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Ukraine Shows New Progress In Counteroffensive; FAA Investigates After Two Planes Nearly Collide; Passengers Shaken After Plane Avoids Midair Collision, Flight Attendant Hurt; Study: Alcohol- Related Deaths Spike Among U.S. Women. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired July 28, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:32:28]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: In Ukraine, new signs of progress against Russian forces in the south. For the first time, Ukrainian forces are seen charging toward Russian defensive barriers known as Dragon's Teeth.

We can see the Ukrainian military vehicle slamming into an anti-tank trench there. You see it kind of disappear. An occupant then runs from the vehicle.

This video has been circulating on Russian social media as Ukraine's counteroffensive continues to gain ground.

Let's discuss with retired General Wesley Clark, a CNN military analyst and a former NATO supreme allied commander.

General, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

When you see this video, is this a sign that Ukraine's counteroffensive is making progress? And do you think they have the right equipment to get through these sorts of barriers?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think it is a sign that there is at least one Ukrainian vehicle that is forward. But moving on a one tank front in daylight in a wide-open area, that's not a recipe for success.

Now, we do know that the counteroffensive is making progress. It is slow. It is painful. It is going through an anti-tank ditch. And it is probably covered by fire.

But we have to put this in perspective. Ukraine has got to move carefully through these minefields. It has got to husband its resources. It can't just unleash a flood of vehicles, run into anti- tank ditches and Dragon's Teeth and think it is going to go through. Ukraine doesn't have air superiority in the area.

If you read what is out in the public about this, there are some areas that are less heavily defended in the southeast where Ukraine is attacking. And the idea that Ukraine would be able to go after the less defended areas, that's good.

But when they do that, you would expect the Russians to reinforce those areas once the main Ukrainian effort is identified.

And here's where Ukraine needs air power because, when those Russian forces start to maneuver in the open, they're very vulnerable.

Ukraine doesn't have attack helicopters, they don't have F-16s, doesn't have the ability to make use of air power to go against maneuvering Russian forces when they come to the assistance of a weak spot in their defense.

So, this is going to be a touch-and-go battle for a long time. I think the courage and the adaptability of the Ukrainians is fantastic. I sure wish we could get more material to them. That's the key.

[14:35:02]

SANCHEZ: Yes, that air superiority so crucial, as you mentioned.

And on the question of an air offensive from Ukraine, there have been multiple attacks in Russia in recent days, including one in Taganrog. And that's roughly 25 miles from the Ukrainian border. Some 10 people were injured.

Ukraine isn't taking credit for that attack to this point. But do you anticipate we're going to see more incidents like this one?

CLARK: I do anticipate this. Because Ukraine has got to find a way to strike back. It's for strategic and political reasons. If it gets military effectiveness out of it, that's great.

But this war is being waged at all levels. You know, from President Putin's perspective, what he's got an African charm offensive going on right now. He's avoiding being blamed, even by the South American nations, for the war in Ukraine. They wouldn't name him when they met.

He's pointing at the U.S. presidential election, no doubt. He believes, if Donald Trump gets elected, his problems are over. Donald Trump will solve this in 30 days. He'll simply stop assistance to Ukraine, tell the Ukrainians they have to surrender and give it to Russia.

So Putin's playing this at multiple levels. And don't forget, the Wagner group is in Belarus. Our Polish member of NATO, they are moving forces up to the Belarusian border because they're listening to the threats. The Lithuanians are very nervous about this.

Putin is playing this at multiple levels, not just at the defensive level. At the defensive level, at the military level, the pressure is on the Ukrainians to bust through that Russian defense.

But without more material delivered sooner to the front, and more logistics and maintenance up there, they have got a very tough fight ahead.

SANCHEZ: A message we heard over and over again from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

General Wesley Clark, we appreciate your time, sir. Thanks.

CLARK: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Back home, next. Coming up, a flight attendant is hurt after a plane had to take evasive action to avoid a collision midair. Someone who was a passenger on the flight will join us next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[14:41:39]

SCIUTTO: The FAA is now investigating a near collision midair between two planes Sunday. This over Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The pilot of Allegiant flight 485, bound for Lexington, Kentucky, was forced to take evasive action after nearly hitting a Gulfstream business jet.

