Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Mitch McConnell's Health Status?; Yevgeny Prigozhin Reportedly Spotted In Russia; Trump Attorneys Meet With Special Counsel. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired July 27, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:34]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Delay tactic? New developments at the federal courthouse in D.C. today, a battle between Donald Trump's legal team and the special counsel investigating the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Our teams are on site for the very latest.

And he's back, apparently. The man who led an arm mutiny through the streets of Russia is spotted inside Russia for the first time since that brief uprising. Vladimir Putin not known for his forgiving side, so why is Yevgeny Prigozhin going so public?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, the nation's largest power grid declaring an emergency alert, as the nation swelters under a heat wave. What that means for more than 65 million people relying on the company to keep them cool.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: Just a short time ago, Donald Trump's attorneys wrapped up a meeting face to face with special counsel Jack Smith.

Sources tell CNN that Trump's lawyers hoped that sit-down could delay a potential indictment in Smith's investigation of efforts to overturn the 2020 election. But we are told they got no information on timing.

The stakes of this couldn't be higher. Right now, the federal grand jury in that case is gathered for the first time since last week.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz she's outside the federal courthouse.

So, Katelyn, what did Trump's lawyers go into this meeting hoping to get? And what did they leave with?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Jim, at very least, they were hoping for some sort of delay, to put things on hold, as they have been trying to do in a lot of different avenues, as the special counsel has been investigating Donald Trump and bringing cases against him.

But, in this circumstance, they left that meeting this morning with no indication of timing or even if it were a certainty at this point that an indictment would be handed up by the grand jury against Donald Trump.

Now, to step back a second, though, it is very likely Donald Trump is going to be charged for his activity, his -- perhaps some of the things he was saying, what he was doing after the 2020 election as he was trying to undermine the vote that he lost in battleground states and then also disrupt Congress from certifying Joe Biden as the next president.

But we don't really know exactly how the next couple hours or even days, weeks will be playing out with that. That's because this grand jury has been at work for a very long time. Special counsel Jack Smith was appointed last November. And then they have heard from lots of witnesses.

They have been meeting regularly on Tuesdays and Thursdays here at the federal courthouse. Some of the witnesses are so high-profile, it includes people like former Vice President Mike Pence testifying specifically about his conversations with Donald Trump, as well as other things that he was witnessing up to and even on January 6.

And then, in the last week or so, we really have been at the endgame here, right? July 16 is the day that Donald Trump received that target letter saying that he's very likely to be charged in this case. Last week, the grand jury was in again twice hearing from additional witnesses, even bringing back a witness they had heard from before.

And now after, taking a break on Tuesday, having a day off, the grand jury has convened again. Prosecutors -- as that meeting appeared to be wrapping up with the special counsel's office and Trump's lawyers, prosecutors started to come over to the courthouse.

And the grand jury, they're done with their lunch break already. They even had lunch early today. And so now we are just watching to see if any other activity emerges from the courthouse and if an indictment is presented to them and goes through the approval process before a federal judge.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's important to state the facts as you just did. He lost the election and then attempted to overturn it based on false claims of fraud.

Why might his lawyers hold this meeting now?

POLANTZ: Well, there's a couple of different reasons.

One, they're given the opportunity to. This is the sort of thing, the sort of meeting that happens after a defendant or a potential defendant gets a target letter indicating they're likely to be charged. And defense lawyers often want to take the opportunity to make their case to the Justice Department and say, we're going to fight you to trial, and these are the sorts of things we want to fight on.

[13:05:14]

In this situation, this January 6 investigation, this is a very different case than even the two cases where Donald Trump has been charged criminally in New York state and in Florida federally, because he was president at the time. There's all kinds of issues that the court may need to deal with.

And he was also receiving quite a lot of conversations and advice from lawyers who he had employed. And so all of that could be something that they're talking about, as well as what I mentioned before, that request to potentially delay things, or at least that the Trump lawyers want to try and delay things with this meeting -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, history may be made in those walls just behind you there.

Katelyn, thanks so much.

I do want to go to CNN Kristen Holmes now. She is near Trump's New Jersey golf club.

