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Hunter Biden Hearing Ends With Plea Deal On Hold; Fed Raises Key Interest Rate By A Quarter Point; Singer Sinead O'Connor Dies At 56. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 26, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Leaves open to whether there is some aspect of this investigation that we've known for some time where parts of this. Including -- or money laundering, whether he violated the law on foreign agent registration. Whether those things are still on the table.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

PEREZ: Again, those are big, big things.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: And if you're Hunter Biden, why would you agree to deal whereby some of these things that, again, have been under an examination under a five-year investigation, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: Whether those things are still on the table. That is --

SCIUTTO: It leaves him hanging.

PEREZ: -- to me, very perplexing. One thing I will say.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: We were surprised that when you know, this day began, we had not yet seen a statement of facts from the government. The government had not filed it in open court, so we couldn't see it. And so, some of the questions that you're asking are very good ones, are ones that we possibly could have been answered by looking at that agreement before the court hearing began.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, those FARA violations are things we've seen failing to file as a foreign agent for deals or something we've seen prosecuted with penalties in recent years against a number of officials, including the Trump administration. Norm Eisen, so there are three players now in effect because you got the prosecution, you got Biden's lawyers, and you have the judge here. They all got to be happy to come to a conclusion here to get some sort of deal back on track. Based on what you're seeing playing out as a lawyer that the remaining issues, do you see those pieces coming together? NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That would be the normal state of affairs, Jim, because --

SCIUTTO: Normal. Normal went away a long time ago, Norm.

PEREZ: No more than they lead you no more.

EISEN: Can I just ask questions? The questions are usually resolved. We saw that resolution of the scope of the plea bargain, that very quickly happened over the break. Now, there's the additional questions about the constitutionality of some of these.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: My reaction to that. There are legitimate constitutional issues rattling around that would have come out if there was a trial.

SCIUTTO: Be specific about those kinds because are we talking about big-picture separation of power, constitutional issues here? Are we talking about the judge's concerns about her involvement in this?

EISEN: Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: I think everyone is scratching their head a little bit. We'll see that in the briefs. This is the kind of issue where you have to ask, and we've seen these with -- we've seen this with a number of Trump-appointed judges.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: We saw it with Judge Aileen Cannon in her initial rulings on the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago, is this out of the ordinary? I'm not ready to say at this stage that it is included because as Evan notes, there's a lot of information we didn't get right away.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, to your point about --

EISEN: But are we going there?

SCIUTTO: -- Trump-appointed judge, but of course, the prosecutor involved in this case, Weiss, was Trump-appointed himself. So interestingly, you have on both sides of this case, well, two out of the three, right? You have folks who were appointed by the Trump administration.

PEREZ: Right. I mean, look. The judge was raising some -- I think, some very legitimate basic concerns. I mean, she started pulling a thread.

And you know who knew that the entire robe would just come falling down, right, just from pulling that one thread? And so, the -- I think that she was asking some legitimate questions about whether the two agreements, right? The one dealing with the tax issues --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: And the one with the gun whether the two things were linked, whether if, for example, there was a problem in meeting the issues with the first one --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: Whether the other one falls apart, and that's where they seem to start going off the rails because it's suddenly they seem the two sides did not agree.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: And that's where she finally said, OK, I have some concerns.

SCIUTTO: That's a problem. And we should note that the gun portion of this was held in escrow to some degree. In other words, just sort of put out here on hold and the judge would have to decide if there was a violation in the future.

Anyway, lots of complicated stuff. I didn't go to law school. That's why I bring guys like this on board. Norm Eisen, Boris. Certainly, a lot more questions to be answered.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I did not go to law school either. We're fortunate to have them as well as Kara Scannell who's outside the federal courthouse and was in the courtroom as all of this was happening. Again, if you're just joining us, the breaking news, a judge putting a hold on a plea deal struck by Hunter Biden and his legal team, and prosecutors with the DOJ on two important tax evasion charges and a gun charge that apparently she took issue with, calling it unusual.

Let's go now to Kara Scannell. Kara, you've been there all day with this back and forth. First, talk to us about the demeanor of Hunter Biden when he walked in versus when all of this was happening and then when he walked out of court. Because we were anticipating that this matter would be resolved when that's been ongoing now for five years. And instead of it being resolved, we've got more coming in the court.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris. I mean, starting off today, summon his legal team, thought that this would have been a 30- minute court hearing. It lasted more than three hours and ultimately walking out of here without any plea deal with Hunter Biden pleading not guilty to those two tax misdemeanors.

