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Trump's Legal & Political Calendars Colliding; NY Officials Identify Another Victim In Gilgo Beach Slayings; Pentagon Issues Guidance On Reshuffling Leadership Roles As GOP's Tuberville Blocks Military Confirmation. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 04, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Multiple sources say Donald Trump is sour and dejected after his third arraignment. But his 2024 presidential run marches on. And that means his court and campaign dates could collide with his calendar. We're live from Alabama where the former president is expected at a Republican Party dinner tonight.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, charged with espionage. Two Navy sailors accused of sending China U.S. military secrets. I'll speak to a member of the House Intelligence Committee about the potential impact this could have.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And police have now identified another victim found on New York's Gilgo Beach. The Jane Doe finally has a real name after almost 30 years. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Right now, Donald Trump is the clear front-runner in the Republican presidential primary. When the first GOP debate takes place later this month, we don't know if he's going to be on the stage. But we do know five days later, there is another hearing related to his indictment for trying to overturn the 2020 election results.

Just one of many legal challenges that the former president is facing as he attempts to return to the White House. Trump also has a looming federal criminal trial for allegedly mishandling classified documents. And he will stand trial in New York for allegedly falsifying business records in connection to hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels in the final days of the 2016 campaign.

Then, on the civil side of things, he is appealing a five-million- dollar verdict that found him liable for sexually abusing and defaming writer E. Jean Carroll. In a separate defamation lawsuit, Carroll is seeking another 10 million. And then there is still a potential indictment coming out of Fulton County, Georgia in a state investigation into efforts to overturn his 2020 loss there.

We have CNN's Katelyn Polantz tracking all of this for us. Katelyn, this stacked court docket is on a collision course with his political calendar. And that spells a lot of drama. KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Brianna. I don't think we're fully grasping just how busy this is going to get in the next couple of months. But let's just look at this month, right?

So, today it's what, the fourth? Next week, there is going to be a re- arraignment for Donald Trump. He doesn't have to be there in person. That's taking place on Thursday.

And then there are deadlines, there are filings, there are all kinds of things that happened to -- that are going to happen in court throughout the month of August. And then you get the first GOP debate on the 23rd. And then a hearing, a really crucial hearing in this January six case on the 28th, where he's going to be before Judge Tanya Chutkan for the first time, and she is going to lay out what she wants to do for a trial date.

So, that's the case. Then we get into January. There's a lot of deadlines on the calendar that's really busy between August and January. But then January is when we're into true election season, Iowa caucuses, and the trial for the E. Jean Carroll second defamation suit in New York are set to be on the exact same day.

KEILAR: Wow.

POLANTZ: Now, he may not need to be there in person. But it is a substantial thing to have this sort of trial happening. One that is very similar to one where he has already been found liable.

KEILAR: And that's the storyline going on is the caucuses are starting.

POLANTZ: Exactly. And then we get into March, a couple of months later. These are 10 primary dates in March.

And then you also have this New York hush money case going to trial for the trial date on the 25th. Then you're into May a little bit later. And this is the federal case in Florida that we do have on the calendar.

Now, it could start either this day or this day. But that is also right in the middle of the heart of primary season. And so it's just such a busy calendar, and we still don't even have a January six trial date yet to put on this board.

KEILAR: Wow. It is really stunning. And as you said, so many other dates that we're going to be seeing and we'll bring those up on the calendar here in the coming weeks and months. Katelyn, thank you so much for taking us through that. Will all of these trial dates hold, do you think?

POLANTZ: Oh, that is a possibility that they could hold. But a lot of it is going to be up to the judges. You just watch what the judges want to do.

There might be even some public negotiation over different prosecutors saying you know what, you guys can go first if we're on the calendar first or we want to make this go first. Specifically, because this January six case, it's straightforward. It's just against him. It's four counts. There's not classified documents issues.

[14:05:02]

And so, we're going to have to wait and see exactly what Judge Chutkan wants to do whenever we get at the end of August into that big hearing on the 28th. Because she could very well start to make some sort of insinuation that it's time to get this on the calendar and get it on the calendar soon so that it goes to trial. Some judges are very strict about what they want to do. They'll set a trial date and never move it. But it's court. Things do change. And so this is going to be very fluid.

