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Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) Uninjured After Car Accident in Tennessee; Grand Jury Expected to Meet as Possible Third Trump Indictment Looms; Rep. Kevin McCarthy Makes Most Direct Impeachment Threat Against Biden. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 25, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: Special Counsel Jack Smith now has several documents tied to former Trump Attorney Rudy Giuliani and his team that tried to find fraud after the 2020 election. How it could play into a potential indictment against the former president.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A woman who says she wanted a date with the suspected Gilgo Beach serial killer now speaking to CNN about her chilling encounter.

Sara and Kate are off today. I'm John Berman with Rahel Solomon. This is CNN News Central.

We do start with breaking news. We learned a short time ago that Florida governor and Republican presidential candidate, Ron DeSantis, was involved in a car accident while on the fundraising circuit in Tennessee. We're getting some new details about what happened and about his condition.

Let's get right to CNN Steve Contorno covering the DeSantis campaign. Steve, what are you learning?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: John, we are still waiting for more details from the DeSantis campaign and local authorities about what actually happened in this accident. But here's what we know so far. The governor was traveling to an event in Chattanooga when he was involved -- when a vehicle he was in was involved in a car accident.

Now, we are told that the governor is okay and his staff are okay, but we still are trying to figure out what exactly happened, who is at fault, and all those sorts of details.

We do know the governor was traveling in Tennessee today to appear at a bunch of fundraising events. He had three scheduled in the state.

Fundraising, of course, is an important part of his campaign. He is trying to build up the funds to take on former President Donald Trump.

His campaign released a statement to us this morning about the incident, and it said, quote, this morning, the governor was in a car accident while traveling to an event in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He and his team are uninjured. We appreciate the prayers and well wishes of the nation for his continued protection while on the campaign trail.

Now, it's not clear exactly how many vehicles were involved in this accident, but I know from covering the governor that he often travels with a pretty large security presence. He's usually in and out of large black SUVs. He goes with staff, he goes with security. There's usually vehicles in front of him, behind him. So, that's sort of the size of the operation. And we're still waiting more details, but, of course, most important thing so far is that the governor is okay. And that seems to be mostly positive details coming from the campaign so far.

BERMAN: The governor of the staff okay. Any word yet if there are possible other injuries beyond the DeSantis team in this incident, Steve?

CONTORNO: We're making calls to authorities in Tennessee to get those kind of details. We're hoping to get a response back on that within the hour. And if I do, I'll come back on and let you know, John.

BERMAN: All right, Steve, get back to work. We do appreciate the update. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. Governor DeSantis and his staff okay after a car accident in Tennessee this morning. Thank you. Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right, John. Will the twice impeached, twice arrested former president of the United States to be indicted again? Well, we could find out as soon as today. The grand jury that could hand up that third indictment against former President Trump is meeting today, and it's happening as we have new details about what Special Counsel Jack Smith is focusing on.

Overnight, CNN has learned that the special counsel has a new set of documents from former Trump Attorney Rudy Giuliani's team, the same team that tried to find fraud after the 2020 election. And they appear to include affidavits claiming there were widespread, quote, irregularities, and also analysis supposedly revealing fraudulent activities.

I want to bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz, CNN's senior crime and justice reporter. Katelyn, I want to start, though, with the grand jury because you're outside of court. What are you seeing? What are you watching for?

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KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, everybody's at work today special counsel's office, prosecutors, the courthouse, other grand jury. But we have no indication yet today, Rahel, that the grand jury that the special counsel's office has been using for some time to look at January 6th, Donald Trump and the 2020 election, that that specific grand jury has convened today. But if they do, the day is still pretty young. And if they do, any time that they are meeting is a time where they could be asked to review an indictment or even look at additional evidence.

And you mentioned those new documents that the special counsel's office now has. That's a pretty significant trove of information. And we don't know what the Special Counsel's Office will find in that or what they will want to do with that, as they're looking as a possible case here. That's because those documents come from the group of people that Rudy Giuliani was working with most closely to try and perpetuate this idea of election fraud across the country that was just not founded.

And the reason that those documents had been held back was because the Trump campaign did not want to turn them over. Bernie Kerik, a close associate of Rudy Giuliani, had those documents, was not turning them over to anyone, including Congress, when they asked for them, and then just recently, over the weekend, became willing to turn them over because the Trump campaign decided, yes, it was time they would have to turn them over.

SOLOMON: Katelyn, let me also bring up this other new CNN reporting about this early November 2020 -- early 2020 meeting, rather, where Trump actually praised election security, because that's also some new CNN reporting that Jack Smith might find interesting.

