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Violent Threats Growing Against Some Involved in Trump Cases; TX Woman Accused of Threatening to Kill Federal Trump Judge; CNN: Giuliani Pleaded With Trump to Help Pay Legal Bills; Poll: Trump Holds on to Broad Lead With 53% Support; DeSantis: Trump Owes It to Voters to Debate; 9 Victims Have Been Identified, 5 Publicly Named; Hawaii Governor: "Over 1,000 Missing Following Fires"; Pres. Biden, First Lady to Visit Hawaii on Monday; Appeals Court Says Abortion Pill Mifepristone Should Remain on Market but Rules in Favor of Limiting Access. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 17, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:36]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We have chilling new details this morning about threats being made against the grand jurors who just issued an indictment against Donald Trump in Georgia, and the woman arrested after police say she threatened to kill the judge in the DC case.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New scrutiny on the hours before the deadly Maui wildfires. Why didn't the siren sound in time? Questions about the state and federal response. And we're going to speak with the White House Press Secretary shortly.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Abortion rights are one step closer to being in front of the Supreme Court again. An appeals court ruling clearing the way for a popular abortion drug to remain available for now.

But very big questions about how long it will remain that way. I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sarah Sidner This is CNN News Central

SIDNER: This morning, there is growing concern for the safety of several jurors in Georgia and a judge in Washington, D.C. who are assigned to the criminal cases against Donald Trump. There are new chilling details about the threats both are now facing. In Texas, a woman is in custody after threatening to kill the federal judge in special counsel Jack Smith's 2020 election probe.

In Georgia, there's violent chatter on far right websites that is escalating against grand jury members who voted to indict Donald Trump. Their names were published as part of the indictment and now their photos and purported addresses are being circulated online. And we have just learned when Donald Trump is likely to surrender in Georgia, it will be next week, according to sources.

CNN's Nick Valencia is outside the jail in Georgia. Nick, what are police saying about these threats against those grand jurors? NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While they are clearly disturbed by this, as is everyone who's hearing the news, safety and security clearly being an issue here, still a very big issue related to those connected to this legal process with a woman now in Texas in custody for threatening to kill the Texas judge that's overseeing the federal election case tied to the former president.

A judge receiving a phone call in her chambers on August 5th with part of that phone call reportedly saying, "you are in our sights, we want to kill you."

That call reportedly also included some racist language. The judge we should mention is black. Meanwhile, here in Georgia, some far right anonymous users online are calling for violence against the Fulton County grand jurors. Overnight, social media profiles, photos, and even in some cases home addresses purportedly belonging to some of these grand jurors finding their way online.

CNN cannot independently verify the posts, and we're not naming the websites, but it appears as though some of those names matched the names that were made public as part of Georgia law under the indictment that Fulton County indictment that was issued earlier this week. Fulton County grand jurors still have not made any comments publicly.

Meanwhile, here, outside of the Fulton County jail, we're still waiting for those 19 defendants to turn themselves in, including the former president. Our Alayna Treene tells us that sources is familiar with the matter understand that the Trump team is still negotiating with the Fulton County District Attorney's office.

They don't only have to negotiate with Trump's team, but also the Secret Service, the conditions of his surrender. Sara.

SIDNER: Alright, Nick Valencia, thank you so much for that recording. John.

BERMAN: Alright, this morning, new reporting on Rudy Giuliani in trouble: legal, ethical, and financial trouble.

Sources tell CNN that Giuliani went to Mar-a-Lago to personally plead with Donald Trump for help paying his ballooning legal bills. Giuliani faces hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees, also sanctions amid numerous lawsuits. And now of course, he faces criminal charges in Georgia. CNN Senior Legal Affairs correspondent Paula Reid broke the story right along with Kaitlan Collins.

Paula joins us now, this again, I see it as a pilgrimage to Mar-a-Lago by Giuliani to, you know, beg Trump for money. Paula, what happened here?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly what happened. Rudy Giuliani has seven figures worth of legal debt, and back in April, he and his longtime attorney, Rob Costello, they went down to Florida to make a pitch to Trump about why he should help Rudy Giuliani with his legal debt. Remember, Rudy Giuliani served frequently for then President Trump on various legal cases, and then Giuliani was tapped to head up these efforts to try to find fraud in the election. And it's unclear if Trump thought that was a contingency basis or he had to, you know, win all of his cases in order to get paid. Or if it's just Trump in his usual Trumpian way, being reluctant to dip into his own pocket to pay for things.

