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Republicans Respond to Trump's Third Indictment; Trump Accused of Organizing Scheme to Rig Election; Election Interference Probe; Two Prominent Michigan Republicans Charged with Conspiracy to Seize Voting Machines Following 2020 Election; Russia's War on Ukraine; Ukraine Intercepts 23 Drones Over Kyiv and Odessa. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 02, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald was just indicted. That trial will now join the three other trials that he's already facing, and added into all of that is the presidential election cycle. Meaning next year could be a straight-up wild start to 2024 for Donald Trump, his team and everyone.

On January 11th, looking at the calendar, Donald Trump is a defendant once again against E. Jean Carroll who sued him for defamation for statements that he made, denying he sexually assaulted her back in the '90s. That very same day is when the Republican Iowa caucuses occur. Then if you move that forward into March, Super Tuesday is set for March 5th. More than a dozen states are going to hold primaries on this day. And two weeks later Donald Trump is back in court for his second trial of the year, this for the 34 criminal counts that he faces over falsifying business records for cover up hush money payments to Stormy Daniels.

Now, a vast majority of the Republican primaries when you move into May, a vast majority of them finish by mid-May with six more playing out around Trump's classified documents trial. That kicks off on May 20th with jury selection set to begin for that case, all kind wrapped up in that moment. Donald Trump faces 40 criminal charges in connection to that one to -- for -- because of charges connection -- connected to illegally keeping classified documents after leaving office.

Now, you have this next indictment, just handed down yesterday. Trump's team calls this indictment, election interference. Most of his Republican opponents in the presidential primary are agreeing with the former president, though some, including his Former VP Mike Pence, are standing up to call him out now.

CNN's Jessica Dean picks up the story there for us. So, Jessica, how are his opponents, the other Republican presidential candidates reacting to all of this?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, let's start first with the person you just mentioned, and that's his Former Vice President Mike Pence, who of course, plays such a pivotal role in this particular case because he stands at the center of some much of what was going on and has this unique perspective.

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So, he put out a statement. He says, anyone who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the United States. Our country is more important than one man. Our constitution is more important than any one man's career. And on January 6th, Former President Trump demanded that I choose between him and the constitution. I chose the constitution, and I always will.

Again, really sharpening his lines there against the former president. He has evolved on this issue since he got into the race. And this is a very direct way at saying he's different than Donald Trump here. That he chose the constitution. That Trump made him choose between those two things, and that he's not fit to be president of the United States.

So, again, that is noteworthy from his former vice president, who we should mention has yet -- not yet qualified to be on the debate stage yet on August 23rd. Then you heard from other candidates, like Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who really kept with what he's been saying, which is that this is a weaponization of the federal government. And that he believes that he would end weaponization if he was put into office.

Again, that's a lot of what we're hearing especially from House Republicans over on Capitol Hill. And worth noting also, Kate, that Tim Scott said that this is a weaponization of the federal government as well. And really, he's talked about Hunter Biden, and the DOJ is protecting Hunter Biden, and that it is hunting Republicans. So, interesting to hear him say that.

And then just to zoom out for a second, Kate, and remember that we are in unprecedented territory here. That new polling showed that 19 percent of people from "New York Times" Siena Poll don't believe that Trump's behavior threatened democracy. 17 percent -- only 17 percent -- I'm sorry, only 19 percent believed that he did that. Only 17 percent believed that he committed any federal crimes.

And so, this is a question for first, the Republican Party, and then the greater American population of, did Trump do anything wrong here? And is he fit to be president? And that is where it inserts itself into this primary and we're going to continue to hear from these candidates as it is a central issue in this Republican primary. Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Jessica. Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: All right. With us now CNN Political Director David Chalian. David, to the point that Jessica was making there, look, usually re-election campaigns, incumbent campaigns are about the incumbent, about Joe Biden. But now, how is not everything that's going to happen, the primary and then if Trump wins the general election, how is this not now about Trump, and to an extent this actual case? DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it's interesting, John, because the Biden team would like it to be about rejecting MAGA extremism, as they say. So therefore, putting Trump at the center here, if not just the specifics of this case, a broader argument against extremism. But to your point, you have to remember here Republicans largely, as Jessica just walked you through those numbers in "The New York Times" Sienna Poll, they don't see criminal behavior here. They don't see something that threatened American democracy here, at least the vast majority of them.

In fact, still if you look at polling, you know, majority of Americans believed that Joe Biden didn't legitimately win the 2020 election. They are bought into the very lies that Jack Smith is detailing in the indictment that Donald Trump has been selling.

And so, this creates now a real test for the entire political system here. Yes, Republicans are going to have to deal with it in their own house first, in some way, and we'll see how that comes through. But there is no doubt, you are right that this will be, especially with the court calendar, playing out simultaneously, this will be a central issue of the 2024 campaign.

BOLDUAN: And then the question does become, what are these candidates going to do about it? What do you make of, kind of, the first reaction from the Republican rivals after this indictment? Mike Pence's reaction yesterday slightly different than when he was on with Dana -- what was it? Just a couple of weeks ago, in -- about -- what obviously then talking about a potential indictment.

CHALIAN: Yes, 10 days ago, Kate. I -- my ears perked up -- or my eyes popped out, I guess, when I read Mike Pence's statement when it was initially issued because he has played different notes at different times throughout this entire episode. And the statement he issued last night was as strong as he's been, maybe, other than his actual formal announcement speech back in June where he went at this issue of his concern about a candidate putting the constitution behind themselves. Putting themselves up front ahead of the country and the constitution. Clearly talking about Donald Trump and not shying away from saying it was Donald Trump.

