Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Hawaii Gov.: 1,000-Plus Still Unaccounted After Deadly Wildfire; People Linked To Trump Cases Get Violent Threats; Texas Woman Charged With Threatening To Kill Judge. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 17, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Combing through the ashes. More than a thousand people still missing on Maui. Responders are searching for any trace of those unaccounted for. We're going to take you live to Hawaii with the latest on those efforts.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Danger on the far-right. Internet calls for violence against Fulton County grand jurors after they voted to indict former President Trump. Now, key information -- private information about their lives is circulating on social media.

And Buffalo shooting survivors are suing a new lawsuit just filed against social media companies, the shooter's parents, and gun companies. Do they have a case? We are following these major developing stories and many more coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We begin with historic devastation in paradise, the Maui wildfire. Nine days after flames burned down the village of Lahaina, there are more than a thousand people that officials still can't account for. The confirmed dead at this hour, 111.

And we've learned that children are among those killed. 40 cadaver dogs from 15 States are right now searching for remains among the ashes. And as teams look for the dead, the survivors are returning to see what is left of their homes, questioning why alert systems failed, and hearing warnings of predatory land grabs for their decimated properties.

Let's take you there now with CNN National Correspondent Gloria Pazmino, who is in Lahaina for us. So, Gloria, what is happening in that area?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, the main road that leads right here into Lahaina has been opened. And what that means is that residents who were able to get out of Lahaina as the fire was burning are starting to return and they are taking a look at what has been destroyed.

Just take a look here behind me. We are sort of at a high point here in the town and you can see that entire homes are gone. Only the foundation is left. There are burned-out cars.

Most of this town is completely gone and most of the town has been wiped out. And people are returning. Our crews have been here on the ground because we want to hear directly from the people of Lahaina. And I want you to listen from a young man who described to us the chaos that he experienced as he was trying to get out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSUE GARCIA VARGAS, WILDFIRE SURVIVOR WHO LOST BROTHER: We left them. We left -- we left my little brother at home. He was a brave kid.

I should have told him I loved him. I should have told him I cared for him. And I should hug him. I should have done a lot more than what I had done. And I secure I'm going to take it until the day I die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Josue is only 20 years old, Boris. And you can tell that he's still in shock. You can imagine the trauma that he's gone through that the people of Lahaina have gone through. One of the things that struck me while he was speaking to us was that he said he hasn't been able to sleep comfortably since the fires thinking of the fact that he wasn't able to get to his brother as they were trying to get out.

[14:05:05]

Now, the people of Lahaina have a lot of questions. And we've been asking those questions primarily about the sound -- the alarm system here in town and why it was not deployed. Officials here have told us that the alarm system is designed to send people into higher ground and that would have had the opposite effect because it would have sent people right into the area where the fires were burning.

Now, as if the people of Lahaina didn't have enough to deal with right now, they are also now having to worry about predatory practices from real estate buyers. The governor has put out a warning call warning residents about potential buyers who may be in the area looking to buy property from people in Lahaina who are cash-strapped as a result of this disaster. He has ordered the attorney general to be on the lookout for these kinds of practices. And he has said that he plans to put a plan into effect to make sure that this doesn't happen.

I do want to mention, Boris, the devastation zone, the impact zone. It's just over the hills behind us. And there's a critical mission that is underway there. You mentioned that at the beginning.

It is the methodical and slow process of finding any human remains. They're working through the ashes with cadaver dogs trying to find anyone that was left behind, anyone that did not survive this fire. In an effort to identify them, that's going to take a while.

But to bring closure to families, like Josue's family who know that they've lost their lost -- their loved ones. And they are just really struggling to get by now every day with the guilt that they survived and their loved ones didn't. Boris. SANCHEZ: An excruciating process as they try to discover and identify remains. Gloria Pazmino, from Lahaina, Hawaii, thank you so much. Let's turn now to CNN Consumer Reporter Nathaniel Meyersohn. Because, Nathaniel, there are going to be some serious economic ramifications from these fires, right?

NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN CONSUMER REPORTER: Yes, Boris. The economic impact of these fires is catastrophic for Hawaii and Maui. Moody's is estimating it's going to cost between three billion dollars and $7.5 billion to rebuild. To put that in perspective, Maui's economic output is about $10 billion.

