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Son of LeBron James Suffers Cardiac Arrest; Trump Indictment Timeline?. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 25, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:22]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: We are waiting to see if the federal grand jury in the 2020 election probe will meet this hour. If they do, a vote could happen as soon as today on indicting Donald Trump.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: Sixty-five years after his brutal murder, a national monument will soon honor the life and painful legacy of Emmett Till.

BERMAN: Commander in teeth, the first dog, Commander, accused in a new round of biting.

Sara and Kate have the day off. I'm John Berman with Rahel Solomon. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SOLOMON: Well, as soon as today, former President Donald Trump could face yet another indictment. The grand jury that would ultimately vote on that, well, they're expected to meet today. And all of this comes as CNN has learned that special counsel Jack Smith has new documents to pore over, and they include papers from former Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani's team, the same team that tried to find fraud after the 2020 election.

The documents appear to include affidavits claiming that there were widespread irregularities and analysis supposedly revealing fraudulent activities.

I want to now bring in CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid.

So, Paula, clearly Jack Smith's team still has more documents to review. What does this tell us perhaps about a potential indictment timeline?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, they can certainly indict someone and then continue their investigation. That's exactly what the special counsel team did in the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation.

They indicted former President Trump and his aide Walt Nauta, and then they continued investigating, even sending at least one new target letter.

So, with the January 6 case, here's what we know, Rahel. We know that the grand jury usually meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays. But our producer Casey Gannon is on the ground over there at the court. She has covered this for months. She knows all the players over there. She's very familiar with how this works.

And, at this point, she has not seen the grand jury come in today. So that suggests they may be coming in later today, or they may not be meeting today. But, look, even if the grand jury is not there, even if prosecutors are not presenting new evidence or a possible indictment, they do have other things to work on, like those documents you mentioned.

In the past 48 hours, the special counsel has received thousands of documents from the legal team headed by Rudy Giuliani that was assembled after the election to try to find evidence of this alleged fraud. Now, these documents came from former New York Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik.

He has been in conversations with a special counsel about a potential interview. And CNN obtained many of these documents last night. A team of us went through them. And, Rahel, after reviewing them, it doesn't appear that this is the kind of evidence that you would have to complete a review of before charging former President Trump.

This is not like the Mar-a-Lago recording. This is nothing that speaks directly to the heart of their case. Now, in addition to going through this document -- these documents -- we also know they have at least three witness interviews over the next few weeks.

SOLOMON: Paula Reid, we will check back with you throughout the day.

Paula Reid, thank you so much -- John.

BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news. It involves Bronny James, the 19-year-old son of NBA -- four-time NBA champion LeBron James.

We are getting word that Bronny James, who is going to be a freshman basketball player at USC, suffered cardiac arrest while at a practice yesterday.

Let me read a statement that was just provided to us by the family. It says: "Yesterday, while practicing, Bronny James suffered a cardiac arrest. Medical staff was able to treat Bronny Bronny and take him to the hospital. He is now in stable condition and no longer in the ICU. We ask for respect and privacy for the James family. And we will update the media when there is more information.

"LeBron and Savannah," the parents of Bronny," wish to publicly send their deepest thanks and appreciation to the USC medical and athletic staff for their incredible work and dedication to the safety of their athletes.

So, cardiac arrest while at a practice yesterday,importantly and crucially, before we have any more discussion, resting comfortably, no longer in the ICU.

Let's get right to CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, you have now seen the same -- Andy Scholes, I'm told, is with us as well.

Sanjay, you have now seen this statement. Give us a sense of what you see here, what this means to you.

[11:05:02]

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so he's 18 years old

It sounds like he had this sudden cardiac arrest. There was a very fast, it sounds like, resuscitation, taken to the hospital. But, as you point out, given the fact that he was in the intensive care unit, but was then able to leave the intensive care unit and is on a general care floor, that -- that is obviously the most important sort of headline there.

Obviously, the cardiac arrest, what exactly triggered that, what caused that, that's what the doctors are going to be sort of investigating over the next several days. This is rare. We know that a few thousand people who are young athletes do suffer sudden cardiac arrest every year.

There's all sorts of different reasons that can happen, electrical abnormalities of the heart. We know for example, with Damar Hamlin, it was related to something known as cordis commotio, which is a blow to the chest.

Well, we don't know what happens specifically with Bronny James. But in any given year, this does happen thousands of times. Sometimes, it can be a structural abnormality of the heart that was never really recognized until now, wasn't recognized until someone actually first has a problem with it.

