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Health Concerns For Mitch McConnell?; Record Temperatures; Interview With Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA); Trump Lawyers Meet With Special Counsel. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 27, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:08]

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: Happening right now, lawyers for President Trump meeting with special counsel Jack Smith and his team, as the grand jury in the case has convened. Could we see another federal indictment today?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: And record-breaking temperatures are scorching much of the country. Officials now forced to declare an emergency alert for the nation's largest power grid.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: So, recession, what recession, as Rahel Solomon asked. New economic numbers in beating expectations, the stock market looking to break a record that's lasted more than 100 years.

Sara and Kate are off today. I'm John Berman with Rahel Solomon and Omar Jimenez. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SOLOMON: And we begin with breaking news, lawyers for former President Donald Trump meeting with special counsel Jack Smith right now, as a potential third indictment looms, the meeting coming as the grand jury hearing evidence on the alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election meets inside a federal courthouse also right now.

Joining us now is CNN's Paula Reid and Katelyn Polantz.

Katelyn, you are outside the courthouse. This was a pretty big development. What more are we learning about this meeting?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right.

So this meeting is occurring as the grand jury has convened here at the federal courthouse in D.C., this grand jury that's been investigating Donald Trump, the 2020 election and January 6. And this meeting is one that had essentially always been a possibility out there, but it was very unclear whether something like this would happen.

So, if you look back at the timeline, 11 days ago, Donald Trump was told that he was very likely a target in this investigation. He very likely could be charged with crimes around his behavior after the 2020 election as he was trying to undermine the vote.

And then there often is an opportunity given to defense lawyers to come in and make their appeals, essentially, to prosecutors as to why their client shouldn't be indicted. And our team of reporters, we have been able to confirm this morning that that meeting is currently happening.

The Trump lawyers are meeting with special counsel Jack Smith and his team to talk about this looming set of charges against the former president that have not been approved yet. How that meeting resolves is going to be something really to watch today,Rahel.

And then, on top of that, we are still watching this grand jury. They have been at work for months. They have heard from many, many witnesses. They were in last Thursday and had even more witnesses to be wrapping up. And so now there is a question, is there more evidence they need to hear?

And will the Justice Department, with that meeting happening today with the Trump lawyers, will they want to present the possible indictment to the former -- about the former president at this time?

SOLOMON: It's interesting, Katelyn, because, as you say, the defense has the opportunity, but not necessarily the obligation, to meet, so very interesting that they are taking the opportunity.

Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much live for us outside of that courthouse.

I want to now bring in Paula Reid, because, Paula, what do we know about what the Trump team is expecting here?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, they expect that their client is going to be indicted. He has received that target letter Katelyn mentioned.

He was offered an opportunity to go before the grand jury. He declined that, and now they're taking a meeting with the special counsel. These are all the steps that typically precede an indictment. And it's highly unlikely that, given all the time and resources that has gone into this investigation, that his lawyers are going to be able to change the hearts and minds of these prosecutors.

If the former president is charged either today or next week when the grand jury is back, these defense attorneys are going to have to come up with a strategy to defend their client while he continues to campaign for the presidency.

[11:05:07]

What we have seen in the other criminal case brought by the special counsel down in Florida, the Mar-a-Lago documents case, is that the Trump team has just been of the mind that they need to delay, delay, delay until after the 2024 election.

Now, Rahel, it's unclear if that's going to be successful. There is currently a trial on the calendar for next year, though it's unlikely that date will hold. But this case, we have to wait to see the charges. It's not expected to deal with complicated matters. Like, classified materials would have to be reviewed.

But I think we have to see what charges, if any, are brought to really assess if they would be able to push any possible trial until after the election.

SOLOMON: Right, that trial date set for late May 2024. But before we can get there, we have to see what happens here.

Paula Reid, great to have you. Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: All right, joining us now is Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, of California. Congressman Swalwell was also an impeachment manager for Donald Trump's second impeachment and a former federal prosecutor.

And it's that last job I want to lead into first, which is, we know that Donald Trump's lawyers are meeting with federal prosecutors right now. I mean, what do you think is going on behind closed doors? And is there any chance they can talk them out of an indictment?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): John, yes, actually, I was a local prosecutor, but worked with grand juries.

