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Trump Faces Deadline to Surrender in Georgia; Hawaii Death Toll Rises. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 16, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:38]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: We have a new look now at the epicenter of the devastation in Maui and also now are learning that only a handful of the 106 confirmed dead have been identified.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Any day now, former President Donald Trump and his eight team co-defendants are expected to go to jail to be booked after being indicted in Georgia. They have nine days until that deadline. We're live outside with the very latest.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: For the first time, North Korean officials say they are holding U.S. Army Private Travis King. They claim he is seeking refuge because of racial discrimination, they say, in the U.S. military.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: Let's start with the new video coming out of Maui.

A camera crew traveled in with FEMA to get a first look at portions of the historic town of Lahaina that have been blocked off up until now, the once-vibrant paradise now the epicenter of devastation.

The death toll this morning is up to 106 people killed, but only about a third of the fire zone has been searched by recovery crews. The governor says, until now, most of the remains were found along the seaside road. And, today, they will be shifting their focus to begin searching homes.

On Monday, President Biden, we have now learned, will see this all -- all of this damage firsthand. He and the first lady will travel to Maui to see what's left behind and also speak with survivors who have clearly lost everything.

On the investigation into how this all started,there is still no official cause of these fires. There are a lot of questions, though, remaining about whether power lines could have played a role.

CNN has new video in that may show the moment a power line essentially explodes and, moments later, flames are seen. Take a look at this, but a note, this video was taken on another part of the islands separate from the fire that destroyed Lahaina. The video was captured at a bird sanctuary on Monday, August 7. After

a few seconds, you would see, a white flash is seen. You will see the white flash, and then we have paused it so you can see it a little more clearly very clear. In the following moments, the camera pans around.

Then, minutes later, you can see the flames in the distance. We have highlighted -- highlighted it there. The video was first reported by "The Washington Post."

Hawaiian Electric, Maui's main power company, released a statement to questions put in by "The Washington Post" saying this: "We know -- we know there is speculation about what started the fires and we, along with others, are working hard to figure out what happened."

CNN's Mike Valerio on the main road into Lahaina, he's joining us now.

Today, that road will be open to the general public, Mike. But, after seeing all these images, what is that going to mean for the public now?

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Kate, so let's just sort of lay out what is happening here. And you're right. People are seeing these images and saying the general public cannot enter that area.

And that is exactly right. So, the burn area, this historic town, the core of Lahaina, that is going to be sealed for the foreseeable future. But there is concern about, what about the rest of the region, West Maui? So this is the Honoapiilani Highway that is going to be reopening in the next hour-and-a-half.

And there is the sense that the general public needs to access the western side of the island to help bringing back -- to help bring back the economic vitality of the island. This road was only accessible to first responders for several days. So, this will make travel and commerce easier for everybody, not just supply convoys, not just residents of a specific set of addresses.

So there's reconnecting the island and then, Kate, there's also rehousing the island. And, to that point, we're seeing more and more people today especially -- this is a nexus point -- moving from shelters that are run by the Red Cross across the island into more and more hotel rooms.

This is a plan that's been put forward by Hawaii's governor, Josh Green. And this is essentially what is going to happen; 500 hotel rooms across the island of Maui are going need to be rented to house people from the epicenter of the disaster who have lost everything.

[11:05:06]

Four hundred and seventy-three housing listings that were just -- nothing was happening with them, they were vacant, they are being put into a specialized portal, so people who have lost all of their homes in the historic core -- those images that you're seeing -- they can rent those listings, no problem, and 1,000 Airbnb listings.

This is just a way to try to get people towards normalcy in whatever tiny steps they possibly can, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's very clear from this new video coming in how long, long, long the road to recovery and anything even resembling normal is going to be for all those folks.

Thank you, Mike -- John.

BERMAN: Look, it's hard to house people because so many structures are just plain gone.

We wanted to give you a sense of the before-and-after here. And then we have grabbed some Google images to help do this. This is the area around the Lahaina Shores Beach Resort. Pay very close attention to this neighborhood right here. You can see this is the before, but look at the after. Look at the after. That area is just gone.

And we have a side-by-side look at it right now. Again, this is that neighborhood before. Over here, you can see it's just completely gone. We have another view we can show you, and this is a view from the port side. You can see these buildings with the green roofs there. And here they are, so many of those buildings just completely gone.

