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Hours Away: Trump Team Deadline On Evidence Rules; Street Around Courthouse Now Closed As Charging Decision Nears; Ukraine: Woman Detained In Plot To Assassinate Zelenskyy; First U.S. Abrams Tank Approved For Shipment to Ukraine; Biden Heads To Southwest To Sell "Bidenomics." Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 07, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Up against the clock, Donald Trump's legal team has just two hours left to respond to a DOJ request to keep some evidence quiet. This comes as officials in Georgia are preparing for another potential indictment of the former president. The street around the federal courthouse in Fulton County closed, barricades is now up.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A foiled assassination attempt on Ukraine's president ahead. What we have learned about the plot and the Russian woman allegedly at the center of it all.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: Defense attorneys for former president, Trump, have less, now, than two hours left to respond to proposed evidence rules in the election interference case, standard rules really. The Special Counsel wants to place restrictions on how much Trump, if at all, can discuss sensitive evidence revealed in discovery.

Trump's defense attorneys say the limits would violate his First Amendment rights. We are also following new developments in Trump's other federal indictment tied to mishandling of classified documents. The judge in that case is questioning the legality of using a D.C. grand jury for certain aspects of the trial, which of course is now based in Florida.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz monitoring both cases.

Katelyn, first let's talk about this looming deadline here because this is standard, right? I mean, discovery, the parties have to share evidence with each other, prosecutors to defense. Prosecutors' concern is that Trump is going to blab about it publicly. His defense says, well, that's his First Amendment right.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Where does this end up? POLANTZ: Well, where we are right now is we're really in a moment that

is an early test for this judge, Judge Tanya Chutkan. How does she deal with this early dispute is not the sort of thing that typically is a dispute. It usually is agreed to pretty quickly.

SCIUTTO: Right.

POLANTZ: In fact, they got an order like this in place over Trump's case in Florida even and also over Steve Bannon when he went to trial.

SCIUTTO: Interesting.

POLANTZ: But right now there's this split. And so we're watching not just for that filing from Donald Trump's defense team by today at five, but we're watching how the judge responds. How does she handle both mitigating any complaints about timing, right? Does - is this a delay tactic? Is this really holding up getting to trial?

The Justice Department says it does. It prevents them from starting to turn the evidence over. Also, how does she respond to what the Justice Department said in flagging for her that Donald Trump wants to come after people. He's saying that on social media and thus may want to distribute sensitive material in this case. What does she do about that and then where does she end up on the law here.

And so a lot going forward, it is an early step in this process, typically one that's not that difficult to get through, but it is really showing us how this is going forward, especially on timing.

SCIUTTO: Sure. An early question of what I'm sure will be a number of questions and disputes in this and other trials now facing - now faced by the former president.

Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: In Georgia, police are intensifying security measures around this Atlanta courthouse, as you can see here. Starting today, the main street in front of the Fulton County courthouse is closed and parking on several streets around that area, it's no longer allowed. This is coming as the district attorney is signaling indictments in the 2020 Election interference probe could come at any time. And as the court is telling anyone with these court dates through August 18th to expect to make their appearances via Zoom.

CNN's Nick Valencia is live for us outside of the courthouse.

Nick, tell us what you're seeing there.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There has definitely been an increase in security precautions being taken place here outside of the Fulton County courthouse. We'll get to those details in just a moment. But we just got some new information about the presentation of the district attorney to the grand jury of this evidence in the Trump case.

According to sources familiar with the matter, the presentation by the DA to the grand jury will take at least two days.

[15:05:05]

We don't know exactly when she will make that presentation, District Attorney Fani Willis here, but we do know that there are several indicators that this sprawling and widespread investigation is soon coming to a close.

Let me get out of the way here and show you exactly what we're talking about when it comes to security preparations. You see those orange barricades, those started going up last week. In addition to those, this morning, the prior street, that street that goes right in front of the courthouse, they put up those metal barricades, closing traffic down, everything but foot traffic is allowed to go through there and you see there's only media parking.

And they're taking the situation here, the security situation here very seriously if only because of the countless threats that Fani Willis has gotten here over the course of the last year since she's been leading this investigation. She's spoken about it publicly. She said that she's had to change her security detail because of some of these credible threats and now we're seeing these security precautions taking place in front of the courthouse.

