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Texas Woman Accused of Threatening to Kill Judge; Multiple Trials Looming for Trump; Search for Missing Continues in Hawaii; Hawaii Residents Document During Fires. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 17, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:39]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Developing this morning, threats to judge and jurors. New questions about the safety of the people working on the cases against Donald Trump.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The scope of destruction in Hawaii, heartbreaking. The death toll from the wildfires, still climbing. And more than 1,000 people are still unaccounted for. There are new questions as to exactly how this fire started. We're live on the ground in Maui.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Searching for front line fighters on Facebook. Wagner now turning to social media to recruit new soldiers for the war in Ukraine.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: So, developing right now, new, chilling threats against a judge and jurors involved in cases against Donald Trump. This is what we know.

Police say a Trump supporter in Texas is in custody after she allegedly threatened to kill the judge presiding over the 2020 federal election case if Trump does not get elected in 2024.

In Georgia, new concern for the grand jurors who just issued an indictment against Trump. Photographs, social media profiles, even some of their purported home addresses published on sites, including forums previously linked to violent extremist attacks. Experts tell us that some anonymous users are calling for violence against these grand jurors.

Now, this comes as Trump and his accused co-conspirators have eight days to surrender at a jail in Atlanta, which is where we find CNN's Nick Valencia right now.

And, Nick, these threats are of serious concern.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, safety and security continues to be an issue for those connected to this legal process with Trump's name attached to it. A Texas woman is now in custody after threatening to kill a judge who's overseeing Trump's federal election case. The judge, who is black, received the phone call in his judge's chambers on August 5th with the call allegedly saying, "you are in our sights, we want to kill you." The call also allegedly included some racist comments. It was on August 8th when special agents with the Department of Homeland Security caught up with the woman. She's now currently in pre-trial detention.

Meanwhile, here in Georgia, some far right users online are calling for violence against some of those Fulton County grand jurors. Overnight, posts from their social media profiles, photos, also even home addresses of some of the grand jurors reportedly be - to be connected to some of those grand jurors found their way online. CNN cannot independently verify those posts, and we're not naming the websites where they appeared. None of the grand jurors have spoken publicly so far about the process. And we should mention, as part of Georgia law, their names were made public as part of that indictment.

Meanwhile, outside here, in Fulton County, we're still waiting for those 19 defendants to show up, including the former president himself.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, an important distinction. Their names were made public, but not their photos, certainly not their addresses. And that is what could be circulating right now.

VALENCIA: That's right.

BERMAN: Nick Valencia, at the jail, keep us posted. Really appreciate it.

With us now is former deputy director of the FBI, and current CNN senior law enforcement analyst, Andrew McCabe.

Andy, you distinguish between the threats to the federal judge in this case, this Texas woman threatening to kill her, and the threats to the grand jurors in Georgia. Why?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That's right, John. So, as awful as this and any threat may be, the sad fact is that federal judges and people in law enforcement are used to receiving aggressive, threatening communications from people. Again, that doesn't make it right, but it is part of the important job that they do.

They are also -- they also have access to the absolute best resources to protect them from this sort of activity. So, federal judges receive protection routinely and certainly in instances where they're actually receiving threats, they have deep and consistent relationships with law enforcement.

The folks I'm really worried about are those grand jurors. These are every day, ordinary citizens who stepped up to meet their civic duty by serving on a grand jury, which is a huge time commitment and an important thing to do and it exacts a toll on your lives and they should not be subjected to this sort of threatening activity.

[09:05:09]

I understand it's the law in Georgia that their names are released, but this is a very different environment that we're talking about now that they've been involved in a criminal prosecution targeting a former president.

BERMAN: What does this portend for the next year when there could be four trials against Donald Trump and the jurors who will sit in those trials?

MCCABE: You know, John, it's easy to see how this elevation of activity, legal activity, criminal prosecutions involving the former president will increase and kind of turn up the pressure on the former president's most extreme supporters.

We're not talking about everyone who voted for Trump in the last election, but we also know that there are - there's a vital and persistent strain of extremists who support the former president and who listen to his messages, listen to his direction, take it as some sort of signal to take action. We have seen this before. Cesar Sayoc put 16 IEDs in the mail in his support of President Trump. We saw Ricky Shiffer take it upon himself to attack an FBI office with a nail gun that ultimately led to his death.

