Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump, 18 Others Indicted In GA Election Subversion Case; Trump's Attorney Known For Representing Rappers, Has Slammed Trump In Past; Football Star In "Blind Side" Sues Family That Took Him In. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired August 15, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:45]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election are what got him in the legal trouble in Georgia, but it's not stopping him from repeating it all over again.

A grand jury in Fulton County has now voted to indict him and 18 others on state criminal charges across 41 counts, all of it stemming from their alleged efforts to overturn Trump's loss there.

CNN's Daniel Dale is with us now.

Daniel, Trump has fired off a barrage of false claims about what happened in Georgia since election night in 2020. But give us the truth. Give us the fact-check.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: It's been two and a half years of lies continuing into this morning when he repeated his vague false claim that the election was rigged. We know that's false.

There's also been a bunch of thoroughly debunked specific conspiracy theories. I listed 10 lies in an article, "Ten Lies About Georgia" in an article on CNN.com.

Two of them stand out to me. One of them is this claim about thousands of dead voters in Georgia. At one point, he said it was 5,000. Then he made it 10,000.

And so when reporters said OK give us some names. the Trump campaign provided names. This was in 2020. We looked into them. These were living people.

For example, they claimed that a dead person named Debra Jean Christiansen had somehow cast a ballot. Well, we knocked on the door of the living Debra Jean Christiansen, just a woman who happened to have the same name. So it's an example of just how half-baked many of these lies are.

Another one that stands out is this claim that Trump keeps repeating, thoroughly discredited, thoroughly debunked, about two Fulton County election workers supposedly having been caught on camera stuffing the ballot box, taking ballots out of suitcases. They were completely exonerated by a state investigation.

It stands out to me because two senior officials in Trump's own Justice Department, people he appointed himself, have testified they told him directly in 2020 that there was nothing to this. They were not even suitcases. These people did not scan the ballots over and over. It was all wrong.

And yet, two and a half years later, the former president keeps saying it.

DEAN: And yet, here we are still hearing it.

I also want to ask you about these repeated attacks on Fani Willis, who's the Fulton County D.A. in this case.

In a speech last week, he even claimed that she was having an affair with a gang member. What did you find out about that?

DALE: This stuff is honestly so bananas I'm hesitant to discuss it on television.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: Right.

DALE: Let me take people through it because it's baseless, no evidence. It's a complete distortion.

So there is a rapper named YSL Mondo, who is part of a hip-hop collective that Fani Willis is also prosecuting members of, alleging that their hip-hop group is also a criminal street gang.

Now, YSL Mondo did an interview with "Rolling Stone" magazine in Japan saying, hey, fun fact, when Fani Willis was a defense lawyer in 2019, she actually represented me and we had a cool relationship. She was a great lawyer.

He said we had like auntie-to-nephew, mother-to-son type talks and I'm surprised that she's now basically prosecuting my buddies.

Well, the Trump campaign made an attack ad out of that saying that Fani Willis concealed a relationship with a member of a gang she was prosecuting, even though she didn't.

She told "Rolling Stone," yes, I used to represent the guy when I was a defense lawyer.

Somehow Trump took that further and took hiding a relationship to make it mean she was having an affair, some sort of illicit romantic sexual relationship with a gang member she was prosecuting.

That is completely out of thin air, no basis for it whatsoever. But he said it in a speech, then said it again on social media.

[13:35:01]

DEAN: And you've said it, I'll say it, completely untrue.

But thank you so much for going through all of that step by step. The truth, obviously, so important here.

Daniel Dale, thanks so much.

DALE: Thank you.

DEAN: Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Let's speak now to CNN political commentator, former January 6th Select Committee member, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Thanks so much for taking the time.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You bet.

(CROSSTALK)

KINZINGER: Glad to be with you.

SCIUTTO: You speak to Republican voters. You've won some elections yourself. Trump's support among GOP primary voters has withstood the charges to date.

Now he'll be tried. One of the trials at least might be televised in Georgia. He might be convicted. Does that soften his support over time, or solidify it?

KINZINGER: Yes, look, Jim, I think over time. So once these crimes are done, once people see all the evidence, I hold out hope that there's going to be like a moment of awakening and saying, look, what have we done.

Right now, what you have is, look, to support Donald Trump you have to, like, give a little piece of your soul because you say, well, in 2016, it was I don't like the guy but the Supreme Court's so important.

In 2020, it was I don't like Joe Biden, so I'll support Donald Trump. And then you keep having to invest more and more. It's like the sunken cost fallacy.

In Vietnam, there was a point at which we had lost 10,000 troops and nobody wanted to leave because we'd already invested 10,000 troops' lives in Vietnam, so we have to stay.

And that's kind of, I think, what's happening to a lot of people. To then turn your support against Trump and admit that he's unfit for office, you have to take inventory of the fact that you supported him for so long when he was unfit for office.