POLANTZ: Yes. And this is another aspect of the investigation. There are so many pieces of this investigation that could come together for a possible indictment. And in this particular aspect, Sean Lyngaas here at CNN was able, to find out with a bunch of other reporters here working with him that there was a meeting in February 2020 when Donald Trump, as president, at the time, was briefed by senior national security officials about how secure they believed the election was going to be.

They believed it was going to be very secure. They were quite confident in that. Trump was very receptive to that idea, apparently, in this meeting, and even wanted them to hold a press conference about it, to take credit for the work that they were doing to make sure that paper ballots and other aspects of the election would be so secure for the American public.

Now, the special counsel's office has heard some information about that, and it's not totally clear why they want to know that. But if you couple it with what Trump said, even two months later, he was talking about how there could be fraud and how there may not be reason to believe and have faith in the election.

SOLOMON: It's really fascinating as we continue to learn about new evidence, as we continue to learn about new interviews and this potential indictment perhaps coming at any moment now. So much to watch. Katelyn Polantz, great to have you outside of the courthouse watching it for us. Thank you, John?

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy made his most direct impeachment threat against President Biden, telling Fox that the Republican investigation of Biden's alleged involvement with his son's business dealings while he was vice president is rising to the level of an impeachment inquiry. CNN's Manu Raju with us now. This language was inching ever closer, Manu. What did you hear there?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the most explicit threat yet. This is something also not to take lightly. It is very rare for a president to be impeached. In fact, just three in American history have been impeached. Donald Trump was the only one who could get impeached twice. If Joe Biden is impeached, he would be the fourth, and Republicans making clear that they potentially could do just that, that after Kevin McCarthy indicating that an impeachment inquiry could be launched.

That is a first step in moving ahead and formally charging a president with committing high crimes or misdemeanors, the allegation here that Joe Biden was involved with his son, Hunter's business dealings while as vice president, including an unverified allegation from an FBI informant that Joe Biden was involved in some sort of bribery scandal while serving as vice president.

Now, the White House has dismissed all of this and said that the president was not involved with his son's business dealings and said that the Republicans are mounting, pushing forward with what they call a political stunt.

But, nevertheless, the speaker indicating last night that an impeachment inquiry could be formally opened sometime in the near future.

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REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): We've only followed where the information has taken us, but this is rising to the level of impeachment inquiry, which provides Congress the strongest power to get the rest of the knowledge and information needed.

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RAJU: Now, there has been growing pressure on the right flank of Kevin McCarthy's conference to go ahead and move ahead with some sort of impeachment proceeding, whether it's against Joe Biden or against cabinet officials, like Alejandro Mayorkas of the Homeland Security Department or Merrick Garland, who leads the Justice Department. But right now the focus appears to be on Joe Biden.

But John, that will take some time to play out. It probably would not happen until the fall. And to formally impeached for president would require a majority of the House, meaning Kevin McCarthy would have to lose no more than four Republican votes to move forward.

So, just a lot of questions about whether they can pull this off, but a major threat there from the speaker of the House.

BERMAN: Yes, clearly intentionally dangling that notion out, wanting people to hear it. We'll see what happens next. Manu Raju, thank you very much. Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right. John, thank you. Republican Senator Mitt Romney this morning calling on GOP mega donors and supporters to help shrink the field of presidential candidates and prevent Donald Trump from winning the nomination. Romney writing in an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal saying so-called no hope candidates should drop out earlier and endorse the person with the best chance of defeating Trump.

Joining us now, Washington Bureau Chief for the Boston Globe Jackie Kucinich and CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon. Welcome to you both.

Jackie, I want to start with you and turn to this op-ed. So, the decision date that Mitt Romney cites is February 26th that, at that point, those candidates should drop out if they are no hope candidates, as he calls them. Do you believe donors, do you believe candidates will actually listen to Romney?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So, I think this is -- there's an assumption here that he's operating under that any of these candidates will be able to differentiate themselves from the former president. Right now, you have a field that doesn't seem to want to criticize him, with the exception of Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson, and be able to leap ahead in a way to even get close to the former president.

In several of these early states, he has such a commanding lead that when you do the math, it actually is hard for any of these candidates to touch him. Some of them are in the -- most of them are in the single digits. So, there's a lot of time between now and then, but it seems like he's leaping ahead in the assumption that, you know, not donors, voters are going to want something else.

