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Pence Responds to Latest Trump Charges for January 6; Some 2024 GOP Contenders Criticize Trump on New Charges; Oregon Woman Escapes Makeshift Dungeon; Gunman in 2018 Synagogue Shooting Sentenced to Death. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 02, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: A short time ago former Vice President Mike Pence became perhaps the most significant 2024 rival to discuss Trump's historic indictment on conspiracy charges to overturn the 2020 election. Pence referred to Trump intensely -- as intensely pressuring him to reject certifying the 2020 results which Pence refused to do because he said, simply it was against the Constitution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On that day, President Trump asked me to put him over the Constitution. But I chose the Constitution. And I always will. And I really did believe that anyone who puts themself over the Constitution should never be president of the United States. And anyone who asks someone else to put themselves over the Constitution should never be president of the United States again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Echoing what he said as he declared his candidacy for being president and this was Pence responding to Trump's past indictments, as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)'

PENCE: I think the unprecedented indictment of a former president of the United States on a campaign finance issue is an outrage, and it appears for millions of Americans to be nothing more than a political prosecution.

PENCE: This indictment contains serious charges, and I cannot defend what is alleged.

I can't believe that politics didn't play some role here. If I had the privilege to be president of the United States, we're going to clean house at the Department of Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So that was Pence then. We hear what Pence is saying now. Let's discuss it is. Yes, let's discuss all of this now with CNN's Jeff Zeleny, Jessica Dean and Eva McKend with us, as well. Pretty interesting. He's sort of creeping along as more information and evidence comes out. I wonder what you thought of what you heard today. Because even though he said he wish it hadn't come to this, an indictment, he seems to also say that Trump broke the law.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He did and, look, this is something he clearly does not relish talking about. This is not going to win him the Republican nomination which he is running for. But I think this is also an important time to point out, these are different indictments.

[15:35:00]

And his responses there were to different indictments. So this is without a doubt the most serious of the three indictments. It is talking about the peaceful transfer of power or in this case the lack thereof. And so certainly, he is much more sharper in his thoughts. And he really has sort of a crescendo of getting louder, talking about this. Because he was at the center of this. So I think it's important to point out when we talk about the indictments, you know, there might be some indictment fatigue out there. These are different indictments and this is the most serious, the Trump campaign knows this. That's why he's reacting as he is.

SCIUTTO: And two be clear in this indictment, Pence is not just an outside observer. He is central to the special counsel's case. A number of references to him including the indictment reading at one point, quote, as reflected in the vice president's contemporaneous notes here. He is -- and by the way, this is something different from the January 6th committee's investigation because Pence did not take part in that. He did take part in this. So he's very much in it.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's very much in it in such a unique situation. If we just kind of can zoom out for a second, you know, I think to Jeff's point there is indictment fatigue and we keep saying unprecedented. But think about this. We are in the middle of a GOP presidential primary with a former president running against his vice president.

This indictment has come down and we're asking the Republican voters to weigh in and say, is this, OK? Are you OK with this? And Pence is there in the middle, as Jeff just pointed out, being even -- so much more sharper than we have heard from him. And because he is in the middle of all of this. And we have heard that line about the Constitution. That seems to be in terms of his messaging where he's going with this. I don't put myself in front of the Constitution. No person who does should be allowed to be president.

But again, I keep going back to the numbers within the Republican Party. Those polling numbers that showed from the New York Times/Siena that just 17 percent of people believe that Trump committed any crime. So it's not exactly where the -- a lot of GOP voters.

KEILAR: Yes, that's where they are. It's a fascinating snapshot and it tells you everything you really need to know. Eva, you are out there on the trail and I think that poll tells you

why you're seeing what you're seeing. Trump has what should be and certainly in a general election is a huge vulnerability and yet for Republican candidates who are looking for something to get him on, on the primary stage, it's a third rail for them. They can't really touch it.

EVA MCKEND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely. And even in the former vice president's comments, you see him hedging a bit. Well, he's innocent until proven guilty. Let this play out in the courts. And that is because even the voters that I speak to that have an appetite for considering a different candidate because they don't think that Trump can win in a general election, they aren't sort of explicitly hostile towards Trump. And so, they are trying to, you know, mirror what they're hearing from voters. You go to a Tim Scott town hall, for instance, and you hear folks still asking about the 2020 election. Is there going to be fraud this this election one woman in New Hampshire asked for instance.

KEILAR: Because they believe there was fraud in the past one. Is there going to be more, is what they're asking, right?

MCKEND: Exactly. And so, that is what these candidates have to speak to. One strategy seems to be, is try to avoid Trump to the extent that they can. So we saw the former vice president today leading with talking about inflation, Senator Scott on Friday will be in Arizona on the border talking about immigration. To the extent that they can, they are trying to pivot and talk about other issues.

SCIUTTO: Listen, it shows that disinformation works, right? That Trump's lies about the election have influenced a significant, in fact, the larger portion of Republican voters. They still buy it. And now you have a separate tract where you have the leading Republican candidate for president saying that the entire judicial system is -- well, I should say criminal justice system is aligned against him. If disinformation worked against the electoral process perhaps it works as well against the justice system and has enormous consequences. Will continue to follow them. Jeff, Jessica, Eva, thanks so much to all of you.

