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Hawaii Death Toll Rises; Trump Jurors and Judge Under Threat. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 17, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: A threat to jurors and judges, names, addresses, even photos of Georgia grand jurors circulating on right- wing media after they voted to indict Donald Trump, this as he escalates his own rhetoric against the judges.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, a staggering number of people still missing, more than 1,000 unaccounted for after the Maui wildfires, crews now combing through the ruins, trying to find the remains of loved ones. At the same time, new questions about what caused this disaster and what was done to warn the people in its path. Was it enough?

And another fire system to tell you about forcing people out of their homes, the evacuation of an entire city in Canada, 230 fires threatening 20,000 people, as the smoke now encroaches into the United States.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: A judge facing death threats, grand jury members doxxed, a disturbing rise in political threats, with Donald Trump now facing four criminal indictments.

In Texas, a woman has been charged with threatening to kill the federal judge overseeing Trump's January 6 case after police say she left a voice-mail message saying -- quote -- "You are in our sights. We want to kill you."

And, in Georgia, growing concerns for the safety of the grand jurors who just issued indictments against Trump and 18 co-defendants, purported names, photos, social media profiles, even home addresses of grand jury members published on far right message boards which have been linked to violent extremist attacks. Experts tell us that some anonymous users are calling now for violence against those jurors.

With me now is CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

And, John, you have covered during your time on the NYPD multiple cases where -- of extremism of a number of kinds and the rhetoric -- public rhetoric's connection to extremism. We have seen the former president's words help drive people on January 6, the events we saw that day.

As a law enforcement professional, is there a connection between the former president's rhetoric and the kinds of attacks we're seeing here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I don't think you can disconnect them.

When you have a former president saying to his supporters, if you come after me, we come after you, and then singling out the judge in New York, the prosecutor in New York, the judge in Georgia, the prosecutor in Georgia, the judge specifically in Washington, D.C., there is not a large leap to say that is a cue to supporters to engage in this kind of conduct.

SCIUTTO: When you look at the severity of these, you have a voice- mail message left using the words, "We want to kill you."

By the way, that's a direct quote, but also things like doxxing folks, putting out their home addresses. Is that just innocent public sharing of information, or is that -- are those the kinds of words, is that the kind of sharing of information with intent?

MILLER: Well, it's interesting, because the doxxing of people, meaning using the Internet and public records to sort out names that are posted publicly -- and that's a quirk of Georgia law, that you have a secret grand jury, but then they come out with a public filing and their names are attached to that filing.

The doxxing isn't illegal. The threatening is, though. Under Title 16, Chapter 10 in the Georgia state law, someone who threatens a juror or a grand juror, especially on account of a verdict or an indictment, can face up to 20 years in jail.

So this is a very serious business. Now, the police down there working with the sheriff have set up directed patrols to give special attentions to their homes and to make sure that there's a police presence regularly in those areas.

But it's got to be upsetting to people who were called to serve and to come to a judgment based on evidence that they're now in this target zone of threats, and that their names are publicly out there with their photos and addresses.

[13:05:11]

SCIUTTO: Yes, you bring up an interesting point that that is the law in Georgia that that information is public.

John Miller, thanks so much. Always good to draw on your experience.

I want to bring in CNN's Nick Valencia. He is outside the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta. This, of course, is where former President Trump will have to surrender by next week.

What are police there saying about these threats? How seriously are they taking them?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is beyond doxxing, Jim.

These jurors are having their lives threatened for doing their civic duty, according to a law enforcement source with knowledge of the situation. That source telling me that they are working -- this is a main priority right now for law enforcement here in Atlanta and beyond.

And we learned overnight that far right groups, anonymous people online were calling for violence against some of these grand jurors, in some cases, leaking the home addresses purported to be part of these grand jurors. We don't know exactly -- we haven't had any comment so far from Fulton County grand jurors. They haven't spoken publicly.

CNN cannot independently verify those posts, and we aren't naming the Web site where they appeared. But this really a -- underscores the safety and security concern of those tied to this legal process with Trump's name attached to it, safety and security a top concern here for law enforcement officials -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. It appears they're taking it seriously.