So, during the beginning of the hearing when things were still on track, it was fairly normal. The judge was asking him to usual questions before someone enters a plea. And he was answering very respectfully, yes, Your Honor, yes, Your Honor to all of the questions.

[14:05:07]

But then after the plea deals appeared to be falling apart, this was the first time when it was that Hunter Biden's legal team and the prosecutors appear to be on different pages as to the scope of this agreement, and what kind of protections he would have from any other possible criminal charges. Then they took a 10-minute break to try to work this out.

And during that period of time, Biden was huddling with his attorneys at times. his brow was furrowed. They were trying to work out exactly what he was going to be pleading guilty to. No small decision.

You know, he appeared agitated. One of our colleagues, Devan Cole, had a good look at him and said that he looked worried and agitated during this process. Then they appeared to reach a deal again. Both the Biden's team getting on board with the prosecution's version of what was covered by the plea agreement, which was just tax charges, gun charges, and drug charges.

And then it was the judge who picked things up again. We look like we're moving forward to a resolution. But then she said she wasn't ready to accept the terms of this deal.

And then ultimately, he was removed from the courtroom to go be processed for the charges that he -- that the crimes he's now charged with which he entered the not guilty plea to, but he left the courtroom to be processed on those fingerprinted. And with the usual courses. And then there's the big question now of whether we will hear from his legal team today if they will make any sort of statement on that. And we're waiting to find out if they will.

Obviously, a different scenario than they thought they were walking into court today. Walking out today with a lot more work to do. The judge giving both sides 30 days to provide the legal briefs on the issues. She has raised concerns in two areas.

One is this tax misdemeanor plea agreement, about the scope of it and how it was structured under the rules in which she essentially would be a rubber stamp to it would not be able to accept the plea or change the plea or pressure the plea that was just given to her to say OK, I get it. And then ultimately have a role in sentencing. And that would be up to her that she's not bound by anybody in what kind of sentence she would give him.

But then the other issue on this gun diversion. There, she had constitutional question issues. She said it wasn't -- she wasn't sure if it was OK for her, the judge, someone at the judicial branch to be, as she put it plopped into the middle of this agreement that's reached between Hunter Biden and the prosecution. And she said that she wasn't able on the fly to make a decision of whether that was OK.

Now, she did apologize to Hunter Biden telling him I'm sorry. She understood he wanted to resolve this and was eager to get, as you said this five-year-long investigation resolve. But she also said you know, she wanted to make it very clear that he was pleading guilty under an agreement to terms that he believed to be the case, not something that he could find out was not part of the agreement. So, she's doing it in a sense to protect him and to protect this agreement by making sure that he understood it, and that it was constitutional, Boris. SANCHEZ: And, Kara, you mentioned that both sides, the prosecution, and Hunter Biden's legal team, now have 30 days to file these additional briefs. Have we heard about what that process is going to be like? Has either side given an indication of what they intend to do with those briefings?

SCANNELL: Well, the prosecution said that they would need time to review the transcript because there was so much discussed today to make sure that they understood exactly what issues the judge had questions about. So, they would need time to do some legal briefings on this issue, to look for different case laws potentially, you know, to support their position but also, you know, to negotiate probably further and firm up some of these questions that they were modifying on the fly. Such as the scope of the immunity deal, you know, within the tax agreement -- the tax plea agreement.

So, they're going to have to get on the same page and probably firm that up in writing to make sure that they both agree to what would be covered under that as far as what charges it covered and what charges it would potentially not cover because that was one of the initial wrinkles in this agreement. You know, and then they'll have to present this to the judge. And then, you know, she will probably have them -- both sides come back in for another hearing on this if she has other questions or could move to then a guilty plea if she is satisfied by this agreement.

But certainly not where we thought we were going to be today. And the judge saying -- you know, she's not saying today that she's going to reject this plea agreement, but she also thinks she's not willing to sign off on it as it was today.

SANCHEZ: Kara, one more question. The awkwardness that we saw in the back and forth today in court, it wasn't the only weird moment in this case in the last 24 hours. Because allegedly, there was a miscommunication between Hunter Biden's legal team and a request to take down certain information that was posted to the case docket. How did that come up in court today? And break that whole scenario down for us.

SCANNELL: I mean, Boris, that's what we thought was going to be a bit of a sideshow today in the hearing. In fact, it didn't even come up at all. The judge was squarely focused on these agreements.

