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Today's Special Counsel Trump Investigation Grand Jury Deliberations; Second Quarter of GDP Increased by 2.4%; Second Quarter of U.S. Economy Saw Stronger Growth Than Anticipated; McConnell Fallen Numerous Times This Year, According to Sources; Judge Hesitant to Accept Revised Plea Bargain, Putting Hunter Biden's Plea Deal On Hold; Concerns Raised by Hunter Biden's Plea Agreement Put On Hold by Judge; Republicans Intend to Take Advantage of the Uncertainty Surrounding Hunter Biden's Plea Deal; Interview with Cardozo School of Law Professor and Southern District of New York Former Federal Prosecutor Jessica Roth. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 27, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:00]

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Recession? What recession? This morning, a new report shows the U.S. economy is picking up steam and we've got the details.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: New concerns about the health of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. CNN has learned overnight that the senator has fallen multiple times this year.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Wagner Chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is spotted inside Russia for the first time since leading an armed rebellion against that country's military leadership. He's in the same city as Vladimir Putin.

I'm Omar Jimenez with John Berman and Rahel Solomon. This is "CNN News Central."

BERMAN: All right. We have breaking news. A grand jury spotting. This is at the federal courthouse in Washington D.C. CNN has seen jurors and prosecutors who have been working on the case, the investigation into Donald Trump surrounding the 2020 election. This is the first time we have seen them there this week.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us. Katelyn, what could this mean?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John, any time that the federal grand jury over in D.C. that has been looking at January 6th and the 2020 election. Any time that they gather in the courthouse at this point they could be asked to approve an indictment, specifically one against the Former President Donald Trump. That's because 11 days ago, Donald Trump got the target letter from the Justice Department indicating to him that he was very likely to be charged. You're right. The grand jury was not in earlier this week. They met a couple of times last week and saw a couple of different witnesses that they had spoken to throughout the day who gave them testimony. But now we are still waiting to see what happened. Our own Casey Gannon is over there watching the courthouse. She has seen not only the grand juries coming in to that secret proceeding convening this morning, but also, she's seen a person working with the special counsel's office over there at the courthouse.

And so now, we watch to see what else might come today. Will there be other witnesses? Who else could the special counsel's office even want to talk to still for this grand jury? There have been so many witnesses that have gone in, John, including Mike Pence, the former vice president under Trump. Many different top people from his White House such as his Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. Cassidy Hutchinson, that star witness at the House Select Committee hearings. Pat Cipollone, his White House counsel. And then that doesn't even include the fake electors who have testified, the state officials who have spoken to the special counsel's office.

So, a lot that the grand jury could be looking at and we are waiting to see exactly what they do next. John.

BERMAN: What we know is that they are there and for there to be an indictment they would have to be there to vote. So, we are now on indictment watch. It may not happen. We just don't know. But Katelyn Polantz, please keep us posted. You'll be working today, no doubt.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, John. New numbers coming in this morning on the state of the U.S. economy. And they show the U.S. economy grew at an annualized rate of 2.4 percent for the second quarter, and that is better than expected. It also shows no signs of a recession.

I want to bring in CNN's Christine Romans now to break it all down. Christine, again, better than expected. Becoming a bit of a theme here. What does the number tell us?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF CORRESPONDENT AND CNN ANCHOR, EARLY START: And picking up from last quarter, quite frankly. So, the economy picking up speed. So many people have been saying that our word to watch is recession, but the R word in this economy is resilience.

SOLOMON: Resilience.

ROMANS: You've got exports and consumer spending accounting for this. Consumers are still driving these economy, and American factories are churning out goods that we're sending overseas. So, these are two things that really help that number here.

And this is despite inflation that is still too high and those punishing interest rate hikes. We had another one yesterday, another 25 basis points. What that means for everybody watching is that the money you borrow is going to be more expensive, but also the money in your bank account is getting a higher interest rate too. So, that's how we all feel what is -- what are those higher interest rates. But it's, honestly, quite surprising. The U.S. economy is still doing so well despite all those higher rates and inflation that is cooling but still too high also.

