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Soon, Hearing on Protective Order in Election Subversion Case Against Trump; At Least 55 People Killed in Devastating Maui Wildfires; Judge Says Trump's Right to Free Speech is Not Absolute. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 11, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A big moment unfolding this hour, Donald Trump's legal team in front of the judge presiding over the 2020 election case for the first time. What's she's going to say about how much evidence will be talked about in public and will she give any indication on when this trial is going to kick off.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Maui waking up to what is being described as apocalyptic devastation from the wildfire. Some residents say they had no warning that it was time to get out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I sat up on top of the roof, and I battled the fire for about three hours. I couldn't do it anymore. And then I said, I have to move. And then I ran to the ocean and I gave in.

REPORTER: So, you literally saved yourself by jumping into the ocean?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

REPORTER: When you turned around and looked back, what did you see?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Devastation, everything gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Moments ago, former President Donald Trump's lawyers arrived to federal court in Washington. It's a big day for them and for the special counsel as this is the first hearing in the 2020 election subversion case against Trump. And the first time that we will hear from the U.S. district judge, Tanya Chutkan, she is the judge presiding over the whole thing.

Overnight, prosecutors filed a motion asking for the trial here to begin January 2nd. They argue a speedy trial is in the public's best interest. Donald Trump, not surprisingly, lashing out about that on social media with his attorneys also pushing for any trial to be held after the 2024 election. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is outside the court for us in Washington. She joins us now. So, this is all getting underway as we speak, Katelyn. What could happen today?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Kate, there has been the latest discussion about trial dates, but that is not exactly what the judge is going to be determining today. It's going to be something looming over this case throughout, though, because what is on the table today is how fast and how the Justice Department can hand over records to Donald Trump and his team, evidence in this case that they'll need to look at that they've never seen before and review as they head toward trial and prepare for that trial date that will be set at a later time.

So, that evidence discussion, how much Donald Trump can share of it publicly, that is really going to be the legal issue that the judge is going to be looking at today. And we're going to be watching for a lot of things. Does she put a lockdown on Donald Trump so that he can't discuss publicly or discuss with anyone else at all, not even just on social media or in his campaign speeches, the information he's learning about where this investigation has gone so far.

The Justice Department wants that full non-disclosure to be put over all of the evidence that he would be seeing for the first time and learning about in the course of this case. He wants a much smaller segment to be locked down, something that would be called sensitive materials.

And so we're watching for how the judge responds to that. And so we're also watching for her tone. Judge Tanya Chutkan, she is a tough judge. She is also very metered judge in that she holds hearings that really do dig into the legal issues. She seems to move quite quickly. She seems to also be very prepared whenever she gets on the bench.

And so we're watching to see how much she's taking into consideration some other things that Trump and his lawyers and the Justice Department have said so far to her, specifically about social media posts that the former president has made talking about the special counsel's investigation, wanting to come after people. Generally, if she responds to that today, that is something really to watch here.

And then, of course, all of this will matter in the course of a trial date because the sooner that the Justice Department gets an order that they're asking for today and that they're fighting with Trump's team over, the sooner that order gets in place, the quicker Trump's team can start reviewing evidence, meaning the quicker that path begins for the real preparations to get to a trial. Kate?

BOLDUAN: It's great you're there, Katelyn.

[10:05:00]

We're going to stick close to you. Let us know as soon as you hear what's happening in court. Thank you so much.

BERMAN: With us now is former Trump White House Lawyer James Schultz. Jim, great to have you here.

Look, today's hearing is procedural and a little bit in the weeds. But big picture, this is the first time we're going to hear from Judge Chutkan. And, big picture, what signs are you looking for from her?

JAMES SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: So, look, she's a former defender, public defender. So, I think she's going to have a keen understanding and a sensitivity to the rights of a defendant in any case she's looking at. She's also a tough sentence, right? So, she's historically been a very tough sentencer. And I think she's going to be a tough judge in this case, right? She's not going to tolerate, you know, the public display of nonsense, if you will.

And I think what you're going to see in this hearing today is her be very stern, listen to both sides, but be very thoughtful in her determinations. And I think she's likely to, you know, not allow everything to go, like the Trump side wants.

But I also don't think -- I'm sorry -- I think she's going to allow very -- she's going to limit it to that sensitive information, right? She's going to limit it to the sensitive information. That will be in Trump's favor. But I also think she's not going to stop everything like the prosecution wanted. I misspoke there a second ago.

But I do think that she's going to be very firm with Trump in this in his record of kind of going off the rails, if you will, and just doing whatever he wants. She's not going to tolerate that.

