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Trump, 18 Others Indicted In Election Subversion Case; President Biden Addresses Maui Wildfires Crisis; Trump Lashes Out On Social Media After Indictment. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 15, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are expecting to hear from President Joe Biden in just a few moments in Milwaukee. But first, Donald Trump's fourth indictment arrived last night. And it's the case many in his orbit have been the most worried about in no small part because several members of his team are also charged.

The former president now ensnared in what's known as a RICO case in Georgia alongside some of his closest advisors like Mark Meadows and Rudy Giuliani over efforts to overturn Joe Biden's 2020 win in Georgia. The 98-page indictment includes conspiracy and racketeering charges. Trump and the 18 other defendants have 10 days to surrender to Georgia authorities. And the DA wants the trial to start within six months and she wants to try all 19 of them in one go.

CNN's Sara Murray is outside the courthouse in Atlanta. Sara, this is a RICO case. This is something that's usually against the mob -- against gangs. Tell us more.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has made it very clear that she likes this RICO statute because she thinks it allows her to tell a more complete story when she brings her case. And I think we saw that again in this 98- page indictment that brings charges against not only Donald Trump but also 18 other co-defendants.

And she's used this statute in unorthodox ways in the past. She brought a case against Atlanta public school teachers and other educators. Again, not what you would normally consider the RICO statute for as you said, it's often used to prosecute gang members. But again, in this case, she used it to lay out a sort of narrative about not just the efforts by Donald Trump to try to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia, but efforts by many of his allies in what she describes as this criminal conspiracy.

People including Rudy Giuliani, including Mark Meadows, and including a number of local officials here in Georgia like David Shafer, the chairman of the Republican Party here. So, that's how she's presenting this case going ahead. And again, there's going to be a number of more challenges to this. When you have 19 defendants, that also means you have a lot of legal teams looking to punch holes in the case the district attorney is trying to make so we're going to see how that plays out, Jessica.

DEAN: And, Sara, what happens do we know yet when Trump ultimately turns himself in down in Georgia? How might that play out?

MURRAY: Yes. So, it's going to be probably different for Donald Trump than it is for other defendants because he is the former president of the United States. We've heard from the local sheriff here previously who says he wants to keep this process as similar as it is for other defendants where you would get a mug shot or you would get fingerprinted. Normally, defendants here turn themselves into the Fulton County Jail.

But again, now that we are in this position where Donald Trump has officially been indicted, the sheriff's office is going to have to start negotiating with the Secret Service as well as with Trump's attorneys about the logistics of how this is going to play out. So, it could look different for Trump than it does for typical defendants. And when Donald Trump has been charged federally, normally we see him walk into the courthouse. He gets processed there and he immediately shows up in court. Here, it could still take a little while for him to make that initial court appearance.

DEAN: All right. Sara Murray, for us in Atlanta, thanks so much for that update. Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: As we mentioned, the sweeping Georgia indictment against former President Donald Trump names 18 other defendants and it includes some high-profile names who until now have evaded criminal liability.

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Let's begin with one of them. That's the president's former personal attorney, former New York City Mayor as well. Also, Mark Meadows, who was of course Trump's former chief of staff. We should note Giuliani made his name -- up standby there, we're going to go to the president, President Biden now who's commenting on the disaster in Maui. Have a listen.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Devastating wildfires, some of which are still burning in Hawaii that claim the lives of 99 people so far. And they haven't cleaned things up yet. The deadliest wildfire in more than 100 years. The whole city was destroyed. Generations of native Hawaiian history turned into ruin.

I've spoken to Governor Josh Green multiple times and reassured him the State will have everything it needs from the federal government. I immediately approved the governor's request for an expedited major disaster declaration. That's a fancy word for saying whatever you need, you're going to get. And that'll get aid into the hands of people who desperately need it, who have lost their loved ones, who've lost their homes, and their livelihoods have been damaged and destroyed. And think about this. All that area, they got to plow up. They can't do it now because they don't know how many bodies are in there. They don't know what's left. Imagine being a mom or dad, wondering where your child is. Imagine being a husband or wife or mother or father. It's really tough stuff.

