lukashenko had a nice walk around this now museum area. And we're celebrating the crushing of this rebellion. And I think it's really part of what Putin is doing to show he is in charge, Prigozhin even though he's in Belarus is under the thumb of both of them and he's trying to, you know, reduce the threat that Prigozhin and his idea of challenging central authority started. [11:05:17]

SOLOMON: Beth, let me just ask one final question. Ukraine officials told my colleague Alex Marquardt, that they believe that they will be able to win this war by next year and that they believe that they will actually be admitted to NATO by next year. Do you think that's a realistic timeline?

SANNER: A year is a very, very long time in foreign policy, more than even in dog years. So I, you know, I think that this is part of the really important optimism that the Ukrainian leadership must project. They're under a lot of strain right now. And they have to keep everybody focused in going. It's about uniting the allies too. You know, we all hope they're right. But I think this is a lot about just trying to move forward and be positive.

SOLOMON: Beth Sanner, wonderful to have your expertise. Thank you for being with us today. John?

BERMAN: All right, happening now, a deadline in Texas. In the next few hours, Texas officials must take action to remove razor wire and floating barriers from the Rio Grande River or they face federal legal action. The 1,000 foot barrier stretches across the river on the border near Eagle Pass.

Now Texas leaders say they put it in place to deter illegal crossings. But federal officials say it raises humanitarian concerns. CNN's Rosa Flores is live in Eagle Pass. First though, Priscilla Alvarez at the White House. Priscilla, give us the latest of where things stand. Has the federal government heard from Texas yet?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, John, we're actually getting a statement moments ago from the Texas Governor Greg Abbott, who says he sent a letter to President Joe Biden. He's countering the threats made by the Justice Department that they would file legal action against the state. And he goes on to say in the meantime, Texas will fully utilize its constitutional authority to deal with the crisis you have caused referring to President Biden, Texas will see you in court, Mr. President.

This a quote from this letter that was sent to President Biden, we're getting this right now. Now, because of this response, it is now up to the Justice Department. The ball is in their court. And the President, I'm sorry, the Justice Department has said in their letter on Thursday, that if Texas did not remove the floating barriers, they too were ready to go to court.

So just based on this letter to President Biden based off what we know of the stance by the Justice Department, it does appear that the two will be going to court over this matter. Of course, at the center of the matter is those floating barriers in the Rio Grande, the Justice Department telling Texas, they did not have the authorization to set those up and saying that they cause humanitarian concern, safety concern for migrants, for agents and also may interfere with the federal government response along the border. Now the White House has also condemned these actions saying in a statement just last week, quote Governor Abbott's dangerous and unlawful actions are undermining our effective border enforcement plan and making it hard for CBP to do their jobs of securing the border. Going on to say, the governor's actions are cruel, and putting both migrants and border agents in danger.

John, big picture here, this is an escalation of the ongoing feud between President Joe Biden and Texas Governor Greg Abbott over a very delicate political issue, that being the handling of the U.S.-Mexico border, will now see both sides potentially fight this out in court over who has what authority and how the Texas wants the administration to enforce its federal immigration law and the Justice Department countering that saying it is up to them to enforce immigration law.

BERMAN: The breaking news though, from Priscilla Alvarez just moments ago, a letter received from Texas Governor Greg Abbott, basically saying we will see you in court, indicating that they're not taking those barriers down by any deadline today. They'll let the courts decide when and if the courts hear that. All right, Priscilla standby.

Let's go to Rosa Flores on the scene on the banks of the Rio Grande River in Eagle Pass. Obviously Rosa, we now know that you're not going to see Texas officials breaking down that barrier, at least not before to. What can you tell us about what's happening there?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, I want to show you what we're witnessing here on the border because Governor Greg Abbott has said that these buoys are going to deter illegal immigration. Take a look at your screen. These are women, children, men, some men with their children on their shoulders still making their way to wherever they're going to be processed.

