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Grand Jurors Arrive at Fulton County Courthouse; Security High in Atlanta; At Least 96 Dead in Maui Fires. Jeremy Greenberg is Interviewed about Hawaii. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 14, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Aa new indictment against Donald Trump could come in the next two days. A grand jury has just arrived at a Georgia courthouse. CNN has an exclusive look at texts and emails that could be crucial evidence.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The grim reality setting in on the island the Maui. The death toll has gone up again this morning. Ninety-six people have been killed in the fires so far. And it still could rise even more as crews are painstakingly making their way through the burn areas.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Today, six white former Mississippi police officers are due in court facing several state charges after being accused of torturing two black men in a racist assault.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: So, this morning, the beginning of what could be a two-day stretch that could bring a new indictment against Donald Trump for trying to overturn the election. This is the case in Georgia that appears this case could ensnare the greatest number of people yet and create some of the most complicated problems for Trump if convicted. He would not be able to pardon himself even if elected president.

And, this morning, CNN has exclusive reporting that reveals some of the evidence against him. Sources say Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has texts messages and emails that directly link Trump's inner circle to a Georgia voting system breach. She is presenting to a grand jury that meets only Mondays and Tuesdays. We just got word that grand jury has arrived at the courthouse by bus. And we know that tomorrow two key witnesses are set to testify. It does seem possible that charges could come as early as tomorrow.

Security is high outside the courthouse. Now Trump himself, who denies any wrongdoing has said he will likely be arrested.

CNN's Sara Murray is live outside the courthouse this morning, which will see a lot of activity in the next two days.

Sara.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. I mean what we're really seeing are the next steps of a two-and-a-half-year criminal investigation that Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has been presiding over. She is likely to begin presenting evidence before the grand jury today. It could take up to two days for her to make her presentation and we're told that she's going to seek charges against more than a dozen individuals related to this case.

Again, into efforts by Donald Trump, as well as a number of his allies, to try to overturn the 2020 presidential election in Georgia. An investigation that includes that breach you were talking about, that includes fake electors, that includes Trump's infamous phone call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

Now, over the weekend, Donald Trump was asked about his mounting legal problems in this case. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any chance you'd take a plea deal in Georgia?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I do plea deals. We did nothing wrong. We don't ever take a plea deal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

TRUMP: We don't take plea deals. It's a wise guy question. You're just a wise guy. We don't take plea deals because I did nothing wrong. It's called election interference. Do you know what that is? Because this is -- these indictments are brought out by Biden, who can't even put two sentences together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, all of this is happening as my colleague, Zach Cohen and I, are learning that investigators in this case have text messages and emails that link members of Trump's team with this voting systems breach that happened in rural Coffee County, Georgia.

So, there was this written invitation to access the county's system from a local election official, Misty Hampton. It made its way to a number of folks working with Donald Trump on his post-election legal efforts, people like Katherine Friess, people like Sidney Powell.

And I want to read you some of the text messages. This comes from Sullivan Strickler, a firm that was hired to access these voting systems in Coffee County. An employee says this in a group text. "Just landed back in D.C. with the mayor," an apparent reference to Mayor Giuliani. "Huge things starting to come together." The person goes on to say, "most immediately, we were just granted access by written invitation to Coffee County's systems. Yay."

[09:05:09] When I talked to Giuliani's attorney, he insisted Rudy Giuliani had nothing to do with the Coffee County breach. But, of course, we know he is a target in this investigation and one of the people who could potentially face charges when those are announced.

John.

BERMAN: All right, and that evidence could come up in the next two days.

Sara Murray, at her perch, outside the courthouse, thank you very much.

Want to give you a quick sense of the geography here and the layout that we are dealing with. This was the election result in Georgia in 2020. You will see Joe Biden won by 11,779 votes. That was the number Trump -- you could hear him on the phone call -- asks Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state, for more votes than that.

Fulton County is where this grand jury is hearing. You can see Fulton County is a county that is overwhelmingly blue. Joe Biden won this county by nearly 250,000 votes.

