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Soon, Arraignment for Mar-a-Lago Property Manager Accused of Trying to Delete Security Footage; Source Says, Trump PAC Has Spent $40 Million-Plus on Legal Fees This Year; Hunter Biden's Ex-Business Partner Testifies to House Committee. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 31, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening this hour, another Trump employee is set to be arraigned accused of trying to delete Mar-a-Lago security camera footage for the boss after the special counsel had subpoenaed it. CNN is the live in Miami with details for you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Former President Trump's super PAC is shelling out some $40 million since the begin of the year but not for his re-election campaign exactly. So, where did the money go?

SIDNER: The Biden administration is rolling out a new repayment plan for student loan borrowers. What you need to know before payments resume in October.

Kate Bolduan is off today. I'm Sara Sidner with John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

Right now, all eyes are on a Miami court. Very soon, Carlos De Oliveira, a low-profile Mar-a-Lago property manager, will be arraigned in the Trump classified documents probe. He is accused of trying to delete security camera video at Mar-a-Lago after the Justice Department issued a subpoenaed for footage last year.

His defense, as we know it so far, quote, the boss wanted server deleted. De Oliveira is described as someone outside of former President Trump's inner circle. Several people tell CNN that he is not someone who's known by Trump's close confidants. One of his family members is telling that he likely didn't actually realized the consequences of what Donald Trump was telling him to do, and was probably just being loyal to his boss.

CNN Correspondent Randi Kaye is in Miami. Randi, what do we know about the charges that are up against De Oliveira?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are pretty serious charges, Sara, all relating to allegations that De Oliveira was part of the plot to try and erase this security camera footage, as you mentioned, to which shows the boxes of documents at Mar-a-Lago, some of them found to be classified. The charges include conspiracy to obstruct justice, making false statements, as well as two counts of concealing or destroying an object.

What we know about his actions, according to the indictment, at least, is that he did tell an I.T. worker at Mar-a-Lago allegedly that the boss wants the server deleted. He allegedly asked that I.T. worker how long the video footage would stay on the server. So, these are part of the allegations against him.

We know also that at the center of these new allegations, which do include De Oliveira and the former president, is the I.T. worker known as employee number 4 in the indictment. His name, we've learned, is Yuscil Taveras. And sources are telling CNN that the new allegations against Trump, as well as the others, are stemming really in part from what Taveras has apparently told investigators and the FBI. We know he was interviewed, he has not been charged with anything, but that is the apparently person that De Oliveira has met in the, quote/unquote, audio closet to discuss that security camera footage, according to the indictment, Sara.

SIDNER: Do we know if this is going to be an arraignment or some other -- just an appearance in court?

KAYE: As of now, we know that he is going to be appearing in court. Whether or not the arraignment happens is still in question. He would need a Florida-barred attorney, a Florida-based attorney, who practices here, for his arraignment and to enter a plea. Right now, there is not a Florida attorney on the docket. We do know he will be here with his Washington, D.C.-based attorney, John Irving. But, again, if he doesn't have a Florida attorney, the arraignment could be delayed, which means this case could be delayed.

And, of course, all eyes are watching that. Because if his case is delayed, that could impact when Donald Trump might be tried in this case as well, the Mar-a-Lago documents case. And, of course, people want to know whether or not that's going to happen before Election Day, Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Randi Kaye looking cool in the heat of Miami, I appreciate you. John?

BERMAN: All right. With us now, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig. Counselor, as we await this arraignment for Carlos De Oliveira, we learned over the weekend is that Yuscil Taveras, employee number 4, received a target letter at the beginning of June, gets the target letter, talks to prosecutors, is not charged, at least not yet. What does that all tell us?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, it's a really important development, John. When prosecutors send target letters, there're two reasons you do that. One is just a sense of fair play. I want to give a heads-up to this person, let him know he's likely to be indicted, can get a lawyer, can maintain his right to silence.

But the other reason, the strategic reason, which we really do use as prosecutors, is you want to scare someone, you want to shake them loose, you want this person to go, oh my goodness, I'm likely to be indicted. Maybe I ought to come in and cooperate. And it looks like that's what happened, and it looks like that's what worked with Trump employee 4, who we now know as Mr. Taveras.

And the way you can tell that, if you look at the indictment, there are certain allegations made that clearly rely on his testimony, the conversation that he, employee 4, had with the new defendant, De Oliveira, where De Oliveira asks him to delete the surveillance video, that appears to come solely from the testimony of employee 4. So, that tells me in all likelihood, this person was shaken loose by the target letter and is likely cooperating with prosecutors now.

BERMAN: And the fact that he's not being charged, does that give you a sense of how strongly he was cooperating?