Nick Valencia there outside the Fulton County Jail -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: This latest threat against the federal judge overseeing the January 6 case follows a disturbing trend.

The U.S. Marshals Service says that threat against judges have spiked 400 percent in the past six years. Last September, a Texas woman was arrested for allegedly threatening federal Judge Aileen Cannon. She's overseeing the classified documents case. We should note that Cannon was nominated by former President Trump in 2020.

Our next guest knows all too well about the threats towards judges.

Federal Judge Esther Salas' son, Daniel, was shot and killed three years ago at their home in New Jersey by a disgruntled attorney who had appeared before Judge Salas in court. Last year, Congress passed a bill in Daniel's name, the Daniel Anderl Judicial Security and Privacy Act. It protects judges' personal information and that of their loved ones.

We're joined now by Judge Salas.

Judge, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. We're sorry that your family has had to endure such loss, but we appreciate you sharing that story with us.

I'm wondering what your reaction is to hearing the news that Judge Chutkan received this threatening voice-mail.

JUDGE ESTHER SALAS, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: The reaction is, obviously, sadness. We continue to deal with a war, a war of words. Words matter, Mr.

Sanchez. The way we treat each other, it matters. The lack of civility, the inability for us to just agree to disagree, all of that is leading to lives being lost. My son's life, I can never get back.

And I -- Mark and I, my husband, have been without him for three long years. And so I'm just, again, dismayed by what we continue to do to really threaten democracy, whether it be the physical or threats of violence against judges, whether it be our political leaders on the right or left questioning our justice system and perpetuating false narratives about judges somehow conspiring to be on the other side, whatever side that is, and then, of course, the real public erosion in confidence in our justice system.

We're doing some serious damage to this country, and we are threatening democracy. And I continue to advocate for increased protections for judges at all levels of government, and I won't stop doing that. Neither will my husband, Mark.

We will continue to advocate for protections for state judges, who are incredibly vulnerable.

SANCHEZ: Judge, on that note, you have worked very hard to secure your son's legacy, given everything that's happened.

I remember you and I actually spoke last year about another judge in Wisconsin who was targeted and killed by a gunman. And, at the time, you were pushing lawmakers to pass that piece of legislation. They eventually did.

Do you feel that it goes far enough? Does more need to be done to secure judges?

SALAS: Absolutely, more needs to be done to secure judges.

The Daniel Anderl Judicial Security and Privacy Act, it is a great, solid step in the right direction, but there are obvious limits. It protects federal judges' personally identifiable information. State judges -- there are over 30,000 state and local judges that serve this country and serve the states that they sit in.

[13:10:10]

They are very vulnerable. From our rough numbers, there are 22 states and territories where there are no laws aimed at protecting judges or privacy. These states are vulnerable. The judges there are vulnerable. And we have to protect judges at all level, because, really, judges stand at the front line protecting democracy.

We are the ones that are standing there when people want to voice their opinions and their objections. They should be. But when lines are crossed, judges are counted on to really uphold the Constitution.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

SALAS: Our government doesn't work without the judiciary, without the justice system.

And we need to ensure that we don't cross lines when we're talking about speaking and voicing perhaps our feelings about one thing or the other. Words matter. Words matter. And how we treat each other, it matters.

SANCHEZ: That is such an important point.

Judge, I'm also curious to get your thoughts on the news that it appears that personal information of grand jury members in Fulton County, Georgia, was leaked online and that they are now being threatened as well. That could have a big impact on jury pools.

SALAS: I know my lane, and I can tell you that I leave it to the legislature and our legislators to really decide what needs to be done with respect to other categories of individuals that we count on, by the way, for our justice system to operate.

I can tell you that I speak as a judge who knows firsthand what will happen when we don't secure personally identifiable information, like home addresses. I can tell you firsthand the pain I deal with every morning when I wake up and I have to think about life without my only child.