Moody's is predicting a severe local recession. And this is happening just as Maui is beginning to rebound from the impact of the pandemic. Tourism support is about 80 percent of the economy and 75 percent of jobs in Maui. So, this is just happening at a devastating time.

SANCHEZ: Nathaniel Myersohn, thanks so much for that perspective. Jim, over to you.

SCIUTTO: We're going to speak now to the state senator who represents the Lahaina area. Angus McKelvey joining us now from Honolulu on Oahu. Thanks so much for taking the time this afternoon. I know you've been going through a lot as has your community.

ANGUS MCKELVEY, DEMOCRATIC STATE REPRESENTATIVE, HAWAII: Thank you so much. Yes, I'm just here to briefly do the communications dump, reunite with my brother and get back. But thank you so much for having me on.

The reporter really, you know, hit the key things that are going on in the ground. And I really appreciate having your team out there on the ground, talking to the community. So, what the community needs, and their questions and everything are truly getting out because there has been a disconnect of communication going on that's been adding to the frustration, which I'm sure your reporter can probably chime into as well.

But it's been a -- it's been a very long, hard struggle. And you know anecdotally, the stories I'm hearing at the community hubs and around the part of the upper part of West Maui, was just bracing for there's going to be more unfortunately, numbers of deceased.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: And you know, we're, sadly seeing there could be more children as the count continues.

SCIUTTO: Just heartbreaking. We hear of -- well, estimates of the number missing. Do you have any sense of the scale of loss of life?

MCKELVEY: I have -- no, I don't but if you frame this picture, you know, when the day the fire happened, the power was out and the schools were canceled. Many of the homes in that very tightly condensed area had a lot of kids who were there but their parents weren't there who were at work. SCIUTTO: Oh, God.

MCKELVEY: And there was no warning, no nothing, and no -- it's just -- it's heartbreaking. And so yes, I'm sorry. But when I think that given the loss in the tragedy, we need to do everything we can to investigate how this occurred and hold those accountable.

But we -- they're -- we've been very strong and tough questions asked about the alert system and everything else. And quite frankly, I've heard the line that oh, people would have panicked and run up to the mountains because it's a tsunami siren, the reaction of the community to that is utter disbelief.

[14:10:09]

It's insulting to think that people would be that clueless, that they wouldn't know that siren's blasting was because of the fire. And these are not tsunami sirens or disaster sirens. They froze the sound in any kind of different disaster.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: So, you know, I'm very disappointed that this is the statement coming out of the county, thinking that we're not going to blow the sirens because people are going to just to not understand it, they're going to run towards the fire up the mountain.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: And that's --

SCIUTTO: Goodness. The thought -- the thought of children at home, home alone through this is just too much to bear. You mentioned the alarm system. There's also been attention focused on the power company, and whether there were signs missed or steps not taken given some of the videos, we've seen of what appear to be sparks around the time that the fire started. Do you believe there needs to be an investigation of the power company's possible role in this?

MCKELVEY: I absolutely do. A colleague of mine who's the Chair of the Consumer Protection Committee, Senator Jarrett Keohokalole, we've written a letter asking for an independent panel to be convened to do a thorough investigation.

When I found out from my friend, Mr. Shevlin, that he had the video timestamps from his office of the beginning part of that, I fell it is imperative that he get that to the media so that it would be part of the record of accountability that needs to be created.

This is important. We need to put together the best evidence. I've been telling people, if you've seen it, or they're recorded on your cell phone, we need to record the memories and observations now while they're fresh --

SCIUTTO: Yes. MCKELVEY: -- to put together you know, a thorough investigation. I mean, I'm sorry. We have dead that could bypass even the Nebraska fire. And this could be the deadliest tragedy. Children have died. There -- we should hold -- we should stop at nothing to uncover every bit of truth and hold those accountable for it.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: And I'm sorry if it's inconvenient for some of those in government to listen to what I'm saying but this is the truth. We need to do our Kuleana, our due duty, our due diligence to ensure that we investigate and create a record of true accountability and to look at what happened.

It's not the first case. I was told by somebody yesterday, there was a large wildfire I believe in California, and there was an investigation, there were criminal charges, and there was accountability. So, I think nothing else that the people of Lahaina were grieving in the ashes right now are over that. So, that's why I think it's important we pursue this. We shouldn't be afraid of putting together in a record so there can be accountability, truth, and help closure.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You mentioned steps not taken prior to this. How about the federal response? Because you earlier this week expressed frustration with the federal response in terms of rescue resources. President Biden is now going to visit Maui. What is your message to him?

