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Haiti Kidnapping; Drone Strike in Moscow; Gilgo Beach Murder Suspect Set to Appear in Court; January 6 Grand Jury Meeting. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired August 01, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:23]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The grand jury is in.

As speculation mounts that an indictment decision is imminent in the special counsel's 2020 election investigation, we're learning that Trump's team has been preparing for it. We are live at the courthouse following every detail.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: An alleged serial killer in court. Just one hour from now, the man accused of the Gilgo Beach murders makes his second court appearance. He is charged now in three killings, the suspect in a fourth. Now his wife is telling CNN about the police search for evidence.

And Moscow under attack, a second drone strike there in as many days. More on Ukraine's apparent strategy, as it unleashes on Russian soil.

We are following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: This is a live look outside of the federal courthouse here in Washington, D.C., where the grand jury is convening right now in the special counsel's investigation of efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Donald Trump and his legal team now face the very real possibility that an indictment is about to drop, the former president himself predicting on his TRUTH Social account that charges could come any day now.

And we're just learning new details on how Trump and his advisers are preparing, including how they plan to publicly respond. And as that indictment looms, we are learning about new key developments in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case.

In a court filing Monday, the special counsel's team said they have obtained new surveillance footage connected to the new charges against Trump and his two co-defendants, aide Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira, who is Mar-a-Lago's property manager. De Oliveira made his first court appearance yesterday and was released on a $100,000 bond.

Let's begin, though, live with our coverage with the very latest on this grand jury meeting happening right now in Washington. We have seen CNN's Katelyn Polantz outside the federal courthouse.

What are you seeing there, Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brianna, the grand jury is in. The prosecutors are very likely here in this building working with them from the special counsel's office.

They broke for lunch, they had lunch, and they're back at work in that secret proceeding. Now, this grand jury, we are watching so closely because they have had quite a bit of momentum over the past couple of weeks. Donald Trump received that target letter saying that he was very likely to be indicted by the special counsel investigation around the 2020 election.

And, since then, his lawyers had a meeting with special counsel Jack Smith. And then the grand jury has been back last Thursday and then again today. We don't know exactly what they're doing inside that room.

But at some point in time, the Justice Department is very likely to president to the grand jurors the proposed indictment, the proposed charges they have after collecting all of that evidence through the grand jury proceeding and asking the grand jurors to potentially approve charges against Donald Trump and perhaps even others he was working with after the 2020 election, when he wanted to block the transfer of power to Joe Biden and maintain the presidency for himself, both in battleground states and in Congress, as Congress was meeting for the Electoral College.

So, a lot to watch here, but we just won't be seeing much at all until they're ready. And when they're ready, we are watching a magistrate judge,that courtroom. We are also watching other judges in the building to see if a case would emerge publicly and then we would have charges to look at.

And, Brianna, we don't know exactly what those charges would be, but they do appear they could be quite substantial around conspiracy, obstruction, deprivation of rights, major accusations to make against Donald Trump from when he was in the presidency.

And we also are waiting to see exactly what details would be in a potential indictment and, of course, when it will be public -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, and we are waiting for that.

The special counsel is now saying that it has some new surveillance footage from the Mar-a-Lago -- from Mar-a-Lago that's linked to the new obstruction charges filed last week against Trump and two co- defendants in the documents case. What more can you tell us about it?

POLANTZ: Right, Brianna.

So this is a substantial case about Donald Trump after he leaves the presidency in Florida, at Mar-a-Lago, accused of retaining national defense secrets and trying to keep them from the federal government, hide them, essentially. All of that, now the Justice Department is able to turn over evidence that they have collected. They have turned over surveillance tapes before.

[13:05:08]

They had lots of surveillance tapes from Mar-a-Lago in building that case and just disclosed yesterday that they got even more surveillance tapes around this alleged obstruction scheme after they indicted Donald Trump in June.

And the purpose of what the Justice Department is finding there is, they're trying to piece together what people who were working for Donald Trump were doing as they were trying to get rid of, essentially, surveillance tapes that would have captured the movement of boxes inside the Mar-a-Lago resort.

And so we get this new tidbit from the Justice Department, and it is a teaser, essentially, of what we would be seeing at a trial. Surveillance tapes seem to be the very thing that might be played for a jury when Donald Trump and his co-defendants go to trial and we see things like what the Justice Department is accusing them of, carrying around flashlights, looking at surveillance cameras, moving boxes on those tapes, and also crawling through Bushes -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Wow. That is something.