Almost 500 federal personnel have been deployed to Maui to help communities and survivors get back on their feet. FEMA, search and rescue teams are sifting through the ashes in that five-mile area that you've seen on television that has been burned. It's painstaking work. That takes time. And it's nerve-racking. Most of the debris can't be removed until it's done.

My wife Jill and I are going to travel to Hawaii as soon as we can. That's why I've been talking to the governor about it. I don't want to get in the way. I've been to too many disaster areas but I want to go make sure we got everything they need.

I want to be sure we don't disrupt the ongoing recovery efforts. FEMA Administrator Criswell, who's the best we've ever had, I think, was on the ground this weekend. I just talked to her. She's back in the States.

I have directed her to streamline the process as quickly as possible to help register survivors for meeting federal assistance without delay. To date, FEMA has approved 5000 -- 50,000 meals, 75 liters -- 76,000 liters of water, 500 beds, 10,000 blankets, and as well as other shelter supplies for survivors displaced from their homes. FEMA also authorized one-time payments of $700 per household to folks who've been displaced so they can do the immediate things of just taking care of medications and prescriptions that they so badly need.

We're working with the state to make sure survivors who have lost their homes have a place to call home until we can rebuild. We're also surging federal personnel to the state to help the brave firefighters and first responders, many of whom lost their own homes, their properties while they were out busting their necks to save other people. How many of -- have been so impacted themselves but they're still working around the clock to put the fires out, evacuate survivors to safety, and find the missing?

I've ordered all available federal assets on the island to assist local crews including the U.S. Coast Guard, the Navy Third Fleet, and the U.S. Army. In the immediate aftermath, the Coast Guard and Navy supported maritime search and rescue operations. The army helicopters help fire suppression and efforts on the Big Island because there's still some burning on the Big Island, not the one is that -- not the one where you see on television all the time.

FEMA deployed more than 140 urban search and rescue personnel as well. And there are so many organizations to thank like the American Red Cross helping survivors missing loved ones. Cell phone providers making sure first responders can make and respond to emergency calls. Commercial airlines had evacuated tens of thousands of people from the island. The list goes on. And the Small Business Administration has dozens of staff on the island and has begun making low-interest federal disaster loans available to Hawaii businesses, homeowners, and renters. And nonprofits to help them begin to rebuild. Just to get by for the immediate near term.

We're going to coordinate -- we continue to coordinate relentlessly with the people on the ground and make sure that critical work continues. In the meantime, you always hear this phrase and I've done so many disasters in my career. It's almost hollow.

Our prayers -- our thoughts and prayers were to the people of Hawaii. But not just our prayers, every asset -- every asset they need will be there for them. And we be -- we'll be there in Maui as long as it takes. As long as it takes. And I mean that sincerely. We're going to have more to report on this.

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But today, I come to Milwaukee to talk about what we're doing to bring manufacturing back home. It's about our progress in building an economy from the middle out and the bottom up, not the top down. You know, when we -- that trickle-down economics -- (INAUDIBLE)

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SCIUTTO: We've been listening to President Biden in Milwaukee, where he's just commented on the ongoing crisis on Maui. He says he is sending not just our prayers, but every asset to help the people there. Noting that the death toll now stands at 99.

But he acknowledged, and I'm quoting him here. "We don't know how many bodies because the search of the burned area is just beginning." He also said in explaining his failure to visit Maui today he says he does not want to get in the way of recovery efforts. We'll continue to follow the tragedy in Maui, as well as the administration's response.

Meanwhile, we're also of course covering news from Georgia last night, former President Trump in total now facing some 91 charges across four criminal cases, including Georgia's two cases. Federal, brought by Special Counsel Jack Smith. Two state cases. One in New York. The latest in Fulton County, Georgia.

Can be hard to keep it all straight. That's before we even get into the issue of coordinating the upcoming court appearances and trial dates. Case in point, while Trump and his allies were focused on responding to the Georgia charges today, one of his co-defendants in the separate classified documents case was arraigned in Florida.