Again, here they are in place, now gone. Here's the side-by-side. You can see the before and over here just the devastation, things just completely, completely flattened in that area right there -- Sara.

SIDNER: Those pictures and that before-and-after really tells the story well.

We are now over a week into the investigation into these fires. And while the focus is on recovering the remains of the unaccounted for, there are still a lot of questions bubbling up about the response in the moments after the blazes were sparked and the preparation before the fires ever started.

I'm joined now by the chair of the Maui County Council, Alice Lee.

Thank you so much for joining us at this really difficult time in your community.

I want to start with this. We have seen some of this video that "The Washington Post" put out showing a spark, it appears, from a power line and then fire not long after that in one part of Maui. What have you been hearing from the utility about the power lines and if they might have played a role in sparking these fires?

ALICE LEE, CHAIR, MAUI, HAWAII, COUNTY COUNCIL: We believe it's a little premature to delve into -- completely into the causes of the mass destruction and the fires, because we're still in search-and- recovery mode.

So, most of our resources are pointed in that direction. And, as was mentioned earlier, there are many, many more bodies to be recovered and identified. Of all the bodies that have been recovered so far, only two -- or actually five have been identified, two where names were released yesterday. Three should be released today.

So this is how painstakingly slow the search and recovery is going.

SIDNER: Ms. Lee, do you have information as to why it has been so difficult to try to identify the 106 people so far, that only five so far have been identified?

LEE: Well, the fire reduced everything to ashes. So we don't necessarily have full bodies to look at.

In fact, there is -- there is an operation to -- for identification. And we need DNA from families. So, this, in itself, is taking a lot of time.

And then those going through the wreckage and the rubble are also exposed to toxic particles and asbestos and other types of chemicals. Well, we have to be very careful not only for -- in our recovery efforts, but we have to take care of the responders as well.

SIDNER: I'm curious for you, and I -- just listening to that, how difficult it will be to get DNA samples, that families' homes are reduced to ash, as you said, bodies reduced to ash.

It is just a horrible scene there. And I am sorry that the community and you are going through this. I do want to ask you about the concerns about the warning sirens. We have heard a lot of different things. What are your constituents telling you? Did the sirens not go off? And were some of them broken?

Do you have any idea what happened with the sirens that were to warn people that this danger was coming?

LEE: I really can't answer that with any kind of authority.

It's -- people that have been spared accumulating on what could have happened. We will be having an investigation by the state attorney general into this matter, a full and complete investigation. So, at this point, it's a little early to try and assess that.

[11:10:19]

Ordinarily -- this is ordinarily -- the sirens wouldn't go off for a fire. They generally go off for a tsunami. When the -- when the alerts -- or not the alerts, but when the sirens go off for a tsunami, people are expected to head inland. And, certainly, this is not what we wanted them to do in this particular case.

SIDNER: That's interesting to know.

I want to ask you about the state of Hawaii, who put out their emergency plan and really sort of underestimated the deadly threat of wildfires, saying that threat was quite low. Will all of that change now, considering what happened in Maui, what happened in Lahaina, how quickly this all burned and how many people were killed? Does there need to be a real change in preparation and resources

towards wildfires?

LEE: Of course.

We all want to prevent this in the future. So there will be -- after we take care of the immediate needs of the people, we're going to have to spend an incredible amount of time figuring out what happened and how do we prevent it in the future, because the communication was actually probably the issue.

Communication was down. Cell phones were down. Power lines were down. We -- and that made it very difficult. Even to this day, some people do not have communication. They don't have television. They don't have Internet. So it's still hard to communicate, but it's getting better.

SIDNER: Yes, we heard at one point 911 was down. There were so many things that happened so quickly. I am so sorry that you are going through this in this community.

I'm so sorry that your community is going through all of this heartbreak. And I understand that the recovery efforts and the search is still continuing all these many days after the fire started.

Thank you so much, Councilmember Lee, for coming on CNN. Appreciate you.

LEE: Thank you.

SIDNER: John.

BERMAN: Donald Trump has to go to jail, or at least report to one. New details on how the Georgia case will proceed.

Mark Meadows wants to move his case to federal court. Now, this all turns on whether his actions were on behalf of America or on behalf of a political candidate.