A flight attendant on the Allegiant jet was hurt. A passenger, Jerrica Thacker, seen here on the flight, said it felt like the plane went straight up. She was visibly upset after she and the injured attendant, who Thacker says fell backward as the plane ascended.

CNN correspondent, Gabe Cohen, joins me now.

Gabe, first, tell me how the jets got so close together. There are so many systems, fail safe, fail safe, some automatic, humans involved and air traffic control. How did this happen?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's the big question that the FAA is investigating at this point.

Let me lay out exactly how this played out. What we know at this point. Allegiant, this flight takes off from Fort Lauderdale on Sunday, headed for Kentucky.

Right around the Orlando area, about 23,000 feet up, when suddenly the pilot is told to go east.

We have this statement from the FAA explaining what happened. They basically said that air traffic control in Miami directed the pilot to turn eastbound over the ocean at that 23,000 feet altitude, when it crossed in front of a northbound Gulfstream business jet.

At this point, these two aircraft are headed in the same path, but both pilots, fortunately, got an automated alert that basically there was another plane flying at the same altitude and immediate action needed to be taken.

Bear in mind, they were about two and a half miles apart. That may sound look a big distance, but --

(CROSSTALK) SCIUTTO: They're going really fast.

COHEN: Yes. This is airborne highway traffic speeds. We're talking about seconds, not minutes here. Both pilots took those evasive actions. The Allegiant plane went up, the jet went down, and they were able to avoid a disaster.

We know the Allegiant maneuver, that pilot's maneuver was dramatic enough that it injured at least one flight attendant onboard. They had to turn back to Fort Lauderdale so that person could get medical attention.

Remember, it is rare that an incident like this, a pilot's maneuver ends in an injury. We sometimes hear about it with turbulence.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: But this is really rare.

SCIUTTO: Has to do it quickly here.

So anecdotally, it seems like we have seen a remarkable number of these in recent months, both in the air and on the ground. Statistically, are these near misses happening more often?

COHEN: That's been the conversation throughout the year and we have heard people like Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg talk about early in the year a surge in close calls, especially incursions involving at least one plane that was sitting on a runway.

We know the FAA has faced intense scrutiny, claims that air traffic control is understaffed, using outdated systems. And they have taken precautions, taken measures to address this.

They held that safety summit earlier in the year. They added new guidelines for air traffic control. And stood up a new regular training program to try to make sure that air traffic controllers stay sharp, that they don't make mistakes, that we don't have close calls like the incident we just saw.

But remember, as much as experts and officials in this field tout the safety measures and the safety track record that is in place for the airline industry, we're talking about an FAA that has not had a confirmed administrator for more than a year now.

[14:45:05]

President Biden tried to appoint an administrator that was then -- resigned under scrutiny.

And so there are a lot of questions when you look at an incident like this as to whether some of the changes they put in place are working, how long can they keep that really, really good track record in place.

SCIUTTO: We've also heard the transportation secretary talk about how many more air traffic controllers they want and need to hire. Gabe Cohen, thanks so much.

So, what was it like on that jet as this happened?

Joining me now, Jerrica Thacker, who, as we mentioned earlier, was onboard.

Jerrica, thanks so much for joining.

I'm glad you're OK. I'm glad other folks on the flight are OK.

First, tell us what it was like as the pilot had to make this emergency move out of the way of this other jet.

JERRICA THACKER, ALLEGIANT AIRLINE PASSENGER: Well, at that time, we thought it was turbulence, which was still scary at the time because I had never been through that.

But when he came on the intercom and let us know that we were actually trying to miss the other airplane, it was like an intensified all that fear that happened.

And it was like a roller coaster the way we had to go up and down to miss the plane and then level back out to the height we were supposed to be at.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. What was the reaction onboard from yourself and others when you heard the pilot say that's what I had to do, I had to steer us out of the way?