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That was more the tenor and tone of the statement last night. But just 10 days ago when asked about this indictment coming down the pike and the target letter that Trump had received, you're right to note. He, sort of, said, you know, I don't know. I can't judge if this is criminal intent or not. And this will be, really, ultimately up to voters to decide.

So, last night he came out with a far different statement and I just was a bit surprised by that because that's not where he was just ten days ago. I'm less surprised, I think, by the DeSantis and Tim Scott and others who were, sort of, on Kevin McCarthy's song sheet here about trying to do two-tiered justice system and talking about Hunter Biden. BERMAN: Look, I will say, for the other candidates, it's hard to run against someone you are defending. It's hard to run against someone when you, in some cases, are forced to parrot the central thrust of his campaign. And that's what a lot of those Republican opponents find themselves that position in right now. David Chalian with your ears twitching and eyes popping and my nose itching and it's great to see you this morning, my friend.

CHALIAN: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, David.

Coming up for us, two prominent Trump allies are now charged in Michigan. Accused of a voting machine plot to help the former president overturn his 2020 election loss there. Much more on that ahead.

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BOLDUAN: This morning, two prominent Michigan Republicans now face criminal charges for their alleged role in a plot to seize the state's voting machines after the 2020 election. Matthew DePerno, a failed Trump-backed candidate for Michigan's attorney general, and also, Former Republican State Representative Daire Rendon. They were both arraigned Tuesday.

CNN's Zach Cohen joins us now with much more on this. Zach, tell us more what you are learning, as well as what you are hearing from these now defendants?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, this is the other indictment news from yesterday. And it comes in the form of state charges in Michigan against these two Republicans, as you mentioned. One of them is Matthew DePerno who, actually, was endorsed by Donald Trump to unseat the current attorney general in Michigan, Dana Nessel, and he obviously lost.

But because he decided to run and tried to challenge Dana Nessel in the last election, she had to appoint a special prosecutor to oversee this case. Now, in the -- even though this was an independent special prosecutor and a grand jury that handed down this indictment, you know, DePerno is categorically denying any wrongdoing in this case. He says, the charges are unfounded and motivated by politics.

But the indictment itself does stem from a long-running investigation, and DePerno is part of a loosely affiliated group of Trump supporters who have been trying to get access to voting machines across the country. DePerno also is behind one of the infamous lawsuits after the 2020 election where he was trying to get access to voting machines in another Michigan county. So, he's a known election denier in that state. And this is an indictment that was handed down by an independent special prosecutor despite the claims to the contrary by DePerno. Now, we also know that there are similar voting machine breaches that are under investigation in two other states at least, Colorado and Georgia. Both of those have had -- took place after January 6, 2021, as did the ones in Michigan. But it looks like they fit into the broader election investigation conversation because in Michigan, specifically, Dana Nessel, the attorney general there, has also indicted 16 of the fake electors, the fake Trump electors, who signed that certificate and put -- and sent it to the National Archives, asserting that Trump won the 2020 election. We also know there's a criminal investigation into efforts to overturn the election in Georgia. And of course, the indictment of Donald Trump yesterday announced by Jack Smith.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Putting it all together for us as always, Zach, great reporting. Thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right. New Russian attacks on Ukraine overnight on a location that raises questions about just how far the Russians intend to push things.

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BERMAN: All right. New firing in Ukraine overnight as Russian drones attack. Officials say, the drones were deliberately targeting infrastructure and some did get through. The attack damaged a port facility and industrial infrastructure, including a grain elevator. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the drone strikes an attack on global food security. He is urging the International Community to intervene.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in Zaporizhzhia in more central Ukraine has the latest for us on this. What exactly are the Russians targeting, Nick, and where?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's grain storage devices, parts of the port's key for the global food chain. And obviously, as you know, John, the grain deal that allowed much of that food from Ukraine out into the world, keeping food prices more stable, that has pulled out by Russia, and instead they are now hitting key parts of infrastructure.

The reason why this is so acutely sensitive is it is the first time that Russia has struck this close to NATO, to Romania, a NATO member whose president said this was, "Unacceptable". Klaus Iohannis referring to it as a war crime. And so, we are seeing here possibly Russia becoming more bold about where it chooses to hit. You should know, John, too that the internal narrative inside of Russia, put out by the Kremlin is that Russia is already at war with all of NATO rather than NATO as is the truth simply arming and assisting Ukraine. But it comes, too, as well where Poland has launched a firm protest against what was reported to be two Belarusian helicopters, military ones, crossing over their border and getting into Polish airspace.

So, on two separate occasions here, we have it seems, Russia or its allies, kind of, taunting NATO members. It's highly unlikely this will escalate into a broader NATO conflict with Russia. Russia can't even control its Ukraine foe here as part of its invasion.

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But still, a troubling development, it's fair to say, a second time we've seen this and it is likely to have a knock-on effect to food prices if, indeed, this failure of the grain deal sustains for months. John.

BERMAN: Yes, people are getting into map. The important thing is here is the attack to grain facility, right on the Danube which is the dividing line between Ukraine and Romania. So, they were attacking Ukrainian land just across the river from a NATO nation. That is important and provocative. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much for that.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Great context, John. Coming up for us, Former President Donald Trump facing another day in court tomorrow. We have new details on what to expect. We'll be right back.

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