I can tell you firsthand about that. Life is a precious gift, and we have to start treating each other and how we actually speak about each other's lives seriously and with much respect. So, I obviously want to stay in my lane and remind your viewers and remind you, Mr. Sanchez, that we need the justice system to operate if we want to live in a land that, quite frankly, protects the rights of its citizens.

We need that justice system to operate as it should, as it always has. And I'd like to say why I think it makes this country the best country in the world. We need to make sure that we protect those that are just doing their jobs. And, in this case, judges do their jobs. And we need to be able to do our jobs without fear of retaliation, retribution, or death.

SANCHEZ: Judge Esther Salas, we're so grateful, not only for your time, but also the work that you have done to honor Daniel's legacy.

Thanks so much.

SALAS: Thank you very much, Mr. Sanchez.

SANCHEZ: Of course -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, quite a statement there from the judge.

Well, a majority of American voters believe that Donald Trump broke the law as he tried to overturn the 2020 election, that according to a new FOX News poll; 53 percent say he did something illegal; 20 percent say he did something wrong, though not illegal. About a quarter say he did nothing seriously wrong at all.

This poll was taken before his latest indictment on election subversion efforts in the state of Georgia. Trump now has eight days to surrender to authorities there on charges, including conspiracy and racketeering.

And we have some fresh insight into when exactly his surrender could happen.

CNN's Alayna Treene has new reporting.

Alayna, what's the timeline?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, it's not going to be this week. He will not be surrendering this week. There was actually some chatter this morning. People noticed Donald Trump's plane leaving from Newark, from where he leaves when he gets out of New Jersey.

He's actually in a fund-raiser in Tennessee today...

SCIUTTO: So, not on his way...

(CROSSTALK)

TREENE: ... in Nashville, not on his way to Georgia.

From my conversations with Donald Trump's team, it's definitely going to be happening next week. But there are still conversations to be had between Trump's team, as well as the district attorney's office in Fulton County. And those are going to continue into next week, I'm told.

SCIUTTO: Do they say what it's going to look like when he walks into the Fulton County Jail, into the room where other folks charged with anything from misdemeanors, to felonies, to gun possession, to violent crimes? He's going to be in the same room.

TREENE: I mean, it's going to be a remarkable image to see, Jim, one we haven't seen so far with these past indictments.

But that's part of what they are negotiating right now. They're trying to figure out the details for this. They're obviously coordinating with Secret Service and Donald Trump's team to make this go as smoothly as possible next week.

[13:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

So, there's another big event next week in this campaign. That is the GOP primary debate. It is not believed -- at least that's the betting -- that Trump's going to participate in that. So what are his plans?

TREENE: That's right. Donald Trump is most likely not going to be on that debate stage, I'm told, although I have to hedge.

I did this in my story.

(CROSSTALK) TREENE: As it always is with Donald Trump, he could always change his mind at the last minute, but, no, he's not expected to be there.

What I am told he is doing is, he's been throwing out personally ideas about counterprogramming. And that includes a potential interview with Tucker Carlson, as well as calling into different media networks. We have seen this playbook with Donald Trump before.

And one thing that I also find very interesting is that, even if he's not there, he wants his surrogates to be there. His team has been talking to people like Congressman Byron Donalds and Congressman Matt Gaetz, both of Florida, as well as Kari Lake and some of -- members of Donald Trump's team themselves to be in the spin room that night and represent him.

SCIUTTO: All right, so some of whom -- you mentioned Kari Lake -- who have also spouted false...

TREENE: Yes.

SCIUTTO: ... falsehoods about the 2020 election.

Alayna Treene, thanks so much -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: More than 100 people now confirm dead in the Hawaii wildfires, more than 1,000 still missing. We're going to take you live to Lahaina with more on the painstaking search for victims.

Plus, if you're over COVID, you're not alone. A new poll shows the rest of America is too. But is the threat over? A lot of folks getting sick. Get ready for virus season. It's coming, and we need to prepare.

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[13:20:30]

SANCHEZ: More than one week since a wildfire wiped out Lahaina, Maui, the scope of just how deadly it was remains unknown.