But what had happened was yesterday, the House chairman of the -- sorry, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee asked for permission to file an amicus brief because he wanted the judge to consider before accepting this plea deal some of the information that came forward from the IRS whistleblowers who said that they believed that there was political interference in this investigation.

[14:10:16]

Then what came to the judge's attention is that the House Ways and Means Committee's attorneys said that this document was taken off the court docket, and they said improperly. Because they said one of Hunter Biden's attorneys had contacted the clerk of the court saying that she worked for the House and ask them to take it down. Now, Biden's attorneys were asked by the judge to respond.

She said, why shouldn't I sanction you for this -- for this misrepresentation? And so Biden's attorney said, no, that's not what happened. This was a misunderstanding.

I expected that to take up some portion of the arguments today. But in fact, it didn't even come up because so much of the core of this plea agreement took front and center issues here. So, it is -- remains to be seen what would even happen if this amicus brief is going to come into this case if the judge is even going to consider it, and if it's something that will be taken up. But it wasn't even addressed today in court with all of the other dramatics going on.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Now, it's just a footnote in the face of all of this drama. Kara Scannell, please stand by. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Back with Norm Eisen and Evan Perez. Big picture for a moment, Norm Eisen. So, this is a surprise to all involved from the outside. Who's responsible? Did prosecution lawyers and defense lawyers not tie up the loose ends, or in your view, is the judge getting unusually involved in this case -- in this deal?

EISEN: Probably all of the above, Jim.

SCIUTTO: OK.

EISEN: You know the -- this was an issue about the scope.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: You know, was this a free pass in perpetuity if Hunter took the plea here?

SCIUTTO: That's been resolved but it's not as it's fast.

EISEN: That has now been resolved.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: But you know, my view was that that was some posturing by his lawyer, Mr. Clark, but that it was clear when you looked at the terms that we knew of the plea agreement that this was not going to foreclose everything. And the Justice Department's folks people had said there was an open matter.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: So, I viewed that as posturing OK, the judge wants to nail it down in the plea agreement. But now, to introduce these kinds of fundamental or existential questions about a plea agreement, that's very unusual. We'll see how that plays out.

There's a tension between her position. Because first, she says, I don't want to be a rubber stamp. You're making me a rubber stamp.

And then a few minutes later, she turns around and says, you're plopping me down in the middle. In other words, I'm not enough of a rubber stamp.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: So, I suspect it will be worked out. The parties will go back. You have to respond to her. You know, I don't think that these suppose constitutional concerns are very well taken.

SCIUTTO: Right. Understood. Evan, you've been covering this case from the beginning. Do you see -- what are the two sides doing right now in effect? Are they -- are they meeting over coffee and saying we got to work this out by tomorrow? I mean, do they have an interest both parties in resurrecting a plea deal?

PEREZ: I think both parties, both the government and Hunter Biden seem to have an interest in trying to resolve this as soon as possible. I don't think they're going to do it today. They're going to take a breath and go back and start those conversations again, Jim.

The question, though, of whether this judge has really kind of maybe, right, has been influenced by some of the ongoing noise -- the questions that have been out there, the political questions, which, you know, Republicans were trying to inject themselves into this hearing from the beginning.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: And, you know, she seems to at least be saying that she was uncomfortable with being a rubber stamp on at least part of this agreement.

SCIUTTO: Interesting.

PEREZ: And so, the question is whether that is indeed the issue.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: Whether she makes that clear, or whether there is some way for the Justice Department, for the -- for David Weiss, the U.S. Attorney here, and for the Hunter Biden team to come to some new agreement that they can try to get past her. I mean, the question, you know, obviously, it doesn't resolve itself. The political question doesn't resolve this off here, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: We know that beyond just the legal part of this, there's a whole political part of this.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: And we may be seeing that inject itself into this.

SCIUTTO: Possible. In an ideal world, the court is impervious to that sort of political pressure from the outside, which, by the way, is the substance of the allegations that you hear from Republican lawmakers.

PEREZ: Right.

SCIUTTO: But wouldn't be the first time. And to be fair, it is a highly charged case. First time, the president's son, for instance.

PEREZ: But nothing --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: Nothing really explains why this case has been going on for five years. I mean, this is not that kind of a case that is so complicated --

SCIUTTO: Right.

PEREZ: -- that needs to take five years. So, there's just --

SCIUTTO: Do you agree with that, given the severity?

PEREZ: Insanity.

[14:15:05]

EISEN: I do.