Kristen, sources have told CNN that Trump was initially opposed to having this meeting, based in part on his belief that it was going to happen anyway. Why the change? Why did he send his lawyers in today?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's why Katelyn kind of outlined it, that, given the opportunity, the lawyers thought that this would be the best thing for them to do.

And I am told that this meeting lasted about an hour and, as Katelyn said, that they came out of it without any indication or any notification of when or if an indictment would come. And that is notable, because Trump's team has been saying that they believe that Trump will be indicted in this case, since he received that target letter and shortly before, after really changing their minds days, months of this investigation.

At one point, they told me that they believe that he would be an unindicted co-conspirator. At one point, they said they didn't think he was going to be charged at all. But now that they believe that this was coming, they decided to reach out for a meeting with Jack Smith. And I am told that they had certain questions, which they did not get into with me, sources did not get into with me, but that they wanted to present to Jack Smith and his team to try to get some answers.

But, right now, his team is just waiting. They are also trying to read the tea leaves here, trying to read what's going on in between the lines of these various reports as to timing, if it's going to happen today or not. And I will tell you, I have spoken to a number of people, all of whom are close to Donald Trump, all of whom believe that he will inevitably be indicted.

But what the range of the timing on this is all over the map, which just gives you an indication of where they are. They're just kind of grasping at straws, trying to figure out what exactly comes next.

SCIUTTO: Well, watch your TRUTH Social posts, Kristen, as I'm sure you would.

Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

And, Boris, we have covered a lot of newsworthy days, and this is certainly one of them, potentially.

SANCHEZ: Yes, a potential third indictment for Donald Trump, and this one significant because it could be for trying to overturn the 2020 election.

Let's get some legal advice now from former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

Renato, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. Always great to see you.

The reporting is that Donald Trump's legal team is apparently in that meeting trying to delay the special counsel from an indictment. I think, first and foremost, it speaks to the fact that they believe an indictment is coming. It seems imminent.

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes.

And, look, I would expect that, because we have been told and I believe Donald Trump has admitted that he's received a target letter. And so, if he's received his target letter, that means he's going to be indicted. In fact, the meaning of that is that the DOJ, the prosecutor has made a determination that they are likely to indict you.

And I will just say, in my career, when I was a prosecutor for almost a decade, I never sent a target letter out without an indictment. But the defense is going to try to potentially shape that indictment, try to narrow it, of course, as you mentioned, Boris tried to delay it.

And so, when they're given this opportunity -- and that's customary for the defense to be given this opportunity -- generally, defense attorneys always take this opportunity, and it does present a small amount of delay, but I would say an indictment is coming very, very soon, even if it doesn't happen today.

SANCHEZ: So what would be the benefit of delaying? We can speculate about the politics of it and a potential Republican debate coming in the next few weeks.

But, legally, from a legal perspective, what would be the benefit of a delayed indictment?

MARIOTTI: Well, a few things.

So, first of all, one benefit is just that it pushes the prosecution back a few weeks. It gives the defense more time to prepare. In this conversation, they may learn some things about the indictment, about what the theories are. They can start preparing for those.

It also generally in -- for most clients, it helps them get themselves prepared for the logistics of dealing with an indictment, which is not a fun experience, a very difficult experience. For Trump, of course, there's something bigger than looms, Boris, which is that the election is coming up, right?

[13:10:00]

And, ultimately, his main strategy here is going to be to try to run out the clock, get reelected president, and then potentially appoint somebody who's going to quash these investigations.

So I think that definitely plays into it as well.

SANCHEZ: Also significant, Renato, the fact that the special counsel himself, Jack Smith, was in this meeting.

What's in it for prosecutors? What do they get out of sitting down with the defense's lawyers -- or, rather, with the defense team?

MARIOTTI: Yes, a couple things.

So, one thing they're going to learn is, what the defense's arguments are in advance. So, when I was the prosecutor, I loved these meetings. I would have somebody there taking very careful notes. And I would learn what their perspectives were. I'd learned what their spin was going to be. I would learn what evidence they thought was important.

And, usually, I would make tweaks to my indictment to try to deal with some of their concerns, at the very least. But it's also, in most cases -- and I think, here, there's certainly been so much consideration, I doubt there'd be a change of heart.