But I think at the moment all this evidence is laid out in court -- it may not be directly as a result of that -- but I think that's the beginning of the end of this base of support for him. But it may take some time.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you this. Because you know, of the folks running against Trump now for the nomination, it's only a minority that have directly taken him on for his actions on January 6th, et cetera, not to dismiss this as a totally partisan show.

Is that purely a GOP primary strategy? Of course, assuming anybody but Trump wins the nomination. Because when you're trying to make your case to Independent voters, they believe these are serious charges.

KINZINGER: Yes, it'll be -- if any of these people besides Donald Trump happens to win the election, win the primary, yes, they're going to be trying to run to the middle a little bit. But the base is so rabidly pro Trump that they can't do it.

And what amazes me, Jim, is like, if you're going to run for president and the frontrunner is Donald Trump, you literally have two choices.

You either have to take him on -- and boy, you don't have to look for a lot of issues. The guy broke the law a bunch. And he's now out on bail three different times, now soon to be a fourth. That's a pretty good thing to run against him on.

So you either have to do that or just drop out and endorse him. Because he's way ahead anyway.

I don't understand how these folks are scared to speak out against him. It's fine. If you're scared of doing it or you don't want to do it, I get it. Then drop out of the race because it doesn't make sense for you to be there right now.

Chris Christie's spoken loudly. Will Hurd. Asa Hutchinson and Mike Pence to an extent. I want to see people like Tim Scott, who knows better, start to really speak out, too.

SCIUTTO: The folks who've tried to walk that -- ride the fence, it hasn't worked out particularly well for them, at least in polling so far.

We do have a Republican debate coming up in the midst of all this. You have two folks on stage to this point who've qualified who, to some degree, have been able to criticize the president, been willing to, Pence and Christie.

Do you expect that debate to be centered around that interaction there? Because you can imagine how the audience might respond to Pence or Christie going after the current favorite for the nomination.

KINZINGER: Yes, I think the debate has to be, at least with those two -- I don't know if Mike Pence will be aggressive because he's kind of walked the line a little bit. He's spoken out a little more recently.

I mean, he could have been, by the way, the leader of this whole thing if he'd have just stuck with that from January 7th.

But Chris Christie will be. He's realizing that he's not playing to the crowd that's there on the debate stage. He's talking to the voters that are actually watching.

And there is no way -- I mean, he's in second place now in New Hampshire. So this is going to be all about Donald Trump.

It will be interesting, though, to watch the second tier of folks, whether it's Ramaswamy and some others, do their best to try to really suck up to Donald Trump because I think some of them are running for vice president or running for a cabinet position and not actually for the presidency.

And it's going to be -- I think, after this debate, there will be a lot of clarity on who really wants to be president and who just wants a position in the cabinet.

SCIUTTO: Well, one final question. Donald Trump has certainly proven, at least with GOP voters, to be Teflon on a whole range of issues, going from "Access Hollywood" right up to his fourth indictment last night.

[13:40:07]

As a politician, is this Trump specific, in your view, or has he fundamentally changed the survivability of, well, a whole host of personal, professional, political crimes and alleged crimes?

KINZINGER: Look, I think he has moved the window a little bit so that more people can get away with more things. There's no doubt about it. I mean, and that's a sad thing in our government.

I think he is uniquely positioned to get away with almost everything in certain people's minds. I'm not sure if it's an attitude issue, if it's just how long that's been going on.

But he can't run away from justice. And I think that's the key. He's going to be loud about it and say it's not justice. It is justice.

Look at Eric Herschmann's comment to John Eastman shortly after January 6th or leading up to January 6th. He said, hey, John, my recommendation to you is to get a good blanking lawyer because you're going to need it.

They knew he was violating the law far before we even knew it on the January 6th committee. Those are hardcore Republicans saying that.

SCIUTTO: Adam Kinzinger, thanks so much, as always.

KINZINGER: You bet.

SCIUTTO: Jessica?

DEAN: What do former President Trump and Cardi B. have in common? We're going to tell you about that next.

And the former NFL player, who inspired the hit film "The Blind Side," says a key part of the movie was based on a lie and he was bilked out of millions of dollars. What he says is the true story. That's ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:45:59]

DEAN: He's known by the hashtag "billion-dollar lawyer," and now he's one of the attorneys who will be representing the former president in this Georgia case.

Drew Findling is a high-profile attorney best known for representing rappers including Cardi B. And notably, he's been very outspoken about his liberal political views and his distaste for Donald Trump in the past.

For more on Trump's legal team in Georgia, let's bring in Jessica Schneider.

Jessica, this is interesting. What more can you tell us about this attorney?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he has decades of experience, Jessica. He's been, in Georgia, he's been a criminal defense attorney.

