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Threats to Judge and Jurors in Trump Cases?; Hawaii Death Toll Continues to Rise. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 17, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:43]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: More than 1,000 people are still missing in Hawaii from the wildfires. The death toll is climbing to 111. And crews haven't yet searched more than half of the burn zone.

Officials are standing by their decision to not sound the alarm, as they now start to try to figure out how this tragedy was first ignited.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: The fallout from former President Trump's legal troubles, jurors and a judge are now facing serious threats, this as we learn more about details that how Donald Trump plans to surrender, go to jail, in Georgia.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: New video just in, Ukrainian troops training on crucial tanks, as Ukraine retake some key strategic territory.

I'm John Berman with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: The scope of pain, loss and tragedy in Maui is becoming more clear today, as families face an agonizing wait to find out what has come to -- of their loved ones who are still missing. And the death toll is climbing. Right now, 111 sets of remains have been found among the ashes.

Hawaii's governor confirms to CNN more than 1,000 people remain unaccounted for. And while we still don't have a firm number, he does estimate that it could be up to 1,300 people missing. President Biden, the first lady, they will be heading to Maui on Monday to see the devastation firsthand.

Last hour, Sara spoke with the White House press secretary, who laid out the message that Biden will be delivering when he arrives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's message and the first lady's message is going to be very clear. It's going to be, we are here for you today, tomorrow, for as long as it takes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Gloria Pazmino is on the ground in Maui and back with us.

Gloria, the search through the fire zone has proved very slow and grueling for the crews that are tasked with this. What does the search look like?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's devastating for anyone who has to do it, Kate.

And we have heard from officials who are in charge of that search. In fact, we have heard from the local police chief, who has been down to the ground zero, the disaster zone, where the fire was worse, where most of the victims have been found so far.

And he described it as a catastrophic scene. I also just want to mention something that has really stuck with me over the past several days. The governor compared the zone that is currently being searched to searching through the rubble of a war zone or searching through the rubble that was left behind at Ground Zero after the 9/11 attacks.

That's what we're talking about here. That's what 40 cadaver dogs are currently searching through in order to find any possible human remains.

Now, the governor has also told us that there is evidence that there was young children that were found in that area. He described coming upon a car that had two people in the front and two small bodies in the back. He was saying that that was likely a family that was trying to get out and didn't make it out.

Now, I'm standing just outside of the checkpoint here into Lahaina. And just in an hour or so, it's going to open up, allowing residents, workers and volunteers into the town for the day -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Now, Gloria, as you mentioned, especially when you put, as the governors described, what it looks like, like sifting through a war zone, I mean, at the same time, officials have wanted to be clear that Maui is not close to tourists, just the west side of the island, where you are, and what the governor was describing.

But what are you hearing about that?

PAZMINO: Well, Kate, listen, I have been here for several days now.

And it's frankly a point of contention. And you hear different opinions. And you could almost describe what's going on here as a tale of two islands. Lahaina is one city in the -- on the island of Maui. And the rest of the island is OK. It has not been affected by the fire.

[11:05:13]

Take a listen to what the spokesperson for Hawaii's Joint Information Center had to say about tourism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CINDY MCMILLAN, SPOKESPERSON, HAWAII JOINT INFORMATION CENTER: Visitors do contribute so much to our economy here, and we appreciate that.

At this point in time, we're just asking that visitors don't go to West Maui. The key here is respect for the special place that is home. And Lahaina has such a rich history and culture right now really focused on the families and loved ones we have lost there. And then we will look to recovery and rebuilding.

But, right now, it is a balance. It is about respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: So, that is the key, Kate. Stay away from the areas where you do not need to be.

There's no need to be near Lahaina if you have nothing to do here. The rest of the island could use the help. It is an important part of the economic engine of the state. But, for now, this area needs to be kept for recovery and the work that's happening here -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Gloria, thank you for being there -- Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, Kate, the awful truth is that the fires aren't finished in other parts of Hawaii.

Lahaina, of course, not the only place that were hit by these wildfires. In the Upcountry, fire crews are still putting out hot spots in Kula.

CNN's Bill Weir takes us there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Aloha from the Kula neighborhood.

This is the ongoing Upcountry fire. We're several miles from Lahaina, but several hundred homes were burned up here last week. And there are active hot spots still over a week after the initial blaze broke out. You can see that chopper in the distance is from the Maui Fire Department. He's got a bucket dangling below, and, with that precision, dipping it into swimming pools and dropping it on smoldering hot spots in these canyons.