We know there are at least two or we know, I should say, there are two grand juries here currently seated. One of them is going to be given this Trump case. Remember those charging recommendations were handed over by the special purpose grand jury, which worked for many months. They had subpoena power. They heard from more than 75 witnesses in a case that could include conspiracy charges, could include racketeering charges, now there's recommendations from the special purpose grand jury.

Fani Willis will take those to one of two seated grand juries. Those grand juries, each of them have 24 grand jurors with an additional two alternates. It'll take 16 for quorum and 12 of them will need to be in agreement in order for indictments to be handed down. And those indictments, we're being told, could come at any day. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. Nick Valencia, thank you so much for that.

Now, let's bring in former deputy assistant - pardon me, former deputy assistant attorney general, Thom Dupree.

So Thom, you have Trump, of course, the only one facing charges in the federal probe into 2020 interference, which is also what we're talking about in Georgia. Do you expect to see multiple defendants in the potential Georgia case?

THOMAS DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I do. I mean, look, we thought we would see multiple defendants in the federal case. We didn't, although they may come later. But Georgia I think is slightly differently positioned. This is an investigation that has been going on for a long time. The DA has cast an exceedingly wide net based on reports we've gotten from grand juries, from witnesses who've testified there. It does look as though the DA is eyeing a far broader, bigger group of

defendants in her case than Jack Smith brought in the DC case. Although, as I noted, I strongly suspect that Jack Smith is going to expand the list of defendants in the federal case before too long.

KEILAR: Yes. Right now they are unindicted co-conspirators, that could change of course.

So let's turn to Jack Smith's other case, the election interference, or let's turn to the election interference case when it comes to the federal case here. Today, Trump claimed that this protective order that we're talking about in that case would actually violate his free speech.

To be clear, we're not talking about a gag order here, but on Sunday, Trump's lawyer presented another free speech defense about the indictment itself. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURO, TRUMP DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You're saying that asking is action. No, asking is aspirational. Asking is not action. It's core (ph) free speech. What President Trump did not do is direct Vice President Pence to do anything. He asked him in an aspirational way. Asking is covered by the First Amendment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Is John Lauro's contention there sound?

DUPREE: No, it's not. Look, I mean, I don't think Vice President Pence viewed what former president, Trump, was saying to him as aspirational or a request. So I'm not sure how far that argument gets. To the extent that former president, Trump, has first amendment rights in play here. I think the first test of these is going to come in the context of this protective order where I expect that Judge Chutkan is going to issue a protective order that will limit what former president, Trump, can say or tweet or comment publicly about this case, including whether he can make reference to specific documents, specific pieces of evidence, specific pieces of grand jury testimony.

I think that's the first test, as it were, for Judge Chutkan and how tightly she's going to run this case. I think the second test will come in the not-too-distant future when former president Trump in all likelihood violates the protective order in some way, shape or form by tweeting out something that he shouldn't.

KEILAR: Yes. Well, then what happens then?

DUPREE: Well, at that point, the judge has a whole bunch of things in play. One thing she can do that judges often do is they'll kind of literally bring the defendant into court and kind of read him the Riot Act, say that, look, it looks like you violated my order. Don't do it again.

They can also impose consequences. I mean, the consequences and sanctions could involve, for instance, revoking bail, revoking conditions of release, putting in and imprisoning a criminal defendant. I don't think we're at that point yet. I don't think we're remotely at that point yet, but that is something that a judge can do if she is faced with significant recalcitrance on the part of a defendant who simply refuses to obey court orders.

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KEILAR: Trump has also claimed that he's not going to get a fair trial in D.C. He wants a venue change. Important to note, his lawyers have not formally made that request. But do you think purely from their perspective that they should?

DUPREE: Well, look, make the request, sure. Is it going to be granted? No. Judges very, very rarely grant these venue change requests. The Constitution provides that trials will occur in the jurisdiction in which the alleged crime was committed. I think what the Trump defense team should be focusing on here is assuming this case goes to trial, making - doing their best to make sure they can get a fair and impartial jury.