SOLOMON: Yes. We heard Powell talk about the resilience of the consumer.

ROMANS: Right.

SOLOMON: Talk to me a bit about how consumer spending really fuels the U.S. economy. It's two-thirds of GDP.

ROMANS: Yes.

SOLOMON: And we have such a strong labor market that that could be feeding a lot of what we see.

ROMANS: That's exactly right. When people have a job, they feel confident in spending their money. And we know that there are all these open jobs in America and a very tight labor market still. So, that's a really important underpinning here. We also know that American consumers have more money in their bank accounts today than they did in 2019 before the pandemic. They're spending down that excess savings, quite frankly.

[09:05:00]

But they still are in better shape today than they were before the pandemic with the excess savings, all of those stimulus checks, child tax credits. All of those things really, sort of, boosted the bottom line for people. And that's one of the reasons you've been seeing so much such strong consumer spending.

Another thing about consumer spending is there's this warp effect from COVID. People may be pulling back in some areas, but they're spending on things that they want to. I mean, the "Barbie" movie, Beyonce concerts. I mean, there are funflation --

SOLOMON: Traveling.

ROMANS: It's a real thing. Absolutely. I mean, you know, you saw United Airlines say that their profit tripled because people are digging into their pockets and they are going on trips. So, we are still seeing a consumer that's pretty resilient as well.

SOLOMON: And remarkable. I'm going to add another R word to it.

ROMANS: OK.

SOLOMON: Remarkable. Christine Romans, thank you.

John.

BERMAN: My favorite R word is Romans.

SOLOMON: What about Rahel?

BERMAN: Rahel.

SOLOMON: Oh, my goodness.

BERMAN: That -- a tie. It's a tie. Romans and Rahel. Rival (ph) or rut ro (ph) is the case maybe.

ROMANS: Uh-oh. Right.

SOLOMON: Yes.

BERMAN: Clearly.

New overnight, CNN has learned that Senate Republican Leader, Mitch McConnell, has fallen multiple times this year. More times than we knew about. This new reporting comes after McConnell froze midsentence during his weekly news conference.

CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is on the Hill this morning with this new reporting. Manu, what are you learning?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I've been told by multiple sources that this has happened on multiple occasions this year. Remember, Mitch McConnell is 81 years old, who walks with a slight limp, is a survivor of polio from time as a child. Has had issues walking for much of his life and it's been more pronounced this the year.

There have been at least three instances that we know of this year through our reporting in some and the one, a very public one, that occurred back in March when he fell and he hit his head, suffered a concussion, broke some ribs, he was out from the Senate for six weeks.

But there are two other incidents that happened as well. One from -- in February when he was traveling overseas with a U.S. delegation to meet with the president of Finland. As he was getting out of his car walking, it was a bit of a snowy day, I was told, he slipped and fell. He was not injured. He walked and you see him brushed himself off, he didn't seek any immediate medical attention there and continued on with his meeting.

And then we -- that major incident that I referred to in March that we know about. And then later the -- another one that occurred just this month, or over this month, when he was getting off the plane at Reagan National Airport. He was walking off the plane and he did fall as well, I am told. Now, that -- after that incident, he returned to the Capitol and continued his work day.

Now, this all came before the incident we saw yesterday in which Senator McConnell was at his press conference, made some remarks, and then suddenly froze for some time. And then came back and later answered questions, including one from myself asking him what happened there. He said that he is fine. He later told reporters again that he is fine but he has not yet explained what happened yesterday exactly. What was the actual root cause of the reason why he froze and whether that had anything to do with that fall from earlier this year, any other lingering health issues.

The -- his office had said that he felt lightheaded, which is the reason why he stepped aside at yesterday's press conference. But no doubt questions continue to persist about the 81-year-old Republican leader. He says he's fine, but also how long will he stay as Republican leader and as -- in his seat as his term expires at the end of 2026, and he's Republican leader until the end of this Congress. What will he do next Congress? John.

BERMAN: Yes. And look, I know there is concern for the health of Senator McConnell well outside politics as well. People just want to make sure he's doing okay. Manu Raju, thank you so much for that reporting. Keep us posted.