[10:05:33]

REID: But we've learned that Rudy and Costello, they were able to get an assurance from the former president that he would pay, but it was done again, in a very Trumpian, non-specific way. They didn't agree on a timeline or an amount, but about a month later, a Trump aligned political action committee, Save America, paid $320,000 for Rudy Giuliani to settle one of his many bills.

But outside of that, he hasn't received any money. And John, going forward, there's two big issues here. The first is Rudy Giuliani and keeping him in the fold, spoken with multiple advisors close to the former president who say there is an effort to keep people who could be a little too helpful to prosecutors in the fold.

They don't want another Michael Cohen situation. So, advisors close to the former president believe there is a reason, there is an incentive for him to help Rudy Giuliani out here, because of course he is named as a co-conspirator in the federal case, from the special counsel. But he hasn't been charged.

We also know he sat down with investigators at length, and his attorney is pretty confident he's not going to be charged. The other big problem though, is for Rudy Giuliani. He needs an attorney in Georgia and it's not easy to get an attorney when one of your other lawyers you've already hired is in court saying, "this guy can't pay his legal bills."

So, we're watching closely to see how this impacts his representation in Georgia.

BERMAN: Yeah, I guess it is true. He does have some leverage here because there is always--

REID: Yeah.

BERMAN: The possibility that he could cooperate with investigators in one of these cases. Paula Reid, terrific reporting as always. Thank you very much. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Joining us now is CNN, Senior Political commentator, David Axelrod, Former Senior Adviser to President Obama, of course, and CNN Senior Political Commentator, Scott Jennings, Former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush. Hello, gentlemen. David, Giuliani has issues.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Kate.

BOLDUAN: We will analyze that in a little while.

Let's though, talk about the debate and debate counterprogramming, most specifically. Donald Trump is now talking about counterprogramming the upcoming debate. I wonder why he wouldn't show up to the debate. It seems an easy argument. And he's been making that, and folks have been making that he's far and away ahead.

Why would he even give them the time? But why would he show up? What do you think?

AXELROD: Well, he would show up because he doesn't want others to have the stage. He would show up because he's attracted to the main stage. He would show up because he doesn't want people to think that he is afraid to be there because of these indictments.

Those are the reasons he would show up. I've thought all along that he would not show up because if he doesn't show up, it's not the same show. The audience will be smaller, there'll be less interest. And what we're seeing is he's planning a whole week of activities, including a press conference on Monday that will dominate the week.

I think, Kate, this is a preview of the 2024 presidential race. The focus is not going to be on primaries and caucuses, it's going to be on hearings, on filings, on Trump's eruptions, it'll be conducted from the courthouse steps. It's really, you know, this is uncharted waters.

BOLDUAN: And Scott, in our conversations, if it is, as David describes, you think that is exactly what Republicans do not need, is if the focus is on court conversations from courthouse steps. I want to play for you what Ron DeSantis said yesterday about the debate in trying, it seems to get Donald Trump to that main stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You got to earn this nomination, nobody's entitled to it, you got to get up there and you got to answer questions. So, he owes it to people to go up there and debate. He needs to tell people, first of all - I mean, they're going to ask about, you know, a lot of his unfulfilled promises from when he ran in 2016.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And also his legal challenges that he is facing in 2023. What do you think of this approach? Is this-- Does what Ron DeSantis is-- What kind of trying to got him to get on the stage? Is it going to do anything?

SCOTT JENNINGS, COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: Well, probably not. I mean, Donald Trump doesn't have to take orders from the rest of these candidates. I would just offer a counter opinion. I'm not sure I'm right, but a counter opinion is if he does show up, then the entire debate is certain to be about anything and everything Donald Trump wants it to be about or what he has going on in his life, and it would probably drown out any other possibility of conversations about policies that you might want to enact as president. So, there would be a downside, I think, in some ways for the other campaigns, because he would be there sucking up all the oxygen. Let me, Kate, just paint a quick political picture, like a realistic picture though, of what Republicans are facing with Trump right now before this debate and before any of these trials are resolved.