But I do think that, often, these can generate some sort of plea negotiations or some sort of an agreement of sorts. I don't think that's going to happen here, given who Trump is and how all of this has played out. But there are fairness reasons why prosecutors also engaged in this sort of exercise.

SANCHEZ: Well, Renato, as you are speaking, we're getting word that Donald Trump has posted on social media saying that his attorneys had a productive meeting with the special counsel.

Obviously, no announcement to this point that he's officially been indicted. Part of the conversation in that meeting, though, was about logistics, according to our reporting. If there is an indictment, when it comes down, what does it look like?

We saw how it went down in Manhattan. We saw how it went down in Miami. How do you envision something like that going down here in the nation's capital?

MARIOTTI: Well, that's a great question, Boris, especially since the conduct at issue involved a riot, an insurrection, an attack on the Capitol that was incited by Donald Trump or that he certainly played a role in inciting.

And so, of course, there's going to be concerns about security, logistics, booking, for example, right? There was questions about whether there'd be a booking photo and how that would be handled. So there's no question that there are issues in this case that there aren't in the typical case.

And so, if that's the case, if this was primarily a conversation about logistics and about those details, we could see an indictment sooner, rather than later, maybe even today, because, there, the discussion wasn't the typical discussion between the defense and the prosecution.

SANCHEZ: Renato, Renato, hold that thought for a moment, if you don't mind. Just hold that thought for a moment.

We have the post here from Donald Trump on TRUTH Social.

He writes -- quote -- "My attorneys had a productive meeting with the DOJ this morning explaining in detail that I did nothing wrong, was advised by many lawyers, and that an indictment of me would only go -- further destroy our country. No indication of notice was given during the meeting. Do not trust the fake news on anything."

OK.

Renato, what do you make of this statement coming from the former president, saying that he has spoken to many lawyers, that he did nothing wrong, arguing that an indictment would only go further, in his words, in destroying our country? How does that in any way shape a prosecution?

MARIOTTI: I think a couple of things.

One thing that I think it actually does is shape the defense. I have to think that Trump's lawyers know that, no matter what they tell him, he's going to give a version of that to the public on TRUTH Social.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MARIOTTI: And so one thing that I suspect is that what we're getting here is, is a reflection of some of the things his lawyers told him about that meeting.

I think, from the prosecution perspective, they have to be concerned that Trump's strategy is going to be to try to hang the jury by shaping public opinion against the prosecution. And, potentially, they have to be concerned about violence or about another attempt to incite people to whether it's attack the courthouse or Congress or something else.

They have to at least be concerned about that. And I think that that's -- there are certainly security measures that are going to be in place that are going to try to ensure that. I suspect that won't happen. It didn't happen in Manhattan when Trump encouraged people to come and protest.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MARIOTTI: There wasn't much of a turnout. I don't expect it here, but it's possible.

SANCHEZ: Yes, obviously, security will be top of mind in the nation's capital, as you noted, the same area where Donald Trump led his supporters to the Capitol on January 6.

Renato Mariotti, thanks so much for the perspective. Please stand by as we await more news -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: We will continue to stand by on that story.

At the same time, we are following two major developments in Russia and its ongoing war on Ukraine. Yevgeny Prigozhin has reportedly been spotted inside Russia, this for the first time since his Wagner mercenary fighters launched a failed mutiny last month.

And, maybe even more surprising, Prigozhin was spotted in the same Russian city as Vladimir Putin at the time, of course, the target of that armed rebellion. We're going to have more on that in just a moment.

[13:15:05]

At the same time, Ukraine says it is ramping up its counteroffensive after months of slow progress. One U.S. official says Ukraine is now committing the main bulk of its forces to that assault.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in London.

Nic, I understand that the Russian president commented on the counteroffensive. Just last week, President Zelenskyy himself said that the reason it was proceeding slowly was that Western weapons had taken some time to arrive. Now it seems like they're making a larger push. But what did Putin have to say?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Putin is playing down the gains that Ukraine seems to be making along that southern front south of Zaporizhzhia, the important front that would push towards the Azov Sea and cut off Crimea from Russia.