There was worry that, if the winds cranked up again, it could start a whole new firestorm up here. Here he is coming right now. This is really the only official presence we have seen, even this long after the initial fire.

While we have heard reports that they were going to double the number of National Guardsman and maybe even some Coast Guard to come up and work on the fires, we haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

We are seeing actually a couple of folks from FEMA vests talking to homeowners about how to get them into the system for a one-time cash payout and maybe some support on housing repairs.

But if this is your house, there is no repair right now. There is opportunity to get a low-interest loan for maybe half-a-million dollars. And we are hearing reports of sort of vulture predatory real estate speculators calling people, especially down in Lahaina, looking to buy their property at the most stressful time of their lives.

That's brought a lot of local rage over that. And even the governor says he's going to have the state attorney general make sure no one is taken advantage of right now. But there are so many concerns on so many levels now, the mental health, the physical health, the water supply of Lahaina, which is tainted from all that PVC pipe melting and all those chemicals leaching into the ground.

Insurance claims, of course, will start to roll in as well. The big fires in California did real damage to insurance markets there. Who knows how this will play out, given a couple thousand structures that were burned.

But so many places are going to be starting from scratch. And that is probably the message the president will receive when Joe and Jill Biden come here on Monday, but, in the meantime, so many people wondering about that fatality number and how quickly it'll jump and how high.

Bill Weir, CNN, Kula, Maui.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Bill for that.

So, this morning, security preparations are under way for Donald Trump to turn himself into authorities in Georgia and new developments highlight why precautions are so important.

Overnight, safety concerns for the grand jurors who just issued the indictments in Georgia. Their photographs, social media profiles, even some of their reported home addresses have been published on sites and forums known to be used by violent extremists.

In Texas, a woman was arrested after police say she threatened to kill the federal judge handling the elections case in D.C. if Trump does not get elected in 2024.

CNN's Nick Valencia is outside the jail where Donald Trump is expected to turn himself in next week.

Nick, on these new threats or new postings surrounding the grand jurors there, what have you learned?

[11:10:01]

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a law enforcement source telling me, a law enforcement source with knowledge of this situation telling me that the jurors in from Fulton County who issued an indictment earlier this week are currently being doxxed, and that their safety is a main concern right now.

This law enforcement source telling me that the unfortunate reality of Georgia law is that these jurors' names are made public. They were published in the indictment that was released earlier this week. And, as a result now of doing their civic duty, their lives are in danger.

And it was overnight that we learned from Donie O'Sullivan that far right individuals, anonymous individuals, are calling for violence against the Fulton County jurors. And, in some cases, some of their addresses purportedly belonging to some of these jurors made their way online, including social media profiles, photos.

CNN cannot independently verify those posts. We're not naming the Web site where they appeared, but the names of some of those jurors appear to match the official names given on that indictment.

So far, those Fulton County jurors have not spoken publicly, but security continues to be something that's a main issue for those tied to the legal process here. We are also learning of a Texas woman who's currently in custody after threatening to kill the judge that is overseeing Trump's federal election case, that judge receiving a phone call in her chambers on August 5.

We should mention the judge is black. And the phone call not only said: "We are" -- it says -- quote -- "You are in our sights. We want to kill you." But it also included some racist language. DHS special agents caught up with that woman three days later. She's currently in pretrial detention.

We're currently outside the Fulton County Jail, where we are waiting for those 19 defendants to turn themselves in, including the former president. We understand, according to our Alayna Treene, that the -- Trump's team is currently negotiating with the Fulton County district attorney.

And the early indications are that the president is going to turn himself in sometime next week -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Nick Valencia, outside that jail.The other defendants could turn themselves in any day now. So there could be a lot of activity around right where you are. Keep us posted as to what goes on.

And, Kate, I do have to say, one of the concerns with all these threats, we talked to Andy McCabe, former deputy FBI director. This is just beginning.

There are all these trials that are going to happen, all these jurors who will be sitting in them. And there will be security concerns for each and every one of them.

BOLDUAN: It really is the beginning of this next chapter as, like, all of this starts going to court.

And what John's getting at is, the calendar ahead is a real factor, not just as an interesting watercooler topic, if anyone hangs around a watercooler anymore.