HONIG: So, when you have someone who's cooperating, as a prosecutor, you have to make a decision, did this person engage in conduct that requires them to plead guilty? Was it so blatant? Was it such sort of severe conduct that they have to take a plea, or is this a person more on the periphery who we can give a pass, maybe give immunity or a non- prosecution agreement and take his testimony? And if he has not pled, which as far as we know, he's not pled guilty, it looks like the latter. It looks like prosecutors have calculated he's a low level player. We don't have to make him eat a charge, as we would say.

BERMAN: And he's -- that's a good term.

HONIG: We speak vividly sometimes as prosecutors.

BERMAN: I don't want to leave that just hanging there. That's a really good one.

So, look, he is cooperating. We're not sure whether it's a small c or big C. Clearly, the prosecution here would love to be in a world where either Walt Nauta or Carlos de Oliveira were also cooperating. How likely is it, let's leave Nauta out of it, but De Oliveira, who's about to show up in court today, that he would flip?

HONIG: I'm not seeing any indicator that De Oliveira will flip, and let me give you the following. We know that De Oliveira spoke with the FBI, because he's now charged with making false statements to the FBI. So, there was a point before he was charged where he had a chance to tell the truth, and instead he just denies across the board, nope, don't know anything, know nothing about anything. So, that suggests he remains on Trump's side.

There's also the financial factor. If his attorneys are being paid by pro-Trump PACs, then it's going to exact a cost, a financial cost to him to break free and go get his own attorney.

Defense lawyers are crazy expensive, I think to a way that people may not understand. I mean, you're talking six figures if you want a serious private defense lawyer, I don't know that a guy like De Oliveira can even literally afford that. So, all -- look, people change, sometimes people get indicted and that changes things. Sometimes people flip on the eve of trial, sometimes people flip during trial. But at the moment I see no indicator.

BERMAN: And are De Oliveira's interests in Nauta's interests and Donald Trump's interests all perfectly aligned? And part of the reason I ask that is Taveras, employee number 4, he switched lawyers because the lawyer that he was using was also Walt Nauta's lawyers, so there was a conflict there. But what about the other three guys?

HONIG: So, they're not aligned in the sense that any one of them might be best served by breaking away and cooperating, and that gives that person the best chance to reduce their exposure. However, there is such thing called joint defense agreement here, where multiple defendants will join together, this is perfectly legal, and say, look, we're all in the same boat here, we're all best served if we work together, our lawyers can then share all of our work, share the attorney/client privilege. That happens a lot in multi-defendant cases. So, if they've done that, that means they're bonding together and their interests are aligned to that extent. BERMAN: Does the prosecution have any say here? Could they sever the

case if they wanted to?

HONIG: Yes. So, there's a separate question about will these guys be tried the three defendants all together or separately? And this is so interesting tactically, because, as a prosecutor, we were generally -- I was obsessed. I wanted to try everybody all together at once. I tried five defendants together, one case, four. It's just you get to give the jury the full picture all at once. It makes it seem more serious. And, generally, defendants want to be broken apart and tried separately.

I don't know that that will be the case here. I mean, first of all, if prosecutors want to have any realistic chance to get Donald Trump tried before the election, they'd be better served to break him off and try him first without the baggage of the other two.

Whether Nauta and De Oliveira want to be tried with Trump is an interesting sort of strategic decision, because they may want to get the benefit, if they think there's going to be jurors who are sympathetic to Donald Trump, they may want to piggyback on that and get the benefit of that jury as well.

And it looks like there's something happening now.

BERMAN: That's Carlos De Oliveira showing up at court right now for his initial court appearance, just arriving for the first time.

[10:10:01]

This should be procedural, of course. All the things that should have happened one way over the last six months, not quite.

HONIG: I'm going to stick by just in case it goes awry.

BERMAN: Yes, don't go far. Elie Honig lives in the studio these days. All right, Sara?

SIDNER: And Randi Kaye is out there for us, so we should get an update on what happens in court, as you just saw De Oliveira going into the courthouse.

But Trump's legal troubles are draining his war chest. And now his team is creating a legal defense fund to help pay his hefty legal bills. We're told Trump's political action committee, Save America, has already spent more than $40 million on legal fees this year alone. That's more than double what it spent last year.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us now. Do we have any idea when this legal defense fund, what it's going to cover?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is still a question we're trying to get the details on, but we are told by sources that this isn't going to cover Donald Trump's legal fees. This is more for those associates.

And when you look at that big number there, that $40 million, that is not just what Donald Trump himself has paid. That has gone to dozens and dozens of witnesses in various investigations, former, current aides, employees, staffers at Mar-a-Lago. This has been a big umbrella.

Now, the question is, when it comes to that legal defense fund, how exactly broad is this going to be? As you just heard about Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira, they both are co-defendants of Donald Trump's. Both of them are paid by lawyers who have received an enormous amount of money from the Save America PAC, which, again, spent $40 million. And just to be clear, that is only up until July. That is just the first half of the year. So, that $16 million was for all whole of 2022. The $40 million is for 2023.