And then Coffee County, which Sara Murray was talking about right there, where the text messages and emails come from, in the southern part of the state, a very red county. But look how few people actually live there. You're dealing with 14,000, 15,000 voters total. Yet the text messages and emails from there could prove crucial in this investigation. Just one piece of trivia, next to Coffee County, if you're looking for breakfast themes, is Bacon County.

Beat that, Kate.

BOLDUAN: I'm just looking for egg county, that's all I need now.

John, thank you so much.

Joining us now to not talk about breakfast but to talk about the legal ramifications here, CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Let's get back to some of Sara Murray's great reporting that prosecutors are in possession of text messages and emails directly connecting members of Donald Trump's legal team to this Coffee County breach.

What kind of evidence is this?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It's the kind of evidence prosecutors love because it's irrefutable, right? You have a text. You have an email. There you go. Show it to the jury. You don't need some eyewitness explaining what they may or may not remember, what they may have not seen or heard.

The other thing that I think prosecutors will really find valuable about this is it's just concrete action, right? There's arguments about, well, Donald Trump, he made a phone call. He asked somebody to do something. Is that protected speech? Does that cross the line into criminality? Whatever that may be, when you are actually authorize -- without authority accessing voting machines, that's clearly over the line of criminality.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it went beyond a conversation of wouldn't this be great if we could find these things in Coffee County.

HONIG: Yes.

BOLDUAN: It was far beyond that.

HONIG: Exactly. And the question is, who's implicated. I mean, clearly whoever is on the other end of those texts is implicated.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HONIG: How high up does it go though? How - how high can prosecutors draw that line?

BOLDUAN: That's kind of -- that is one of my questions, which is, how could this -- does this fit into what is expected to be coming with kind of a focus on RICO and racketeering charges?

HONIG: Yes, so it's an interesting example of why racketeering charges may make sense here. Racketeering under Georgia law, and federal law, and most state law, basically means you have a group of individuals organized who commit a series of crimes together that are interconnected. You don't necessarily have to show that every single individual was a part of every single crime, but that this was essentially an ongoing criminal concern. And so evidence like this, even if you can't necessarily directly draw, let's say, Donald Trump into it, you can still argue that it's part of the overarching racketeering scheme here.

BOLDUAN: So if - we're talking about kind of - I'll call it a web or a net or like how wide it eventually is cast.

HONIG: Yes.

BOLDUAN: The former Georgia lieutenant governor, Geoff Duncan, he received notice he'll be testifying tomorrow. He has received notice with regard to all of this investigation.

I want to play for you his take from this weekend on how he sees this as different, this - this is - this potential indictment is different from others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF DUNCAN (R), FORMER GEORGIA LT. GOV.: I think the interesting part to this indictment that's different than the others is that there's going to -- heavy signaling that there's going to be 12 plus co-conspirators. And these folks don't have the same level of loyalty they had to Donald Trump when he was trying to change the election outcome in 2020. And so it's going to be interesting to see which way they go.

And, you know, these are serious charges that are being singled, racketeering, conspiracy, RICO. I mean these are things really, you know, kind of garnered for the - the mafia or the mob.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Elie, what do you think of that? I mean what he's kind of setting up is, these people are - these people are potentially ripe for flipping.

HONIG: I think he's right. I think Geoff's definitely correct that this is going to be a bigger indictment in terms of the number of people and I think the level of detail that we're going to get about what happened in Georgia.

Keep in mind, though, Jack Smith has charged Georgia already as part of his federal indictment. He charges all seven states.

BOLDUAN: Right.

HONIG: Now, legally, that doesn't mean the states cannot also charge, but I do think there's a legitimate question about what will this add? Will this be duplicative of what Jack Smith has, or will it just add detail or will it really change things all together?

[09:10:02]

But I do think Geoff's absolutely right, that the more people you indict, especially at lower levels, that's more opportunities to flip people to get cooperators.