CNN's Zachary Cohen has been covering this from outside the courthouse in Fulton County. Zach, make sense of us for -- of the latest -- for us, the latest charges coming out of that courthouse there behind you.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. Jim, a busy legal calendar stacking up here for the former president. We know that the DA, Fani Willis in Georgia in Fulton County here has given the former president 10 days to voluntarily surrender. She also issued what is effectively an arrest warrant if he does not choose to do so.

We do expect Trump to in-person turn -- surrender to authorities here in Georgia. The logistics and the details of that are still being worked out. But you got to keep in mind as well that there are 18 other co-defendants that were named in this indictment, who will also have to turn themselves into authorities here in Fulton County. So you know, if we're going to really see how that plays out in terms of -- you know because Fani Willis herself has said that she expects and wants to try all 19 individuals, including Trump together.

And it really does sort of underscore what the message of this indictment was. The sprawling alleged conspiracy case that Fani Willis laid out in these charging documents with everything from organizing fake electors to pressuring state officials to breaching voting machines in Coffee County. It does paint this narrative of a really broad -- a broad conspiracy case that she now is going to try to charge and charge in the near term.

SCIUTTO: Yes. She did not comment when asked on whether she had spoken to the special counsel to coordinate given there going to be presumably some competing court appearances, and trial dates going forward. Would that be expected in these circumstances?

COHEN: But, Jim, I think we're kind of in uncharted waters overall here right now with a former president who's now been indicted four separate times and is facing you know potential court challenges going forward. A court calendar going forward with four separate cases, but you know, a federal court -- a federal case and a state case like this, that do seem to overlap at times. They're all going to have to work out the logistics.

It was interesting that Fani Willis previously was asked about any contact she had with Jack Smith's team, she said she didn't affect -- we didn't even know who Jackson was. So, we'll see how that plays out going forward and if that does change.

SCIUTTO: Of course, all taking place in the midst of the presidential race as well. Zach Cohen, in Atlanta. Jessica.

DEAN: And joining me now to discuss this further is Nick Akerman. He was a special -- assistant special Watergate prosecutor and Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. Nick, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on with us. We know that Trump and his allies are being used --

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Thank you.

DEAN: -- facing these RICO charges are being used against them. She's used -- the DA down there has used that in the past to go after gangs, go after even schoolteachers in Atlantic public schools for -- Atlanta public schools for inflating students' test scores. Help us understand what the benefit if you're the DA is to using RICO here.

AKERMAN: Well, the benefit in this particular case is being able to put together all of these schemes to defraud which consists of multiple individual crimes and making it one crime. That carries with it a sentence of up to 20 years in prison, a minimum of five years to complete the sentence, a sentence of five years, the minimum could be probation, as well as prison. And there's no pardon here other than after five years after the conviction that, at that point, you can go before the Georgia Pardon and Parole Board and seek a pardon if you so choose.

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So, what it really does is it puts together all of these different crimes as one single crime that carries a very severe punishment. And it also puts it all together for the jury. May, as Fani Willis has said, this really explains to the jury the whole story. And this is the whole story that's put together. Basically, seven different criminal schemes, all of which simply boiled down to really three things.

One, a lot of lying. Lying about the concept that there was fraud in the election in 2020. Two, lying to upstanding public officials like Governor Kemp to try to get them to basically go against their oath of office that requires them to uphold the Constitution and the laws of the state of Georgia. And three, it's stealing. Trying to steal data from Coffee County to get the voting data to try and prove non- existent voter fraud. So, when you really come down to it, this entire case boils down to lying and stealing.

DEAN: Yes. And it has all of those layers in it and all of those co- defendants. Is it harder to prove these types of cases because they are so sprawling, or not?

AKERMAN: No. In some ways, it's actually easier. Because in a way, you have them all together. It shows the interaction between and among the different schemes. It makes the jury understand the real criminality here.