SOLOMON: John, let's stick with that theme, the math here, right? Because that seems to be Romney's concern, that with too many candidates, it splits the non-Trump vote, giving Trump the plurality. Romney, clearly not a Trump fan, he writes in the op-ed, our party and our country need a nominee with character driven by something greater than revenge and ego, preferably from the next generation.

So, John, which candidate is that? I mean, who needs to say, who needs to go in your opinion?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, obviously that's for the Republican Party to decide. But Romney is making an important point. And he's taking a note from Democrats who had the discipline to do that after South Carolina, where the field really thinned and paved the way for Biden, albeit Bernie Sanders, a real duality, clear contrast there. But, basically, folks saying, you know, Biden has got the best chance to beat Donald Trump, let's coalesce behind him, after a crucial number of contests.

I think, look, Chris Christie is doing the best job of drawing a clear contrast. He has the charisma of commonsense and his convictions. More folks can take a note from him than that. I wouldn't count out Tim Scott. I think a lot of Republican voters like the fact that he's an optimistic figure selling an optimistic vision, which is the opposite of what Donald Trump does.

And there's some standouts in this field, but they should take the note from Mitt Romney. This is about math. And while the RNC can adjust its own rules by October 1st by making it more proportional, less winner take all, to Jackie's point, Trump's in poll position right now. And the Republicans will need to really window that field to offer a couple of clear choices.

SOLOMON: Yes, it's interesting. I mean, some will say, watch the space. Watch Tim Scott, because he seems to be quite popular or at least favorable to some voters.

JOHN, I want to switch gears a bit. Speaker McCarthy said that the House's investigation into business dealings by Biden family members is, quote, rising to the level of impeachment inquiry. He said that the investigation would provide the House the strongest power to get the rest of the knowledge and information. Does he go forward with this? I mean, what do you think?

AVLON: I think he's trying to curry favor and corral support among his far right. He's trying to walk and dance by saying he's open to impeachment without committing himself to impeachment, because there's no evidence of anything that rises to remotely to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. Getting more information on business dealings in the Biden family, that's a legitimate pursuit, but it can be done without the threat of impeachment, which really is just play to the base politics that doesn't have anything resembling the kind of clear constitutional standards we've seen in the previous three, four cases.

SOLOMON: Jackie, how do you square this with the fact that McCarthy killed a right wing effort to hold the House vote on impeaching Biden over his border policies just last month?

KUCINICH: I agree with John. I think this is a play to his right. Honestly, this sounds like a fundraising pitch to me that he could put it in email and blast out and get some more small donors to donate to House Republicans. But he keeps these irons in the fire to make sure that the right is happy with him.

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So, I can't imagine if any more of that at this point. To John's point, there hasn't been any sort of evidence that we've seen that this would rise to that level. And not to mention he's got those Republicans who were elected from districts where Biden won, that this would be a pretty impossible vote for them, if it ever have happened at all.

SOLOMON: Yes. I mean, it would certainly put more centrist members of the GOP in a really difficult position if this were come to the House floor. Jackie Kucinich, John Avlon, thank you both. John?

BERMAN: All right. A Delta plane with a hole in its nose gear, somewhere where it's not supposed to be, details on what caused that and what it meant for the passengers on board.

The officer who released a dog on an unarmed black man in Ohio has been put on paid leave. We have new information on the investigation.

Texas is refusing to remove its border barriers in the Rio Grande even as the federal government has sued. What is next in this showdown?

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. The police chief in Circleville, Ohio, says that the officer involved, who released a canine police dog on an unarmed black man, has now been put on paid administrative leave. The chief said that the leave was part of the process of its investigation. He also added that the Use of Force Review Board is now looking at the incident.

I want to bring in CNN's Isabel Rosales. She is in Circleville, Ohio. Isabel, what can you tell us? What's the latest here?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Rahel, good morning to you. Right, so this all started on July 4th. We know this from a case report released by the Ohio State Highway Patrol. And this started with a motor carrier enforcement inspector who noticed Jadarrius Rose driving in the semi who had a missing mud flap, a missing rear mud flap.

So, he tries to pull him over, but Rose, according to the case report and we see in the video, does not stop. So, he calls for backup, and then a chase ensues, at some point, stop sticks are used. And we do eventually see Rose coming to a stop and then continuing on.

And that is when he gets on the phone with 911. We hear him talking to a dispatcher, saying that he feels unsafe stopping because the officers had him surrounded with guns, that he didn't know why they were attempting to stop him in the first place. Eventually, he does finally stop.

He gets out of the car with his hands up. He's again surrounded. And we hear a state trooper not only giving him commands, but also to a different officer, an officer for the Circleville Police Department, telling him, hey, do not release that dog while Rose's hands are up.

