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Death Toll Rising in Hawaii; Grand Jury Meets in Trump Georgia Election Case. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 14, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A pivotal grand jury meeting in Atlanta, jurors hearing evidence against former President Donald Trump and others in a case about election interference, a possible fourth indictment looming against Trump. And it could be the most complex yet, even ensnaring several others in his inner circle.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Pointing the finger. A new lawsuit blames the power company for those catastrophic wildfires on Maui, but officials have not yet said what caused them.

The humanitarian crisis is growing, along with the death toll, the fires now the deadliest in more than a century, survivors coping with losing their homes, loved ones, the threat of homelessness as well.

And an act of piracy, that is what Ukraine is calling Russia's boarding of a cargo ship in the Black Sea, the latest fight over shipping in this critical area since a key grain deal collapsed last month.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Today, another grand jury is meeting hearing another set of evidence that could lead to another indictment of Donald Trump, this one in downtown Atlanta. A vote on whether to indict could come as soon as tomorrow on charges tied to Trump's efforts to overturn Joe Biden's 2020 win in the Peach State.

Fulton County district attorney Fani Willis is presenting her case today, and CNN has exclusively learned it includes some bombshell evidence, text messages and e-mails that directly connect Trump's legal team to a voting system breach after the election, all of this as Trump levels fresh criticisms at the DA and a key witness.

Let's take you now live outside the courthouse in Fulton County with CNN's Sara Murray.

Sara, we are in the home stretch of this long, long investigation. Bring us up to speed on what we can expect, especially about that new evidence.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. I mean, we are really at the culmination of two-and-a-half years of

criminal investigation by Fulton County district attorney Fani Willis. And we know that there are witnesses who have already gone before this grand jury today that is hearing the case against former Donald Trump and his allies and their efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

So, we saw former state Democratic Senator Jen Jordan. She just departed the courthouse. We previously confirmed that she was here to testify in this Trump case. We also got a statement from former Democratic State Representative Bee Nguyen, who confirmed she too was here to testify in the Trump case.

Both of these women were witnesses to these conspiracy-laden presentations that Rudy Giuliani and other members of Trump's post- election legal team gave before Georgia state lawmakers in December of 2020. And, again, we're waiting to see when these indictments could potentially come down. This could take up to two days for her to present her case.

And she's expected to seek charges against more than a dozen individuals, Boris.

SANCHEZ: And, Sara, that voting system breach, that was in Coffee County, right, an area that Donald Trump won by about 70 percent. So why was there an effort to even breach that voting system?

MURRAY: Well, yes, we have been learning more information about this voting system's breach that is just one of the prongs of this investigation.

And we have learned that investigators here have text messages and e- mails about the breach that lead to Trump's team. They have long suspected that this was more of a top-down push, rather than a grassroots efforts by Trump backers to try to help.

And it seemed to be an effort, essentially, to try to explore these voting systems. We learned about this written invitation that came from Misty Hampton, who was an election official, and was shared with other lawyers who were working with Donald Trump on his post-election efforts, people like Katherine Friess.

We, of course, know Sidney Powell was part of that mix who was working with Donald Trump post-election. I want to read a couple of these texts that came through a firm that was hired to examine the voting machines.

In one of the texts, it says: "Just landed back in D.C. with the mayor," an apparent reference to former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani. "Huge things starting to come together."

[13:05:03]

The texts continue: "Most immediately, We were just granted access by written invitation to Coffee County's systems. Yay."

These messages were sent in January 2021 right around the time the breach occurred. And, again, Giuliani's attorney has insisted he had nothing to do with this. We will see what the grand jury has to say.

SANCHEZ: Sara Murray live outside that courthouse in Atlanta for us -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: With a possible grand jury vote on a Trump indictment as soon as tomorrow in Georgia, the former president on the public attack again, going after key players and witnesses in the 2020 election interference case.

CNN's Alayna Treene joins me now.

And, today, Trump -- and this is after, by the way, he received a warning from the judge not to do things that might be perceived as witness intimidation. And yet we have a TRUTH Social posting today.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Exactly.

Donald Trump is reverting to the playbook we have now seen him use three times with the previous indictments that he is facing. He's trying to get ahead of this potential indictment in Georgia and frame it on his own terms. And so I think one of the most concerning things that people pointed out today about his TRUTH Social post is that he attacked directly one of the key witnesses in this Georgia case and said -- quote -- he "shouldn't" testify.

That post reads: "I am reading reports that failed former Lieutenant Governor of Georgia Jeff Duncan," noting that he spelled Geoff's name wrong there -- "will be testifying before the Fulton County grand jury. He shouldn't. I barely know him, but he was right from the beginning of this witch-hunt a nasty disaster for those looking into the election fraud case that took place in Georgia."