I've used this particular statute. I was one of the first -- I've been -- I was the first one to use it. And the first one to use it against a mafia boss. And I had five, seven different crimes that if you took any one of them, I could have never convicted this individual. But when you put them together under a RICO statute, they all interacted with each other. And cases that would have never been brought because they couldn't have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt were easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt with a RICO count.

DEAN: Right. Because you're really putting -- it sounds like what you're saying is you're putting all those pieces together for the jury to let them see the full story there.

AKERMAN: That's right.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Nick Akerman, thank you so much. Thanks for your analysis. We appreciate it. Great to see you. Jim.

AKERMAN: OK.

SCIUTTO: Coming up. Once again, he calls it a witch hunt and a politically inspired indictment, former President Trump attacking the new criminal charges against him in the state of Georgia. Despite it all, Trump remains the front-runner for the Republican nomination. So, how some of his fellow GOP rivals are reacting today?

Plus, a new poll shows the depth of the opioid crisis here in the U.S. The staggering number who say they or a family member has been addicted. These stories and more when CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

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[14:22:05]

DEAN: Donald Trump is lashing out in typical fashion after his historic fourth indictment. And he's promising a "major news conference next Monday" where he claims he will reveal what he calls irrefutable proof of fraud in Georgia. Keep in mind that after multiple investigations, the only fraud in Georgia came from Trump -- the Trump team. That's according to Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis.

This morning, Trump used his Truth social platform to attack the indictment as what he called a witch hunt. And to promise complete exoneration.

CNN's Alayna Treene is tracking how the former president is defending himself online. And, Alayna, at this point with a fourth indictment, there is a bit of a playbook here.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Oh, totally, Jessica. I mean, Donald Trump's team has now been through this three times before. And they do have a playbook that they've cultivated over the past several months. And his team tells me that they think it's working and so they're going to keep using it. And you've seen Donald Trump kind of reiterate the same rhetoric he has used when talking about the past indictments.

He has called this election interference. He has argued that he is a victim of political persecution. And he's directly going after the person filing the charges. And in this case, it's the District Attorney in Fulton County, Fani Willis. Of course, in past cases, it's been the District Attorney in Manhattan, Alvin Bragg, or Special Counsel Jack Smith.

Another thing I just want to point your attention to, Jessica, is the timing around some of these charges. We know that Fani Willis gave him a deadline as well as the other 18 co-defendants of next Friday, August 25 at noon to appear and surrender before the court. I'm told from my conversations with Donald Trump's team that they do expect he's going to end up going in person but the question is when. And there's not a lot of time.

On Monday, he's going to be giving a "major news conference." That's something he put out on Truth Social today. He'll be doing that in his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

And then next Wednesday is also the debate that's still up in the air whether or not Donald Trump is appearing. I'm -- all indications from his team I'm getting is that he probably won't appear. And so it's very -- the question of when this potential court appearance is going to happen next week is something we'll be keeping an eye on.

DEAN: Right. But the deadline is next Friday. And it is still surreal to have that debate and this GOP primary calendar just hovering around --

TREENE: Right.

DEAN: -- all of this. All right, Alayna Treene, thanks so much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: All right. Let's talk a little bit more with CNN national -- sorry, national political correspondent for Time Magazine, Molly Ball. CNN political commentator, Alice Stewart. A Republican strategist. Good to have you both here.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Great to be here.

SCIUTTO: So, there are some indictments of the current leading candidate for the GOP nomination. Alice Stewart, let me ask you this, and you speak to voters as well, as well as party officials and so on. With charges so far, he's maintained and even grown his lead, Trump. Are trials different? When he goes on trial, is it different from voters, do you think?

STEWART: That certainly remains to be seen. But what we're seeing here, as you mentioned, each passing indictment seems to be just further confirmation of what many people already think. What we're seeing is, confirmation bias is set in. It is in full effect.

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People who believe that Donald Trump has done nothing wrong and this is a weaponization of the DOJ and this is a two-tier justice system, they think this is just further evidence of that. Those who say they are fed up with Donald Trump and they don't want to continue along this path of denying the election and overthrowing the results of the election, they're ready to turn the page. The problem is the volume of these indictments is so great. It's almost become white noise.