And the other thing, criminal defendants often are very much expected to be before a jury in person. That factors into how much will he be actually able to travel during campaign season.

KEILAR: All right, so really key decisions are being made at the end of August that we'll be looking for along with you. Katelyn, thank you for that. Boris?

SANCHEZ: In court one day, back on the campaign trail the next. Former President Donald Trump is the keynote speaker at the Summer meeting for Alabama's Republican Party just a day after his third indictment and -- rather his third arraignment in his latest indictment. He is expected to be welcomed by a sellout crowd.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now from Montgomery, Alabama, where Trump has a busy evening ahead. Kristen, what should we be watching for tonight?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, a busy evening and a busy weekend. He also has a campaign stop in South Carolina tomorrow. And it really goes to what Katelyn was just talking about how there is this intersection between the legal and the political.

Now what we're watching for tonight is any actual reaction to yesterday's arraignment. Obviously, I was with him yesterday. He was in a not great mood after that arraignment. He was irked that they called him Mr. Trump instead of President.

They were mad about the security he and his team. They didn't feel like they had enough agents on the ground. And after days like this, after his third arraignment, he's angry.

He is frustrated. He does not want to be doing this. But he didn't really voice that yesterday.

Today, he's going to be in front of a sold-out crowd, as you said. These are big Trump supporters in a very red state. And it might make him open up a little bit more.

But I do want to talk a little bit about what Katelyn was just talking about with this intersection between the legal and the political because it really goes to what Trump and his team have been arguing. And maybe it's not the legal argument, but it is the argument in the court of public opinion, which is that this is all political and that this is going to harm his campaign, and its election interference. Now, so far, just because he is campaigning, he is so far away from the first caucus still, there hasn't been as much of an argument.

But when you start getting into the calendar of alternating days between being in trial and being on the campaign, that is where they think that they have solid footing when it comes to putting this out there saying that this is election interference. And remember, I'm not just talking about them arguing this in a court of law. I'm also talking about them arguing this in front of the voters. And they believe that they can get the voters on board with this idea, which obviously is yet to be seen.

SANCHEZ: Kristen Holmes, live for us from Montgomery, Alabama, thanks so much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Let's dig a little bit on some key questions here with National Security Attorney Brad Moss. He is a partner in the law office of Mark Zaid. Along with Ron Brownstein, CNN SENIOR Political Analyst, senior editor at The Atlantic. Good to have you both, Gentlemen.

But I do want to begin with you to get your reaction to something that Trump's newest, we should note, defense attorney said regarding the case. Have a listen. I want to get your reaction as to the significance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURO, TRUMP DEFENSE LAWYER: Ultimately, what President Trump said is let's go with option D. Let's just halt. Let's just pause the voting and allow the state legislatures to take one last look and make a determination as to the -- as to whether or not the elections were handled fairly. That's constitutional law. That's not an issue of criminal activity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I saw you shaking your head there as you were listening. Is it constitutional law? And was it a slip-up with a sense that he's saying Trump made the decision to attempt to push back the certification?

BRADLEY MOSS, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: Yes. It's most definitely not constitutional law. And the craziest thing watching these interviews with the Trump lawyers yesterday, both at the courthouse in DC and then later on in primetime on Fox and NewsMax is to keep confessing to elements of the crime with respect to their client.

Alina Habba was sitting there saying, of course, Trump was called that the election was stolen. And then John, you know the other lawyer goes on and says, well, of course, he told Mike Pence just pause the counting.

No, I'm sorry. You don't get to do that. The 12th Amendment required what it required.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MOSS: They were trying to concoct some crazy theory through John Eastman that John Eastman told them would never be upheld by the courts. But they pushed on it anyways. So every time they go on TV and every time Donald Trump goes and talks before an audience like he's about to do as you guys were mentioning in the lead-up, they confessed to more elements of the crime. And the prosecutors are going to sit there and hitting record and going, thank you. That's prosecutorial exhibit 25,000.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And we've seen that. We've seen Republicans have come up in the -- in the case.

[14:10:02]

Ron, there's been a lot made of well, Republicans aren't moved by this. And by the way, at least, Republican primary voters seem not to be, and that Trump is still very much in the lead. That said, looking more broadly, a new poll shows a significant majority of Americans, nearly two-thirds, that's not just 51 percent, believe these new charges are serious.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Does that worry the Trump campaign do you think?

