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Hunter Biden Hearing Ends With Plea Deal On Hold; McConnell Says He's "Fine" After Freezing During News Conference; Irish Media: Singer Sinead O'Connor Dies At 56. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 26, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:43]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: No deal, at least for now. A short time ago, Hunter Biden pleaded not guilty to two tax misdemeanors. A late audible, he was planning to plead guilty as part of a deal with the Justice Department, but what it should have been a perfunctory hearing became a roller coaster ride after disagreements over the scope of the deal. The two sides apparently revised it, but not to the judge's liking, so she ended the hearing and now the agreement is in limbo.

CNN's Kara Scannell was inside the courtroom as all of this was happening. She's live in Wilmington, Delaware for us.

So, Kara, this was quite a dramatic day in court. Walk us through what happened.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Boris. Not at all what we expected to happen. What we thought would have been a 30 minute hearing where Hunter Biden would have pleaded guilty to these two tax misdemeanors and a diversion agreement related to a felony gun charge turned into a roller coaster.

So the first snag came when the judge was questioning the scope of this agreement, this plea agreement relating to the tax charges. And she asked questions of prosecutors about exactly what it covered and that's when it was revealed that the prosecution and Hunter Biden's team had two different ideas about just what this agreement included, with the prosecutor saying then the deal was off and the Hunter Biden's team saying the deal was null and void. Then they asked for a 10 minute break to try to work things out.

They came back into court with the judge on the bench and they said, okay, now we've got a deal. Biden's team agreed to the scope of the agreement that the prosecution wanted. That means that this agreement would have covered no other charges that related to taxes, to guns or to drug use but it left open the possibility of charges about other matters. That was because prosecutors said that their investigation was ongoing.

Now, it seemed like things were back on track and the judge started to go through the normal course again of asking Hunter Biden questions about the plea agreement, about the statement of facts, meaning what exactly he was pleading guilty to. She even got into such detail questioning. She went line by line asking him to explain certain specific elements that he was pleading guilty to about his drug use, about when he became sober and how even when he was sober he failed to pay his taxes on time.

But then things took another turn when the judge was questioning this gun diversion deal. She was questioning the constitutionality of it, saying that as part of the deal, prosecutors and Hunter Biden wanted her to serve as a fact finder in case there was any future dispute over whether he might have breached that agreement.

The judge saying she didn't think it was her role, someone in the judicial branch, to have a role in the executive branch's decision making of whether to bring charges. So she raised questions about that. And she said she wasn't willing to make this decision on the fly. So she said to Hunter Biden, I'm just not ready to accept this plea deal, telling him I'm sorry, knowing that he was eager to resolve this investigation, which had been ongoing for five years, that had been very wide ranging and had finally been negotiated into this deal just last month.

She had said to him, I can't let him plea to something if he thinks it has protections, it doesn't. So she really wanted to firm up exactly what he's pleading guilty to, exactly what charges it covers and what it doesn't cover.

So now the judge is giving both sides 30 days to provide legal briefs on these issues to resolve both the questions about the plea agreement. She had questioned about what her role was in this, saying that was essentially a rubber stamp, not that she had a right to accept the plea deal, just that she was supposed to stamp it through. And then also the constitutionality issues on the gun diversion charges written.

So both sides will be getting back to the drawing board to try to come up with a remedy that works for both the prosecution and for Biden's team. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Kara, there was speculation that we might hear directly from Hunter Biden at some point today. We just watched the video of him leaving court. No public statement from the President's son. What was he like as all of this was unfolding? Did he show any signs of emotion?

SCANNELL: Well, during the beginning of the hearing, when things appeared to be on track, he was fairly genial. He was responding calmly to the judge, answering questions with "yes, Your Honor." But then when we had that first hiccup where it appeared that the deal was falling apart, the judge left the bench and both sides were trying to figure out if they could amend this.

[15:05:08]

He was walking around the courtroom talking to his attorneys. His brow was furrowed. He looked agitated and that was in contrast when he walked into the courtroom and the prosecution team came in. He went over and he shook their hands. So very much a different scene later when it appeared that this deal was potentially falling apart.

Then, he was escorted after he pleaded not guilty out of the courtroom to get processed as you do when you're charged with a crime. So that means fingerprinting and those things. And then we saw him leave court. And when he walked out of court today, he didn't really have much of an expression on his face, but certainly not the outcome he was expecting when he walked in this morning.

SANCHEZ: Kara Scannell, thank you so much for the details from Wilmington, Delaware. Let's get some analysis now from former federal prosecutor, Katie Cherkasky.

Katie, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

So moving forward, both sides of 30 days to file additional briefs, who has more work to do here, the DOJ prosecutors or Hunter Biden's legal team? How do you see it?