So, as these trials progress, there's more media coverage of them. The president's fate gets closer to being determined in any one of these cases. You can understand how the most extreme supporters will see this, could see this, as a moment to take action in his support. And that is when we see acts of violence.

BERMAN: Andy, what do the people you're -- who you call the most extreme supporters, some of the people who may be associated with these websites, what do they see and hear when Donald Trump posts on his social media platform things about the judge or says things out loud to that effect?

MCCABE: So, that's a great question, John, because it puts attention on these menacing but vague comments that the former president has a habit of putting out on his social media or saying in public.

We -- this is not theoretical. We know from the testimony we've heard from many of the January 6th defendants, we know from the things that people who have been arrested for engaging in this activity have said, they hear statements like that and they think of them as a signal to them to start taking action. This is similar to the comment in the presidential debates - presidential debate, to the extremists the president said, stand back and stand by.

We know from watching social media traffic that many of his most extreme supporters saw that as a message to -- that he was calling their attention, that he was telling them to stand by to take action. We know that his -- the infamous tweet about the -- in advance of the January 6th riots was the thing that motivated so many of those January 6th defendants to come to D.C. Come to D.C., it'll be wild, the president stated to that -- words to that effect.

So, this happens before. They hear his - they have listened very closely to his comments and they take it as a message or a signal to take action. And that's when we see folks putting, you know, taking violence into their own hands.

BERMAN: If you come after me, I will come after you, just one of the posts that he made recently.

Andy McCabe, great to see you. Thank you for helping us understand what's going on today.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, the bottom line, it should not be dangerous to do your civic duty.

All right, we are less than a week away from the first 2024 Republican presidential debate, just as the clear frontrunner, Donald Trump, may or may not appear on that debate stage. But he's caught up in a myriad of legal issues, as you know.

Former President Donald Trump is now facing 91 charges across four separate criminal cases, along with two civil trials. All of it making for a jam packed calendar of events.

On October 2nd, the New York attorney general's fraud case against Trump, and the Trump Organization, is set to go to trial. Three months later, on January 2nd, the DOJ is looking to try its 2020 election subversion case against Donald Trump.

Then, on January 15th, a judge wants to start the trial in the second defamation case brought by columnist E. Jean Carroll. District Attorney Fani Willis has asked a judge to set a trial date for March 4th in Georgia's case against Donald Trump. March 25th is the scheduled start of the criminal trial here in New York. It's over Trump's 2016 hush money scheme, according to prosecutors. And in May, either the 20th or 27th, Trump's federal criminal trial over the Mar- a-Lago documents is set to begin.

[09:10:01]

We should note that all of these dates could, and will likely, change.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: That's what we have now. But stand by to stand by because it could change. Exactly, Sara.

Joining us right now is CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen, the former counsel for the House Democrats in Donald Trump's first impeachment trial.

It's good to see you, Norm. So, Sara lays out what the calendar could look like today, or does look like today, at least in the - in this moment. If a calendar is stacking up like that with the court dates like that, what does it mean?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Kate, thanks for having me back.

It means that we're not going to get all of these proceedings in that very tight window. I do think there is time to try two, at least, of the major cases. Of those, the first of the criminal ones is Jack Smith's, which is requested for January. My view is that Judge Chutkan, in D.C., because of the preeminent importance and the federal statute, Kate, the speedy trial act, says the public interest must be taken into account, that case will be set.

Alvin Bragg has already said that in the interest of justice he's willing to flex his calendar. That might mean he would make room for the Jack Smith case. It might mean he would make room for the Fani Willis case.

We have to be realistic about that Georgia case. And I think it is good to have a case that is as large as the alleged conspiracy itself, but with 19 defendants will we really be able to get that to trial by March? We'll see.

BOLDUAN: Well, that's what I want to ask you about. Also just - I'm just being told in my ear that CNN has learned that Donald Trump is expected to surrender in the Georgia case - to surrender to fact those charges next week. The deadline is the end of next week to surrender, but that gives some window into he's not likely to be surrendering to authorities today or tomorrow.