BROWNSTEIN: They believe they can you know -- one step at a time, right, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, by and large, Republican -- the vast majority of Republican voters by their interpretation of everything that's happened since the election in 2020, that the -- that the -- that the -- you know election was stolen for Biden, the January six was legitimate protests, and these are political prosecutions.

But there are yellow, if not red warning lights on the dashboard for Trump and in all of these polls. You know, voters are reluctant at this moment to elect Joe Biden to a second term. And there's a lot of concern about his age, a lot of concern about the economy, and that's keeping Trump quite close to Biden in the overall head-to-heads that we see at this point.

But as you know, a 53 percent majority of independents in this new poll describe these charges as very serious. And that New York Times- Siena --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: -- Siena poll earlier this week, majorities of independents said he went so far after 2020. That he threatened American democracy.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: 75 percent of independents in a Marist poll say he should not be president again if he's convicted of a crime. Inside the Republican coalition, he's used this very effectively. But there are clear warning signs to the GOP about how the broader electorate may react, particularly if any of these trials -- cases go to trial before November 24 and result to the guilty verdict.

SCIUTTO: Brad, you have the public statements and you have public polling. Then you have the more important legal cases here, right? In other words, now, prosecutors have to prove a crime and they have to do so to a jury.

How significant is it to see rebukes from folks who served at the highest levels under Trump, his Vice President Mike Pence, his Attorney General Bill Barr, who happens to be a lawyer as well, rebuking his actions following the election? If they take the stand, and echo those comments, how impactful in the courtroom?

MOSS: It will be immensely powerful in the courtroom. Because by and large, all the witnesses, all the testimony all the documentation that will be presented by the government isn't coming from some deep state, anti-Trump, or who bureaucrat, it's coming from Trump's own people.

It's coming, as you noted, from his attorney general, from various senior-level staffers in the White House, and in the agency's, various political appointees. These were Trump's people, and they're going to be prime example number one, two, three, to 2500 of the witnesses and testimony to convict him in the documents case --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MOSS: And in the January six case. It's like we saw in the January six hearings. It's going to be His people testifying. That's going to be very powerful.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And from the highest levels. But before we go, Ron, you wrote quite a pointed piece for The Atlantic about the significance of most Republican voters, even if they're a minority of all voters, but most Republican voters who still believe the election was stolen from Trump, as you note, that the January six riot was a legitimate protest, that Trump's efforts to subvert the 2020 results did not violate the law.

You end by saying. The dominant faction in one of our two major parties has repeatedly demonstrated its willingness to accept anti- democratic means to advance its interests. Do you think that threat has gotten through to the public?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, it's an incredibly -- (INAUDIBLE)

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, it's an incredibly -- I think it's an almost unprecedented situation. Maybe the South in the decades before the Civil War had an equally tenuous commitment to democracy. And we certainly, as you noted, we've seen the officials right around Trump as well as most Republican state officials in the key states pushing back his -- against his efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

But in between, the vast majority of elected -- Republican elected officials had been onboard. Most Republican attorney generals joined a suit to try to throw out the election. Most Republicans in the House voted to overturn the results.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: The few -- the ones who have spoken out on these indictments have basically echoed his claims that it's all political. What you are not seeing is a systemic pushing back in the party against these you know brazen attempts to shatter norms, if not laws of that peaceful democratic transition. And it makes you wonder if he is the Republican nominee and doesn't win, will there be any more resistance in the GOP to him executing anything short of a full-scale riot at the Capitol than there was last time?

SCIUTTO: Quite a prospect to ponder. Ron Brownstein. Brad Moss. Thanks so much to both of you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

[14:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Brianna, lots of questions to answer going forward.

KEILAR: Many questions. And officials -- this is what we're following ahead here, though. Officials identifying another victim in the Gilgo Beach murder investigation 27 years after she went missing. The big developments in that story coming up.

Also ahead. Could Vladimir Putin be dragging out his war in Ukraine until the 2024 election here in the U.S. is decided? The latest CNN reporting on that.

And espionage charges. Two Navy sailors are accused of sharing sensitive military information with China. You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL, and we'll be right back.