And Drew Findling has really run the gamut of who he's represented. He's represented Cardi B. for a felony assault charge that she was charged with, brought it down to a misdemeanor.

He's also represented people in high-profile murder trials, also in political corruption scandals.

And one thing he's always said is that everyone deserves a fair defense. That, despite the fact he's now on the former president's legal team.

However, he has been very critical of former President Trump in numerous instances all over Twitter. I mean, it was back in 2017 when Trump had fired the U.S. attorney in Manhattan, Preet Bharara, when Drew Findling wrote this.

He said, "The firing was a sign of fear he would aggressively investigate the stench hovering over this president of the United States, or POTUS."

He also tweeted about Trump in 2017 after Trump tweeted something about LeBron James. Drew Findling said this. "The racist architect of fraudulent Trump University criticizing LeBron. POTUS pathetic once again."

So, Jessica, he has really criticized the former president.

But at the same time, when he was named to be one of Trump's attorneys down in Georgia, he talked to "The New York Times" in 2022 and he said that, "I represent everybody."

And he put it this way. He said, "We have our personal lives and we have our personal politics and I don't apologize for my personal politics."

So he will be a staunch defender of the former president once we get to all of the hearings and legal wranglings and eventual trial in Georgia.

He released this part of the statement from the entire legal team last night, saying, "The events that have unfolded today have been shocking and absurd."

He continued to say, "We look forward to a detailed review of this indictment, which is undoubtably just as flawed and unconstitutional as this entire process has been."

So he will be a staunch defender of the former president.

DEAN: There's so much more to come in all of this. We're just really at the beginning.

Jessica Schneider, for us, thanks so much.

Jim?

SCIUTTO: Blindsided. The former NFL player, whose life story turned into that hit movie "The Blind Side," says a key part of the whole story was a lie. We'll have more on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:53:24]

SCIUTTO: It was one of the biggest movies of 2009. You may remember it, "The Blind Side." The story of an impoverished black teenager in Tennessee taken in by a wealthy white family who then helped nurture his talent for football.

Now the former NFL star, Michael Oher, the very subject of that film, says, in fact, much of it was a lie.

CNN correspondent, Brynn Gingras, is following the story.

It's shocking news really because that was a heartwarming story. I'm sure many folks watching right now remember it well. He says a big part of this was lies. What exactly? And what details do we know?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, it changes all those feelings you had when you watched that movie. You might remember a scene from the movie when you saw Michael Oher sitting at the family table signing adoption papers.

Well, he's saying he didn't go down that road of getting adopted by the Tuohy family. In fact, he says he was tricked by that family and signed paperwork for a conservatorship.

And in the legal documents he filed in Tennessee, it says this, "It means that they had total control over Michael Oher's ability to negotiate for or enter any contract, despite the fact he was over 18 years of age and had no diagnosed physical or psychological disabilities."

Of course, the word "conservatorship" we are very much aware now because of everything we've seen about Britney Spears.

But essentially, Oher is saying he never became part of the family and yet this family is profiting from his name.

Now, he didn't realize this until most recently, actually, in February of this year when he's already 37 years old, that this was, in fact, a conservatorship.

[13:54:58]

And also, he learned that he has also handed over his name, image and likeness. And so he's saying, even more so, he has lost any chance to profit from, again, his story.

Now, the Tuohy family has responded to a local newspaper in Tennessee saying this. Sean Tuohy says this, "It's upsetting to think we would make money off of any of our children but we're going to love Michael at 37 just like we loved him at 16."

Now, their son, if you remember from the family, who's now older, S.J., he was on "Barstool Sports" and did comment about this saying that he wasn't surprised by the move from Michael Oher.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN TUOHY JR, SON OF SEAN & LEIGH ANNE TUOHY: I knew it was coming. It was a matter of time. I went back to my texts to look at -- I was curious today, randomly to go back and look at our family group texts and see what things have been said.

There were things back in 2020, 2021 that were like, if you guys give me this much, then I won't go public with things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: S.J., Sean Jr, is not named in this lawsuit.

It's still very unclear what went wrong between the two sides to come to this being so public. Of course, this will come out, I'm sure, in the court filings.

Now the Tuohys are going to respond and need to account for all the money and where it went.

SCIUTTO: Did they answer the specific question whether it was an adoption or a conservatorship? Or have they not addressed that in their response?

GINGRAS: They haven't addressed that. To be fair, CNN's reached out to them. They haven't even responded to us. This was from a local newspaper. But, yes, they are not addressing specifically exactly the terms of

what this guardianship, what it was.

SCIUTTO: Notable.

Brynn Gingras, thanks so much.

Jessica?

DEAN: We are following all the latest on former President Donald Trump's fourth indictment. Be sure to stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Plus, President Biden is expected to speak just a few minutes from now as he faces some criticism in the days after the Maui wildfires.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)