The Associated Press did a survey this week. 64% of Americans said they definitely or probably would not vote for Donald Trump. 53% said it was definite. And that's before, before the possibility he is convicted of any crime, and right now, 58% in the latest Quinnipiac poll of Republicans say that they would not support a convicted felon for the presidency.

[10:10:42]

JENNINGS: So, we can debate the debates and all the tactics and so on and so forth. But David just pointed out that Trump's entire campaign is going to be conducted from a courthouse.

Already over 60% of Americans say they definitely or probably wouldn't support him, and that's before a conviction. The Republican party has to ask itself, are we going to beat Joe Biden because we have a referendum on Joe Biden? Or we're going to do ourself to the political reality that Trump cannot get more votes than a Democrat?

BOLDUAN: Let me add another poll into the mix here. I want to ask you both--

AXELROD: Kate, Kate, Kate --

BOLDUAN: Yes, David, go ahead.

AXELROD: Okay. Well, no, I just want to say, I saw the headline on the release that the Quinnipiac people put out, and it was really interesting because it included some of those stats that Scott just recited and then the subhead was, Trump lengthens lead in primary DeSantis phases.

BOLDUAN: Wait, let me add to this--

AXELROD: So, you have all these people saying--

BOLDUAN: Let me add to this. There's a new Fox poll out sending some very interesting signals --

AXELROD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Is the National Poll of Republicans. Trump holding on to a broad lead with 53%. But look at the now from June, it's down three points.

And look at Ron DeSantis, his support slipping as Vivek Ramaswamy's numbers are rising. DeSantis down six points since June, Ramaswamy up six points since June. Why David?

AXELROD: Well, first of all, he's probably the most vociferous supporter of Donald Trump among all these candidates, he's been the guy who's picked up Trump's themes.

He's actually offered, I think, to help pay some of Trump's expenses during all of this. So, he's picking up some of that Trumpian base. He's doing what DeSantis hoped to do, which was to make himself an alternative to Trump, among Trump-oriented voters. And he's, and you know, he is a quite a personality.

I don't know that he's going to be able to surge and and become the candidate of the party. If Trump doesn't show up though, here's my prediction. He will represent Trump's point of view on that platform. He will be the guy fighting Chris Christie over Trump.

BOLDUAN: Fascinating. It's great to see you guys. Let's do this again in person please. Come on over. Great to see you guys.

AXELROD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

AXELROD: We'll be there.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: They're even better in person. Electric --

BOLDUAN: Even better --

BERMAN: I would say.

BOLDUAN: Did you say electrifying?

BERMAN: Electric.

BOLDUAN: Ooh.

BERMAN: Magnetic.

A new battle on abortion rights could be headed to the Supreme Court after a federal appeals court says, an abortion drug can stay on the market, but with restrictions. CNN on the front lines in Ukraine, getting a firsthand look at the high stakes counter offensive.

The death toll rises to 111 on Maui, potentially more than a thousand people still unaccounted for. President Biden headed to the island next week amid new questions on the state and federal response, the White House Press Secretary is with us.

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[10:17:53]

SIDNER: In Hawaii, the death toll has climbed to 111. Officials are releasing the identities now of five of the victims. They range in age from 71 years old to 90, all of them residents from Lahaina, they are Buddy Jantoc, Melva Benjamin, Robert Dyckman, Virginia Dofa, and Alfredo Galinato. Of those confirmed to have died, only nine people in total have been identified so far, that leaves 102 victims who have not been. And the grim reality of it is, is that the process of putting names to the rest of those who have been killed might take months and maybe even years. Also, we now have more of an idea on how many people are still missing at this point.

Hawaii's governor has confirmed to CNN that that over a thousand people are still unaccounted for, and the total could be as high as 1300. An unfathomable number to consider. But the governor is warning, many people still have not been reunited with family members because of very poor cell signals, and survivors were sort of split up among shelters as families face an agonizing weight to find out if their loved ones actually made it out of that disaster alive.

Crews tasked with finding the remains, you are seeing them working there, they're slowly, painstakingly trying to make their way through all of that rubble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JOHN PELLETIER, MAUI COUNTY POLICE: But we have to do this right and realize that the responders that are going out there are recovering their loved ones and members of their families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And now with the road to Lahaina open, many residents are making that emotional trek back to their homes. And seeing the shocking amount of devastation for the very first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SITALEKI IKA, LAHAINA RESIDENT: Make me cry. Make me cry, and over 20 years I staying in my house.