And I do want to give a little bit of a reminder of where this money is coming from, because the money going into the Save America PAC usually comes from these small dollar donors. And when you look at the breakdown, when Trump announced his presidency back in -- excuse me, his candidacy back in November, the breakdown was that 1 percent of every dollar went towards the Save America PAC, which would go towards legal fees, and 99 percent of every dollar went towards the actual campaign.

Then a few months ago, quietly, that structure changed. 10 percent of every dollar then was going to the Save America PAC to pay those enormous legal fees and 90 percent going to the campaign. But they are clear, clearly concerned here about the money they are hemorrhaging in these legal bills, and that is why they are establishing this legal defense fund.

SIDNER: All right. Kristen Holmes, thank you for that reporting.

Joining us now, Sarah Matthews, she is here to discuss Trump's legal battles and how they're affecting those in his orbit. She was White House press secretary under Donald Trump. I want to go to some pictures, though, quickly. We just saw Carlos De Oliveira going into the Miami courthouse, where we are expecting him to make an appearance. We don't know yet if this is an arraignment, if he has a Florida attorney, but we are waiting to hear what happens in court when it comes to his case.

Can you give me some sense of what kind of pressure is put on a person, like De Oliveira or like Walt Nauta, when they're being represented by an attorney that is paid for by Donald Trump?

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY FOR TRUMP WHITE HOUSE: Well, we already saw this play out with the January 6th committee hearings, Cassidy Hutchinson, who was one of the key witnesses in those hearings, initially had a lawyer that was paid for by the Trump Organization. And, clearly, she said that they were trying to coerce her testimony to be more favorable towards Trump. And she ended up doing the right thing, which was dropping that attorney, hiring someone who would actually represent her best interests.

And so that's what worries me about Carlos De Oliveira and Walt Nauta, is that their lawyers might not be representing their best interests.

And so it appears right now, though, that these two are very loyal to Trump. I believe that Carlos has worked for Mar-a-Lago for over 20 years. Walt Nauta is Trump's body man. So, this is someone who is face-to-face with Trump constantly.

So, right now, it appears they might not flip, but I would hope that their loved ones are consulting them to do so.

SIDNER: Yes, I mean, it's also very expensive, and to have those fees paid for by someone else is something that I'm sure both of them are thinking through.

I do want to talk about this fact that just so many people around Donald Trump that get into legal trouble seem to have to pay a price, but rarely does Donald Trump himself have to. Why do you think people like Walt Nauta and Oliveira do remain loyal to Trump as the pressure mounts on them?

MATTHEWS: I think that, as you noted, it is really expensive to then flip on Trump. I mean, I personally had to hire a lawyer when I was testifying before the January 6 committee as well. And that is expensive and it adds up.

And so it is worrisome for lower level folks, like Carlos and Walt, who have to then take the brunt of those legal fees if they wanted to do the right thing and tell the truth and cooperate with investigators.

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But, unfortunately, some people aren't in the best financial place to make that decision. And so only time will tell what they end up ultimately doing. SIDNER: Can you give us a sense of how Donald Trump operates? In the public sphere, we see him doing these angry tweets or angry Truth Socials on social media, but in private, when these cases just keep mounting on him and the evidence keeps showing up in the public sphere, can you give us a sense of what he is like?

MATTHEWS: Yes. I think that, politically, he knows that this is going to benefit him. We've already seen the rally around effect happen with the first two indictments. We know that. And then there's potentially a third and a fourth coming.

They don't really seem to hurt him in the polls. He's able to fundraise off of them. And so I think he's in good spirits in that sense, knowing that right now it looks like he is going to be the Republican nominee, but he has to be worried from a legal standpoint.

I think that's evident in his Truth Social posts, where he's lashing out and attacking Jack Smith, the special counsel, and it's just slightly deranged. And so my belief has always been that he jumped into the race because he knew he was facing these mounting legal troubles and he wanted to use it as a shield.

And so I think he knew it was calculated, him jumping into the 2024 race, because he knew he was going to have to face these legal problems. And on top of that, he was going to have to pay for these legal fees. And I don't think he wanted to use his own money. And I think that's why you're seeing now the PAC paying for up to $40 million just in the first half of this year alone.

SIDNER: Yes. He's certainly not using his own money. The legal defense fund is creating that as well, hoping to get more money so he doesn't have to come out of his own coffer.

Sarah Matthews, thank you so much for giving us an insight into what Donald Trump is dealing with and what he's like during these highly stressful times. I appreciate it. John?

BERMAN: All right. The search is on in North Carolina after police say the driver of an SUV hit a group of migrant workers outside a Walmart in what they are calling an intentional assault.