Omar.

JIMENEZ: Yes, John. A lot of scary factors there. So, joining us now is CNN Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Now, Sanjay, obviously, you know, you're not there in person. This is not someone you are treating, you're not able to see everything that you would if you were treating Mitch McConnell in person. But from your vantage point, what are some of the concerning factors that you see?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you, first of all that video is really important to look at, and I imagine doctors -- his doctors would look at that to see if they could see any clues as to what happened there. I -- it's concerning, Omar. I think there's no question, anyone can see that.

If you look at the timeline, specifically just to give context, it happened just before 2:00 yesterday. He, essentially, was speechless, you know, in that state where he wasn't doing anything for 23 seconds before someone asked him if he was OK. And then it was 32 seconds before he was led away from the podium. At that point, he was moving on his own and everything, which was a good sign.

So, it was a long, sort of, episode with a quick recovery, and I think that's important. It could be a lot of different things. I mean, it could be common things being common, you know, just dehydration, medication interaction, feeling under the weather. But the thing is, with something like this, you do have to rule out potentially more problematic things. Was this a mini stroke, something known as a TIA, or a mini seizure, which is something that can look that way as well?

[09:10:00]

So, that's why it's concerning and he needs to be checked out. He is probably been seeing his doctors all along, you know, especially since March. But that was an episode that was quite obvious yesterday, Omar.

JIMENEZ: And of course, as our Manu Raju reported, sort of, documenting previous instances maybe not to this degree is obviously something else their doctors will likely be keeping an eye on. Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

Rahel. SOLOMON: All right, Omar. Thank you.

Coming up for us, plea deal on pause. The future of Hunter Biden's plea agreement up in the air as federal prosecutors and lawyers for the president's son try to clarify the details.

And the man who attempted to lead an armed mutiny against Russia's military chiefs, Yevgeny Prigozhin, spotted in public in Russia for the first time since that failed coup. Where exactly he was seen and why it's raising eyebrows.

Also, an injured driver trapped by flames pulled to safety by a FedEx driver. The daring rescue caught on camera. We'll be right back.

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[09:15:00]

BERMAN: This morning, federal prosecutors and lawyers for Hunter Biden are beginning the process of clarifying the plea agreement deal that was put on hold by a federal judge.

CNN's Kara Scannell is in Wilmington, Delaware this morning. First of all, Kara, what a day. I mean, that was something yesterday watching all of that unfold. We appreciate you being there and walking us through it minute by minute because this thing was a mess. Where does that leave things this morning?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, at the end of the day ended with Hunter Biden pleading not guilty to those charges with his plea agreement up in the air. The judge telling both sides about the prosecution and Biden's team. They need to do work. They need to -- they have 30 days to file legal briefs on this.

And there were a couple of issues that she really honed in on, on these agreements. Remember there are two agreements. One was for the tax misdemeanor charge, that was the plea agreement where he would plead guilty to those two charges.

Now, she had questions about the scope of immunity included in that and really poked holes through it, revealing a disagreement between the prosecution and Biden's team. So, she wanted them to really solidify what was covered in that. You know, in part because she told Hunter Biden, you know, she knew he was eager to wrap this up, but she also wanted to make sure what he was pleading guilty to. That he understood the terms of those deals.

So, that'll be something that they were hammering out in court yesterday. Limiting the immunity in this deal to just the tax charges, gun charges and drug use charges. Not a blanket immunity from everything that the government had been looking for the five years that they were investigating Hunter Biden.

But also, she had questions about the gun diversion, that was this deal where Hunter Biden would essentially avoid prosecution for possessing a gun while he was addicted to a controlled substance. He's been very public about his struggles with cocaine and other substance abuse.

So, in that deal, the judge had questions about the constitutionality of it. So, she wants legal briefings on that issue of whether she should play a role in this. She said most of the time needs diversion agreements are between the parties, but the -- both sides said that they wanted to give her a role in case there was a dispute over whether he breached it because she would be a neutral arbiter.