Despite those repeated warnings, and it's not clear here if that state trooper was heard, the officer, who we now know as Ryan Speakman, does release the dog. Watch.

We do have Mitchell Christian, who is a canine expert, he's a certified police instructor who reviewed the video of that dog being sent out to Rose. And he told us what his thoughts were about that video with his professional eye. Listen.

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MITCHELL CHRISTIAN, OWNER, CHRISTIAN K-9 ACADEMY: So, with that there, in that position to deploy the dog, it's probably not a good decision to be made there because the guy was clearly on his knees, hands were up. ROSALES: How egregious is it, in your opinion?

CHRISTIAN: It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. It's not indicative to what a canine handler should do in that scenario, to be honest. It's not good. It's not a good look for the handlers out there.

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ROSALES: And Christian is a certified police canine instructor. But, to be clear, he did not instruct Officer Speakman or the Circleville Police Department.

We did also receive a statement from the police chief here, Shawn Baer, who says, quote, we take all such incidents and the actions of our officers very seriously.

Right now, the actions of that officer is under review by Use of Force Review Board. Those findings are elected to be out the week of July 31st. Rahel?

SOLOMON: Isabel, great to have you. I mean, I appreciate the context that this person, this trainer that you spoke to was not necessarily connected to the police department, but great, nonetheless, because I think the question beyond just, did the officer hear what the trooper said, when he said, do not release the dog, with his hands up, was the question of, well, what is the standard for releasing a canine dog? Isabel Rosales, great to have you. Thank you. John?

BERMAN: This morning, police searching the home of the Gilgo Beach serial killing suspects say there was no soundproof room found on the property. They were also using ground penetrating radar on a backhoe in their search of the backyard. And now a woman who says she went on a date with the suspect in 2015 is speaking to CNN about her chilling encounter.

CNN's Jean Casarez on the scene with the very latest. Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is a really busy scene out here this morning. I mean, you just feel it. A lot is going on. There's a lot of media. There are helicopters above me, as you can see, the police presence behind me, very strong, all of the official vehicles. And right beyond those vehicles is the house. And that is what is being processed today, another day of this crime scene processing.

They're saying that they are going to be finished, possibly today, maybe a few more days.

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But they had told us yesterday, a source had told CNN that they had finished with the processing of the house itself, but it was the garage much and the attic they were onto.

Now, we also heard from the police yesterday that they have taken a monumentous amount of material out of that home. And we do know that today, once the vehicles pulled up, they started taking things inside the home. And so it was though they were setting up for all of this.

Now, while this processing is going on and is continuing to get every single bit of potential evidence they can, someone stepped forward to CNN last night. It was Nikkie Brass. She is someone that had actually gone on a date with Rex Heuermann back in 2015. She says at the time she was an escort.

They went to dinner in Port Jefferson, which is about 30-plus miles away from Massapequa. It is on the Long Island area. And she said that it was a normal date. They were talking and everything was fine. All of a sudden, Rex Heuermann changes the conversation to the Gilgo Beach murders. Take a listen.

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NIKKIE BRASS, SAYS SHE WENT ON DATE WITH REX HEUERMANN: He seemed almost like too excited to talk about it. And then once he did start talking about it, it didn't seem like a true crime fan who just knows information they've seen on T.V. or read. It seemed like somebody who's reliving it. Like he had this look in his eye, like he -- as he was telling it, he was reliving it in his mind.

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CASAREZ: Nikkie Brass says she got such a horrible feeling from that conversation. She stopped the date. She didn't continue with of it.

But she says the reason she is coming out now is that she believes there are other women that got away from him and she wants them to come forward. She doesn't want them to hold back and be scared. She's doing that in essence as a role model that can help others get the courage to come out.

Now, I want to let you know, we have just learned that the District attorney of Suffolk County is going to have a press conference, it is believed, around the noontime hour today. That is highly unusual for a presser at the crime scene, the alleged crime scene of where possibly murders took place inside the home. But we'll be staying here, and we'll let you know exactly what he says.

BERMAN: Oh, that is very interesting. You wonder if there could be still more charges. We'll have to wait and see. Gene Casarez, thank you so much for being there. Rahel?

SOLOMON: Well, John, coming up for us, Russians recruited to fight against Ukraine facing high mortality rates firsthand accounts in a rare and exclusive CNN interview.

And they are wildly popular drugs for diabetes and weight loss, but doctors are also concerned about new side effects, including stomach paralysis.

We'll be right back.

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