BOLDUAN: In mentioning Jack Smith's investigation and now the indictment that Donald Trump is facing with regard to the federal charges on the 2020 election, over - we - we - just -- they were just in court on Friday getting a warning, among other things, from Judge Chutkan to say essentially be careful what you're saying in public. And then Donald Trump, overnight, was on social media and he went after the judge, by name, went after Judge Tanya Chutkan, citing a statement that she had made during the sentencing of a January 6th rioter, and accusing her of being highly partisan, bias and unfair and saying also, quote, "she obviously wants me behind bars."

How does this line up with the warning that she offered literally just three days ago to avoid inflammatory language?

HONIG: He can't help himself. And that's not an excuse. It's outrageous. It is directly contrary to what the judge just warned him against.

Now, sometimes people try to do this because they're trying to get away from their judge. They want to say, well, Judge, you're biased and we've had these sort of dust ups, therefore we need a new judge. Judges aren't going to go for that.

BOLDUAN: OK. HONIG: Judge Chutkan is not going to go for that.

Also, I think it has to be said, these accusations by Donald Trump, completely unfair, completely unwarranted. She has had other January 6th cases. he has handled them properly. She has sentenced them appropriately. She's not been overturned on appeal on anything. So, these are just outrageous comments.

It will be interesting to see whether Judge Chutkan does anything about this and, if so, what. I do think, from her point of view, her perspective may be better for him to come at me, I'm a judge, I can handle it, than to do things that may interfere with witnesses or with the jury pool.

BOLDUAN: Because witnesses were specifically mentioned in court on Friday, not necessarily talk about don't go after me.

HONIG: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Maybe she didn't - maybe that's - maybe that's, yes, this doesn't actually walk up to the line in the grand scheme of things maybe for her.

HONIG: Yes, judges and prosecutors are sort of willing to take those slings and arrows.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HONIG: But when you get the jury - the jurors and the witnesses involved, that's different.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Elie. Thank you.

HONIG: All right. Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right, back to the potential indictment in Georgia.

Security is being ratcheted way up around the courthouse in Atlanta ahead of this possible indictment. Around the court, orange barriers are up, streets are closed and there's an increased police presence. For weeks concerns over safety have been heightened as Trump escalates his attacks against Fani Willis and the case. Trump, multiple times, calling her a racist and her investigation corrupt.

CNN's Nick Valencia is closely following all of this.

CNN, we see -- Nick, we see those barriers there. We see the sheriff's department behind you. What are you hearing from police?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, I just spoke to the Fulton County sheriff's office this morning and they tell me that there is currently no credible threat to security outside of the courthouse. And that is welcome news for a sheriff's department that has done a lot in recent weeks to prepare for the worst here. There's been legitimate concerns of safety situations here outside of the courthouse, if only because of the explosive rhetoric coming from the former president.

District Attorney Fani Willis has spoken about it publicly, talking about receiving countless threats, some of them credible threats, so much so where she's had to change her own personal security. And we're also seeing changes in security outside the Fulton County Courthouse. These metal barricades went up a couple weeks ago. They join those plastic barricades, some of which are filled with water. The street, Pryor Street, right in front of the courthouse is shut down to vehicle traffic. Foot traffic is still wide open.

We've already seen in -- a couple weeks ago we saw a Trump protester here, a huge flag, bull horn, heralding the former president's rhetoric about this being a politically motivated investigation, about racist -- Fani Willis being a racist. That's the only protester, though, in the last two weeks that we've seen here really come out and make a statement. Other than that the streets really are quiet. There's just foot traffic here in downtown L.A. (ph) And, again, really want to emphasize what we heard this morning, the good news from the Fulton County Sheriff's Office, says there are currently no credible threats outside of the court, but they say they are ready for anything.

Sara.

SIDNER: Nick Valencia, thank you for that and giving us a view of all that is standing outside of that court security-wise.

John.

BERMAN: All right, new questions this morning about the response to the deadly wildfires on Maui and why residents got no warning. The lawsuit just filed.