The governor says over 1,000 people remain unaccounted for. The confirmed death toll, meantime, stands at 111, with just 38 percent of the disaster zone searched. State officials have confirmed that children are among the dead. A genetics team will now help identify their remains, as officials have received some 41 DNA samples from relatives.

Only a handful of families have gotten official confirmation that flames killed their loved ones. Among them is 71-year-old Melva Benjamin. Her granddaughter says the last time her family heard from her, she and her partner were evacuating toward a shelter.

Let's take you now live to the area with CNN's Gloria Pazmino.

So, Gloria, set the scene for us. I imagine there are very painful moments for families that are for the first time returning home.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Boris.

And the main road into Lahaina is now open. And what that means is that people who were able to make it out of Lahaina, those who were able to escape the flames are starting to come back to assess the damage and to look at everything they have lost. They haven't just lost their homes. Most of the houses in Lahaina are completely gone. They have also lost their neighbors, their family members, their loved ones.

Now, the disaster zone, ground zero, where the fire was the worst, where most of the victims have been found so far, that area continues to be restricted. And that's because there's a critical mission under way. And that is to find human remains.

Now, I want you to hear directly from the people of Lahaina, who are starting to return to find that most of this historic town, once the capital of the Hawaiian Kingdom, is completely gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SITALEKI IKA, LAHAINA RESIDENT: Make me cry. Make me cry. And now -- over 20 years, I was staying in my house.

HELEN KA'AI, LAHAINA RESIDENT: It's hard to take in, you know, just seeing all this devastation. I don't know what to think. We grew up here. This is home to a lot of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, the people of Lahaina have a lot of unanswered questions.

One of the big ones is why the siren system did not go off. Now, officials here have been somewhat defensive about that. They have said that the alarm system is designed to warn people about incoming tsunamis. And the protocol there is to seek higher ground. There's a big mountain directly in front of me.

And officials here say that that's where people would have headed towards had the alarms gone off. And that means they would have headed directly into the fire, which started in the mountains beyond.

So, a lot of unanswered questions. A lot of aid that's starting to slowly come in. And, on Monday, President Joe Biden and the first lady, Jill Biden, will get a firsthand look for themselves at the devastation and the damage. They will attempt to provide some comfort to the people of Lahaina -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Gloria Pazmino reporting live from Hawaii.

Gloria, thank you so much.

We want to take you now to the Pentagon and CNN Pentagon correspondent, Oren Liebermann.

Because, Oren, you have some reporting about additional help that is on the way.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Boris, we have seen the number of Hawaii National Guardsman devoted to helping with the recovery efforts from the wildfires rapidly increase.

It was 250 at the beginning of the week, according to the Pentagon press secretary. It has since more than doubled to 557 Hawaii National Guardsman activated on state orders to help.

And they're doing a number of different roles, including search and recovery, helping with command-and-control, supporting local law enforcement, so different elements in what is becoming a massive response to this and all of the efforts that are needed around this. On top of that, the military has also set up what's known as Joint Task Force 50.

And that's designed to coordinate the response, the assistance, and the capabilities that come in from all the different services. We have heard from the Pentagon that there are assets on standby, and that includes helicopters and aircraft. They have already dumped nearly 200,000 gallons of water on areas of the fire over the previous few days.

So that effort continues, and there are more assets on standby. There's certainly been a bit of a clamor wondering, where is the military, especially because Hawaii is the base of Indo-Pacific Command, and there are significant military forces there.

[13:25:08]

But the military's cause is not just to send in too many forces and create a logistical problem. And, on top of that, it is FEMA that's leading this response, and DOD is working to fulfill FEMA's requests if and when they come in.

So, Boris, will keep you posted. We will have a briefing here in a little bit and see if there are more DOD assets and Guardsmen committed to this effort.

SANCHEZ: We look forward to details from that.

Oren Liebermann from the Pentagon, thank you so much -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: It is not just Hawaii.

Hundreds of wildfires in Canada are now forcing evacuations in what officials there are calling a crisis. We will show you when the smoke from these fires could impact Midwestern states here.

Plus, a Marine has been charged with sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl who was discovered on a military base in California. Ahead, how military leaders are responding.

Do stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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