Katelyn Polantz live for us here in Washington, thank you -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Another investigation of Trump, state investigation, this in Georgia. New signs that Fulton County district attorney Fani Willis soon could file charges in the election interference probe there.

An independent journalist in Atlanta now says that he received a subpoena to appear before the grand jury there. He discovered a meeting of fake Trump electors at the Georgia state capitol in December of 2020. And this just in to CNN: A former Georgia Democratic state senator has received subpoenas to testify before the grand jury there later this month.

CNN's Sara Murray joins us now.

So, Sara, first, tell us about the importance of this journalist's testimony specifically and what he witnessed on that day in December 2020.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure.

Well, I mean, George Chidi is an independent journalist in Atlanta. We interviewed him for a documentary we did about the Georgia case, and he sort of stumbled upon the Republican fake electors meeting at the Georgia state capitol. He essentially got kicked out of the room where they were meeting. He was told they were meeting about an education matter, which, of course, was not the case.

And he's somebody who already testified before the special grand jury, again, the one that was collecting evidence, but that couldn't issue indictments in Georgia, about what he saw. So he's an important witness for Fani Willis in regards to her inquiry in the fake electoral probe.

When you look at Jen Jordan, who is this former Democratic state senator, she's someone who, again, was a state senator in December 2020 when Rudy Giuliani and this whole band of Trump allies showed up and made a presentation before state lawmakers that was riddled with conspiracy theories.

We know that's another element of this that Fani Willis has been looking at in her investigation. Again, Jen Jordan shared what she knew with the special grand jury that was collecting evidence, and she's now gotten a new subpoena to appear before a regular grand jury in August.

And, Jim, these subpoenas are important both to Chidi and Jen Jordan, because this is the strongest signal yet that Willis is actually going to be seeking indictments. You don't line people up, you don't pull together a grand jury presentation unless you are going to go before a grand jury and ask them to issue an indictment.

Again, she hasn't made any announcements about who, if anyone, could face charges. We expect that to come at some point this month. But this is a very strong signal about where she's headed.

SCIUTTO: Sara Murray, thanks so much.

Joining me now is former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams.

Elliot, I think, for folks at home, it's often hard to keep track of the number of investigations, but also to place them into context. So let's speak about Georgia first, so witnesses before the grand jury there testifying, we are told, to a meeting to present fake electors.

Georgia voted one way. That then leads to electors representing the actual winner in that state, Joe Biden, but there was an effort to seat fake electors. Have we ever seen this before? What would be the significance of these charges, if the grand jury finds sufficient evidence to indict?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, to answer your first question, Jim, no, we have not seen any of this before.

So, again, the point of a grand jury, it's an investigative tool that hears evidence, working with prosecutors to ultimately bring charges against an individual. Now, the specifics of the fake electors scheme, this meeting with this journalist who has been called before the grand jury, it's potentially very devastating evidence, because, number one, apparently someone in the room lies to this journalist and says, we're having an education meeting, when, in fact, it was a meeting of fake electors.

That there, that lying right there is itself evidence of the criminal -- of knowledge of criminality. They know they are doing something wrong and had to lie about it and had to keep that meeting secret. So, it is quite significant that this individual who witnessed what was going on in there could have testimony.

Now, it's a little complicated. He's a journalist. And any time -- as you know, well, Jim, any time a journalist is asked to come before the criminal justice system, is he going to be asked to give up sources or his notes? And that gets a little tricky, but it is potentially quite important evidence.

[13:10:03]

SCIUTTO: OK.

So, what we are looking at today is the possibility of a decision from the special counsel about federal charges against the former president and his allies, both in relation to January 6, but also an effort to overturn the results, and not just in Georgia, but in a number of states in the 2020. Election.

Again, folks at home, they have heard of a lot of indictments in recent weeks and months. What would be the significance if the federal -- if the special counsel here and the grand jury found sufficient evidence to charge the former president either or perhaps both over his role in January 6 or an effort to overturn the election?

WILLIAMS: Quite significant.