He also went on to call him a -- quote -- "loser."

Now, I think the key thing here, Jim, is, it's unclear how a judge, if there are charges brought in this case, would try to talk about his social media activity. We know, as you just mentioned, that, in a separate case, the federal case of Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, she's trying to pose restrictions on his social media activity.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TREENE: I have also spoken with many of Donald Trump's advisers over the weekend, and they tell me that they don't expect him to stop posting on social media.

They think that it's his First Amendment right to do so and that also it's his most direct way of communicating with voters and that he has the right to defend himself. But the key thing here is, is this witness intimidation? Will the judge ultimately decide that he can't be issuing these kind of posts?

SCIUTTO: Has there been any reaction from the court to this yet, or no?

TREENE: Well, so, in this case, it's hard to -- with this exact -- an indictment hasn't been brought.

SCIUTTO: Right.

TREENE: And so I think we have to wait and see how the judge in this case, if there is an indictment, how she would react to these kinds of -- these posts.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

TREENE: Yes.

SCIUTTO: We will see how soon that comes.

Alayna Treene, thanks so much -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: We're now joined by that key witness set to testify tomorrow, former Georgia Lieutenant Governor and CNN political commentator Geoff Duncan. We're also joined by former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us.

Geoff, I want to start with you and get your reaction to that social media post by Donald Trump. He's insulting you and calling you out. Do you believe he's trying to intimidate you as a witness?

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, this close into my testimony, which is going to be tomorrow, I'm going to refrain from any comment, with the exception of saying, which was just pointed out, he did misspell my name.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: And how about what you are anticipating you will be asked about tomorrow?

If you won't comment on what Trump said, can you at least give us an idea of what you're anticipating?

DUNCAN: Well, I'm just going to answer the questions as presented to me, much like I did in the special grand jury. Whatever the question are, to the best of my ability, I'm going to answer the questions.

And this is an important part of the healing process for the Republican Party. This is painful. This may feel ugly to some, but this is part of this process, right? We have got to put these facts and figures and details and reality on display for America, specifically for Republicans to see what reality really is.

And the social media game that Donald Trump has played over the years, it's shallow, right? You don't have to be any more than a few hundred characters' worth of information, with no facts behind it, with no details to stir the crowd. And that's certainly been his game for a number of years. And it looks like it's continuing.

SANCHEZ: Notable that you are not the only person he has gone after on social media. He's also targeted a number of other officials involved in these investigations.

Renato, to you.

How do you read that situation? Is that appropriate? And if you were prosecuting this case, how would you respond to something like that?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Very interesting.

It's a bizarre situation, and it's complicated because, of course, Trump's running for president, and he's got First Amendment rights, and he can go after some of those people, not -- like Mike Pence and so on, certainly has a right to criticize a judge, for example, although it's unwise to do so.

I actually think what the government should do, Jack Smith in the D.C. case, and which I -- which is what I think they are doing, is, using it, putting it in front of the judge, making sure every time he does this, every time he goes across the line, every time he does something inappropriate or wrong regarding his communications, to put it in front of the judge and inspire her to move that trial forward quickly, to inspire her not to cut him additional breaks.

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And, in fact, she's actually mentioned that she may do so, that he's tainting the jury pool, and that may inspire her to move this earlier to avoid any additional tampering.

So, I really think that's one of the consequences for him. I will say, in Georgia, it sure doesn't look like it's helping matters here realistically. Obviously, the lieutenant governor has just said he's not deterred from giving his testimony. It doesn't seem to me that the district attorney is deterred.

Usually, throwing tomatoes at witnesses and prosecutors and the judge in cases that you're in front of is a really bad idea for a criminal defendant.

SANCHEZ: I can't imagine that his attorneys are encouraging him to do this, but the former president doesn't seem to listen to his attorneys or perhaps anyone else.

Geoff, over to you. I want to get your perspective on this key evidence that CNN is reporting on, that there are text messages linking the Trump team to this voting systems breach in Coffee County. I'm wondering if anyone from team Trump reached out to you or people that you know of to try to get access after the 2020 election to other voting systems in Georgia.

DUNCAN: Well, once again, I'm going to refrain from answering any of those detailed questions, just based on the nature of my testimony tomorrow or potential testimony.

But, look, I think, from a broader narrative here, what we're going to see put on display is just a plethora of conspiracy theories that really originated in solutions in search of a problem. Hey, let's do this, and then try to go find a scenario out in -- somewhere in Georgia, whether it be State Farm Arena, or Coffee County, or Brad Raffensperger's office, or Dominion machines.