Putin is saying, look, Ukraine definitely intensifying the fight, that -- for sure, that's happening, but they put 50 vehicles into the fight, and we knocked out 26 tanks and 13 armored fighting vehicles in that, and we inflicted 200 casualties on them, deaths on the Ukrainian forces. And he said, our forces fought heroically, we didn't lose any ground, and we suffered only one-tenth the number of casualties.

But reality is, that doesn't even stack up with what some of his field commanders and Russian journalists with the Russian forces are saying on the same line. They're saying the Ukrainians put in 100 fighting vehicles. The Ukrainians have committed a lot of their additional resources to that front line.

And, indeed, one Russian commander said that they'd lost one of the villages that was close to the front line. So, the Russians on that front line appear to be on the back foot. Of course, Putin's got his own propaganda that he is pushing.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and we know Putin has lied repeatedly.

And, interestingly, one of the reasons for that rebellion that Prigozhin cited in advance and, as it was happening, was that Russian mismanagement of the war, in his view.

So, Prigozhin he took a shot at the king, in effect. He's still walking around right now and in the same city as Putin? How did this happen?

ROBERTSON: Yes, it's hard to know, because we don't really know what kind of deal actually Prigozhin worked out with Putin.

Look, you know Bill Burns, director of CIA, has said that Prigozhin is in Belarus, but he's also been able to travel backwards and forwards to Russia. Here he is in Russia. I think the currency that Prigozhin has here is that he was the Wagner mercenary boss in Africa in places like the Central African Republic, and we understand that delegate was from the Central African Republic, Mali, Mozambique, Sudan, Libya, these countries where he was providing Wagner mercenaries.

And the leaders of those countries were providing him gold, were providing diamonds, mineral access, all stuff that the Kremlin wanted. Prigozhin was the off-the-books enforcer overseas for the Kremlin, for Putin. So that's his currency here, I think.

And Prigozhin has said Wagner in Africa is still working, we're still going to support our clients there, as long as we don't cross over Russia's interests.

So it seems that he still has, in that context, at least, some breathing room, but let's see how long that lasts.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's an important point to make is that Wagner, of course, is an instrument of Russian power, not just in Ukraine, but around the world. At least, it has been historically. We will see if it maintains it.

Nic Robertson in London, thanks so much -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: One day after Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell froze during a press conference, the top Republican in the Senate says he's fine. But what are his colleagues saying about it? We will take you live to Capitol Hill.

And July isn't even over yet, but scientists say it is the hottest month in more than 100,000 years, the White House just announcing a plan to protect Americans.

And, later, the U.S. women's national team battling it out with the Netherlands for a draw. We're going to tell you what the team now has to do to advance to the next round in the World Cup straight ahead.

You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:23:14]

SANCHEZ: One of the Senate's top-ranking Republicans won't say whether Mitch McConnell should run for leadership again after the Republican leader's episode in front of reporters yesterday.

You will recall, for nearly 30 seconds, the 81-year-old senator paused, staring ahead speechless, before another senator stepped in. McConnell took a short break, later came back and said that he was fine. And, today, he's showing no signs of slowing down on his schedule, giving an expected speech this morning on the Senate floor. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Almost two years ago, the United States took an important step toward deeper cooperation with two of our closest friends, Australia and the United Kingdom.

AUKUS agreement promises to equip our Australian allies with cutting- edge U.S. attack submarines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN has also learned that McConnell has fallen multiple times this year. That's two more instances than a fall that was reported last March in which he fractured a rib and hit his head, suffering a concussion.

Let's take you now live to Capitol Hill with CNN's Manu Raju.

And, Manu, you spoke with the number two Republican in the Senate, John Thune, about McConnell's future. What did he say to you?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he was very cautious about it, as a number of Republican senators have been today as I put the question to them about whether they still support Senator McConnell, whether he should continue to run their conference.

He is the longest-serving Senate party leader in history, and whether he should try to do that again in the new Congress. And that last part, whether he should try it again in the new Congress that starts in 2025, that is still a question that Republican senators simply do not want to touch at this moment, a bit of a change from in the past, when Republicans would reflexively say almost said they would definitely get behind McConnell if he wanted to run again.

[13:25:05]

This time, a lot of them are much more cautious. Also, some senators indicating that they want to get more information about Senator McConnell. That's what Senator Kevin Cramer said just moments ago, that he hopes for more transparency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Once you become a leader, your responsibilities obviously are with other constituents, namely, at least in his case, 48 of his closest friends.