Now they're already on U.S. soil because the middle of the Rio Grande River, that's where the international boundary starts. And you see all these razor wire, all these billions of dollars that have been spent by the state of Texas to deter illegal immigration. And what you're looking at is none of that is working.

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You're seeing the buoys that are floating. And now there's -- I'm not sure exactly what these helicopters are, they look like Blackhawks. But that's what the southern border looks like right now. A lot of the property owners or people that I've talked to here on the border, they say that their side of the border looks like a war zone. It sounds like a war zone.

I want you to take a really quick look, John, at this side of the border, multiple layers of concertina wire. And then look at the Mexican side of the border. It's lush, it's green. That's the contrast that locals here in Eagle Pass always tell me about. They say they miss their side of the river looking like Mexico where they -- when they were able to enjoy the river. They come out here and fish.

And instead what they're faced with is this concertina wire, multiple layers of it. And take a look at this fence, the property owner here, you know how Texas is all about small government and property rights. Well, this property owner doesn't even have access to her riverfront property. Just take a look. This gate is completely barricaded by the state of Texas. I mean, you can't move this thing. It is barricaded with barrels and metal stakes and concertina wire.

So all of the talk, whether it'd be in Washington or in Austin, here in Texas, the people that are caught in the middle are the property owners, the migrants who are now having to walk, whether it be ankle deep water or waist deep water, depending on where they are on the Rio Grande, and billions of dollars of Texas taxpayer money. And nothing really is happening, John, immigration is continuing. And migrants are still making their way to get processed by U.S. immigration authorities.

BERMAN: To be clear, what we're seeing there, Rosa, they're just walking paths, they're just walking below where the barrier is and then crossing somewhere else, right?

FLORES: You're absolutely right. And what the Texas National Guard or Texas DPS asks these migrants to do is to continue walking. And normally John, they would be walking on the dirt. I mean you see a road there and normally that's where they would be walking. Well, this is forcing them to do is simply keep on walking on water in the river.

Again, as you and I were talking about earlier, when the river levels rise, part of that concertina wire is underwater so these migrants would not even be able to see that concertina wire. Again, that's the reason why there's so much criticism about the humanity of this and the humanitarian concerns because imagine you're walking in the water sometimes in the dark, and you're walking on concertina wire. John?

BERMAN: All right, Rosa Flores for us in Eagle Pass. Rosa, keep us posted. Great to have you there. Thank you.

So new this morning, a look inside the efforts to revamp the presidential bid of Ron DeSantis. His team talking to supporters saying as of now we're going to do so much differently.

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And search dogs, ground radars seen at the home of the alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer. What are investigators looking for?

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BERMAN: In New York, investigators searching the home of the Gilgo Beach murder suspect had brought in a police dog and ground penetrating radar with a backhoe now digging in the yard there. The suspect is charged with murdering three women whose remains were found on Long Island's Gilgo Beach and he is a suspect in a fourth death as well.

Alabama's governor has approved a new congressional map with just one majority black district that's despite a court order. The state's Republican controlled legislature passed the map. Earlier Friday, Democrats blasted Republicans for ignoring a director from a three judge panel to create two majority black districts are both something close to it. The MAT note now goes before a federal court for approval. A hearing is set for mid-August. Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right, John, thank you. Donald Trump's potential third indictment could drop at any moment as soon as this week. And over the weekend we learned the special counsel's office contacted Georgia Governor Brian Kemp. Kemp, was reportedly pressured by Trump to overturn his 2020 loss in the state.

Let's bring in CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez. He joins us now. So Evan, what more can we glean from this as we await any potential indictment details?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, what it indicates is that there's still a lot of work that the Special Counsel's Jack Smith and his team are still doing. So despite the fact that the foreign president received a notification, essentially a warning from the special counsel that an indictment is imminent. He got a target letter now more than a week ago. And as you pointed out, we're now just waiting the specialty -- at this time tomorrow, we expect that the grand jury that is overseeing a lot of the evidence in this investigation, they're going to be back at the courthouse, at the federal courthouse.