Mother Nature's fury on full display, a typhoon just sweeps the car away. Look at that.

And at this hour, Hunter Biden's former business partner is testifying behind closed doors as Republicans zero in on the president's son and the president himself.

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BERMAN: Just moments ago, a former business partner of Hunter Biden arrived on Capitol Hill. He will be meeting behind closed doors with lawmakers testifying before the House Oversight and Accountability Committee. Devon Archer's testimony comes amid this push from some Republicans to launch an impeachment inquiry into President Biden.

CNN's Zach Cohen is live on Capitol Hill for us now. Zach, tell us exactly who is Devon Archer. Where does he fit here?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, John. We just saw Devon Archer walk into this building behind me for a scheduled interview with the House Oversight Committee, as you mentioned. And Devon Archer is a former business associate of Hunter Biden. The two of them, according to documents that the committee has received, were engaged in several foreign business deals.

But, look, House Republicans have really hyped this interview up and hyped Devon Archer up as a key witness. They believe that he could provide evidence linking President Joe Biden to these foreign business deals, but they've yet to produce any evidence to support that claim.

But listen to what one member of the House Oversight Committee, Republican Nancy Mace, said about her expectations for this interview with Archer.

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REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): This was a person who was in business with Hunter Biden and Biden family members. He was the BFF of the president's son. He has a lot of information, I believe, that we'll be able to fact-check and corroborate with other witnesses and other whistleblowers.

Is he going to tell us that Joe Biden was in the room via conference call or in person and to what extent he was involved in this mess? And the American people have the right to know whether he was or was not.

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COHEN: So, Democrats push back on that claim and say, look, there's nothing to suggest that Joe Biden is connected to any of the business dealings, the foreign business dealings that Hunter Biden was engaged in. And both Democrats and Republicans are now going to have a chance to question Archer personally. We saw members of both parties walk into the building for this interview as well.

BERMAN: So, Zach, the timing of this hearing, where does this fit for Devon Archer and also for Republicans and what they're actually pushing here and not to mention in the whole Hunter Biden proceeding?

COHEN: Yes. Devon Archer has his own legal issues aside from the interest and the relevance to this congressional investigation. He actually was convicted of a felony and is facing a one-year prison sentence as a result, unrelated fraud case. But last night and over the weekend, the Department of Justice essentially asked a judge to order Archer to appear and to surrender for his prison sentence. But in that court filing, they made clear they didn't want that to happen until after this interview today.

Republicans, however, seem to gloss over that point and have been speculating that this was some sort of an effort to block him from testifying. That does not appear to be the case and the court documents very clearly state otherwise. But it just gives you a sense of the political nature and the political turmoil surrounding this interview with Devon Archer today and around Hunter Biden, the president's son.

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BERMAN: All right. It is just beginning, that interview. He just arrived moments ago, Devon Archer. Zach, we're going to count on you to bring us any updates as they come in. Thank you. Sara?

SIDNER: On our radar, this morning, police in North Carolina, they're asking the public to help locate this SUV. It struck six people in a Walmart parking lot. None of the injuries are life-threatening, according to police, but police won't say exactly why they believe the assault was intentional. They described the driver as an older white male seen in mid-sized black SUV with a luggage rack on top.

Delta Airlines now facing a federal lawsuit after an intoxicated passenger is alleged to have groped a mother and daughter during a flight from New York to Greece. The lawsuit claims flight attendants kept serving the man alcohol even though it was clear he was drunk and his behavior was disturbing. The plaintiffs say, flight personnel dismissed their concerns. And when the plane landed, the man was allowed to leave with police intervention.

The lawsuit seeks unspecified damages. Delta did not comment specifically on the allegations but did say it has a zero tolerance for customers who engage in inappropriate behavior.

A 99-year-old trucking company that was one a dominant player is shutting down, Yellow Corp announcing that it halted operations on Sunday. The company's 30,000 workers are now out of the job. The company has been in a battle with the Teamsters Union, but just a week ago, the union canceled a threatened strike. This comes after company received a $700,000 loan from the federal government in 2020.

And pop icon Madonna tells fans she is lucky to be alive after battling a serious bacterial infection, which landed her in the hospital. She took to Instagram on Sunday to thank her six children and longtime manager for supporting her throughout this.

Earlier this month, announced her world tour would be postponed until later this year so she could recover. The 64-year-old musician ended her Instagram post by saying, let me stay to finish doing my work. John?

BERMAN: The Biden administration is going to make good on a campaign promise to help alleviate student debt. What you need to know about who qualifies for this.

And her life turned upside-down after her husband suspected of killing at least three women on Long Island. Now, the wife of Rex Heuermann is breaking her silence for the first time since his arrest.

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