So that probably does call for a little more -- some -- I should say, more -- call for more transparency than you would for somebody else.

RAJU: So, should he tell his 48 colleagues what happened?

CRAMER: I -- I -- well, he should tell us if something else -- something bigger is going on. And whatever he tells me, I will trust to be true.

RAJU: Do you Senator McConnell should run for leader in the new Congress?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Well, I mean, the new Congress is 18 months away. I'm trying to figure out how we get the -- this authorization bill off the floor today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And Thune there seen as one of the potential successors for Senator McConnell, if and when the leadership vacancy does arrive.

McConnell has indicated -- not indicated his plans about whether he will continue to serve out his term, which expires in 2026. And they reelect a new leader at the beginning of every new Congress.

So, he -- I have asked him this question in the past. He has not wanted to discuss that at this moment, so still some questions about that, as we learned that there have been more incidences that the 81- year-old has fallen, including once in February in Helsinki while at a meeting with the Finnish president. He fell as he was walking towards that meeting. He got up. He was fine.

He also fell earlier this month at the Reagan National Airport as he was getting off the plane. He got up. He was fine. He went back to the Capitol, not as serious, nearly, as the one that happened in March, when he suffered that concussion. But the question is whether the lingering effects of that concussion were the reason why he had that moment on the floor yesterday.

I asked him that. Was there any connection to the fall, the concussion to why he paused and had that freeze? He said: "I'm fine" -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we certainly hope that that is the case, though, obviously, questions linger about his future in leadership going forward.

Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thank you so much.

Let's turn now to CNN medical analyst and emergency room Dr. Leana Wen.

Dr. Wen, thanks for being with us.

What factors could contribute to someone freezing up the way McConnell did in the middle of a sentence?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: There are a number of things that we have to consider, including, could he have had a seizure? Usually, you think of seizures as the whole body shaking, but, also, you could have seizures where somebody just stares into space and freezes for a period of time.

You also have to be really concerned about, could this be a stroke? And, actually, I thought, Boris, what was the most remarkable about yesterday's episode was the fact that Senator McConnell decided to go back to the press conference.

What I mean by that is, if it's the first time that something like this happens, and somebody just couldn't speak, or at least looks like they couldn't speak or couldn't move for 20-some seconds, usually, they'd be extremely concerned.

And that patient might end up coming to the emergency room. And in the E.R., we would treat this very seriously and have to think about ruling out stroke. That patient would immediately go to have C.T. scan, maybe MRI.

But why would somebody not go to seek immediate medical attention? One reason might be that they have had this happen in the past and have had a workup in the past and have a known diagnosis. I don't know if this is the case with Senator McConnell, but that could actually explain why he did not seek immediate medical attention, if there -- if there is some type of known diagnosis, something that's happened in the past that's triggered a fuller medical workup before.

SANCHEZ: Doctor, does it concern you less in terms of a potential medical situation because he was able to return to the lectern and continue talking and answering questions and engaging and seemingly was able to walk away and walk back of his own volition?

WEN: Yes, in some ways, definitely. If someone has a full-blown stroke, they would not recover so quickly.

Usually, they would lose control of their ability to speak. They might be weak on one side of the body or another. And they would continue to have these symptoms. So it does not appear that he had a full-blown stroke. But could he have had a temporary stroke, a ministroke, called a TIA, transient ischemic attack?

That's certainly something that one would have to consider. And, again, if this is something that's happened in the past, maybe he's gotten lightheaded and had a vasovagal episode, and this is how it manifests, or maybe he has a history of seizures or -- again, speculating here -- but just saying, if this is something that's happened before, then I could imagine that's why he would not get immediate medical attention, because this is a known diagnosis.

SANCHEZ: The senator says he is fine. We will take him at his word and hope that that is the case.

But, Dr. Leana Wen, we appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. Thanks so much.

WEN: Thank you. SANCHEZ: Jim.

SCIUTTO: Another health story we been following.

The NBA superstar LeBron James just gave an update on his son Bronny. You will remember the 18-year-old suffered cardiac arrest while practicing Monday

_