And look, they've got a challenge. I mean, it's no secret that the District of Columbia isn't exactly replete with Trump voters. But what they have got to do in questioning potential jurors is sussing out, are these people who even if they vote Democratic, capable of approaching this case in a neutral, independent way and rendering a fair verdict? That's what the task that's ahead of them.

KEILAR: Yes, and that's been the case in so many other January 6th related trials. We have not seen changes of venue granted as well.

Thom Dupree, great to have you. Thank you so much.

DUPREE: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Jim?

SCIUTTO: Ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, Ukraine says it has foiled an assassination plot against President Zelenskyy. What we're learning about that plot and a woman allegedly at the center of it.

Plus, new today, why Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, says he is still holding back against Donald Trump.

And a new study says that many blood pressure results could be "strikingly inaccurate." We're going to tell you the reason why just ahead.

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KEILAR: Officials in Ukraine say they thwarted an assassination attempt on President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. The Ukrainian security service says it has detained a woman who was a Russian informant in connection with the plot. This is both Ukraine and Russia are reporting heavy clashes along the front lines in southern Ukraine with little territory being won or lost.

We have CNN's Nick Paton Walsh's who is live for us near Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine. Nick, first, what more are your sources saying about this informant and the assassination plot?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, it's important to point out that Volodymyr Zelenskyy's life is pretty much always under threat. There's no doubt that Moscow would kill him if they could. And he has been visiting front line locations himself over the past months to corral troops.

But this particular plot has specific details released about it by the Ukrainian security service. And it's unclear really at this point how far advanced it got. But this informant, we don't know her name or nationality, we do know that she worked in a military surplus store and is from Ochakiv, that's a small peninsula down towards Crimea and close too to Mykolaiv, the city where she was, it seems, asked to gather information about a forthcoming, back then, a forthcoming visit by the Ukrainian president.

Messages that she appears to have been exchanging with her apparent Russian interlocutors talk about the timings, the place, the sort of thing you'd need to know if you were trying to plan some kind of attack. Clearly it failed because the visit has passed and she has been apprehended.

And also too, Ukrainian security services do have multiple informants across the country that they arrest often monthly. But something about this appears to have merited it being talked about publicly. We've heard a lot from Ukrainian security services attacking with drones and Russian amphibious assault ships, Russian cargo ships too. But something about this plot clearly felt, made them feel they needed to make it public. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes, really interesting there. So what else can you tell us about the two Americans who have been killed fighting in Ukraine here in the last month?

WALSH: Yes, we know over the past weeks, three Americans have lost their lives. Remember, these are - a lot of these are volunteers, some are medics, some are actual fighters that join a specific foreign legion that is often under the command of Ukrainian defense ministry. We've had two named over the past days. One is Jeffrey Judd Jones, aged 48. Now he apparently was injured indeed last year. A volunteer medic hurt when a wall, it seems, fell on him. But he returned back in April of this year, killed on the 31st of July by a mortar shell. Originally from Maine, but a resident of Georgia.

We're also hearing about Andrew Weber (ph), who died on Saturday, the 29th of July. And less details perhaps about specifically where he was, but he hails from Pacific County, Washington State. Both families talking about the dedication that these men had to helping Ukrainians, often Ukrainian children, by offering their services to Ukraine. Back to you.

KEILAR: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, live for us from Zaporizhzhia, thank you. Jim?

SCIUTTO: The U.S. has now approved the first batch of U.S. Abrams tanks for shipment to Ukraine. This happened just over the weekend. They are on track to arrive in Ukraine, though, just in early fall.

I'm joined now by CNN Military Analyst, Maj. Gen. Spider Marks.

Good to have you on, sir.

Listen, I know it takes time ...

JAMES MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: ... to train up on these things. It took time to get approval for these tanks, overcoming opposition here in the U.S. But the Ukrainians are in the midst of their counteroffensive right now, early fall is quite a long timeline. Is that too late?

MARKS: Well, it's never too late. Look, the Abrams tank is a phenomenal piece of kit. Ukrainians will make great use of it. Let's keep in mind that it's approximately 31 tanks. That's about a battalion-sized force. Is that sufficient to do sufficient damage to really turn the tide of the offensive? No one really knows.