Again, rewind once again. What we were just talking about a second ago was Georgia, the state of Georgia investigating violations of the law of this state of Georgia. What we're talking about now, in the context of January 6, are federal crimes and potentially crimes such as conspiracy to defraud the United States, potentially conspiracy to interfere with voters and their ability to cast votes.

This is under the laws of the United States. What's -- this is all significant, Jim, because these are all investigations of a former president or any high government official. It's particularly significant because you would now have a second federal indictment. That's the United States Department of Justice having established to grand juries that I talked about a moment ago that there's at least probable cause to believe that crimes are committed and that they think they can convict him on.

SCIUTTO: Right.

WILLIAMS: So, that is enormous significance.

SCIUTTO: We know, with CNN's reporting, that the Trump team is already preparing its responses to this.

They have even said it'll be quite similar to the responses to other indictments, and the commonality of those has been that this is a biased investigation, et cetera, et cetera. We do know, however, that Republican lawmakers, including Georgia legislators and in other states, have been called to testify here.

Presumably, the evidence -- well, we know that the evidence -- we know that the witnesses that have come before this grand jury have spanned the parties. Would the special counsel make a special effort here to make sure that the evidence was not confined to one party or the other?

WILLIAMS: You know, perhaps.

I think, more than anything else, in order to get a case past a grand jury, you have to establish use the term I used a moment ago, probable cause that a crime has been committed. And at least the grand jury is convinced their crime was committed if they have approved charges.

So the idea that it's all tainted by politics is sort of undermined by the fact that a grand jury -- and then a judge is going to hear the case thereafter and sort of wash away some of the stink of politics. And, again, more to the point, Jim, in order to convict somebody of a crime, you then have to get it past a regular jury, what's called the petit jury, of just ordinary citizens.

And so there are many checks along the way. I recognize that politicians are going to make arguments that the whole process is tainted, but there are many, many checks built in to ensure the politics does not infect the charging decisions.

SCIUTTO: And we have seen the public comments of some of those who've been called before this grand jury as well.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Elliot Williams, thanks so much, as always. Much to watch -- Brianna.

KEILAR: There certainly is.

So, here, in less than an hour, we will be watching this. The suspect in the Gilgo Beach serial killings is going to be in court on Long Island. This is Rex Heuermann's first appearance since pleading not guilty to the murders of three women. Police believe Heuermann committed the killings inside of his family's home when his wife and two children were out of town.

And after an intensive search of the property, his wife's attorney shared these photos of the aftermath, and he's telling CNN that his client had no idea that all of this was going on in her home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB MACEDONIO, ATTORNEY FOR ASA ELLERUP: Everything in the house was turned upside down. The dresser drawers were emptied out. The bathroom tub, which was a vinyl tub, was actually cut open. The floors were ripped up.

The couches and the mattresses had been removed and just piles and piles of debris that were left in the residence, where you barely had walking space to get into the house. It's been extremely overwhelming for her and the children trying to piece life back together what it was two-and-a-half weeks ago.

I don't know if they're ever going to return to normalcy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Brynn Gingras is joining us live now from outside of the courthouse, where this is expected to happen here shortly.

Brynn, what are you expecting today?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Brianna, this is a judge's conference.

Essentially, we're expecting to hear the attorneys discuss matters with this next step in what will likely be a very long legal process for Rex Heuermann. He is expected to appear in court today when this conference hearing gets started at about 2:00. But we're not expecting some major headlines.

One of the things we're keeping an eye out for and certainly one that we hope to ask of the district attorney, who is expected to make some comments after this hearing, is whether those new charges are going to be lobbied -- if he's going to face those new charges for that fourth woman whose body was discovered amongst the other victims, the Gilgo Four, as they were notoriously known as.

[13:15:12]

Remember that Rex Heuermann is the prime suspect in that case, Brianna.

KEILAR: Walk us through these photos released by the family attorney.

GINGRAS: Yes, I just actually want to note that Rex Heuermann's attorney did just arrive to court. So, again, this hearing is going to get started around 2:00. We are still expecting that.

As far as those photos, you can see the amount -- the intensity really of the police investigation that took place inside the Heuermann home. Remember, sources are telling CNN that they do believe it's possible some of those murders happened inside that home.

So it's really not too surprising that they just scoured through every inch of that place, looking for any possible evidence that could be tied not only to the murders that Heuermann is charged with, but ones that are still being investigated, not only here on Long Island, but also in other states as we know it.