Former President Trump stealing the spotlight and the crowds in Iowa. So, how do those Republican rivals compete?

And Ukraine says Russian shelling over the weekend killed at least two dozen people, including a newborn baby.

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BERMAN: This morning, the death toll from the fires on Maui stands at 96 and rising still. It is the deadliest wildfire in the U.S. in the last century. Expert search and rescue crews are on the way to Maui, along with 20 more cadaver dogs. Only about 3 percent of the fire zone has been searched by cadaver dogs so far. Authorities are now asking family members to provide DNA to help identify the dead. Only two of the 96 bodies have been identified.

This morning, Hawaii's governor has ordered a comprehensive review of what happened in the early hours of the fire and why there were no sirens warning to evacuate. He also shed light on the extraordinary speed of the fire, comparing it to a fire hurricane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH GREEN (D-HI): When the winds rose up, winds gusting as high as 81 miles per hour, the fire spread rapidly. We believe between 60 miles per hour and 81 miles per hour across that part of the island. And that meant that the fire traveled one mile every minute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The power company is now facing a lawsuit for not cutting electricity when forecasters warned about powerful wind gusts.

CNN's Mike Valerio is on Maui for us this morning.

And, Mike, it really does seem that we are still only now beginning to come to grips with the shear amount lost.

[09:20:00]

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, I think that could be the most powerful understatement of the morning there. We are, to set the scene here, at a checkpoint that is the only way to get inside the Lahaina disaster zone. We're pretty much perched on a cliff about 1,000 feet above the Pacific Ocean. A pretty perilous route to get into this incredibly sensitive, hazardous terrain.

But, as you can see how not busy things are at 3:00 a.m., Saturday there were lines of cars about a mile long to get in. So, I described that to convey that pretty much everybody, John, who has needed to see what has survived inside the disaster zone has done so. So, we move on to finding the missing, searching for human remains, and searching for accountability.

John, it has been incredible to be on Maui over the past few days and hear people go from a sense of shock, sitting shiva for what they once knew of their Maui, of their Lahaina, and then into discussions of, what did the state know? Wildfires have become more and more common.

Speaking to Senator Mazie Hirono on that point, here's what she told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): I'm not going to make any excuses for this tragedy, but the attorney general has launched a review of what happened with those sirens and some of the other actions that were taken. So that is happening.

And, you know, there will be time enough, I would say, for those kinds of reviews and investigations to occur. But we are really focused, as far as I'm concerned, on the need for rescue and, well, the location of, we know, sadly, more bodies.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VALERIO: So, in that vein of searching for accountability, a lawsuit filed against Hawaiian Electric, the utility here. And, bottom line, in the short time we have left, John, it's about not switching off live wires when there were hurricane-force winds. In California, since the Camp Fire in 2018, it's become more and more common to shut off power lines when they can topple over and potentially spark a wildfire. That didn't happen here. Citizens are trying to make this a class action lawsuit, again, to get some answers and prevent this from happening, John.

BERMAN: Yes, it really is still remarkable to see the images that have been flashing up on our screen here, Mike, of a fire that did not burn itself out until it reached the ocean. The only thing to stop it, is seems, was the ocean.

Mike Valerio, on Maui. Mike, great reporting. Thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: We're joined now by Jeremy Greenberg, the director of the operations division for FEMA's Response Directorate.

Thank you so much for being here.

You know, this is now the deadliest U.S. wildfire in - in recent times that we've ever seen in more than a century. There were all sorts of problems that we just heard. There were problems with the mitigation that could have happened before. There were no sirens that went off. Is the government partly to blame for this large loss of life?

JEREMY GREENBERG, DIRECTOR OF THE OPERATIONS DIVISION, FEMA'S RESPONSE DIRECTORATE: Good morning.

First and foremost, I'd like to offer our condolences to all of those who have been impacted by this tragic fire. And while we know that there will be a review on the actions taken, the most important point right now that we really want to stress is the recovery operations, making sure that the federal government is supporting the state of Hawaii in their search operations and, most importantly, starting the difficult process of recovery.