BOLDUAN: The special counsel, Jim, filed overnight to ask for the trial to begin on January 2nd. How realistic do you think that is as a trial date?

SCHULTZ: I think that's really aggressive, but I also think this judge is going to look at the speedy trial provisions. It's the defendant's interest, but it's also the public's interest that needs to be balanced here. And I think that Jack Smith did a good job and his prosecutors did a good job of laying that out in the public interest to do this soon.

The lawyers on the other side of the defense are going to argue five months to get ready for trial is just really tough, right? And then the trial is going to land right in the middle of all these primaries.

I'm not sure the judge is going to care about the primaries. I do think she is going to want to make sure that there was fairness. Again, she was a defender. But I think it's realistic that a trial does happen this winter. I just don't think it's early January.

BERMAN: Yes. Maybe February or March might be more realistic.

We just got word that the hearing before Judge Chutkan has begun. So, soon-ish we could get some information about what's going on inside the courtroom. So, stand by for that.

In the meantime, we saw something from Aaron Blake at The Washington Post that caught our attention. He diagrammed a recent Trump media appearance. And Trump seems to be changing the way he is talking about January 6th or talking about the election that he clearly lost. Instead of saying, completely, it was rigged or I definitely won, he's starting to litter the sentences with I believe or in my opinion. Listen to this.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm telling them that, in my opinion, the election was rigged, and they're saying I did something incorrect. I didn't do anything wrong. I believe I won that election by many, many votes, hundreds of thousands of votes. That's what I think.

And I expressed that on the phone call. And I said I don't know what the number was like, 11,000 or something. I said what I need is 11,000 votes. I won this thing by hundreds of thousands of votes. That's my opinion. And it's a strong opinion. And I think it's borne out by the facts and we'll see that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What I think my opinion, I believe all, of a sudden all over his statements, Jim, why?

SCHULTZ: Because that is -- look, in a public setting, he's trying to set the tone that at the time all of this had happened and at the time that all of the allegations -- all the alleged conduct took place, that he believed he won that election. And I think he's trying to reinforce that in his public discourse.

I think it's a little late for that. But, nonetheless, he's trying to reinforce that because in his public discourse because that's where they're going to be going at trial on this is that he believed at the time that the -- that he had won that election, and still believes it today.

BOLDUAN: If he is saying it this way now, does that negate all of the other times that he said without equivocation that the election was stolen and that they had proof and said all of this without the qualifiers that we're now hearing?

SCHULTZ: So, I think the qualifiers have little to do about the affirmative way he did it. I think it's just messaging, you know, for purposes of the trial that his intent at the time, meaning going to his state of mind at the time, his state of mind that he had lost that election.

[10:10:00]

The fact that he's saying it now, I mean, that's going to be one of their arguments in court.

And I think the other side, the prosecution, if you will, is going to put on witness after witness after witness who were in meetings with him and told him that he had lost the election. And, remember, there's still that meeting that took place on the national security issue that we don't know much about, but the fact that he said this is going to be a problem for the next guy, and they alleged that in the indictment. And I think that's going to be key because that also goes to his state of mind as to whether he won or lost that election at that time, or they're going to make that argument.

BERMAN: Jim Schultz, great to have you here. Good eye to Aaron Blake from The Washington post to catch that in that transcript, really interesting.

And one other piece of news, we just got word from the hearing before Judge Chutkan, she says she is prepared to rule on some of the matters before her today. So, there will be news in the next few minutes. Jim, thank you for being with us. Obviously, we'll bring you that news as soon as it comes in.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Jim.

BERMAN: This morning the death toll from the devastating fires on Maui, it has reached at least 55 people. And that number is expected to rise. They've only been able to count the bodies found outside the buildings. They haven't been able to get in because it was just too hot.

Today, extra crews are being brought in for the mainland. They do hope to get inside the structures. Families there desperate for answers about their missing loved ones. Hawaii News Now Reporter Lynn Kawano talked to one woman who says she has not heard from her father in days.

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LYNN KAWANO, HAWAII NEWS NOW REPORTER (voice over): Liza Tobias fled her Lahaina home Tuesday night as flames closed in. She pleaded with her dad, Carlo Tobias, to leave, too. But he refused.

LIZA TOBIAS, FATHER MISSING AFTER FIRES: I wanted to force him to come with me, but he was very hard-headed and he didn't want to come. And he said that he's going to stay and wait for my mom. And my mom worked all the way in Honolua. So, I'm assuming that she would be stuck in traffic and she wouldn't make it back to the house. And no matter how hard I tried to ask him to come, he didn't want to go.