So it is -- was a situation of disarray. The wife of Rex Heuermann, soon-to-be-ex-wife, telling "The New York Post" this is her home and this is all she has, and, of course, upset. And it's unsettling to come back to a home where everything is sort of dug up as police concluded that investigation, which you know, we know lasted almost two weeks there just at the home alone.

KEILAR: And this fourth woman -- it's the Gilgo Four. He's been charged in three, as you mentioned.

Is there any update on the case of this fourth woman where Rex Heuermann is the prime suspect for her murder?

GINGRAS: Yes.

And this is the question we just keep on asking the district attorney. Like I said, we are expecting him to make some comments after this hearing. And it will be asked again. It was our understanding from sources that they are still waiting to get some DNA processed, which does take time, in order to possibly then make those charges.

And so it is just a matter of time, according to our sources, of when this additional murder charge is going to be filed. But, certainly, we will work to get an update on that for you, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, we will be looking for that.

Brynn Gingras, thank you for the latest -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Ukrainian drones strike Moscow once again. The Kremlin says it will take steps to prevent future attacks. Kyiv says it is making gains in the counteroffensive.

Plus, Haitians take to the streets to demand the release of an American nurse and her daughter who were kidnapped, all this as a witness describes the moment they were abducted.

Hear her account when CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:45]

SCIUTTO: Ukraine's president said straight up that war would increasingly strike Russian territory. And some new damage in the capital, Moscow, seems to be proof that is happening.

The Kremlin says Ukraine attempted another drone strike on the very same building damaged Sunday by a drone. The 50-story high-rises in a financial district, houses some Russian government offices as well.

CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton joins us now.

Good to have you, sir.

When you look at strikes like this -- there's some of the damage there in Moscow -- is there a military function to striking inside Ukrainian territory, or is this largely about morale and message-sending?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's definitely about morale and message-sending, Jim.

But given the fact that there are some government entities in this complex, there could be potentially a military target here. So it is potentially a valid target, especially if the Ukrainian intelligence services have picked up certain traffic from these areas.

SCIUTTO: Right.

LEIGHTON: It's very possible that they could have a legitimate cause to do this.

SCIUTTO: And, presumably, there'd be benefit to it not being a civilian target, given how many times Russians have struck civilian targets in Ukraine, to great international outcry.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely.

And the key thing is, Ukraine has to maintain as much of the moral high ground as they possibly can. If they don't, they lose -- they risk losing a lot of support.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

LEIGHTON: And this kind of event would become a dangerous event for them to conduct.

SCIUTTO: This is a video of the drone program, which Ukrainians have proven very adept at using both for surveillance and striking Russian targets.

Well, one thing, when you look at the overall progress on the battlefield -- this goes all the way back to the start of the invasion -- folks at home who perhaps don't check this out every day will notice that the map has not changed significantly in recent months, despite enormous losses, particularly on this part of the battlefield in the east here around Bakhmut, where we have seen a lot of the most intense fighting.

And we have seen Ukrainian forces pick up some ground. That's a closeup look, this pulling back a little bit, but not a huge amount of ground. And I wonder, does this raise concerns for you about the slow progress of the Ukrainian counteroffensive?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely.

I'm a veteran of the Iraq War. And it's one of those areas where you look at as much rapid progress as you can possibly achieve in the shortest amount of time. So this kind of warfare is something that's personally anathema to me. I believe that, if you move forces quickly, if you can envelop the enemy forces in areas like this, you're making better progress.

However, the Ukrainians did not have the luxury to do that. They don't have the weapons systems. They don't have the personnel. They don't have the strategy or the training to do that. Or at least they didn't have that earlier.

But they were able to do some things in previous phases of the war that allowed them to take a lot of territory.

SCIUTTO: Right.

LEIGHTON: The problem is, is, they let the Russians stay in place. SCIUTTO: And dig in.

LEIGHTON: And dig in right through this area.

SCIUTTO: Yes, there's multiple lines of defense, heavily mined, literally trench warfare in here, other tank traps, et cetera.

You just said they don't have the weapons, or at least enough weapons, and they don't have enough trained forces, highly trained forces, to break through, particularly when you look at what we know was one of their big goals here. And that was to break through the so-called land bridge between Eastern Ukraine and Crimea here.