But on the Georgia indictment, it has been described as a tight timeline when you're talking about 19 defendants and you're talking about a racketeering case. What is your view on that? I mean do you think the Georgia trial, there's a possibility it could start on the March 4th date as requested?

EISEN: There is a possibility. The realistic assessment, though, is you have three prior cases that have been stacked up on the criminal side alone, put aside the two major civil cases, the civil fraud case in New York set for this year, and the second defamation trial of E. Jean Carroll set for early next year. You already have three important criminal cases, the Mar-a-Lago case, the Alvin Bragg, 2016 election interference case where the allegation is that the former president falsified documents to cover up hush money payments to avoid a 2016 election scandal and, of course, the Jack Smith federal case.

So, my guess is that that Georgia case, it's good for the DA to be aggressive. If it were the only case, it probably could go in March. But my guess is that we'll see some slippage there.

The place where I don't think we'll see a lot of slippage is the federal January 6th case. It's lean and mean. It names Trump only. Smith designed it to go fast. And I think it is going to go fast. And that's going to set the tone for the rest. Fani Willis probably wants that case to go first and fast because it sets the tone for her more sweeping 19 defendant case.

BOLDUAN: That's interesting. Let's talk - a question about Georgia. So, as Trump is preparing to surrender and be arrested in Georgia, he also has promised a press conference. And the way he's promised it is he's promising to lay out evidence that will exonerating him of the claims being made against him in this Georgia indictment, to show that fraud occurred in Georgia and an election. How much of a problem would Trump create for himself, could Trump create for himself with this press conference?

EISEN: A substantial problem. He's already been charged in the Fani Willis case for post-January 6, 2021, activity, including letters where he pressed Georgia officials later in 2021 with these false -- based on these false election claims. It could get him in trouble with additional charges, a super ceding indictment, it could violate the conditions of his release, of other protective orders then that could be put in.

And these claims of fraud have been definitively rejected by court after court and government official after government official, most recently Georgia GOP Governor Brian Kemp said there's nothing to them.

[09:15:04]

So, Trump is skating on thin ice. But that often seems to be where he finds himself.

BOLDUAN: Norm Eisen, thanks for coming in.

Sara.

SIDNER: Ahead, desperation in Maui. More than 100 people now confirmed dead, and the death toll is rising, and more than 1,000 people are still missing. We're going to take a look at the painstaking search for victims there.

Also, Rudy Giuliani down at Mar-a-Lago and personally pleading with Donald Trump for help paying his massive legal bills because he seems to have run out of money. Wait until you hear what went down.

And an appeals court rules the abortion pill, Mifepristone, will remain available for now, but with some limits. The ruling setting the stage for another possible Supreme Court showdown.

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[09:20:01]

BOLDUAN: This morning more than 1,000 people are still unaccounted for in Hawaii. It's a little over a week since the wildfires destroyed parts of Maui. The confirmed death toll has now climbed to 111. And the process of identifying the dead has proven a slow, delicate, and very tough task. Just nine people have been identified by authorities as of this morning. And putting names to other victims could take months. The names of just five of the nine identified have been publicly

released. They range in age from 71 to 90 years old. And we're learning just a little bit about their lives today.

Buddy Jantoc, he's among them. He was a musician who sang, he played drums and guitar and even toured with the band Santana.

Melva Benjamin is another one of the victims who has been identified. She was a beloved grandmother.

The other names released so far, Robert Dyckman, Virginia Dofa, and Alfredo Galinato.

Today, crews continue to comb through the rubble and the ash to try to find more people. So far they have only searched about 38 percent of the fire zone. So far to go.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino, she's on the ground in Maui. She's joining us now.

Gloria, you were - you've been on the ground. What is expected to happen today?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, this devastating process that you were just describing is going to continue. Now, we are standing at a checkpoint into Lahaina right now. The road behind me is closed. This is as far as we can go right now. But just in a few hours the road will open back up allowing residents, workers and volunteers back into Lahaina.

Now, the impact zone, ground zero of this devastating fire remains closed off. And that's because that critical mission to find human remains is underway there.