SCIUTTO: OK.

EISEN: And I think the other thing that we're talking about is also a clue this misunderstanding where one of Hunter Biden's lawyers called the courthouse and said, hey, some documents have been filed by a Republican Congressman, it has very sensitive information. And suddenly we get an order from the judge saying there's been a misrepresentation.

It's a very reputable firm. It's somebody who does this all the time. I very much doubt there was any misrepresentation or subterfuge. That overreaction speaks to the honest radioactive nature of everything that's going on here.

SCIUTTO: Yes. One update just moments ago, Hunter Biden left the courthouse. I believe we have pictures there. There he is, in fact, with his lawyers.

This, as we've been reporting, the hearings are done for the day. If they do come to an agreement, we're not going to hear about that until tomorrow. But you can be sure that prosecutors and Biden's attorneys have some conversations to get to, to see if they could bring this back to life. Meanwhile, we do have other news, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Let's put a pin in the conversation about Hunter Biden to bring you this major breaking news. Just minutes ago, the Federal Reserve announced its decision to raise interest rates for the 11th time since March of last year. Let's go to CNN's Christine Romans, who has been tracking this. Christine, these are the highest interest rates the United States has now seen in some 22 years.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And this is a decision, Boris, that will affect just about every American. If you have money in the bank, or you are borrowing on a credit card or borrowing for a home, these are numbers that matter.

It's a Federal Reserve that's trying to get inflation under control. The Fed's saying the U.S. economy is growing at a moderate pace, the job market is robust, but inflation is still too high. The Fed would like to get inflation -- consumer inflation to about two percent. It's sitting at three percent right now. So the Fed doing more work here.

This is, again, something that will affect how much interest you're getting in your bank account for savers out there, but also will definitely make it more expensive to borrow money here. The Fed trying to cool down what has been a resilient U.S. economy and try to get inflation under control.

SANCHEZ: And, Christine, we're expecting to hear from Fed Chairman Jerome Powell within the hour. What are you anticipating he's going to say? Are there future rate hikes?

ROMANS: That's exactly what reporters will be asking him. When they next meet in eight weeks, will the Fed think it needs to raise interest rates again a little bit to really, to use your words, to put a pin in it and make sure this inflation story is over here? There's a lot of data between now and then though, and the Fed has been very clear that it is data-dependent, as they say. They'll be watching every report that comes in to see if the U.S. economy might be able to, believe it or not, try to have a soft landing here.

You know, it wasn't long ago, the R-word in everyone's -- on everyone's lips was recession. Now, the R-word on everyone's lips is resilient. That resiliency though, causes a problem for the Fed. The Fed trying to tamp down the economy to make sure inflation doesn't rear up again.

SANCHEZ: Yes. we've been talking about a potential recession now for almost two years, but it just, fortunately, has not come about.

ROMANS: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Christine Romans, thank you so much. Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Hunter Biden just left court. We're going to follow that breaking news and what comes next as his legal drama unfolds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:08]

SANCHEZ: Some startling and sad breaking news just into CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Global star and singer Sinead O'Connor has died. She was reportedly just 56 years old. This comes some 18 months after her 17- year-old son reportedly took his own life. CNN's Stephanie Elam has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Sinead O'Connor obliterated the image of the female music star in the late 1980s with a shaved head, stirring performances, and a mouthful of controversial opinions. O'Connor topped the music charts in 1990 with her version of "Nothing Compares 2 U" written by Prince. She won MTV's Video of the Year Award.

Rolling Stone named her Artists of the Year in 1991. She earned four Grammy nominations for the song and the album "It Was On." But accolades and awards seem to mean nothing compared to O'Connor's drive to provoke thought.

SINEAD O'CONNOR, SINGER: Fight the real enemy.

ELAM (voiceover): When O'Connor ripped up this photo of Pope John Paul II on national television, backlash reverberated around the globe. Weeks later, a New York crowd booed the singer loudly and incessantly when she took her turn on stage at a Bob Dylan tribute. O'Connor repeatedly defended herself. Calling herself Catholic and spiritual.

And in 1999, she became the first priestess of a dissident Roman Catholic group. When the Catholic priests' sex abuse scandal exploded, O'Connor call for the Pope to tell the truth.

O'CONNOR: We have the documents and we have the proof to tell us that we're being lied to and we're being lied to by people who are supposed to represent Jesus Christ.