[13:25:05]

If they don't have those weapons today, does that indicate to you that they're never going to break through?

LEIGHTON: I think they will break through at some point, or at least they have the chance to break through.

They have made some progress around Robotyne, and they're moving to Tokmak right now What their goal is, is, there's a highway that goes along the coast right in through here, and, actually, it intersects up through the Melitopol. One branch goes up towards Zaporizhzhia, and another continues on toward Crimea.

This is the goal right here. They want you to cut this highway. And if they can do that, they have some artillery pieces that they can use. And, of course, they're looking for the ATACMS system.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

LEIGHTON: They don't have that yet.

SCIUTTO: They don't have that yet.

LEIGHTON: But they're also -- they do have Storm Shadow, which allows them to do certain things.

The other thing that they are looking for, of course, are the F-16s.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

LEIGHTON: And if they get the F-16s, they can do a lot of things in this particular area. They need that kind of power, airpower, specifically, in order to change the dynamics of this battlefield.

SCIUTTO: Right. And Russians have maintained not necessarily air superiority, but certainly air capabilities there.

Just going to go back to the timeline lapses, as I ask this final question here, again, going all the way back to last year. And we don't want to minimize progress, because, by the way, this whole area was Russian-held, and the Ukrainians took that back last fall.

LEIGHTON: That's right.

SCIUTTO: But as that battlefield looks more and more similar, is there more political pressure on Ukraine to say, hey, you have gotten as far as you can, maybe now's the time to discuss land for peace?

LEIGHTON: I think you're going to see that kind of pressure. We have got that meeting in Saudi Arabia that the Saudis are sponsoring with Ukraine's support.

And it seems as if there's a movement in that space right now. So what could happen is, these areas right here, some of them may stay under Russian control. And that would not be acceptable to a lot of Ukrainians, given the sacrifices they have made. Like you said, they have captured basically about 50 percent of the territory that the Russians had earlier in 2022.

But the remaining 50 percent, that's going to be the difficulty, and that's going to really challenge them politically and militarily.

SCIUTTO: Yes, no question.

Cedric Leighton, thanks so much. And, of course, President Zelenskyy has said as much. He said, we're not going to stop until we have all of our territory back. We will see, is he able to keep that promise? We will be watching closely -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Haitians coming out in droves marching for the American nurse and her daughter who were kidnapped in Haiti on Thursday. One sign carried by a girl reading "The free school is no more. Free the nurse."

That nurse, Alix Dorsainvil, is seen here with her husband, Sandro. And the nonprofit that he founded said that the kidnappers took Dorsainvil while she was tending to patients on the campus of the school. An eyewitness said that he saw one of the abductors pulled out a gun.

He told the Associated Press -- quote -- "When I saw the gun, I was so scared. I said, I don't want to see this. Let me go."

CNN's Jason Carroll is in the area where Alix Dorsainvil grew up. That is Middleton, New Hampshire.

Jason, what more are you learning about this kidnapping? And I'm sure that this is an area where people are just devastated by what they're seeing about this woman from their hometown being kidnapped.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As you can imagine, there are a lot of prayers here for Dorsainvil and her daughter.

We will see if some of those protests that you mentioned there going on in Haiti put any sort of pressure on what is happening behind the scenes. I can tell you that El Roi Haiti -- that is the faith-based humanitarian organization that Dorsainvil and her husband worked for -- they have been putting out -- they put out a statement, which says that they have been working diligently, not only with Haitian officials, but with U.S. officials as well.

But they caution, Brianna, that they're really not able to say much about whatever efforts are going on behind the scenes, because their feeling is that that could jeopardize whatever efforts are being made. And that's the same sentiment we heard in D.C., not only from the State Department, but from national security officials as well.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: We want to see her released. We want to see your back home with her family, where she belongs. But, again, I think it's probably the most prudent thing for us to do to not publicly talk about those efforts in any great detail, as the situation is still precarious.

So we're all very, very mindful of her case and certainly mindful that she has a young child with her and doing everything we can.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CARROLL: Some more details coming from El Roi Haiti about Dorsainvil. She's been on staff there since 2020 working as a school and community nurse.

She first visited Haiti back in 2010 right after that devastating earthquake there. The State Department, once again, in constant contact with their Haitian counterparts.

[13:30:00]