Now, it is painstaking, difficult work. There are more than 40 cadaver dogs that are on the mission to find any remains that can be salvaged. And the police chief yesterday told us it is one of the worst scenes he has ever seen. It is catastrophic.

The governor has compared it to searching through a war zone or the remains at Ground Zero after 911. As you said, only 38 percent of the area has been covered. So, they are working nonstop to finish that process.

In the meantime, the people of Lahaina here are asking for answers. They want to know why the alarm system was not deployed. And officials have been defensive about that.

I want you to listen to Maui's emergency management administrator defending his decision to not sound the alarm system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret not sounding the sirens?

HERMAN ANDAYA: I -- I do not. Even if we sounded the sirens it would not have saved those people on

the mountainside.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): I know that the attorney general is reviewing the pre, during, and post of this disaster. So that is ongoing. I do believe that the Maui person was premature in his assessment of the situation saying that he does not regret not sounding the alarm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: So, the protocol would have been that people might have moved up mountainside. And that means that, in this case, it would have sent people right into where the fires had starting to burn.

Now, the governor has ordered a review of every decision to try and figure out what went wrong here. And in the meantime aid is starting to slowly arrive here in the area. President Joe Biden and the first lady, Jill Biden, will visit on Monday, get a first-hand look at the devastation for themselves and try to bring some comfort to the people of Lahaina.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Gloria, thank you for being there.

Sara.

SIDNER: Well, there are more questions this morning about whether downed power lines were the cause of the deadliest U.S. wildfire in 100 years there in Maui. "The Wall Street Journal" now reporting that Hawaii's main electric company waited to act despite knowing the threat the island faced because of wildfires.

In 2019, Hawaiian Electric said it would conduct drone surveys to identify areas most vulnerable during wildfires. And according to "The Journal" it wasn't until 2022 that it sought state approval to raise rates to pay for safety improvements. But that has not yet been approved. CNN has reached out to Hawaii Electric for comment. The power utility is now facing a lawsuit, saying the power lines were in part to blame for the spread of the fires.

Now, we need to make clear, so far there is no official cause of these fires.

Ashley Nagaoka from our affiliate, Hawaiian News, has more on the story.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Break (ph) and power line just went down.

[09:25:01]

ASHLEY NAGAOKA, ANCHOR, HAWAII NEWS NOW: On Lahaina Luna Road Tuesday morning - UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see them right there. That's the power line that started it.

NAGAOKA: Shane Trau (ph) documented what could have been the downed lines that sparked the fatal Lahaina fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, look at that. Oh!

NAGAOKA: A little bit later, Eddie Garcia watched the impact of 80 mile an hour winds on wooden poles.

EDDIE GARCIA, MAUI FARMER: I was on the phone on redial, redial, redial, to the electric company trying to get them to turn the electricity off, telling them we thought they were going to break.

NAGAOKA: The videos will be important evidence in multiple lawsuits against HECO and Maui County.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. Crazy.

RICHARD WILSON, HONOLULU ATTORNEY: But it seems as the days goes on it looks more and more that this was started by downed transformers or downed power lines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, head's up, the line is live there on the ground right there.

NAGAOKA: Despite studies after previous fires that said HECO should have set up a system to be able to depower threats in lines, HECO did not, saying cutting off power could impact water systems in a fire and inconvenience customers who need power for necessities, such as medical devices.

WILSON: The common sense approach would have been, deenergize the lines, inform people as a precaution. Because if it starts, it's going to be a firestorm.

NAGAOKA: HECO has not commented on the impact of the lawsuit, but since they were filed Monday, the stock in parent company Hawaiian Electric Industries fell nearly 60 percent, and its credit rating plummeted.

In California, a similar financial cascade under similar facts led that electric company into bankruptcy reorganization.

WILSON: They did a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding. And there was other moneys that were involved in other state and federal involvement also. So, I could foresee something like that.

NAGAOKA: Ashley Nagaoka, Hawaii News Now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: We have a CNN exclusive. A phone call between Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Paul Whalen, a man wrongfully detained in Russia. We're getting new details about what they said. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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