HELEN KA'AI, LAHAINA RESIDENT: It's hard to take in, you know, just seeing all this devastation, I don't know what to think. We grew up here, this is home to a lot of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:20:28]

SIDNER: So much sorrow there in Lahaina this morning. We are still hearing heart-wrenching stories of the day that those fires broke out. Mahealani Richardson with Hawaii News now spoke to a man who went back into the flames to rescue anyone he could find.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHEALANI RICHARDSON, HAWAII NEWS ANCHOR: The Lahaina firestorm was coming from both ends of Front Street. Lahaina resident Kekoa Lansford says it was so smoky, the day looked like night.

KEKOA LANSFORD, LAHAINA RESIDENT: I seen a woman and she was, you know, pretty burnt up. Not to the point where she would die, but pretty bad. And I gave her a ride and something just told me, turn around, go back, grab another one. They was in a lot of pain. Some of them, I grab them and then I feel bad for them. Like, I grab them and they scream, you know, I do remember that everybody lost their slippers, I'll tell you that.

And the grandma was super hot. So, and I was in slippers myself and it was hot from my feet. I saw--

RICHARDSON: In the water?

LANSFORD: Dead bodies, smoke. Burnt people, people hiding from the fire that were dead.

RICHARDSON: There was a group of people hiding behind a dumpster, it was their only method to try to hide from the fire.

LANSFORD: And they died.

RICHARDSON: And they died.

LANSFORD: All of them

RICHARDSON: Altogether?

LANSFORD: Seen them.

RICHARDSON: Is that what you saw?

LANSFORD: Yes. That was pretty much what it was, you know? The worst part is the kids.

RICHARDSON: You saw children who perished?

LANSFORD: No (ph)

RICHARDSON: Mahealani Richardson, Hawaii News now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Wow, that would never leave your mind.

I am joined now by White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.

Thank you so much for joining us.

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Thank you, Sara, for having me.

SIDNER: That was really difficult to listen to. I'm not sure how much of that you heard. But that gentleman went back into those fires, tried to save people, and he just saw bodies, including children's bodies.

I'm wondering, as President Biden is about to head to Hawaii on Monday, what will he do during his visit to really help these people who are still dealing with these terrible disasters, including first responders?

JEAN-PIERRE: Well, Sara, thank you so much for that reporting. I think it's really important for the entire nation to see what the people of Maui, what the people of Hawaii are seeing.

And, as you just stated, on Monday, the president of first lady are going to be visiting Maui. They will see firsthand the impact of the wildfires, the devastation of loss, the devastation of land, the devastation of culture. Let's not forget that as well.

And he will hear directly from local -- local officials, state officials and survivors what it's going to take to recover. Look, the president's message and the first lady's message is going to be very clear. It's going to be, we are here for you today, tomorrow, for as long as it takes.

To those who have lost loved ones, to those who are in agony waiting to hear, you are not alone. The entire nation is grieving with you and is going to be with you as you rebuild and recover. We are not going to go anywhere until that occurs, that happens.

The president is going to continue to marshal a whole-of-government effort, approach, as he has done from day one, with having dozens of federal agencies and -- agencies and departments on the ground helping local partners and state partners get the assistance, the federal assistance, that these survivors need.

And this is incredibly important. This is something that the president takes very seriously. You have heard from the FEMA administrator there's more than 600 personnel, staffers on the ground. They have already provided $2.3 million of family assistance.

And for those in Maui, in Hawaii who are still looking to get that federal assistance, please go call 1-800-621-FEMA. Go to disasterassistance.gov. We are here to help. The federal government is here to assist, to make sure that they get everything that they need to rebuild and recover.

SIDNER: Karine, I do want to ask you about that, because FEMA was on the ground. They have been criticized in the past, in past disasters, for not getting there quickly enough.

But, in this case, they were on the ground quickly. I do want to ask you, though. You talk about people having to call that number. They have to register, as we understand it. Call the number. Go to the Web site.

But here's the big problem that we are hearing on the ground. There is no power. They are having very spotty cell service. It's very difficult to communicate. And they are restricted in their movement.