KAWANO: Her mom did get stuck in traffic and sought shelter at Maui Prep (ph). But her dad is still among the missing. Desperate to get to Lahaina, Tobias walked from Kaanapali and found her home, like most others, in ruins. No sign of her dad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Yes. Some survivors say they did not get a warning until it was too late. At 8:38 A.M., they county Facebook page put out a message ordering evacuations around Lahaina Intermediate School. The school ended up not being in the areas most affected by the fires. About 90 minutes later, just after 10:00 A.M., the county said the fire was 100 percent contained.

Now, the next evacuation message came nearly 5.5 hours when some say it was too little too late.

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COLE MILLINGTON, LOST HOME AND BUSINESS IN WILDFIRES: There wasn't really an evacuation notice for us. It was more we realized that the town and our street looked like it was going to burn. My phone got one ping as I was getting into my truck, and that was the only evacuation notice we had.

That warning was completely useless. We have tsunami warnings that I think should've been utilized. I think this could have been handled so much better in so many ways, but so many of us residents felt like we had absolutely no warning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, this morning CNN is on the ground in Lahaina, of course, getting a closer look at the scope of the damage and what they're dealing with in this moment.

CNN's Bill Weir walks us down historic Front Street. Watch this.

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BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: This is the historic banyan tree, 150-year-old majestic tree at the center of Lahaina town. It looks like it may have survived. It needs water desperately to survive right now. But for the locals who are coming down and looking at the damage, this is such a sign of hope that maybe their iconic tree will have lived when so much else is gone here.

But the history can never be replaced. Right here, this is the first hotel in Hawaii, the Pioneer Hotel, Pioneer Theater. It's completely gone. Right over here was the library. It's just now a stone shell of scorched blocks. Around Front Street there, Fleetwoods, Mick Fleetwood of the band Fleetwood Mac, his place is gutted out with flames. It's just unrecognizable. One of the most charming, beloved port cities anywhere in the world is just scorched like a bomb went off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Bill Weir for that.

Now, as of now, the wildfires in Hawaii, they are the second deadliest in the U.S. in the last hundred years. But officials fear the current death toll of 55 that it will almost definitely rise.

Let's get right to CNN Meteorologist Derek Van Dam to get a sense of what the situation will be like over the next 24 hours, Derek, as they try to recover. Are they going to face more fires?

[10:15:00] DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, the search and recovery efforts there are going to be impacted by the weather going forward, but not like what they were when they were at the peak of this fire event. So, the winds have certainly relaxed. There's no question about that. But there are still embers and there are still flare-ups and there are still hot spots, at least according to the official statement from the Maui County earlier -- roughly about 12 hours ago.

Now, you can see the wind forecast that we have here picking up through the course of the weekend. It was at a northeasterly direction, and then it changes to more of an easterly wind. This is a typical trade wind setup that the Hawaiian Islands receive. But, remember, it was Hurricane Dora in combination with this high-pressure system that put the strong winds funneling across the islands.

One thing interesting to note, we have the ability to detect the hot spots. And during the height of the wildfire event, here's the up country, here's Lahaina. Look at as we fast forward to present moment in time. Those hot spots have basically diminished across the entire island. And the latest numbers we have is an 80 percent containment on the Lahaina fire, again, with the exception of those hot spots and flare-ups that are still ongoing for that area.

In terms of rainfall, we could use it, but it's unlikely that we'll get it because of the leeward side where Lahaina is located. The majority of the rainfall over the coming days will be across the higher elevations and on the east-facing slopes. John?

BERMAN: All right. Derek Van Dam, thank you for that update. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, a military shakeup in Ukraine. President Zelenskyy has dismissed all officials in charge of regional military recruitment centers. Why? We have the details coming in, next.

Plus, a key inflation gauge is offering a new look at where prices may be headed, a critical signal for the Federal Reserve as they consider the next possible move.

And minutes from now, former Vice President Mike Pence is going to take the stage at the Iowa State Fair. Yesterday, he was accused of treason by a Trump supporter. What's going to happen today? We'll be back.

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BERMAN: All right. Just into CNN, the first hearing before the federal judge who will hear the January 6th case against Donald Trump, Judge Tanya Chutkan, that hearing began really just a few minutes ago about 10, 15 minutes ago. Already, we are getting very interesting tidbits from inside the courtroom about how Judge Chutkan will handle this case going forward, some real signs of where things are headed.

So, let's get right to Katelyn Polantz here for these tidbits, the judge wasting no time here, Katelyn. POLANTZ: No time at all. 20 minutes into this hearing and it already is about Donald Trump's speech outside of the courtroom. And I want to read a quote that the judge just spoke from the bench in considering whether she can put some sort of overlay, an order that essentially tells him he can't disclose evidence he's learning in the course of this pre-trial preparation as his team is preparing.