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SANCHEZ: Another victim has now been identified in the Gilgo Beach killings investigation. New York officials now say that Karen Vergata is the woman previously known as Fire Island Jane Doe. She disappeared some 27 years ago. Her feet and legs were found along Fire Island back in 1996. And then 15 years later, in 2011, her skull was discovered in Nassau County.

[14:20:01]

Authorities were able to determine through DNA testing that the legs and skull belong to the same person. Suffolk County District Attorney Ray Tierney revealed this timeline in the -- in the identification process. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY TIERNEY, SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: In August of 2022, approximately six months after we formed this Gilgo Task Force, a DNA profile suitable for genealogical comparison was developed from the remains of Karen Vergata. In September of 2022, the FBI was able to -- was able, via a genetic genealogy review, to identify Ms. Vergata presumptively as Fire Island Jane Doe. Thereafter, in October of 2022, using a buccal swab from a relative of Karen Vergata, we were able to definitively identify her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Joining us now is CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Charles Ramsey. He was the head of police departments in both Washington, DC, and Philadelphia. Chief Ramsey, thanks so much for being with us. The DA says that they knew Vergata's identity way back to last September. So, why wait until now to reveal it to the public?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Notification on (INAUDIBLE). I mean, that's something that is essential. I mean, obviously, they made this identification but they wanted to make sure that they were able to reach as many relatives as possible before they released this information to the public.

But it's just amazing. The advances in science and technology to be able to put together these cases, the way they're doing it now. I mean, my career goes back over 50 years. Obviously, we couldn't do that. But now, it's very possible based on the kind of science and technology that we have.

SANCHEZ: And it could potentially bring someone to justice. But to that point, the DA did not announce any new charges. Not -- he did not link it to the alleged killer of the Gilgo Four, Rex Heuermann. Why not?

RAMSEY: Well, they've got a lot of work to do. And first of all, it's quite different. This particular individual whose identity was just revealed, that body was dismembered.

They found the feet and the legs of Fire Island back in '96. 15 years later, they find a skull. I don't believe they've ever located the torso of the body actually charged. Those bodies were bound but they were also wrapped in burlap. They were not dismembered.

So, there are some differences in this case. It doesn't mean the same person isn't responsible, it just means that there's a lot more work that has to be done in order to connect that to those four and the other bodies that were found there in the Gilgo Beach that still have not been linked to any individual.

SANCHEZ: Well, that's one detail in this case that is really startling. The fact that other bodies have been discovered. Nearly a dozen set of human remains found along the Long Ocean Parkway on the south shore of Long Island. Do you think there might be another mass killer out there? RAMSEY: It's possible to have someone else out there. I mean, you have to keep everything open as a possibility. But it is unusual for more than one individual to use that particular area as a location where they would dispose of bodies.

It's not unheard of. I mean, you've heard stories for decades about bodies being found in the desert in Nevada and that sort of thing. But this is unusual.

So right now, they're relying very heavily on science. And technology will be available three years from now, five years from now, that might be able to further assist them in trying to resolve this particular case in its entirety and bring some sense of closure to all the families of those murder victims.

SANCHEZ: And, Chief Ramsey, as always, thanks for the expertise.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Jim?

SCIUTTO: The alibi of the Idaho student murder suspect is now revealed. We're going to tell you what Bryan Kohberger says he was doing the night of those killings.

Also ahead. Western officials believe that Vladimir Putin is putting the 2024 U.S. presidential election very much into consideration for how he plans to continue the war in Ukraine. We'll explain why. Coming up.

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[14:29:12]

SCIUTTO: This just in to CNN. For the first time, the Pentagon is issuing new guidance to its military workforce about how leadership roles now must be re-shuffled due to Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville's continuing hold on military confirmations and promotions. CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon. Oren, so how are they going to cope with all this?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Jim, the Pentagon has no choice but to find some way to make this work, and can't interfere or get involved in the Senate process in any way. So effectively, has to just find some way to cope with the fact that it can't promote or move its two three, and four-star officers. And, Jim as you know, that's problematic because the military is very hierarchical, and it relies on that ability to keep promoting and moving senior officers as the organization moves forward.

In terms of how serious this is, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin issued a memo earlier this week in which he wrote that it was having an "unprecedented across-the-board hold is having a cascading effect, increasingly hindering the normal operations of this Department and undermining both our military readiness and our national security."