The family at the heart of the film "The Blind Side" pushes back on allegations they lied to and took advantage of former NFL star Michael Oher.

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[11:17:30]

BOLDUAN: Any time over the next nine days, Donald Trump could arrive at, well, this jail, with this granulated video, but this is the entrance to the jail in Georgia to surrender.

Trump has not indicated exactly when he will show up. The 18 other people facing indictments alongside him in the state's 2020 election probe face this very same question. Rudy Giuliani, for his part, says he will turn himself in next week.

Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, he isn't talking about turning himself in. What he's focused on now, it seems, is trying to get his case moved out of Georgia and into federal court. Either way, it seems clear a lot could happen between now and August 25, which is the deadline to surrender for all of them.

CNN's Nick Valencia, he's outside the courthouse in Atlanta with much more on this.

Nick, what is exactly expected to happen when they do surrender?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, according to the Fulton County sheriff, he's not going to treat the former president or his 18 co-defendants different than anyone else who gets indicted in Fulton County.

And what that means is getting fingerprinted, mug shot, processed through Fulton County Jail, which is an infamous facility here in the city of Atlanta. We did reach out to the sheriff's office. They told me, so far, none of the defendants had turned themselves in. They put out a statement saying that the jail is open 24/7, so anyone can turn themselves in at any time.

Meanwhile, we're getting a taste of a potential defense strategy for the former president. His former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has filed a formal petition with his attorneys, arguing that he should get his case removed from state court and into federal court instead, those attorneys arguing that anyone who is accused or charged with actions that they allegedly took while they were working as a federal official should have their criminal proceedings heard before a federal court.

And here is what they're saying in part of that filing: "Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal, per se, arranging Oval Office meetings, contacting state officials on the president's behalf, visiting a state government building and setting up a phone call for the president. One would expect the chief of staff to the president of the United States to do these sorts of things."

Meadows says that he's going to file a formal longer complaint at a later date. But, meanwhile, this matter is in the hands of a U.S. district judge here in Georgia -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, Nick, thank you for being there -- John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and CNN senior political analyst John Avlon.

Friends, there is a Republican presidential debate scheduled one week from today, if I'm not mistaken.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: I'd like to talk about this with you, John, here, and S.E. over here.

(LAUGHTER)

[11:20:00] BERMAN: Disembodied S.E. Cupp over there.

And I want a role-play. I'm going to play the role of conventional wisdom. John, I'd like you to play John Avlon. S.E., I'd like you to play S.E. Cupp.

AVLON: Duly noted. And scene.

BERMAN: You admittedly have better roles.

OK, conventional wisdom, me, Donald Trump should not go to this first debate one week from today. He is the front-runner in this campaign. He has nothing to gain by showing up.

John Avlon.

AVLON: Oh, conventional wisdom, when won't you be wrong?

(LAUGHTER)

AVLON: Look, that is absolutely what political consultants would say. You're in the pole position. Don't debate. It can only bring you down.

I would argue that these times have nothing in relation with normal and Donald Trump actually should go and be the leader of his party, right? He's going to go back -- down to Georgia. He's going to dominate the cycle. And he's -- go there and answer your critics in person. Don't let them just punch up on a disembodied Donald Trump, you know, actually flex.

This is an argument Matt Lewis made in The Daily Beast earlier today, I think very persuasively. Since when has Donald Trump done whatever anybody tells him, particularly political consultants? And I think that it's incumbent upon the people on stage to actually have a clear contrast and take a shot and take a stand.

But this dancing around Donald Trump, if your name is not Chris Christie, is dumbing down the country.

BERMAN: We're going to talk about that in just a second.

S.E., first on the question of Donald Trump, when conventional wisdom, me, says he shouldn't go, S.E. Cupp says?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, John Avlon has great advice, but we should -- we should, I think, say at the outset this is so unprecedented.

The idea that we have a former president of the United States who is facing four indictments, 90-plus charges, 712 years in prison while he's running for president, that's one, and, two, and is facing off against opponents who refuse to make this a thing?

Like, conventional wisdom, John Berman, you're out the window. John Avlon's great advice, you're out the window. (LAUGHTER)

CUPP: S.E. Cupp, John Berman, John Avlon, Matt Lewis, name anyone you want, we don't know what is going to happen here or how this should go, because nothing makes sense and no one is acting normally.