THACKER: People started crying. You could hear people praying. Everyone at a window seat started to close their windows because everybody was too scared to look outside at what was around us.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. You say you saw the flight attendant, who was thrown during this maneuver, get hurt. What did you see?

THACKER: Well, when I -- after I looked over, after we had finally stabled out, I saw that two flight attendants were on the ground. When one got up, the other one stayed on the ground.

The one who got up said, oh my god, she hit her head. She stayed laying on the ground for about five minutes when they finally were able to get her up and move her back to the back of the plane.

And then asked if there was any medical professionals onboard, which they eventually found one and brought her back with that injured flight attendant.

SCIUTTO: And were they able to find a doctor onboard who could take care of her immediately?

THACKER: There was a woman onboard who went back with her. I'm not sure what they did back there, but she did go back to help her out.

SCIUTTO: As I understand it, this, incredibly, was only the second time you have been on a plane, your second flight.

THACKER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: What -- first of all, I'm glad you're well. How are you doing now and what are you thinking?

THACKER: I'm doing a lot better. It is still -- it is not like I got through the day with that in the back of my head.

But when you lay down to go to bed, it is in the back of your head there that the thing you almost went through, the fact that I could have died in a few seconds, and still talking about it now.

I just now got to the point where I could actually talk about what actually happened during the incident, avoiding the plane, because it was kind of blanked out in my mind and I didn't realize when I was talking to people about it that I was completely skipping the actual incident.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that's -- it is often a typical reaction to trauma. Can I ask you, first of all, get the help you need, talk to folks about it, that's important.

Do you think you'll get back on a plane some day?

THACKER: There is a very slim chance that I will step on to another plane. But I can tell you, if it ever does come to that point, I will not be going on Allegiant.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. Did they reach out to you, apologize?

THACKER: No. We did receive a $100 voucher for a future flight, but there was no real communication with Allegiant at all.

SCIUTTO: Goodness.

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THACKER: Besides when my mom -- and they lied about what happened.

SCIUTTO: They lied. How?

THACKER: Well, my mother called once we landed because we needed help to get a rental car because we didn't have that kind of money on us.

And so my mom called and was, like, is there any way you guys can help my family get a rental car to get home because they were on that airplane that almost hit another airplane.

And Allegiant told my mom, you have the wrong information, the plane was turned around because the pilot got sick. And hung up on her.

SCIUTTO: Really? Goodness gracious.

THACKER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Wow. That's certainly not fair to you.

Listen, you know, statistically, it's still the safest way to travel. We know that. But, boy, having gone what you go through, I just hope you get over it soon. And I'm glad you're safe now.

THACKER: Thank you. I appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for joining us, Jerrica Thacker.

[14:50:01]

And we'll be right back.

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SANCHEZ: Deaths involving alcohol are on the rise across the United States. And a new study shows this increase is happening at a much higher rate among women compared to men.

And that is surprising since, historically, alcohol-related deaths have been more prevalent among men.

CNN health reporter, Jacqueline Howard, joins us now. She reviewed the details of the study.

Jacqueline, what stands out to you?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Boris, what really stood out is not you the rise in alcohol-related deaths but, like you said, this rise did appear to be more sharp among women.

[14:54:59]

What I mean by that, researchers looked at data on alcohol-related deaths from 2018 to 2020 and found, among men, deaths increased on average by 12.5 percent each year but, among women, it increased 14.7 percent per year.

And the researchers wrote that the Covid-19 pandemic was not the sole explanation behind this trend.

Because when they eliminated data from the year 2020 from their analysis, they still had similar findings. They say this increase is something to look at more closely, especially for women.

But it is a good reminder for all of us, Boris, if you do decide to drink, to really limit and watch your alcohol intake. The CDC recommends for men to limit their intake of alcohol to no more than two drinks per day, for women no more than one drink a day.

So that's important to keep in mind for all of us really -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes, very important advice.

Jacqueline Howard, thank you so much for your reporting.

Jim?

SCIUTTO: Extreme, sometimes deadly heat impacting millions of people across the U.S. today and into the weekend. We're going to have a look at who, and we'll see the hottest temperatures and where. That's coming up next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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