I mean, the list is endless. And, look, America is begging for new leadership right now, begging, both sides of the aisle. A majority of Democrats don't want to see Joe Biden run again. A majority of Republicans don't want to see Donald Trump run again. But this primary process has got us short-circuited into just feeling like victims of gravity.

This is a painful part of the process for Republicans. I do believe, when this finally gets behind us, we will be a better party for it and a better country for it.

SANCHEZ: Geoff, a very disciplined witness in this grand jury process, obviously.

Renato, over to you.

You heard from Geoff talking about the overarching narrative of what voters are looking for. In this process, does it seem to you that something could be discovered like these text messages that might sway voters to think differently? Is there enough evidence there not only to succeed in a courtroom, but in the court of public opinion?

MARIOTTI: Well, public opinion can be a challenge to move, right?

And I think, as the lieutenant governor just mentioned, sometimes, even where there's no facts, right, where Trump is just tweeting things out or, in this case, TRUTHing it out, there's no facts. It's often contrary to the facts. And, sometimes, it takes time for those facts to reach the public.

What I will say regarding all of this is, from a legal perspective, some of these facts that you alluded to a moment ago, this exclusive CNN reporting about the text messages related to the breach, I mean, that would have a devastating impact in front of a jury if there was a concerted effort by Trump and his associates to try to breach a voting system.

That's the sort of thing that you can't explain away. I think everyone understands that that's a crime. A typical juror who's called to engage in jury service is going to get that, and it could have an impact in other cases like the Jack Smith January 6 case as well.

SANCHEZ: Renato Mariotti, Geoff Duncan, thank you both for the time. Appreciate your expertise.

Thanks -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Let's take a closer look at some of the key players in this case, beginning with Fulton County district attorney Fani Willis here, as well as the other players surrounding Trump at the time.

Fani Willis, she launched this probe back in February 2021, of course, not long after January 6. This followed Trump's find votes call to Brad Raffensperger, where Trump asked him to find -- that's his own words -- enough votes, just enough to overturn Biden's victory.

Trump tried to get her removed from the case, citing a conflict of interest, arguing that she is pursuing the case for political reasons. That effort was rejected.

All right, presiding over the case is Fulton County Judge Robert McBurney. He was assigned to the case. He ordered portions of the special grand jury report to be released to the public, and he has defended the DA's professionalism. He did block Willis from building a case against one particular potential target, former state Senator and current Lieutenant Governor Burt Jones, one of the alleged fake electors in the case, on the grounds that she had hosted a fund-raiser for his political opponent.

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Let's look at another key case mentioned in the previous conversation, Georgia secretary of state Brad Raffensperger. He was the one Trump asked to find those votes, just enough by one vote extra, to overturn the state. Have a listen. This is key.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Conveniently, one more vote than necessary to overturn the results.

Regardless of the president's demand, the former president's demand Raffensperger certified Biden's win in the state of Georgia, recertified the results after Trump's team requested a recount that didn't change the results. He also testified before the special grand jury last year.

Also key, Rudy Giuliani, remember him, former mayor of New York, also former personal attorney for Donald Trump, he oversaw Trump's post- election strategy, including pursuing many of the false claims of fraud. He led efforts to challenge vote-counting efforts in a number of states, not just Georgia, and he presented those bogus fraud claims to lawmakers, state officials, et cetera.

He's very much at the center of this as well. Also involved is former Georgia GOP Chair David Shafer. He played a key role in the electors scheme. He told the House Select Committee that Trump himself directed that scheme, also testified before that grand jury now considering these charges against Trump, potential charges.

Finally, those fake electors we have been talking about, these are folks, 16 GOP activists who attempted to subvert the Electoral College. In effect, the electoral votes that showed Biden's win, they were going to replace them, or at least attempted to. Many of them have actually cooperated with the DA's investigation. As I mentioned earlier, one of these alleged fake electors, Lieutenant

Governor Burt Jones, he is protected from the investigation, but the several others, more than a dozen, in fact, Boris, are still involved. And many of them -- and this is key -- seem to have cooperated.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: Hawaii expecting the death toll to keep rising after those devastating wildfires on Maui, as the state launches a formal review of its emergency response. We're going to take you there.

Plus, Russia accused of piracy after one of its warships fired warning shots and boarded a cargo ship in the Black Sea. What that means for a key global trade route.

And six former Mississippi police officers pleading guilty to state charges for torturing two black men. The sheriff of that department just speaking out about the case.

You're going to hear directly what he has to say when CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

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SANCHEZ: Most of Maui's schools will reopen for the first time today since the deadliest wildfire in 100 years ravaged the historic Lahaina area nearly a week ago in Hawaii; 96 people are confirmed dead, and that toll is expected to rise, with only 3 percent of the disaster area searched so far.