She was saying she's not sure as someone in the judicial branch that she should have a role in an executive branch function. So, she wanted some legal briefings on that, saying she wasn't comfortable approving this deal if it wasn't constitutionally sound.

In some ways this is -- it could be good news for Hunter Biden to make sure that this deal is solidified and couldn't be challenged if there is a change in administration. But certainly, it is not where they expect it to be. So, 30 days to file the briefs and then we'll see if the judge brings everyone back in here or if she rules on the papers. John.

BERMAN: It's going to be an uncomfortable time for everyone involved. This is not what they were expecting. Not at all. Kara Scannell, thank you so much for being there.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: Well, this morning several Republican members of Congress are aiming to capitalize on the confusion surrounding Hunter Biden's plea agreement. This is after being sharply critical of the Justice Department's deal.

I want to bring in CNN's Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox. She is up on Capitol Hill. Lauren, good morning. So, what are you hearing?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, yesterday we talked to a number of conservatives, close allies of Former President Donald Trump who said that the reason this all fell apart was because it was a sweetheart deal to begin with. As Kara just explained, there's a lot more nuance to what the judge's concerns were with this deal. But here's what one Republican, Matt Gaetz, said to me yesterday about what he thought happened in the courtroom.

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REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I guess when analyzing the Hunter Biden plea arrangement, one would ask the question, would you take an inoculation if it didn't deter the virus? And in this case, the virus coming for Hunter Biden is a lot more severe than a few tax filings. Indicting Hunter Biden over tax issues would be like charging Jeffrey Dahmer with littering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And of course, there's a lot of questions about specifically what Republicans are going to do from here. Obviously, over the last several days, Republican leaders have been talking about potentially opening up an impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. Obviously, there is no direct tie they've been able to show between President Biden and his son Hunter Biden.

But, you know, the House Judiciary Committee wants to hear from David Weiss about the investigation. And Weiss has said that he doesn't typically want to talk about an ongoing investigation, which he made clear yesterday in court, was still ongoing. But that he does want to clear up some of the misconceptions that were brought to the forefront by some IRS whistleblowers, he's saying.

So, there's a huge question mark of where house Republicans go after this. But what you saw from them yesterday was just saying that they believe this fell apart because it was a sweetheart deal. Rahel.

[09:20:00]

SOLOMON: Yes, Lauren, as you point out, a huge question about who the Justice Department could make available if, in fact, this process is still ongoing. Lauren Fox, live for us at Capitol Hill, thank you.

Omar.

JIMENEZ: Well, Rahel, bottom line, U.S. District Judge Maryellen Noreika is the one who controls the fate of Hunter Biden's plea deal. She was appointed to the bench she serves on now by Donald Trump in 2017 with Democratic support. A Senate voice vote confirmed her in 2018. And this isn't her first Biden related case. Earlier this year, she tossed out part of a defamation lawsuit involving Hunter Biden's laptop. Judge Noreika set the case brought by the owner of a computer repair shop to Delaware superior court.

As for her political spending, it's been bipartisan. According to records, she's donated more than $15,000 to candidates dating back to 1999. In 2008, she gave $1,000 to Hillary Clinton's quest to become Democratic presidential nominee, but later donated $2,300 to the 2008 Republican Nominee John McCain. And she stuck with the Republicans in 2012, giving $2,500 to Mitt Romney's White House bid. Republican Senators Tom Cotton and Rick Santorum are also on her donation list, as well as the Senate Democrat's Campaign Arm, the DSCC in 2009.

John.

BERMAN: Quite a mix.

With us now is Former Federal Prosecutor Jessica Roth. OK. So, I want to start at the end, if I can right now. Because you have these federal prosecutors and lawyers for Hunter Biden who need to fix things. How hard will it be for them to -- I want to say an-eff (ph), to uncomplicate this situation and get it back before the judge?

JESSICA ROTH, PROFESSOR, CARDOZO SCHOOL OF LAW AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Well, the judge sent them to home to confer and to hammer out a deal that would be explicit in terms of what protections were being provided to Hunter Biden as in exchange for his entering into this guilty plea. I thought it was really important that the judge identified that there had not been a true meeting of the minds about what immunity he was being given.