KATIE CHERKASKY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think Hunter has a huge incentive to get to a place of agreement with the prosecutors. But ultimately, we have to remember that it's the judge who has to ensure that the deal is in the interest of justice, broadly speaking, before it will be accepted. So they both have to decide the contours of this deal.

And if Hunter, ultimately, is the one who has to agree to this, regardless of what attorneys on either side are saying.

Katie, one particular part of the agreement that the judge called into question, she called it unusual, was that gun charge, the diversion deal between prosecutors and Biden's team. She at one point wondered if it was even constitutional. Explain what you think she meant by that.

Well, the judge pointed out in this case that the plea deal had some unusual provisions and sometimes counsel from both sides try to come up with agreements to essentially achieve goals that they see as being possible, but they try to be - get a little too creative with it.

So I think the judge here was concerned that because the diversion agreement, which essentially means that Hunter Biden will not be convicted of the gun charge if he successfully completes probation tied to these other charges. And the reason that that's a problem is because he has a couple of years of probation to complete to essentially wipe that charge from his record.

But if there's an allegation that he actually violated the terms of his probation, the way this agreement was worded was that the parties would have to go back to this judge and have her actually decide whether he should then be charged with that charge officially instead of have the charge diverted.

And the judge felt that that charging decision would be a usurpation of an executive decision, a prosecutorial decision and that she couldn't be in the position to actually make that decision because the way it was worded had her playing that role and she did not find that appropriate. And it's really - it is an uncommon provision that they tried to put in there.

SANCHEZ: So Katie, it seems like there are a lot of hurdles left for these two sides to overcome. Do you ultimately see a deal getting finalized?

CHERKASKY: Well, I think that they can absolutely reach a deal. However, I think from Hunter Biden's perspective, this deal is far more limited than what I think some people were thinking or what he was probably hoping for, because this will not shield him from any other charges, including charges potentially related to foreign agent registration and things of that sort.

And the big question here, even relating to tax charges and gun charges, is how much does this protect him and where would double jeopardy come in where he wouldn't be able to be charged with things that were looked into during the course of this investigation. The judge has to be very clear about that with Hunter Biden. And Hunter Biden himself should want to be very clear about what does this protect him from and what is still open game.

I mean, there's an open investigation now that that's been confirmed by the prosecutors today. So he has a lot to consider about whether this deal is in his interest. And sure, any deal is going to let somebody get away with something right because otherwise they wouldn't take it. But it has some significant limitations.

So Hunter Biden is going to have to decide if this is something that is amenable to him. He's the one who's going to be facing those consequences.

SANCHEZ: Some important questions ahead for the President's son.

Katie Cherkasky, thanks so much for your time.

CHERKASKY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Well, the story we're following closely, Senate Minority Leader, the Republican Mitch McConnell, says he is fine after a truly unnerving moment on Capitol Hill on camera this afternoon. McConnell stopped speaking for some 30 seconds right in the middle of remarks at his regularly scheduled news conference. Here is that moment.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): ... path to finishing the NDA. This week, there's been good bipartisan cooperation and a string of ...

[15:10:03]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you good, Mitch? Sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay, Mitch? Anything else you want to say or should we just go back to your office?

MCCONNELL: Huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to say anything else to the press? We'll take a break.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go back to the ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead, John.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll take a break.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go back to the office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead, John.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Quite a concerning moment there.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. He was there as it was happening.

And Manu, I understand you spoke to the senator himself afterwards. What did he say to you?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he didn't really get into the details about what happened. I tried to ask him about that very unnerving moment that alarmed his colleagues that sent Sen. McConnell away from his weekly press conference. He walked over to his office, which is a short walk from where that press conference was.

And then he later returned and answered questions from reporters like me when I asked him about this and whether he could continue to do his job. He indicated he could.

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RAJU: Could you address what happened at the start of the press conference and was it related to your injury from earlier this year where you suffered a concussion, is that ...

MCCONNELL: No. I'm fine.

RAJU: You're fine? You're fully able to do your job of ...

MCCONNELL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: No, a McConnell aide told me that the leader at that moment "felt lightheaded" and then he came back and he answered questions over his - about five questions or so on a range of issues ranging from impeachment to the Hunter Biden plea deal that collapsed. But there have been a number of questions about McConnell's health since earlier this year when, at the age of 81, he fell and hit his head at a Washington hotel during an event. He later suffered a concussion, as well as sustained fractures to his ribs. He went to the hospital for some time. He was out of the Senate for several weeks, later returned.

He has been walking - he tends to walk gingerly. It's been that way for some time because he suffered polio as a kid. He walks with a slight limp. But in recent years, he has had incidents where he has fallen, and the most recent one, of course, causing a lot of concerns about his health.

Now, there was another situation a couple months ago when at the same weekly press conference that he has - he couldn't hear reporters' questions who were clearly audible. The questions were very audible. They were nearby. He had a difficult time hearing in another situation that is raising questions about his health.