They typically meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays so that means we're all on watch. We're all on indictment watch should that happen again in the next couple of days. But as you pointed out Brian Kemp, the Georgia Governor, got an outreach from a Jack Smith's office in recent weeks. We know that Jack's -- that Brian Kemp was, of course, the governor who received a lot of the pressure from the former president and his allies to try to find a way to overturn those Georgia, the Georgia election results and to try to keep the former president in power.

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So that goes to one of the big, big parts of this investigation that we know is at the center of it, which is the effort to overturn those election results in those key states, seven battleground states. And so now we wait to see whether that is part of this indictment that we expect against the former president and whether any of his allies end up being also indicted. Rahel?

SOLOMON: Evan Perez live for us in D.C., Evan, thank you. John?

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, the Ron DeSantis reset. CNN has confirmed reporting from "The New York Times" and "Politico" that the DeSantis campaign told donors at a Utah retreat this weekend that they need to do things differently. According to "The New York Times," quote, his advisors are promising to reorient the DeSantis candidacy as an insurgent run and remake it into a leaner, meaner operation, this is days after the first public glimpse into his political finances showed unsustainable levels of spending.

With us now is senior columnist at The Daily Beast, Matt Lewis. He's also the author of the new book, "Filthy Rich Politicians: The Swamp Creatures, Latte Liberals, and Ruling-Class Elites Cashing in on America." My friend Matt Lewis, now congratulations on the new book. What do you make of this idea that a campaign just resets midway through? Is it the campaign or is it the candidate?

MATT LEWIS, CONSERVATIVE WRITER: Well, look, it has worked in the past, right? John Kerry's campaign faltering in 2004, they were able to get that straightened out. John McCain's campaign in 2008, faltering, they were able to finally get their footing and win the nomination. But I think this is just, uh, not analogous to that, right? I mean, obviously, they weren't running against Donald Trump, a former president of the United States.

Fundamentally, I think the problem is just Ron DeSantis. You know, there's the Yogi Berra line. If nobody wants to come out to the ballpark, there's nothing you can do to stop them. And I think likewise with Ron DeSantis, like, if nobody wants to vote for you, there's nothing you can do to stop him. I just I think it's a likability problem. And you can't fire the candidate, right. So you fire the staff, and you try to do what you can.

BERMAN: So there's an interesting overlap in some of the reporting with your new book, which is right over your left shoulder, "Fealty With Politicians." "The Times" reports, quote, The challenge for Mr. DeSantis, and relying so heavily on bigger donors is twofold. And it means that he must travel the country extensively to attend fundraisers to gather their larger checks, and that those big donors cannot give to him more than once. And that the governor and his wife prefer to travel by private planes, it adds significant costs and cuts into the net money raised when crisscrossing the nation for fundraisers.

This is about DeSantis' fundraising problems, but who doesn't prefer to travel on private jets, Matt? It turns out, this is a thing from politicians. They get a taste for it. Yes?

LEWIS: Absolutely. And you know, Ron DeSantis, interestingly, was worth only about $300,000, I think, $319,000 as of last year. And then three weeks ago or something like that, he filed his disclosure. He's now a millionaire, thanks to the book deal that he got, of course, thanks to his platform, the high profile political platform he has as governor of Florida and as a presidential candidate.

But yes, John, you're right. I mean, I think that people who run for office and certainly who get elected, want to live a lifestyle, I think it's the reason why they stick around forever. They -- it's hard to get them to go, you know, the founders had the vision that people would leave the farm and come to Washington to serve.

And now I think people would rather buy the farm than go back to the farm. And part of it is, is that lifestyle. And, you know, John McCain back to him in 2008, at a certain point, he was flying commercial, carrying his own bags at the airport. And he was able to turn it around. So never say never. But I would not -- I don't have high hopes for this this reboot. BERMAN: You know, by the way, John McCain who was comfortably wealthy, you know, by the way, yes, he was flying commercial. Mitt Romney flew commercial obviously comfortably wealthy as well. Your book you write, no, the rich get elected, and the elected get rich, which is a heck of a phrase there. Do you have any sense Matt, though, if you talk about the most successful populist politicians who might appeal to the quote unquote, mass. I mean Donald Trump is supposed to have been this populist candidate yet he also was rich. Why? Why that sort of dichotomy?