And I can tell you, in any prosecution, what they are looking to do is to give them kind of like the last, best chance to make your case as to why an indictment should not occur, and, also, in many ways offer the target of the investigation an opportunity, if they have any evidence, if they want to sit before the grand jury, to do so, so that there's no questions, if an indictment comes down, as to the fairness here.

BERMAN: What do you think the most likely charge is to find success here against former President Trump, if, in fact, in indictment is handed up?

SWALWELL: Being responsible for aiming the mob at the Capitol.

As a guy who sat in the Capitol that day and tried to count the votes of the American people, we were stopped from doing that. It was a terrorizing experience to have to leave the Capitol with gas masks because a mob that Donald Trump assembled and incited and then aimed at the Capitol descended on the Capitol.

And so he could be on the hook for conspiracy to defraud the United States, essentially, every voter from having their vote counted. And, of course, we know that he's a guy that likes to obstruct justice. We have seen that in just the way that he publicly talks about things. And so I wouldn't be surprised if there's an obstruction of justice charge.

But, John, taking a step back, like every defendant in America, he is entitled to due process under the law and equal justice under the Constitution. He shouldn't be treated any better, any worse than anyone else.

BERMAN: Hold on. I want to come back to that point in just one second.

But when you were standing up there as an impeachment manager in February of 2021, did you think -- first of all, we didn't know whether or not there would be a investigation, a criminal investigation. But are you surprised that it's taken so long to get to this point?

SWALWELL: I credit the January 6, committee, because only once they really started to animate -- we didn't have much evidence when we were impeaching him, other than what he had said at the rally, and we went immediately into the trial.

And I think we laid the groundwork for the January 6 Committee to really spend over a year-and-a-half bringing in Donald Trump's colleagues -- these were all Republican witnesses -- to talk about his role. And I think that was the motivator for the DOJ to say, you know what, we may need to take a closer look at this.

BERMAN: So, if Donald Trump is charged, you say he should be treated no better or worse than any other defendant, which is something people have also said about Hunter Biden.

And you, along with everyone else, watched yesterday as this plea deal was put on hold by a federal judge who called the terms of the plea deal, I think some of the words she used specifically were unusual and atypical.

Do you think that a plea deal like that would have existed had it been for Hunter Brown, instead of Hunter Biden?

SWALWELL: It sure looks like it.

I will tell you about a guy named Roger Stone, who owed allegedly a million dollars in back taxes, and DOJ went after him civilly, and not criminally. I don't want Hunter to be treated any better or worse. He did attempt so far -- he's a private citizen, by the way -- to resolve this case and has paid the back taxes.

But, to me, my experience in something like this is, the judge wants to make sure both parties understand what they're agreeing to. And they're going to come back, I guess, in two to four weeks and try and resolve that. But at the end of the day, Hunter Biden has tried to accept responsibility.

No Democrat, when Hunter Biden was indicted, said that we should burn down the rule of law and that the prosecution is rigged. We accept the outcome because that's how the rule of law works. That's not what you're seeing from Donald Trump.

BERMAN: All right. You were a state prosecutor. You worked in a DA's office. I did not mean to call you a federal prosecutor. But I know for sure...

SWALWELL: Yes, don't demote me. Don't demote me. I did the real work. I -- yes. I did murder crimes. [11:10:00]

BERMAN: You were at one point a presidential candidate. That is a job that I know you held, was a one-time presidential candidate.

SWALWELL: Yes.

BERMAN: And I want to ask you about what your platform really was at the time when you launched your campaign, because it's once again come into focus. With the age of President Biden, with the age of Mitch McConnell.

I know you, along with everyone else, share concern over Mitch McConnell's health after the episode yesterday. But this is what you said when you were running for president four years ago. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SWALWELL: I was 6 years old when a presidential candidate came to the California Democratic Convention and said, it's time to pass the torch to a new generation of Americans. That candidate was then-Senator Joe Biden. Joe Biden was right when he said it was time to pass the torch to a new generation of Americans 32 years ago. He's still right today.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: OK, that was you then. By the way, you have aged gracefully over the last four years.

SWALWELL: Oh, thank you.

BERMAN: But, given the age of President Biden, given the age of Senator Mitch McConnell, given the age of many of the country's leaders, do you feel that it is time to pass the torch?

SWALWELL: Well, it's case by case. And he proved me wrong.