Now, McConnell indicating that he's not going anywhere that he plans to serve out, at least through the end of this Congress. He's not up for re-election again until 2026. He has not made any announcements about whether he'll try to become leader again in the next Congress or whether he'd run for re-election again, but this will only add to questions about his future in this very unnerving moment. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Manu Raju on The Hill, thanks so much.

So let's put some of those questions to Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Dr. Gupta, I always hesitate to ask you to diagnose from afar, but this is your field and I wonder, as you saw that really heart- wrenching 30-some seconds there of that pause, freezing up, what struck you as significant?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that was concerning. There's no question about it and I'm - and I think he's going to need a thorough examination and workup, and I'm sure his doctors will probably look at that clip just to sort of try and figure out what exactly happened there.

I think - I mean, there's all sorts of things that come to mind. But as you correctly point out, Jim, some of those things will become clearer once he gets a more thorough examination. Common things being common, you have to wonder if someone is dehydrated, did they - is there some kind of medication side effect.

But also, more seriously, was this a petite mal seizure, a mini seizure so to speak or even a transient ischemic attack, a sort of mini stroke? Again ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: That's speculation and - but it's interesting Manu asked that question. I was just looking at the clock, for about 23 seconds, he was standing at the lectern before someone asked if he was okay, and then it was 32 seconds when he sort of walked off. When he was walking off, he was moving his arms and his legs okay, so that was a good sign that what had happened seemed like it had started to resolve.

Then I think it was about 12 minutes later when Manu asked him that question and the - he sort of said he was doing okay. But clearly, something happened there. You have to assume common things are common, first of all, but you do have to also rule out potentially more serious things and he needs an exam. He needs a ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: ... he says he's fine, but he needs to get checked out, clearly.

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SCIUTTO: I asked Manu that if he got an immediate exam. To his knowledge, he did not. I think when I'm thinking of older relatives, for instance, the acronym, right, BE FAST, you look at various symptoms, if, for instance ...

GUPTA: That's right.

SCIUTTO: ... it were a stroke, balance, eye movement, face (inaudible), but a key part of it, right, is quick, a quick assessment.

GUPTA: It's timing, yes.

SCIUTTO: If a relative of yours say or a patient of yours exhibited such symptoms, you would recommend that they seek medical care or at least an assessment right away?

GUPTA: Absolutely. I mean, time is critically important. Again, I don't want to overstate this. I want to be careful in terms of how we're presenting this, but I think that there was clearly some sort of neurological event that happened there, whether it was just because of dehydration or medication or something like that, perhaps. But that was, again, 23 seconds before he was asked if he was okay, 32 seconds before he left the lectern. I watched closely.

Again, he was doing it of his own power, so you talk about that acronym. One of the things they're testing for ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: ... is strength, and it appeared that he had strength on both the right and left side of his body. But a mini-seizure, a mini-stroke or, again, something more common, whatever it is, that needs to be assessed. So I'm hoping that his staff is getting him to the hospital to get that checked out.

SCIUTTO: Understood. I do want to ask you about another medical story we've been following closely and that, of course, the cardiac arrest that LeBron James' son, Bronny, suffered over the weekend, hospitalized. Our understanding is he's now stable. We have learned that he had, Bronny James, a cardiac screening several

months ago. This is part of a program for prospective NBA players. That screening included an echocardiogram, looks at blood flow through the heart, et cetera.

If you had such a screening, does it always catch issues that might lead to cardiac arrest later or what does this tell you?

GUPTA: These are pretty good screening tests. So the two tests that we're talking about here is a transthoracic echocardiogram, so they're looking at the function of the heart like you said, looking for any structural abnormalities, anatomic abnormalities of the heart and it look like - sounds like that was normal. He also had what's known as a screening EKG, which, for a snapshot in time, looks at the electrical patterns of the heart, which also looked normal.

They are good tests, but I think what you can more reliably say here and these were a couple of months ago, so there's no reason to assume that much had changed over the last couple of months. You can probably start to say anatomical pre-existing problems, probably not the situation here, but he's still going to have the electrical rhythms of his heart checked for a longer period of time.

With the EKG, you're sort of getting a snapshot in time. Now, I imagine what they're doing in the hospital is just leaving these monitors on, something known as a Holter monitor, to just monitor his heart rhythm and see, does he have these unusual spikes of electrical activity of something that's going on.

If that's normal as well, then I think you're feeling a lot more comfortable that this isn't something that was that significant. Was it more related to significant dehydration, intense practicing, something known as vasovagal syndrome, which can happen. I mean, that's something that can also lead to a problem like this.