No, the calendar might be the newest figure to enter the 2024 presidential race. And here's why. We are less than a week away from the first 2024 Republican presidential primary debate, just as the clear front-runner who may or may not show up is facing a slew of legal issues.

Donald Trump is now facing 91 criminal charges, remember, across four separate indictments. And then add in two civil trials as well. And here are how things are lining up.

On October 2, New York's attorney general goes to trial against Trump and his civil fraud case. Three months later, January -- on January 2, the Justice Department wants to kick off its 2020 election subversion case against Trump. On January 15, then, a judge wants to start the trial in the second defamation case brought by columnist E. Jean Carroll against Trump.

Fulton County DA Fani Willis, she has just asked the judge to set a trial date of March 4 in Georgia's election case against Trump. March 25, then, is the day scheduled to begin the criminal trial in New York over Trump's 2016 hush money scheme.

Then jump ahead, if you can, even, to late May. The federal criminal trial over Trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents is set to begin. Sum it all up, it's jam-packed. It's also not set in stone.

So, as confusing as the calendar really does look right now, it could get even more confusing soon -- Sara.

SIDNER: That is an important note.

With us now, former U.S. attorney Harry Litman.

Harry, you just heard that litany of court dates that Kate went over that is facing Donald Trump and some others. Can you give me some sense of how the judges in all of these different cases across many different jurisdictions and states, how they're going to deal with this crowded calendar?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I wish I could.

This -- it would be ideal if there were some kind of organizing force. But we're talking about -- this is federalism. We're talking about New York, Georgia, the federal system, two different judges.

It is bedlam. And Kate nails it. I think the calendar has become a supporting actor in this drama. And let me add one detail.

Fani Willis has asked for her trial to start in March. She -- this is a RICO case. The last RICO case she tried -- and it had eight defendants -- went for six months. So, it's -- something's got to give. More than one thing has to give. But it won't necessarily be according to what makes most sense.

[11:15:00] There's going to be all kinds of sort of informal jockeying. And we don't know how the pieces will -- how it all look when it sifts out.

SIDNER: I imagine that the attorneys in this case, particularly Donald Trump's attorneys, will have to go to each judge.

And, as these dates, they're going to have to say, look, we have a -- we have a date that's in another state. Can you change this?

Will the judges be open to listening to that and to making -- making way for some of these changes?

LITMAN: You know, of course, they will. And they can communicate sort of informally.

And the prosecutors themselves have indicated, at least in New York and a little bit in Georgia, that they will have some flexibility as well. But if you thought of this rationally, from the top down, I think you would really hope that the January 6 trial goes first.

But there's no kind of master administrator in the sky to order it that way. And, for starters, the case...

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: There's no guarantee, is what you're saying, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

LITMAN: The second E. Jean Carroll trial, that judge has said: I'm not moving.

SIDNER: Right. All right.

I want to talk about what is happening going forward. Donald Trump has already announced he's going to do this big press conference on Monday. He's talking about again making these false claims about Georgia. If every time he goes to court, it is a media frenzy and an opportunity for him to speak, do you think that any of these judges might decide that there has to be something put in place, i.e., a gag order, to deal with what is happening?

LITMAN: Well, first on Monday, his lawyers are trying desperately to tamp this down. He's the worst client in the world, and no worse idea than then spouting out everything, especially since it'll be false.

SIDNER: I got to ask this one more question.

LITMAN: But, definitely Sara, but not just because he will talk, but to the extent he intimidates witnesses, and that is his track record and M.O.

SIDNER: All right, I do want to ask you lastly about this really disturbing trend that we are now seeing, pictures, social media profiles, even purportedly home addresses of these grand jurors in Georgia, and threats being made on some online sites, all of whom voted to indict Donald Trump.

There's also this threat and an arrest against the judge in the D.C. case. Is this going to have a chilling effect? And how should the government do something to protect these people?

LITMAN: It is horrifying. And the government will marshal its forces. But it only takes one lone wolf.

This is like January 6 all over again. Trump puts into motion certain forces, and then he can't control them. It is genuinely a terrifying prospect. And if something goes awry, it's a tragedy and also a huge challenge for the system.

SIDNER: Harry Litman, thank you so much for all your insight on this. Appreciate you.

LITMAN: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: John.

BERMAN: Donald Trump is reportedly thinking of ways to steal the spotlight from next week's Republican primary debate. What we're learning about his counterprogramming plans.