It could be an electrical problem with the heart, again, that was unrecognized until now. So we will get more of those details. But, again, you -- the most important thing, thankfully, is that he appears to have been resuscitated successfully.

And in terms of how doctors are looking at him now, they think that he is stable enough to not need intensive care at this point, which is also good news.

SOLOMON: Yes, it certainly was good to hear his family say that.

Andy, I want to bring you into the conversation. I mean, just reminds us. I mean, Bronny is young, but he is an incredible athlete. He had recently committed to USC. Just remind us of just the type of athlete we're talking about here.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, LeBron James' son, of course, we expect him to be great at basketball.

And he starred at Sierra Canyon in high school. And he was in a McDonald's All-American, competed in a slam dunk contest. So, Bronny James has played hundreds of thousands of minutes of basketball, and at a very high level at the high school level. He was going to USC to be a freshman.

Many thought, if it went well that freshman year there with the Trojans, that he could make the jump to the NBA. And we have heard LeBron say for years now that it's one of his dreams to one day play with Bronny in his final seasons.

Of course, now you -- we were going to have to wait to see if that was going to happen anyways. But, at this point, we wish the -- we wish the best for Bronny and hope he's doing well, and because he's -- he's a rising star in basketball, especially in the college ranks.

People are going to definitely be filling the seats there at USC to watch him play. And it's -- we hate to see something like this happen, and we certainly hope that he's going to be OK.

BERMAN: Sanjay, again, in terms of the actual medical information we know, it said cardiac arrest.

You mentioned Damar Hamlin, and that was something specific that happened in practice after being hit in the chest. Basketball fans of my age will know the names Hank Gathers and Reggie Lewis. And those two, we believe, were vastly different -- so I'm going to look at you over here -- vastly different circumstances, Sanjay.

So, cardiac arrest, what exactly does that mean, as compared to a heart attack or heart failure?

GUPTA: Yes, good question.

So, as a sudden cardiac arrest, the heart stops beating. That can be different than, for example, a heart attack where there's a period of time where the heart is not getting enough blood flow. And as a result of that lack of blood flow, it leads to damage to the muscle, which can lead to the muscle stop beating as well.

So -- but sudden cardiac arrest, sometimes, there's no clear-cut, underlying problem. Now, one thing we will say is that you have to distinguish between people who are older, over the age of 35, for example, versus younger.

And the causes of cardiac arrest in younger people are going to be different. And people who are older, it typically is more related to blood vessels that go to the heart. With younger people, there's a condition known as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which is a big, big term.

But, basically, what that means is some of the muscles of the heart are -- have in some ways grown too large. And as a result of that, they're not beating as efficiently. There can be an electrical problem with the heart. The electrical signal that goes to the heart allows the chambers of the heart to beat in a very coordinated fashion.

If there's an electrical problem with the heart, that can cause a sudden cardiac arrest as well. What ends up making all the difference -- and, again, we don't know specifically what happened to him at the scene or in the hospital, but doing defibrillation to essentially restore that electrical pattern to the heart, that can make all the difference.

We -- and we, again, heard that with Damar Hamlin as well. As you pointed out correctly, with Damar's case, it was a blow to the chest that caused this problem. There's no indication that that's what happened here with Bronny James, but we will get some more of those details.

[11:10:12]

I do want to point out, to Andy's point, people who have sudden cardiac arrest, if they can figure out what caused this, there is a possibility they could address this, and that he would go on to play and be able to play at the level that he was playing before.

Again, that's speculative at this point. They have got these investigations to do medically to sort that out. But they will do that over the next few days. And we should have clear answers at that point.

BERMAN: Sanjay, is there anything about a workout, whether it's dehydration or exhaustion or overexertion, that contribute to the likelihood of something like this happening in a practice?

GUPTA: Yes. I think the answer that is yes.

We were just looking at some of that data, in fact, as this news started to break. First of all, it tends to happen more in men than women. Tends to happen in athletes who are competing at a higher level. Basketball is one of those sports where you tend to see these types of sudden cardiac arrests more.

And the more minutes that you're playing, the higher likelihood of it happening. Now, again, this is rare. So I just want to be clear that no one is suggesting that you're going to tailor the number of minutes and things like that. But built on that is dehydration and other things that are causing the heart to work harder, possibly bringing something like this on.