And that's really important because if there hasn't been a meeting of the minds then Hunter Biden could later come back and say his plea was not knowing and voluntary and he could seek to withdraw it. Or if the government sought to prosecute him for crimes that he thought he was getting protected for but they didn't think he was, then there could be an argument that such prosecutions were barred by the terms of the plea agreement. So, I thought it was really important that the judge identified that issue.

So, it looked like by the end of the hearing, they had a meeting of the minds. Now, they have to have that reflected in the agreement. On the other issue she identified which was whether or not she could play a role with respect to whether or not he had satisfied the conditions of the deferred prosecution agreement for the gun charge, that's something they're going to have to brief for her to her satisfaction.

If they want to stick with that term, she raised a constitutional question based on separation of powers. They may not be able to address that to her satisfaction. They're going to have to go back and look at the law, I think this is actually really important point that she raised. If they can't satisfy her, they may to take out that part of that portion of the agreement.

BERMAN: Yes, or just make it be prosecutors who oversee --

ROTH: And that's --

BERMAN: -- the diversion (ph) program.

ROTH: -- and that's usually what happens.

BERMAN: Right.

ROTH: It's a prosecutorial decision. But I thought that Hunter Biden's attorneys made it quite clear why they wanted to the judge involved, which is to have this neutral party in the event that the Department of Justice is under a different administration.

BERMAN: So, you know, we heard Omar talk about political donations from both parties -- or to both parties from this judge here. And I know people are looking it for possible political motivations one way or the other here. When you look at what happened yesterday, do you see politics at play or do you just see administration?

ROTH: I don't see any politics involved. I thought that the judge was doing her job as a neutral, very involved judge. Making sure that the agreement -- that the plea agreement was clear. That this was going to be a knowing and voluntary plea if it went forward. And also, making sure that there were no legal flaws in the agreement that she was being asked to sign off on. I actually thought she was being diligent. I thought it reflected that she took the job seriously and I didn't see any whiff of politics in terms of how she was approaching this.

BERMAN: Look, I know both prosecutors and Hunter Biden's team wanted to walk out of there with this thing signed and finished yesterday. But did, in some respects, she do people a favor, maybe both sides?

ROTH: I think she was right to flag the issues that she did, because as I said, if it had gone forward without her having identified the fact that there was not a meeting of the minds about the scope of the immunity, there was going to be a real question down the road about Hunter Biden potentially seeking to withdraw the plea or raising issues if there was a future prosecution. So, I think it's good she ironed these things out.

BERMAN: Who -- was there a ball dropped? I was going to say who dropped the ball but that assumes that the ball dropped? Was there a ball dropped here?

ROTH: It was surprising that there had been an issue that was not hammered out in advance that she identified.

BERMAN: What gets me, as you say, an issue. This is, sort of, the issue. The scope of the immunity --

ROTH: Yes.

BERMAN: -- when you're forging an immunity deal is the thing.

ROTH: It's not clear what happened. It would appear that there was something that was not hammered out that clearly should have been hammered out. As you said, it is among the most important aspects of a plea agreement. I don't know what happened here.

BERMAN: How long will this take them to fix, do you think. I mean, they have 30 days, it doesn't take the full 30 days.

ROTH: By the end of the hearing, it appeared that they had a meeting of the minds about this issue. They'll have to go back and make sure that that holds. On the other issue, that may be harder and that's, I think, is going to take more time.

[09:25:00]

BERMAN: All right. Jessica, Roth, thank you so much --

ROTH: Thank you.

BERMAN: -- for helping us understand this to the extent that we can because there's still a lot of unknowns here.

Omar.

JIMENEZ: John, a whole lot coming up. New developments in the Gilgo Beach murders. Who else investigators are talking to about suspected serial killer Rex Heuermann? Plus, new details about his life behind bars.

And the U.S. women's soccer team rallied a tie against the Netherlands during their second World Cup now. So, who do they face on their next quest for a threepeats?

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. Investigators tell CNN that they are talking to two additional sex workers who may have come into contact with accused Gilgo Beach serial killer, Rex Heuermann.

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