And a big reversal in a case many see as a threat to the free press. The items that police seized in the raid on a Kansas newspaper, those items will now be returned.

And small, but consistent, important victories -- how Ukrainian troops turned the tables on what was once a Russian stronghold. CNN on the front lines.

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[11:23:19]

BOLDUAN: To debate or to counterprogram the debate? That seems the real question this morning.

Sources familiar with Donald Trump's plans tell CNN he and his advisers are still not sure if Trump will show up for the first Republican primary debate next week. Instead, he is considering an appearance on a different TV network at the same time as the others take the stage.

Also into CNN this morning, news on when Trump will be surrendering to authorities in Georgia, not today or tomorrow, but his -- he is planning to take this into next week to be booked on his charges there, all while there's fresh reporting suggesting growing fatigue among Georgia voters over the ongoing legal drama surrounding the Republican front-runner.

Joining us now from Atlanta is Cameron McWhirter. He covers politics for "The Wall Street Journal."

It's good to have you, Cameron. You report that Georgia has become ground zero for exhaustion over the legal drama surrounding Donald Trump. One woman in your recent piece who voted for Trump in 2020, is unsure how she's going to vote in 2024, told you this: "For the country, I think they should let it go. It's getting ridiculous."

And you went on to write: "That kind of Trump fatigue is pervasive in Georgia, Republican campaign strategists warn, especially among suburban independents and some disenchanted Republicans," which are key to anybody to win the state. "'What has he done to net a single new vote since 2020 here?' complained one Georgia Republican consultant."

What does that exhaustion look like, from what -- from your reporting, and what does it look like and what is -- what are you hearing it could mean beyond what could play out in the courtroom?

CAMERON MCWHIRTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, you know better -- as well as anyone that Georgia is going to be critical in 2024. That's the way to the White House at this point.

[11:25:04]

And we're going to have -- this mess that has just landed in all of our laps on Monday has just reignited the anger within the Republican Party. And they are -- it is nothing less than a civil war. Now, the question is, how is that going to play as a president -- any presidential candidate for the Republican Party, whomever it ends up being, tries to march forward and actually win enough votes in the state?

Because it's incredibly, incredibly close here. As you know, in 2020, Joe Biden won by 12,000 votes out of five million cast. And then, of course, Trump rejected that loss. But he lost. And the recounts showed that. But this is going to be a tight battle, no matter who ends up being at the top of the ticket, and it's going to be -- everyone has to be rowing in the same direction.

And, right now, that is not the case.

BOLDUAN: Case in point, the popular Republican governor of the state. I'm fascinated on kind of his role going forward, because and how it's going to -- how that is also going to play out.

He tweeted a response, Cameron -- and I know you saw this as well -- to Trump's promise that he -- that Trump says he's going to release a report that -- he called it a report -- that he claims will prove fraud did occur in 2020, and it will also help to exonerate him of the charges that he faces there.

So, then the sitting Republican governor of Georgia, his response to that social media posting was this: "The 2020 election in Georgia was not stolen. For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward under oath and prove anything in a court of law. Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible and fair, and will continue to be as long as I am governor. The future of our country is at stake in 2024. And that must be our focus."

What do you think of that? And what do you see as Kemp's role coming up?

MCWHIRTER: As someone who's covered Georgia politics for a long time, that was extraordinary. I mean, it's a fairly measured tweet.

It was posted -- he appended Trump's TRUTH Social comments right below that. So it was a direct response to what Trump had posted. And throughout the mess since 2020 -- and we have been basically in election mode here since then -- Kemp has been fairly muted in his response to Trump.

His approach when he ran for reelection and won was to try to just talk about issues like the economy and other things that just avoid this Trump mess. That was -- that Tuesday tweet was his first shot off the bow.

And it infuriated -- I know, from my sources that it infuriated a lot of the Trump camp in Georgia. But I think he's making the bet that it -- that they're not going to be important, that, for the Republican Party to move forward, they have to let go of 2020, they have to move on.

BOLDUAN: And he also probably remembers very closely how Donald Trump went after him very clearly.

It's great to -- it's great to have you on, Cameron. Thank you very much -- John.

BERMAN: This morning, an abrupt reversal in a case that has outraged defenders of the free press. The search warrant has been revoked in the investigation into the police raid of a Kansas newspaper.

And he did invite all these individuals in -- that is what New York's governor said about New York City's mayor in a growing standoff in a battle over migrants.

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