Joe Biden in his first two years passed the bipartisan Infrastructure and Jobs Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, that gun safety bipartisan legislation, has brought us out of COVID. And, by the way, John, he did all of that with a 50/50 Senate and a plus-five majority, with the help of Speaker Pelosi, in the House.

So I think he has said, judge me by my actions, and this is a man in action.

BERMAN: So, hang on to the torch, don't pass the torch? Because that's a big change. I mean, you were saying it was time for a generational change.

Do you see -- and Donald Trump is up there, too. I mean, do you feel it's time for a generational change in U.S. politics?

SWALWELL: Well, I look at who he's also enabled. And he pulled me aside in between the commercial break of that debate, said, "Nice line, wiseass."

And then he told me: "I promise, if I'm elected president, I'm going to bring in young people to lead the country."

And I think you have seen that with Mayor Buttigieg, who is Secretary Buttigieg, with Kamala Harris, who's just a little bit older than me and kind of -- I would say kind of in the same realm of generation.

And so, yes, he has brought many diverse voices, generationally, ethnically, religiously, gender-wise, to the table. And that's why he's been so successful.

BERMAN: Congressman Eric Swalwell, great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on NEWS CENTRAL.

SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Omar.

JIMENEZ: A lot going on this morning.

Moments ago, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell speaking on the Senate floor, as new concerns swirl about his health. CNN learning that the senator has fallen multiple times this year.

And it's not even the end of July, but it has already been declared the hottest month ever on record. And the blistering temperatures aren't letting up.

And Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin spotted inside Russia and in the same city as Vladimir Putin for the first time since leading a failed coup.

All that and more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:17:35]

BERMAN: The hottest month on record ever, it is this one, July 2023. And scientists say they're almost certain that these temperatures are the warmest the planet has seen in 120,000 years.

An emergency alert has been declared for the nation's largest power grid covering more than a dozen states from Michigan to North Carolina. That could impact 65 million people. Nationwide, about 150 million people are under heat alerts.

In Maricopa County in Arizona, temperatures reached a record of 118 degrees. And officials say 25 people have died from the heat so far.

Let's go to a steamy Washington, D.C.

Gabe Cohen is there.

Gabe, give us a sense of, how's it feel? It feel awesome this morning? (LAUGHTER)

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, I have to tell you, the good news is, we actually have a little cloud coverage this hour. A breeze is coming through.

According to my not-so-scientific measurement, it feels about 90 degrees right now. And so, if you look around, it's been quiet here on the National Mall, but we are seeing some folks coming around, some people wandering through, bike tours, things like that.

But, look, the temperatures are expected to spike, and spike dramatically and quickly this afternoon. It could hit 100 degrees here in Washington for the first time in seven years. And with the humidity, it's going to feel closer to 110 degrees today, tomorrow, even into Saturday.

And so the mayor here has issued this hot weather emergency. They are activating cooling centers, including -- including renting five public buses. I was trying to take a look, public buses much like the one that just passed us, that they're going to be stationing across the District really for the most vulnerable people, people who are living on the street, seniors, families that might not have access to air conditioning.

Take a listen to the message we received from emergency management.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER RODRIGUEZ, DIRECTOR, D.C. HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY: We're very concerned. And those health risks and mitigating them are paramount.

So, we want people to stay hydrated. We want people to make sure that, if they don't need to be outside doing strenuous activities, that they're not. Want you to check in on your neighbors. This is an unprecedented event. This is something that you should not take lightly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: And some of the folks we're seeing the most out here on the National Mall are workers, like the people working on the street behind me.

And, later this hour, we're expecting President Biden to make an announcement announcing several measures related to extreme heat, including asking the Department of Labor to issue a heat hazard alert to hopefully ramp up protections for workers like these -- John.

[11:20:11]

BERMAN: All right, Gabe Cohen, stay cool, if you can. Thank you so much -- Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, John, thank you. So, hot, clearly, there on the National Mall, also hot at the White House. In fact, President Biden expected to announce a plan to try to address the extreme weather we're seeing.

Arlette Saenz joins us from the White House, where it is also quite steamy. Looking good, nonetheless, Arlette.

So, what do we expect the president to say?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, in about an hour, President Biden is expected to lay out how he is trying to help communities grappling with this extreme heat.

And that includes rolling out some new actions that they are trying to take to help these communities protect themselves from the extreme heat. Now, as Gabe just mentioned, one of those items is asking the Department of Labor to issue a health hazard related to heat, and specifically trying to ramp up the enforcement to protect workers who are working in conditions where there is extreme heat.