But...

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: I will point out, S.E., you're literally in the window for us.

(LAUGHTER)

CUPP: I mean, I'm trying here.

But...

(LAUGHTER)

CUPP: But, no, no one can offer good advice, because none of these people are taking good advice. The

people running against Donald Trump don't act like they want to run for -- actually be president. Donald Trump doesn't take good advice, as we obviously have seen. So, listen, he could show up and, as John says, look like a leader, look like the tough guy that he is. He could stay home and not risk any bad moments or disadvantages.

It's really up to the other opponents, the other would-be candidates, to decide what they want to make of this debate.

BERMAN: All right, let me then play conventional wisdom. Please, don't criticize me. I'm playing a role here, S.E.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: So, don't, like, drag me down.

I am now conventional wisdom saying -- and this is current conventional wisdom.

CUPP: Yes.

AVLON: Yes. That could change.

BERMAN: If you are a Republican who wants to be the Republican nominee, part of the conventional wisdom now is you can't upset the Trump wing of the Republican Party, so you can't go on that stage, whether Trump is there or not, in mentioned the fact he's been indicted four times.

What do you say to conventional wisdom, S.E.?

CUPP: I mean, it's so ridiculous. The only way to win and become president is to beat the front-runner,

and they won't go after, like, the biggest elephant in the room, for the most part. It's absurd.

For people like Ron DeSantis, this is maybe his last chance to turn his campaign around. For other people, like Tim Scott and Nikki Haley, this might be the first time most Americans have seen them debate. So it's an important opportunity for them too.

Chris Christie, who has been swinging at Donald Trump over the course of this campaign, has an opportunity to knock him down a few pegs. But if all the candidates refuse to say to their audience, look, you like Donald Trump, I like Donald Trump, that's fine, but he's probably going to be in prison within the next year or two, let's elect someone else, if none of them will say that, this is a complete fraud of an election, and all of these candidates are running vanity projects.

BERMAN: What do you say to conventional wisdom and S.E. Cupp?

(LAUGHTER)

AVLON: Look, I agree with that S.E. that there's this cowardly denialism that is seeping into the Republican Party, with a few honorable exceptions.

Campaigns are about contrasts. They're about showing the confidence to actually lead. And that means confronting reality and making a reality-based argument for why he is a wounded elephant front-runner, which he is; 91 counts, that's not any sign of strength, however you want to spin it.

But the more they feed into his reality distortion field by tiptoeing around, by accepting his version of nonreality, for fear of offending, the more they abdicate any credible alternative to being a leader. Tell the truth. It's not hard. Don't overindex your consultants telling you about vectors of the Republican Party and how to tiptoe around that.

[11:25:15]

That is a first-class ticket to oblivion.

BERMAN: Lightning round conventional wisdom, if Donald Trump wins Iowa, conventional wisdom is, it's over.

AVLON: It's never over just after Iowa.

But I would flip it around instead and say, what happens in the first couple states, Iowa, New Hampshire, where Chris Christie has a base of support, or South Carolina, if Donald Trump shows vulnerability, if the field winnows, that could itself be a game-changer.

BERMAN: Conventional wisdom, S.E. Cupp, people don't need two dictionaries in this day and age.

(LAUGHTER) BERMAN: And over your left shoulder, we see two dictionaries there.

(LAUGHTER)

AVLON: But they do need Gil Hodges portraits.

(LAUGHTER)

CUPP: I'm a writer, John Berman. What -- isn't that enough?

BERMAN: OK. OK.

(LAUGHTER)

CUPP: Stop picking on me.

AVLON: I feel you.

BERMAN: All right, S.E. Cupp, thank you very much, well-read, well- defined, with two dictionaries there.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Thank you very much.

John Avlon, thanks to you as well.

AVLON: Always.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: You have S.E. Cupp and John Avlon. You have conventional wisdom.

I don't know where I fit into this relationship, guys. Can I be alternative facts?

(LAUGHTER)

AVLON: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: That was really interesting. OK, that was great.

Much more to come for us, including this: a step toward freedom for five Americans wrongfully detained in Iran and a call from the secretary of state. What Tony Blinken has told the families of those detained Americans. Two of their family members on that call join us next.

We will be back.

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