SIDNER: I know that is really important to the folks on the ground there, the citizens that have lost things. They are certainly trying to figure out where they go. But I do want to understand because there was a lot of frustration on the part of residents there. They feel, in some ways, that the government failed them.

Do you see these missteps and what can be done to rectify that?

GREENBERG: We do know that there were alerts that were pushed out the evening of the fire. And as previously reported, this fire moved so fast, so quickly through the impacted area that there was very little time to move out of the way.

And as mentioned, we know that the state will be looking into all of the actions and FEMA and all of our interagency partners will be there to support them through the review and through the entire recovery.

SIDNER: Can I ask you, you're on the ground right now, what is FEMA doing now to help those most in need?

GREENBERG: So, FEMA administrator, the U.S. fire administrator, the small business administrator and over 250 FEMA personnel have been on the ground for the past few days working directly with the state. In the initial response, FEMA provided urban search and rescue capability, emergency communications resources, as well as food, water and shelter items to ensure those who were impacted had everything they needed.

As we work through the recovery operations, the most critical point that we want to stress is getting people registered.

[09:25:02]

We have over 3,000 people who have registered so far and we want to encourage anyone who's been impacted by this to register for FEMA assistance using our 800 number, which is 1-800-621-3362. They can also use disasterassistance.gov or our FEMA app.

Additionally, we want people to register with the Red Cross at 1-800- 733-2767. This registration will allow people to start that process of recovery.

SIDNER: OK, so start the process of recovery, meaning they can get funds, they can get started getting some help in dealing with this disaster.

I do want to, you know, talk to you about FEMA. You know, in the past it has been criticized for a slow response. And, you know, during Maria, after that hurricane in Puerto Rico, and, obviously, the - Katrina in New Orleans.

What's being done to mitigate that, to make sure your response is on time and right there trying to help the people that need it?

GREENBERG: So, FEMA has a permanent presence in the state of Hawaii. We have a Pacific area office that works directly with the state of Hawaii day in and day out on planning efforts, mitigation efforts, response and recovery operation, as well. And we also have a distribution center in Hawaii where we stock commodities such as food, water, shelter items and medical equipment.

So, immediately after the incident started, FEMA was in contact with the state officials making determinations on what types of resources they needed. And the team that's in the Pacific area office started working directly. And then over the past several days we've been deploying everything the state has needed, whether it's been the urban search and rescue capability you talked about earlier, emergency communications and now we're flowing in additional people who are in shelters, in recovery centers, working with people in Hawaii to make sure that they're make - they're getting registered for the assistance that the federal government, not just FEMA, but all of our interagency partners can provide. SIDNER: From what you have learned and ascertained from those folks

that are on the ground dealing with this, what is the greatest need in Hawaii right now?

GREENBERG: Well, the search operations continue and we know that there's going to be a difficult recovery. So we have -- working with the Small Business Administration, our Housing and Urban Development partners and other federal agencies, meeting with the state to make determination -- or make plans on how the recovery operations will occur, make sure that shelters are set up. There's a -- temporary shelter assistance programs have been turned on to ensure those who need it can be placed into hotels or other lodging options and then move through that process to bring some semblance back to normalcy in - in Maui.

SIDNER: And for the people that are there, I think some of the most important information you just gave is register with FEMA, register with the Red Cross. Those numbers are on the website. They can get those and make sure that they are able to get their names in so that they can get the help that they need as fast as possible.

Jeremy Greenberg, thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate your time.

GREENBERG: Thank you.

SIDNER: And for more information on how you can help wildfire victims, go to cnn.com/impact or text "Hawaii" to 707070 to donate.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the Iowa State Fair was in full swing this weekend and swarmed by Republican presidential candidates. How Donald Trump tried to outshine them all with his quick drop in at the fairgrounds.

Plus, an investigation is underway into why a house in Pennsylvania just exploded -- look at the aftermath -- on Saturday, killing several people, including a child. We have details on that ahead.

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