She says, Mr. Trump, like every American, has a first Amendment Right to free speech, but that right is not absolute. In a criminal defendant's case such as this one, the defendant's free speech is subject to the rules. And Judge Chutkan is already indicating that she is ready to make rulings, making decisions today in court about how this case is going to go forward.

And at one point, too, a Justice Department attorney said to her that they believe that Trump wants to try this case in the media before trial, and she did indicate that she does want to address that today during this hearing.

Some of the other things she's saying is that she does want to make sure her rulings are taken into consideration the safety of witnesses. So, perhaps, some limitations on what Trump can say about the evidence he is learning from what witnesses may have said against him or about him in grand jury proceedings, other evidence he would learn about what witness testimony has been to this point.

She also has indicated that she does believe there needs to be an order like this because this is a judicial context, this is not a political context, and that you have to protect the jury pool. That jury pool should not be tainted because Donald Trump, as a criminal defendant here, deserves a fair trial. John?

BERMAN: So, we might learn as soon as today the types of things that Donald Trump will and will not be permitted to say in public about this case, specifically about the evidence in this case.

Also very interesting, Katelyn, that the judge already talking about his language regarding witnesses. The one witness or potential witness that I know he's spoken about is Mike Pence, the former vice president of the United States, whom he is running against in the Republican primary.

POLANTZ: Right. So, there was a social media post where Donald Trump did speak about Mike Pence and Mike Pence's actions on January 6th. And Mike Pence is one of those witnesses who's very likely to have to testify at a trial here because he was compelled by the Justice Department to talk to the grand jury about his firsthand understanding, or his firsthand witnessing what happened between him and Donald Trump on January 6th and in the days leading up to that, clearly a crucial witness.

Now, we're also waiting to see if the judge will address other things Donald Trump has put on social media. He did speak very generally about, if you go after me, I'm coming after you, in all caps, social media post just the other day, where his team said that was general, it wasn't about this particular case. [10:25:09]

But he has had several posts saying that Jack Smith, the special counsel here, is deranged. He also has posted about the judge. We'll see how far she actually goes in wanting to talk about his post on social media.

But we do know that just from what the context of this hearing is, the judge is going to be making sure that there are some limitations, at very least, over what can be said, what can be disclosed about what's in the evidence, the evidence that Trump and his team have never seen before that the Justice Department is going to be giving to them.

BERMAN: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for that update. We'll let you get back to the phone lines to communicate with our people who are inside the courtroom, and bring us the very latest on what's going on. Thank you so much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: All right. So, this morning, a key inflation report is offering another read on the state of the economy right now, and what direction it is headed, the Producer Price Index.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is here with more on this. So, what is the PPI adding to the picture that we've been talking about?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: This is not a five-alarm fire, but it's something to keep our eye on. Because annual inflation rising 0.8 percent, that is higher than expectations. And month-over-month also rising 0.3 percent better -- actually not better, worse than what people were predicting. But core inflation, and this is stripping out volatile fields, like food and energy, rising on the month but staying steady on the annual basis.

But let's look at this sort of from the big picture. When you look at where inflation was, the Producer Price Index was last year, skyrocketing to nearly 12 percent. Now, we've dropped significantly to 0.8 percent, and so has CPI, that's prices for consumers. And we are trending either at or below where we were pre-pandemic.

But for consumers, you might want to pay attention to this, because what businesses pay to suppliers gets passed down to consumers. Markets also reacting to this news down on this news, because they're concerned that the Fed is going to look at this and possibly raise interest rates in September. That's something that the markets don't like to see.

BOLDUAN: Right, of course. And also we just got in a new read on consumer sentiment, how consumers are feeling right now. What are you seeing?

YURKEVICH: Seeing that they're still feeling pretty good about the economy, just dropping slightly from July. But look where it was in August. That's a huge jump. So, consumers still feeling really good. On this news, markets jumped. So, that's why the Federal Reserve needs to look at all of these economic data points. Take a look at the big picture and then make their key decision in September. BOLDUAN: Thanks, Vanessa. John?

BERMAN: All right. Dozens have already died from the wildfires across Maui. The danger is not over yet. A local official joins us, ahead.

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FLORIAN BAYOL, LOST HOUSE AND CAR IN WILDFIRES: I compare to The Walking Dead. It was completely apocalyptic. People were swerving around, accidents. And, yes, it was -- everybody was trying to run to save their lives.

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