But just like we're talking with the Senator, you want to rule out the worst things first.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: It sounds like the fact that he had that screening test a couple of months ago that was normal, that's a good sign. The fact that he was in the ICU for such a short time, that basically means that they deemed his heart function normal at the time they released him from the ICU, and now they're trying to figure out what exactly happened on Monday.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Good to have you on, as always, to help us interpret it all. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, the world has lost an international pop star known as much for controversy as the music that catapulted her to fame. Next, we're looking at the life and legacy of Sinead O'Connor.

And after months of relief, drivers are suddenly feeling pain - new pain at the gas pump. What is behind a sudden jump in gas prices?

Plus, an Air Force veteran testifying about UFOs says the technology that he's witnessed far surpasses anything the United States is capable of. The latest when we return.

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[15:23:34]

(Nothing Compares 2 U by Sinead O'Connor)

SANCHEZ: A star in the music world has dimmed. Some breaking news into CNN, Irish media are reporting that Sinead O'Connor has passed away at 56.

With us now our CNN Entertainment Reporter, Chloe Melas, and Senior Editor at Variety, Marc Malkin.

Chloe, let's start with you. What are you hearing about Sinead O'Connor's passing?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Boris, so the family has released a statement to RTE and this is what it says: "It is with great sadness that we announce the passing of our beloved Sinead. Her family and friends are devastated and have requested privacy at this very difficult time."

So they are not releasing the cause of death. Obviously, we're going to stay on that and keep you all posted. But they're keeping it very private right now. There is an outpouring all over the world as this news is reverberating everywhere, a huge loss for the music industry.

But it has been a very tough past year for Sinead O'Connor, a mother of four. She lost one of her children, Shane, to suicide last year. And she was hospitalized shortly after and it was a devastating moment. And for all parents out there, obviously, we can all relate to just how awful that was for her.

[15:25:05]

And she has been open about her mental health struggles and all of the issues that she has had over the years. And she's tried to help people by sharing what she's gone through. And she has made music to help people, but she's also shared that, whether it's on social media, in the book that she put out. There was a movie about her life that came out last year. And she's entered rehab and she had talked about those things.

And obviously, besides talking about mental health issues to help others to know that they're not alone, she never shied away from controversy. And I want to tell you, she told The New York Times, and I really loved reading this, in 2021, when asked about that famous - infamous moment on Saturday Night Live when she ripped up that photo of Pope John Paul II, they asked her about that. And she said, "I am not sorry I did it. It was brilliant." And I think that that speaks to who Sinead was. She was not afraid to

be herself and not afraid to stand up to those in power and for what she believed in.

SANCHEZ: And Chloe, you mentioned the passing of her son some 18 months ago dying by suicide. One of her final posts on social media was about him. It seemed like it was something that, as you noted, tormented her.

MELAS: She writes in - so there were a bunch of tweets that came out on an unverified Twitter account that CNN - we wrote about at the time. And in that, she talked about how her son had taken his life and just how she didn't want to live anymore and how hard this was for her and how she wanted to follow in his footsteps.

Later, we were able to report that she was hospitalized. And she came out on this Twitter account, and she said, "I'm sorry I didn't mean those things. I'm going to seek help." But as any parent, like I said, can understand, obviously, that was a tremendous loss for her and it has been a very tough year.

Now, we don't know the circumstances of Sinead's death, but her family, they're asking for privacy right now as they deal with this tragic loss.

SANCHEZ: Marc Malkin, to you now, obviously, Sinead O'Connor, as Chloe noted, someone who was unafraid of controversy, unafraid of the backlash that taking a stand on the issues that she was passionate about would bring. Reflect for us on her life, her art and her legacy.

MARC MALKIN, SENIOR EDITOR, VARIETY: I think her legacy, obviously, first and foremost, is going to be her voice. She wasn't just a singer. She was a vocalist. Her voice was haunting. It - just listening to right here on CNN, hearing that voice, it brings back such memories for me.

I mean, this was my sweet spot of growing up in the '80s and '90s. And this was a woman who said, you know what, I have a problem with people in power and I'm going to show it. To what Chloe said to the SNL performance where she ripped up Pope John Paul II's photo, that was groundbreaking at the time. This is long before really investigations were going on in the Catholic Church. And she said, I'm not going to take it anymore and we need to do something about it.

And also to Chloe's point, I think one of her legacies is going to be her openness about her struggles with drug addiction, substance abuse, mental illness, seeking help. Sadly, we would see a lot of her struggles play out in real time on social media and I know there were many times in my newsroom where people were wondering what was going on, what was she trying to tell people.

I spoke earlier to someone who worked with her closely a few years ago on a soundtrack for a movie, and they just said she was like a fragile bird, which is just so interesting, this fragile bird, though, who had this voice not only musically, but politically and socially.

SANCHEZ: Marc Malkin, Chloe Melas, thanks so much for being with us.

We still have plenty more news to get to on a busy afternoon at CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments. Stay with us.

(The Emperor's New Clothes by Sinead O'Connor)

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