So it may have been an underlying condition. That may not have posed a problem yet in someone's life. But as you're going through these different paces, different conditions, taxing the heart harder, it could have elicited an electrical abnormality, it could have elicited something with the muscles of the heart now leading to the sudden cardiac arrest.

SOLOMON: Sanjay, help us understand what happens now in terms of treatment for Bronny.

As we heard, he is out of the ICU, he is stable, but walk us through the types of things that will happen in the hours and the days to come. GUPTA: So, I think, if they let him out of the ICU, that basically --

what they're saying, and all we can really infer from that is that they felt that his heart was now stable, it was beating in a normal pattern, and they had no reason to believe at this point that he would have another sudden cardiac arrest.

Keeping him in the hospital to do these tests, sorts of tests that you do, you may put an ultrasound on the chest wall, looking at the heart, looking for any structural abnormalities of the heart, again, what I was talking about to say, is the muscle of one chamber of the heart bigger than it should be or bigger than the muscles of the other chambers of the heart?

They're going to look at the electrical pattern on his heart, and probably over a period of time. So, at baseline, it looks like it's fine. Oh, but look over here. He's having certain spikes, certain changes in those electrical patterns. They may have things that are stressing the heart.

And they're actually having him go on a treadmill or something, or giving a medication to sort of speed up the heart and seeing if those electrical patterns change. These are the types of things that they do. That's exactly, again, the type of investigation that was happening with Damar Hamlin, who, by the way, was a lot sicker than it sounds like Bronny was.

You will remember Damar Hamlin was in the ICU for a period of time after that cardiac arrest and was unconscious for a period of time. With Bronny, again, given the fact that he's out of the ICU, there's a great deal of comfort in that. But these investigations into what exactly triggered this, they have to happen. And there's a good chance there will be an answer.

It's not 100 percent. There are situations where someone has a sudden cardiac arrest and there's never a very clear reason as to why it happened. But more times than not, they will figure it out.

SOLOMON: And, Sanjay, it's interesting. As we sit here and talk about Damar Hamlin, he actually just recently tweeted. I want to read it for you: "Prayers to Bronny and the James family as well." Prayer emoji. "Here for you guys, just like you had been here for me for my entire process."

BERMAN: Sanjay, to the point of Damar Hamlin and to something you said -- and we will bring Andy back in, Andy Scholes back in, in one moment, but just one more medical question.

Damar Hamlin lost consciousness, I mean, for -- we believe for an extended period of time, on the football field when he had his heart incident. I suppose one thing we do not know yet and one thing that will be important to assess from Bronny James is, how long was he out for? Did he need to be resuscitated?

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Is there anything you can read into the fact that he's already out of the ICU?

GUPTA: Yes, I have been asking the same questions.

When someone says someone had a sudden cardiac arrest, again, we will get the details, but loss of consciousness and likely needed resuscitation, maybe even defibrillation, likely fibrillation, at that time, that's become pretty standard of care. But we will hear.

But, again, to your point, we kind of know the outcome already. We can sort of go back and figure out exactly what led to that outcome. But what -- the outcome was, he was taken to the hospital. He was in the ICU, but was quickly discharged from the ICU.

[11:15:06]

So, whatever happened leading up to that point, we know at that point that he was in the ICU. The doctors said, OK, we see what happened, but he is stable enough after we put it all together to let him leave the ICU and conduct the rest of these exams that I was just talking about on a general care floor.

And that should provide a lot of -- a lot -- that's a good sign. It should provide a lot of comfort. It doesn't, by any means, mean that he's out of the woods. And, again, we have to figure out exactly what happened here. And we will hear that, but it is a very good sign that they were able to make that decision so quickly.

BERMAN: Want to bring back in Andy Scholes.

Andy, you and I have talked about this. LeBron James, some people -- and I think he talked about this -- one of his goals was to be a professional basketball player alongside his son Bronny, play on the same team as Bronny.

Just talk to us about Bronny James, the player and the individual, 18 years old, going into USC now.

SCHOLES: Well, it's so hard to live up to the expectations when your dad is LeBron James, right?

I mean, we rarely see the superstar athlete and their kids follow in their footsteps. But to this point, Bronny, he at every single level was kind of reaching that threshold. He started at Sierra Canyon, like I mentioned, was an All -- a McDonald's All-American, competed in the dunk contest.