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But I would tell you, any type of capability like this is going to be a plus-up. But again, as you and I have discussed before, Jim, these types of enablers need to be used synchronously with everything else that's out there in terms of great intelligence, long-range fires, maneuver, logistics, et cetera.

And then these tanks are pretty tough to maintain. It's going to come with its own ammunition, maintenance package, spare parts, that kind of stuff.

SCIUTTO: The difficulty for Ukrainian forces has been breaking through Russian defensive lines built specifically to stop tanks like this, 10s of thousands of mines, tank traps, et cetera, to make it very difficult for tanks and other armor to get through. Does the Abrams have particular capabilities or defenses that give it, with highly trained forces, the capability to break through in ways that others have not?

MARKS: Well, the Abrams has some tremendous maneuverability as well as some great armament protection. But what the Abrams has, which most U.S. fighting functional components have, is reach back into tremendous intelligence. So you can make decisions on the move to make a right or a left break. That doesn't mean you want to use a tank as your first effort to try to clear a minefield, because you're probably going to run into a bunch of mines and you're going to immobilize, potentially injure or kill the crew. That's the last thing you want to do.

So the Abrams is not your mine-clearing capability. Your mine-clearing capability is, again, great intelligence that allows you to do prep fires, the use of the conventional munitions that have now been deployed in great numbers, great artillery, very precise artillery fires, to help provide those kinds of avenues in.

SCIUTTO: One challenge for Ukrainian forces is just the nature of this war, it's been almost like two or three different wars, right? If you look at the early phase, defense of Kyiv, small mobile units, Javelin missiles, you had the counteroffensive last fall which was rapid, a bit of a surprise attack up north.

Now you have World War I-like almost, right? Trench warfare, tank traps, et cetera, in the east. I mean, is one of the challenges here that you had to - in a very short period of time, re-kit, re-fit, re- train Ukrainian forces for a whole new kind of battle?

MARKS: Jim, that's a very good question. But what you have with military operations is you have the preponderance of what you're trying to achieve with the deployment of certain kinds of capabilities, and then you have what's labeled as those lesser included mission statements, those mission requirements.

So as this fight has evolved, each one of these weapon systems has played a role, significant role, in each one of those descriptive engagements that you've provided. So it's not like the Ukrainians have to readjust the way they kit themselves and how they want to try to engage in warfare. It's simply using the capabilities they have appropriate to the conditions, but most importantly, to the objectives that they want to achieve.

From the outset, it was the defensive key, and give the Russians every reason to go back, then the offensive. What you have now is after six- plus months of the Russians digging in, you have a different looking fight. But you've got to use the kit appropriately to meet your objectives.

SCIUTTO: Challenging fight there, no question.

Maj. Gen. Spider Marks, thanks so much.

MARKS: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Brianna?

KEILAR: Next, why Ron DeSantis says he's still not going after former president, Trump, despite failing to make up any ground against him in the latest polls.

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SCIUTTO: While Republican presidential candidates may be concentrating on Iowa right now, President Biden is heading out west. He's scheduled to visit Utah and New Mexico this week. Plus, Arizona tonight, just as the Southwest is trying to recover from record-breaking heat. But the President's message will go far beyond the climate crisis. He's there to talk a lot about the economy. CNN White House Correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, joins us.

And Jeremy, listen, there's a lot of great economic news out there. The White House believes it is not getting enough attention. That seems to be part of the President's plan here.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jim. And this month of August marks one year since several key legislative accomplishments by the president were signed into law. And so the White House sees this as an opportunity to try and call attention to those laws and to the effect that they're having on the economy and also on climate change. That's why the President is heading this evening to Arizona, which is his first stop on a three-state tour that the President is doing.

Tomorrow in Arizona, we will hear from the president on that signature climate change fighting law, the Inflation Reduction Act, where the president is going to call attention to his climate change fighting and climate resilience efforts, as well as the record heat that we are seeing in several parts of the country.

On Wednesday, the President then heads to New Mexico, where he will talk about the clean energy manufacturing provisions in that law, also talk about manufacturing broadly with the CHIPS and Science Act, which is also hitting its one-year anniversary this week.

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And then the president on Thursday heads to Utah to talk about the Pact Act, focus on providing veterans benefits to service members affected by burn pits and chemical exposure.