[10:25:07]

So, what can FEMA do better to help alleviate some of these issues for people who are saying, we are not getting the help we need?

JEAN-PIERRE: And so here's the thing.

Our job -- and FEMA, the administrator has spoken to this. And, obviously and unfortunately, she and her team have had to deal with many disasters over the past two years, as we're dealing with extreme weather. They are on the ground. They are doing everything that they can. Obviously, this is a dynamic situation, as you have heard directly from the administrator.

We're working with cell -- the cell companies to try and make sure that that communication happens. I mentioned that FEMA has already provided and given $2.3 million of family assistance, so it's getting out there. Our job -- and she has said this as well -- and the federal government personnel job is to make sure that we communicate that, that we get that to the folks on the ground.

And we will be there. You will hear from the president directly. He has actually said this. He's going to -- we are going to be there today, tomorrow, and as long as it takes. This is devastating, obviously, devastating, loss of life, loss of land, loss of culture, devastation, a ruin of entire city.

And so we are going to be there. You're going to see the president and the first lady. Folks are on the ground. Hundreds of personnel are on the ground. They're going to go into these communities and make that very clear that we are there to help.

SIDNER: So, Karine, you're saying they are going to be there for the long haul is what you're saying about FEMA, not just in the immediate aftermath.

I do want to ask you about a couple of different things here. One, there are records that we have found that show Hawaii's state government really underestimated the deadly threat of these fires and were under-resourced, that they didn't spend enough to try and make sure that people were safe.

The White House has said that the president has had frequent contact with Hawaii's congressional delegation and the governor, Governor Green. So I want to know if there -- I know it's a delicate time, but has there been discussion from the president about some of these issues that have come up where there wasn't good preparation and there weren't good resources put in place before this that may have been able to prevent at least some of this disaster?

JEAN-PIERRE: So, Sara, those are incredibly important questions to ask, and they should be asked.

We are -- certainly want to make sure that we get to the bottom of what happened here and understand what happened. I understand that -- we have seen the reports, obviously. I understand the state attorney general has opened up an investigation. And we want to make sure that we get to the bottom of exactly what happened leading -- leading to these devastating wildfires.

Obviously, that's important. And we got to make sure that doesn't happen again. What our focus is -- and you are correct -- the president has spoken to the governor multiple times. He spoke to him yesterday. It was the fourth time that they connected over the past several days.

He's been in touch with congressional members in Hawaii. Obviously, he and the first lady are going to be there on Monday to see directly the impacts of the wildfires.

What we are going to focus on right now -- and we're going to let the investigation happen, because, as I said, we have got to get to the bottom of that. What we are going to focus on right now is to make sure the survivors in Hawaii, in Maui, have everything that they need to rebuild.

One more thing that I failed to mention is that the SBA, the Small Business Administration, is on the ground. There's about 30 folks on the ground to help survivors and businesses make sure that they apply who are eligible for those low-interest disaster funds, so that they can rebuild. That's going to be incredibly important as well.

Again, this is a whole-of-government approach that the president was very clear that he wanted to make sure happens. And this is going to be -- this is going to be a long road ahead. It's going to be a difficult road ahead, but we are going to be there for the people of Maui.

SIDNER: All right, this is a hard turn, but I need to ask you about this, because the public really cares about this.

I want to ask you about the abortion pill mifepristone. A federal appeals court, as you know, ruled that it can remain legal, but there are some significant restrictions. This could set it up to end up, again, in the Supreme Court, this issue of abortion.

What is the president's plan if this goes before the Supreme Court and this is no longer made available to women? What is the president's plan, being that he has already pretty much exhausted a lot of his executive options?

JEAN-PIERRE: So, first of all, and, as you said at the top, Sara, mifepristone is still very much available, so people should know that. I want to make sure that Americans across the country understand that, that women understand that.

The Department of Justice, obviously, is going to lead the way here, as we're going to this -- through this legal process, do everything that they can to fight this.

Look, we have seen something over the past more than a year now of a -- of Republicans, of a Supreme Court justice that made a decision that takes away the freedom of women, that takes away freedom to make their own decisions on their own body.

The president has been very clear here that he's going to fight that. The vice president has been very clear as well. His administration has been very clear that women should have the freedom.

[10:30:00]