KEILAR: And coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, FBI agents in Oregon say they are searching for more victims after a woman escaped a makeshift dungeon in a kidnapper's garage. We have details just ahead.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: We are now just about 24 hours away from Donald Trump's expected court appearance here in Washington. The former president is scheduled to be arraigned on his latest federal indictment. He faces four criminal charges accusing him of being central in efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. In fact, leading that effort,

CNN's Jake Tapper is here with me now. And Jay, you're going to speak to the former speaker, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi next hour who was there that day.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, THE LEAD: Yes, speaker emerita. Is that how you say it? Emerita.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAPPER: So she was there that day. She has issued a public paper statement saying something along the lines that Donald Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence and a fair trial, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm interested in her non-paper feelings about this. Given the fact she was there and her life was threatened. We all remember the video of the crowd yelling, Nancy, Nancy and some people testifying that they intended to do her harm. So I want to hear what she thinks about the charges.

[15:45:03]

SCIUTTO: Listen, one thing about in that always amazed me, her life was in danger, Democrats' lives were in danger but so were Republican lawmakers. They said as much, right, afterwards. And yet you see the speaker who followed Nancy Pelosi, Kevin McCarthy, has very much metamorphosized, if you might call that, his positions on January 6 and the former president.

TAPPER: Right. I mean, and we saw right after the insurrection Speaker McCarthy saying along the lines, condemnation of Donald Trump. And there was also that audiotape of him saying I'm through with this guy. I'm over him.

But he obviously has changed his tune and we'll ask Pelosi about that as well and get her response. She also wants to talk about Taiwan. It was a year ago she went to Taiwan. I don't have to tell you, Jim, that the crisis between and the tensions between the United States and China are even worse now than they were then.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and then of course, China responded to that visit with major exercise around the island. It is going to be a fantastic interview.

TAPPER: Yes, I'm looking forward, thanks.

SCIUTTO: "THE LEAD" is just a few minutes away from now. We should all be watching -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Now to some other headlines that we're watching this hour.

A Russian drone strike early this morning hit port facilities in Odesa, Ukraine. It damaged a grain warehouse and ignited a large fire. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calling this an attack on global food security and urging the international community to intervene.

And Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he and his wife Sophie Gregoire are separating. Trudeau married the former TV host in 2005. They have three children. And the FBI in Portland, Oregon, is looking for more potential victims

after a woman escaped from a makeshift cell made of cinder blocks in a man's home. Investigators say the 29-year-old man posed as an undercover police officer and then handcuffed the woman's arms and legs and forced her into his car. Police say he sexually assaulted her as he drove her nearly 500 miles to his home then locked her in the garage dungeon. The woman did manage to escape and the suspect later arrested in Reno -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, we will have reaction from Pittsburgh where the Tree of Life Synagogue gunman has just been sentenced to death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A federal jury just sentenced Robert Bowers to the death penalty. He is the gunman responsible for killing 11 people at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh nearly five years ago. Federal investigators making one thing very clear today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER GIORDANO, FBI ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Hate has no place in our community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Danny Freeman is in Pittsburgh and just heard from some of the victims' family members. Danny, how are they reacting to this decision?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, I really actually want to paint a picture of just exactly how powerful and important this moment is that we're hearing from so many of those directly impacted from this shooting. We're at the JCC, the Jewish Community Center, not far from the Tree of Life Synagogue where that horrific shooting happened nearly five years ago.

And for the first time, really as a united front, we're seeing nearly three dozen of survivors of the shooting, family members of those who were killed, police officers as well, they're standing as one behind me speaking to the press about this verdict.

And Brianna, the families of those impacted most directly, they haven't had a chance to speak to the media. They haven't had a chance to speak publicly beside what many of them have said on the stand. And this has been -- you could tell, cathartic to say what they have been saying in there, which is partly relief that this entire nightmare is finally coming to an end. And we keep hearing themes of justice as well.

Take a listen to one family member of a victim and a survivor of that day from moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEIGH STEIN, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: I feel like a weight has been lifted and I can breathe a sigh of relief.

AUDREY GLICKMAN, SURVIVOR: The purpose of death penalty is not so much punishing, as cutting off the person from society. Eliminating the evil. Taking away the risk. The potential for infection and the possibility of further harm to the citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: And the other thing, Brianna, they all just emphasize this -- again, we're hearing directly from the families themselves specifically about this death penalty sentence. And one person noted that the reason it was important to many families here to have that particular sentence come down is not necessarily because it specifically is death, but one survivor, Carol Black, said that this crime deserved the most intense punishment available under U.S. law. That is the death penalty. That is the federal death penalty in this case. And that's what we're hearing inside.

So once we're done, we will go back and continue to listen to some of these incredible testimonies now after the death sentence has been handed down for the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Danny, we'll let you go down that. And you could bring that back. We do appreciate it. Danny Freeman life for us in Pittsburgh with this big news. And we'll be right back. Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A sheriff's department in Florida has just shared what should be a cautionary tale for teen drivers and their parents after a teen driver was clocked at -- a newly licensed lead foot, driving his dad's car down an Orlando highway at 132 miles an hour. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORPORAL RICHTER, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: how old are you? You're 16. Whose car is this? Tell your father I'm here now.

Dad, this is Corporal Richter for the Orange County sheriff's office and I need you to come out here and pick up your son. I'm on the express lane, I-4 express lane. I just clocked your son at 132 miles an hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Wow!

KEILAR: Wow! The We're not impressed. Right?

[16:00:00]

We're going full mom and dad on that. That sheriff's corporal went on to tell the teenager, if you were an adult, maybe not surprising here, he would have gone straight to jail for reckless driving. Instead he was given a speeding citation requiring a court appearance which is probably why he brought dad into the mix.

SCIUTTO: I've got to say, that was a great move by the cop there. That's why they call the parent. Not to call you want to get. But boy, that kid I hope learned a lesson.

KEILAR: An important one.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.