And when LeBron said, like, oh, in my later years, my dream is to one day play with my son, a lot of people thought, well, that might be a little far-fetched to have those kind of expectations that your oldest son is going to make it to the NBA in time for you to still be there.

But that certainly was a possibility. Bronny was a four-star prospect going there to play at USC playing in Los Angeles, so his dad could still attend all of his games. And, as Sanjay mentioned, the signs right now look positive that he's already out of ICU. And we saw just a few years ago a star player for the Florida Gators Keyontae Johnson, he collapsed on the court while playing for the Gators in a game, went to the hospital, was in critical condition, was in a medically induced coma for a few days. Before he got out of that coma, doctors were able to, like Sanjay said, diagnose what his problem was.

He transferred to Kansas State. We just watched him star with the Wildcats in the NCAA Tournament. He ended up getting a second round draft pick by the Oklahoma City Thunder just earlier this month. So the hope is, John and Rahel, that Bronny is going to have a similar path that Keyontae Johnson had, right, they're going to be able to diagnose what his problem is, and he's going to be able to get back on the basketball court and perform at a high level like he's used to.

BERMAN: I'm so glad that Andy Scholes brought up the Keyontae Johnson case, because that is a hopeful example here. My mind immediately went to cases from when I was a kid, Hank Gathers and Reggie Lewis, who tragically passed away after heart incidents on the basketball court, but Bronny James now, obviously, out of the ICU after a cardiac arrest, in stable condition.

SOLOMON: In stable condition, according to his family. A lot to watch.

BERMAN: Andy Scholes, thank you very much. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our thanks to you as well.

SOLOMON: We will continue, of course, to follow the story throughout the day. But, in the meantime, thank you both.

And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:22:47]

SOLOMON: Welcome back.

The federal grand jury investigating former President Trump's alleged election interference is expected to convene today.

With us now, Danya Perry. She is a former prosecutor with the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of New York, and is also now representing Michael Cohen in a civil case against Donald Trump.

Danya, welcome. Good to have you.

So, let's start, because you have been both a prosecutor and a defense attorney now. You have done both. But I want to start with this February 2020 meeting. How does Jack Smith use this to establish intent, to establish that Trump knew that there was no fraud?

DANYA PERRY, FORMER SDNY PROSECUTOR: Well, I want to begin, I think, with a preparatory note that, while Jack Smith will have to prove intent, will have to prove the former president's state of mind, and will have to prove that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and that he was perpetrating a fraud, that doesn't really translate to a requirement that he prove that the former president actually believed that the election was stolen.

Having said that, it will be useful for him to prove that or at least to disprove Trump's inevitable defense that he believed and continues to believe that the election was, in fact, rigged and stolen from him, so prove that in the months, weeks, days before the election and before January 6 that the president was not only aware that this election was, as the Department of Homeland Security said, the most secure in the history, but that he believed that and he praised those efforts.

To the point that he wanted to hold a press conference to be able to take credit for it. So, it does show that, consistent with what most of his advisers and lawyers and campaign aides were telling him, that there, in fact, was no fraud and that he had lost the election.

So it's all of a piece. And it does go to, I think, an issue that will have some jury appeal, that it will be important for the jury to understand that he knew the whole time that the election was not stolen, that it had in fact gone to President Biden, and that he was just trying to overturn the results, so that he could stay in power.

[11:25:07]

And just one more note there.

SOLOMON: But, Danya Perry, you imagine that -- I would just say that you would imagine that...

(CROSSTALK)

SOLOMON: ... if it got in front of a jury, that Trump's defense team might say, yes, maybe he believed that then, but perhaps he changed his mind as he learned more.

I mean, help me understand the defense case of this. I want you to put on your -- sort of your defense trial hat here. What's the defense?

PERRY: That is absolutely correct.

They will say, OK, in February of 2020, he was given this briefing in the Oval Office, and he thought it looked great. But then as the situation unfolded, he came to believe that, in fact, it was not secure. They can certainly say that.

But what will be useful for the special counsel here is to show this through line, that, beginning as early as early 2020, and going -- going throughout is a thread that the president at the time was being told that, in fact, that there were no problems,there was no demonstrable fraud, certainly none that could have overturned the results of the election.

So it's a pattern, and it shows from relatively early on and from shortly before he made -- he began to make false election claims that he was being told by people with authority that there were no problems with our election system.

SOLOMON: Danya Perry, great to have your insight today. Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: House Speaker Kevin McCarthy makes his most direct impeachment threat against President Biden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]