Extreme heat is the number one cause of weather-related deaths in this country. And many of the jobs that are affected include farmworkers, construction workers, and also delivery workers. Additionally, the president will be rolling out $7 million of funding through NOAA to help communities improve weather forecasting.

There is also about $150 million that is going to be dedicated to water storage and climate resilience. That is really dedicated to some of the communities out West, like California and Colorado. But -- and, oftentimes, the president has pointed to these extreme weather events as moments where he believes that they have been exacerbated by climate change.

That is all likely to be discussed in this event today. He will also be meeting with the mayors of San Antonio and Phoenix, with Phoenix just hitting some record-level numbers in their temperatures yesterday.

SOLOMON: Yes, San Antonio and Phoenix has been so hard-hit these last three weeks or so. It's just been a relentless.

Arlette Saenz live for us in the White House.

Thank you, Arlette -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Rahel, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell was back on Capitol Hill today a day after he froze mid-sentence during a news conference.

Just moments ago, he spoke on the Senate floor with no signs of any after-effects from yesterday. And, overnight, we learned, though, McConnell has fallen multiple times this year.

CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is on the Hill right now.

Manu, thanks for being here. I know this was your reporting as well, but, of course, Mitch McConnell speaking today.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he is. But he's not answering any questions about what exactly happened yesterday.

I asked him about that at his press conference after he did freeze for some time and came back and answered questions, what happened, whether it was related to a fall that was highly publicized earlier this year, when he hit his head, had a concussion, broke some ribs, was out from the Senate for six weeks.

He said that he's fine. But he wouldn't explain the root cause of that moment. But I have learned from multiple sources that there have been more two other falls, at least, this year, one of which occurred in February. That was in Helsinki, when he was -- when McConnell was with a U.S. delegation meeting with the president of Finland.

He fell. It was snowy out. He got back up and he continued on with his meeting. Also, there was another fall that occurred earlier this month at Reagan National Airport. He was getting off the plane. He fell down. I'm told that he got back up, came back to the Capitol, continued to work.

Only that fall in March at the Washington hotel cause serious injury, but, nevertheless, a lot of questions in the aftermath of yesterday's moment, including from Republican senators, also the question about how long Senator McConnell will continue to lead a conference that he has led for some time, becoming the longest-serving party leader in history.

I put the question to a number of Republican senators, whether they believe Senator McConnell should continue as leader in the new Congress, which begins in 2025.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Well, I -- he said he's fine. I take him at face value. You heard him respond to questions yesterday. He was very crisp in his -- in his answers.

RAJU: Right. I mean, do you think there's enough support for him to stay as leader in the next Congress?

SEN. CYNTHIA LUMMIS (R-WY): He has a tremendous amount of support.

RAJU: Even if -- you think, next Congress, if he ran for a leader, he would get the job?

LUMMIS: Well, I think that that's speculation that's not necessary right now.

SEN. TED BUDD (R-NC): But it was also very icy at the time, so -- and it could happen any of us.

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: And he -- did he just get it back up? What...

BUDD: Up, and we had the meeting, and it was a great meeting.

RAJU: I mean, were you concerned about his health at that moment?

BUDD: I mean, look, we're -- where any of us take a fall. I'm older than 50. So all of us are concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, that last comment comes from Senator Ted Budd, who was on that trip to Finland and witnessed Senator McConnell falling, but said that he got back up, and he continued the meeting.

But since Senator John Thune's comments, though, Omar, at the beginning of that clip, I asked him again after he left that meeting whether or not he believes McConnell should, in fact, run for leader again in the new Congress. Thune said that he's not worried about the next Congress. He's worried about what's happening on the Senate floor right now, so not answering that question.

[11:25:03]

And, obviously, of course, Thune could be one of McConnell's potential successors, so a lot of speculation in the aftermath of that moment, as the 81-year-old Mitch McConnell says he's fine and will continue on. But how long will he stay in the Senate is a question that a lot of his colleagues have here on Capitol Hill -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: And, Manu, it's, of course, a question that's going to come. At some point, they won't be able to avoid it.

Manu Raju, thank you so much for that -- Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, Omar, coming up for us, we are following new developments out of D.C., Trump lawyers meeting with the special counsel over the January 6 investigation.

We will have the latest details coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]