A lot of people are saying enough already. This is just one big attempt to discredit Donald Trump. And many people are having a difficult time distinguishing between this indictment and previous ones.

And they're just whitewashing it all as this is just the DOJ and Democrats going after Donald Trump because they view him as a threat. Even though this one is much more different, this is much more serious. And I think as the facts come out, it's really going to have an impact on those that are undecided and those that are ready to turn the page.

SCIUTTO: The charges relate to two different things, right?

STEWART: Right. SCIUTTO: Handling classified documents, hush money payments, and attempts to overturn an election. I want to ask you, Molly, because you were just an Iowa, first voting state, talking with candidates, presumably about indictments and other legal challenges as well. Do they say anything to you in private that they don't say in public about this? Do they -- do they nudge you and say, listen, I know this is a big deal, but I can't say it there? Are they too smart to do that?

MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, TIME: They're not doing that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BALL: But I mean to Alice's point, you know, the Republican candidates who are supposed to be Donald Trump's competitors have done so much of the work of sort of inoculating him from every successive indictment in order to have the effect that she's describing where it is sort of white noise for the voters. And I sat down with Ron DeSantis for a story that will be on time.com later this week. And I pressed him on this.

Here's a guy who says he believes in law and order. He's a Harvard- educated lawyer. He talks about how important it is to hold officials like Anthony Fauci accountable.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BALL: So, I tried to get him to talk about, you know, the things that Trump is accused of. This indictment hadn't happened yet, but we had three others. And it was exactly the same thing that you've heard him and the others say, that exactly the types of talking points that Alice has been describing, the weaponization of the Justice Department.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BALL: The politicization of law enforcement. And you know he wanted to talk about why he would pardon Trump if he were elected president. He did not want to talk about what Trump is accused of actually doing.

SCIUTTO: Well, then, of course, you have the claim that this is election interference, even though it deals with an attempt to literally overturn the results of an election in 2020. I want to ask you, Alice Stewart. Is this by the -- by -- not all, but most of the GOP candidates because Pence and Christie, they have -- and Asa Hutchinson has said this is a real problem. And the president has been disqualified.

But in general, they've stuck with him. Is that just a GOP primary play? Because if one of them were to be Trump in the primary, presumably they'd have to pivot to win over independent voters whose polling shows take these charges seriously.

STEWART: They would absolutely have to pivot. And right now, as we have said, they are really relatively behind Donald Trump with regard to this is nothing but overreach by the Department of Justice. And not really pushing back.

We have three, as you mentioned, Asa Hutchinson, Chris Christie, Mike Pence, and Will Hurd saying, enough is enough. Some are encouraging him to get out of the race. What they do want more than anything is for this to stop being anything and everything that they're talking about on the campaign trail.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

STEWART: They are very anxious for next Wednesday, this debate for -- to have the opportunity to talk about the issues that people across this country are concerned about. They want to change the narrative. And the campaign conversation from Donald Trump's past grievances to Joe Biden's future problems with how he leads this country and that's where the conversation needs to go for these candidates and the election as a whole.

SCIUTTO: They've been saying that for a while. It hasn't happened.

STEWART: Right.

SCIUTTO: Just quickly. Do you believe Trump will not show up to the debate next Wednesday by some -- talking to folks?

BALL: I don't make predictions but his campaign is urging him not to do it. And they say it's his final decision, but they are urging him not to do it. They feel he's too far up in the polls. He shouldn't take the risk.

SCIUTTO: Molly Ball, Alice Stewart, thanks so much. Jessica.

DEAN: Still to come this afternoon. President Joe Biden is speaking now in the battleground state of Wisconsin as he tries to put his economic agenda at the front and center of his reelection campaign amid another Trump indictment.

And later, who is Fani Willis? A look at the Fulton County District Attorney in the spotlight after charging Donald Trump in the 2020 election subversion case in Georgia. Stay with us.

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