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LEWIS: That's right. Well, it is ironic that oftentimes this happens, that populist oftentimes do not come from the working class. They come from, you know, even FDR and Theodore Roosevelt was a traitor to his cast. So there's nothing new. But I do think there's some hypocrisy at play.

And my book, I have two chapters that sort of touch on this, one is about latte liberals, and one is about Ivy League populist. And Donald Trump I think would fit into the Ivy League populist category, right? But hey, the Republican Party is full of them. Ted Cruz is married to a Goldman Sachs executive and he's an Ivy League and he's a member of the most exclusive club in, you know, in America, the U.S. Senate, there's J.D. Vance and Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, so many of these Republicans who are kind of casting themselves as, you know, Joe Sixpack defenders of the working class, who are by definition, I would say elites.

BERMAN: Matt Lewis is great to speak with you. The book which is behind, you know, "Filthy Rich Politicians," what a great subject. Thank you so much for being with us. All the best.

LEWIS: Thank you. Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right, John. We'll continue to follow major developments out of Israel this morning where protests have erupted. After right wing lawmakers passed the first part of the government's plan to weaken the power of the country's courts. It is a historic turning point for the country. Protesters say that the move could turn Israel into a dictatorship, while proponents claim that the reforms are necessary to rebalance powers between the branches of government.

I want to bring in again CNN's Hadas Gold. She is live in Jerusalem. Hadas, this is an issue that has really upset a lot of the protesters there. You had been talking to some of them. What are they saying?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of them are angry after this legislation passed today, because I think there was maybe still some hope that in the last minute, there would be a bit of negotiations, that they would delay the vote somehow, that maybe there'd be a compromise legislation of some kind. To remind you, this legislation what it does is it would strip the Supreme Court's ability of stopping government actions that they deem unreasonable. There's no constitution in Israel. So a lot of things are based off of law and previous decisions by the Supreme Court. But the Supreme Court is also the only check on power on government power, because of the way the parliamentary and the executive system is set up here. So for many of these protesters, they really fear what this means. They fear this means better government power for the government to do whatever it pleases. They fear what this means for, like, for rights here, for freedom of speech, for freedom of religion and the like.

But these protesters here, they're angry, they're disappointed but they also say that they're not going home. One of their chances we will not give up. We will not give up until it gets better. We've heard the speakers behind me on the stage. We are just right outside Supreme Court, where protesters have been milling about now for hours. They're calling on people to stay in the streets to continue protesting.

We are seeing protesters taking to the highway around Jerusalem. We know that Israeli police have used what's called skunk water, this is foul smelling water, and I can tell you that I am getting walks away right now. It does not smell very good. We also know that protests are taking to the streets of Tel Aviv and they say that they will continue to be coming out.

Now that vote was 64 to zero. And the reason it was zero is that with all the opposition lawmakers walked off the floor. We are seeing now the results of this. And the stock market is falling a bit. The major -- the biggest labor unit here is threatening to strike. And now there's a question of all those Israeli military reservists who said that they will not serve if this legislation passes.

Now the question will be will they be arrested for refusing to serve and also what will happen if another major conflict breaks out and they don't get into those fighter jets or get into those tanks. Rahel?

SOLOMON: Yes. It certainly has been a volatile time in Israel. Hadas Gold you've been following these protests from the very beginning, thanks for being out there for us, keep us posted.

And coming up for us, a review board in Ohio now looking into the moment a black man was attacked by a police canine even though he was unarmed and surrendering at the time.

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And we have also learned that conversations have now begun with North Korea over the U.S. soldier who deliberately ran into the country last week. We'll be right back.