Hawaii's main electric provider now faces a lawsuit, claiming that power lines blown over by high winds ignited the Lahaina fire and that Hawaiian Electric Industries chose not to shut those lines down. No official cause has been determined.

CNN's Mike Valerio is in Maui, where frustration is mounting over their response -- Mike.

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, when we talk about the death toll expected to rise, this is the slow-moving part of the disaster.

What we saw Tuesday into Wednesday, that was the acute, most dramatic pictures that we have been able to see. This is certainly a level of drama in its own right. And why we say that is because specialized crews that focus in on the delicacy of finding human remains are needed when there are quite literally thousands of buildings in the burn zone, Boris, that have not been searched yet.

That is why there is the certainty that this death toll will rise above at least 100. In terms of accountability, we had an interesting development over the weekend, a lawsuit filed against Hawaiian Electric, the main utility that serves the islands.

And the plaintiffs here, a couple from Lahaina, they are asserting that the company did not -- was negligent in failing to turn off the electricity in several power lines that would eventually blow over and perhaps be a contributing factor to the wildfire.

Lots of utilities in California, if there are high winds, do turn off the power in lines that could potentially snap and spark a wildfire. Today, schools are starting to reopen across Maui, staff showing up. The school system had to come to a standstill for most of last week as, if you can imagine, teachers, staff, families trying to find out what happened to family members.

A high school was being used as a shelter. And one school on Front Street was unfortunately lost to the devastation. Finally, wildfire spreading one mile a minute, a staggering figure that is even difficult now to get your head around. This is coming from the governor of Hawaii, saying this is why the wildfire was inescapable.

Something that was once outside the realm of possibility now hauntingly possible, as more disturbing, heart-wrenching developments are to come, Boris.

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SANCHEZ: Our thanks to Mike Valerio for that report -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, spreading at one mile a minute, just hard to imagine.

Well, joining me now is Ilihia Gionson. He's the public affairs officer for the Hawaii Tourism Authority.

Ilihia, thanks so much for joining. I know you and so many of your colleagues there have had so much to handle in these last harrowing days.

Your group helped some 28,000 people leave the island last week. I wonder, as you look back, did people get enough warning of this? Why wasn't there more of a warning?

ILIHIA GIONSON, PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER, HAWAII TOURISM AUTHORITY: It's still really early in this disaster.

We have crews out there looking for those who lost their lives. It's really too early to start pointing fingers and looking at things. But what we do know is that there's an incredible outpouring of aloha for Maui, the families who are affected.

Maui has a population of 150,000, 160,000. On an average day in 2023, there were about 70,000 visitors. And so that gives you an idea of the kind of impact that tourism has on Maui. And so we did our best to help get visitors off of Maui as quickly as possible to alleviate the pressure on the systems, to be able to focus attention and resources where they needed to be focused the most, on the residents.

Last night, we started moving people out of shelters into hotels in West Maui as they regained power, as they were able to get their own employees in there to be ready to host folks. SCIUTTO: Yes.

GIONSON: We're talking evacuees from shelters. We're talking about emergency workers from federal, state, county level getting in there and really doing the work alongside the community to help Lahaina recover.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because I know a count is still being conducted as best you can among residents.

Do you have any estimate of how many visitors to Maui are still missing?

GIONSON: I don't have that number. There's lots of information flying around.

Some, we know to be accurate. Some, we don't. So, it's early to tell numbers.

SCIUTTO: OK.

You're in Honolulu now, where we know an emergency assistance center...

GIONSON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: ... has been established for some of the folks who are now homeless, right?

Tell us what you're seeing there. What is the scale of the need?

GIONSON: Sure.

So the center that we stood up in Honolulu -- and it was good to hear Mike Valerio is safe on Maui. He was there on the first night. The purpose of that was for those visitors getting off Maui who needed to go back home, couldn't quite get their flights right, couldn't quite get their accommodations right.

We had that center to help folks. We were ready for thousands. We saw hundreds. That center has since left the convention center. It's a little closer to the airport now for the smaller number of folks we saw. And, again, the purpose of that was just to free up those resources, free up shelter, space on transportation for the folks of Maui who need it the most.

SCIUTTO: Ilihia Gionson, thanks so much for joining. We look forward to having you back when we know more about this and get more information about who's still missing.

Thanks so much for taking the time.

GIONSON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Boris. SANCHEZ: The head of Russia's largest shipbuilder says that Moscow is working to equip its new nuclear submarines with hypersonic missiles. What that could mean for global security.

Plus: caught on camera, two pilots avoiding tragedy, both of them ejecting from a vintage fighter jet at a Michigan air show.

We're going to show you more of these harrowing moments caught on camera when CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

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