ELAM (voiceover): O'Connor lashed out at other celebrities. Once called YouTube Music Bombastic started a war of words with Miley Cyrus when O'Connor publicly urged the young performer not to "let the music business make a prostitute of you." And accused Arsenio Hall of being a drug supplier for Prince after the superstar's death.

O'Connor's personal life was tabloid fodder. Divorce, custody battles. The singer married four times. Was a mother to four children, tormented, talented. O'Connor attempted suicide in the late 1990s.

In early 2022, she checked into a hospital while grieving the death of her third son, Shane. At 51, O'Connor converted to Islam, covering her trademark shaved head with a hijab. But she continued performing her music, reflecting upon a lifetime of struggle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:25:04]

SANCHEZ: Our thanks to Stephanie Elam for that report. Again, Sinead O'Connor dead at 56 years old. Jim?

SCIUTTO: We do have -- we do have some breaking news to report. Concerning news that is that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell pictured there just appeared to freeze during his weekly press conference about halfway through a sentence as he was speaking.

Our Manu Raju was in the room as this happened. And, Manu, I wonder if you could describe what you saw and what you're hearing now from McConnell's office. MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Mitch McConnell, this is every week they -- he gives a weekly press conference. Talks to reporters about the issues of the day.

And he began his remarks -- his opening remarks talking about the legislative business that is happening in the United States Senate. Then he abruptly froze causing some questions, some alarm among some of his colleagues, and the suggestion that perhaps they should end the press conference hastily. And he later went back to his office for some time, then returned to answer some questions. Ultimately said he was fine. But this is the moment in which he froze in the middle of his opening remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): After finishing the NDA, this week has been good bipartisan cooperation and a string of a --

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Are you OK, Mitch? Anything else you want to say or do you want to say goodbye to? Do you want to say anything else to the press? We'll take you back. Let's go back to go ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, those in this -- the senator who is initially speaking to them was Senator John Barrasso, who is a physician. Asked him if he was OK, and want to continue on with that press conference.

Recall there has been a number of concerns about Senator McConnell's health. He is 81 years old. Earlier this year, he suffered a fall, hit his head while at an event in a Washington hotel.

He was later hospitalized for some time. He was diagnosed with a concussion as well as some broken ribs. He's had some walking issues for much of his life, given that he had polio as a child that he later recovered from. And then has -- had some incidents as of in recent years of tripping and falling, including earlier this year, in that one incident.

So, I asked the leader whether or not this was related to the concussion that he suffered over this year. He said, no. I am fine. He did not elaborate at all.

But he did continue the press conference, did answer some questions, including about impeachment that talks about potentially impeaching Joe Biden in the U.S. House as well as the plea deal with Hunter Biden that collapsed, as well as some other discussions -- questions about the appropriations process and spending legislation that's happening. So, he was able to answer some of those questions.

RAJU: But in just observing McConnell in recent weeks.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAJU: He's been a little bit speaking much slower. He's not as speaking as he's -- in recent press conferences, he's been speaking with more of a hushed tone, not as loud of a voice as he has had in the past. At one point earlier this year, just a few weeks ago, he was unable to hear questions that were being asked to him that were clearly audible among some of the reporters were asking at his weekly press conference.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAJU: So here obviously, a concerning situation. But as you can hear there, Jim, the leader says he's fine and he's -- he said he can do his job. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, deeply concerning that pause as you saw it on camera there lasted an uncomfortable length of time. As you mentioned, Senator John Barrasso an MD himself, but do we know if the Minority Leader received any medical attention following this?

RAJU: It doesn't seem that way, Jim. It was pretty quick from the time he left the press conference to the time that he returned to answer questions. Each of those senators who were pictured there with him were answering questions -- or giving their own opening statements before the leader came back to answer about five questions or so from reporters. So, there was not any time to get any sort of medical room --

SCIUTTO: Right.

RAJU: -- any doctor or anyone to come and diagnose him with anything here. But it's very clear that obviously, some -- this could potentially be related to all of the after-effects of that concussion earlier this year.

SCIUTTO: Right.

RAJU: But the senator says he's fine, even as the number of senators there are obviously concerned about that unusual moment here in the halls of the Senate.

SCIUTTO: Sure. All right. Anybody watching, I'm sure. Manu Raju, thanks so much for covering. If you're just joining us, we just played some video of the Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell, freezing up for a number of seconds during his weekly press conference.

We'll continue to stay on top of that story, as well as anything we're learning about the deal, no longer, Hunter Biden plea deal as we continue to follow that story as well. Please do stay with us.