MCKELVEY: Yes. My message to him is I hoped in coming that he's not going to basically -- you know, I know when the president usually arrives, it's a huge -- you know, I mean, I guess production, and I'm hoping that it's not going to cause a lot of chaos in the recovery zone. But I appreciate the fact he is coming out here to look at it.

I don't know if I'll be invited to meet with him. But if I were, I would be like, you know, the community here is suffering, you see it firsthand. We need federal resources. It's better to have more resources that last. But the biggest thing we need is we need FEMA to come off that 30,000-foot cloud, to come out of Honolulu, and actually be working with the community leaders at the hub level, like we've been doing.

Part of the frustration I've had is we know what's going on in the ground. We're getting requests in the information and feedback. We're sending it up. And we're not getting any kind of response. When decisions are made in DC and elsewhere, we don't know about it. And of course, the community doesn't know about it because of the communications.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: And here's the reality. When you're in the community, people look at you. They don't care if you're the state or the county, you're a government. And if you can't provide answers and information to them, then that actually helps to create more resentment and distrust. SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: If our government people can't communicate with us and are getting kept in the loop, then what about us, you know? And so that's the frustrating thing for me. We're a resource on the ground. We're not part of the defense chain, we get that. But we're on the ground and we are seen as that.

So, that being said, there have been bright spots. We are making progress for increasing the coordination among the hubs, trying to convince the counties and others that these community hubs are actually forming into community centers, a sense of community, and that we should support them and let them wind down slowly and not just cut them off completely.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: That's the most important thing right now.

[14:15:00]

And then, I want to really give a shout-out to my colleagues, my Senate colleagues. They've been texting and creating chains with me to get information out to get stuff back to me to the community. They were absolutely instrumental. Senator DeCoite, Agaran, Tim Richards, Representative Hashimoto, all of them.

And I also want to thank Congresswoman Tokuda who's also been frustrated. Her and her office have been finally providing a way for us to get some kind of information, and be able to get some kind of semblance of what's going on. But that's how we've had to triage things to try to get -- to try to be able to move forward.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: And it's frustrating, obviously, to every day.

SCIUTTO: It's heartbreaking.

MCKELVEY: And you know, people had no homes. Yes. Think about this for a second. You've lost not only your home, you've lost your business and your income, which was pointed to earlier.

You've lost your school. You've lost your daycare. You've lost your grocery store. You've lost everything that creates what is known as a life. And now you're expected to rebuild it.

Meanwhile, you've got chaos going on all around, and you still can't get into the areas. There's no plan. This is a good communication point.

We got areas where the homes are intact, businesses are intact, that could actually stand up. There's been no plan to be like, OK, what are we going to do to assess, open up and perhaps create some kind of ability for people to get in to either stand up a business or recover what they want? We don't know that. I'm asking, OK, what's the plan? What's the plan for the -- you know, and so that's been frustrating. The best news I've heard in this broadcast and I appreciate it is the increased multiplier of the SAR resources.

SCIUTTO: Yes, search and rescue.

MCKELVEY: To hear that there's more dogs and teams out there. Yes, it's really certainly is correct, sir.

SCIUTTO: OK.

MCKELVEY: It's really imperative because we have weather coming and we need to move to not only be able to open up these areas but to try to recover what we can in case evidence is lost. So, I'm really glad to hear that.

So, there are bright spots. There are things moving along, but it is a hiccup. It is chaos. Still only because of lack of communication is still quite a problematic thing in there.

SCIUTTO: Well. And I'm just -- I'm just imagining those parents who may have lost their children there as we look at images that make you think post-apocalyptic, almost.

MCKELVEY: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Angus McKelvey, we know this is personal for you, too, as well. You lost your home. We wish you and you wish -- we wish the people of Lahaina the fastest recovery possible. Thank you for joining us.

MCKELVEY: I thank you so much. And let me just leave you with this. You know, this is about healing and this is about us as a community doing better. And also about us creating a record, I guess. If there's lessons that can be learned that can be taught to the world so future tragedies like this can be avoided, that too, is an important thing.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCKELVEY: But thank you so much. Mahalo and Aloha from our community. And thank you for the coverage you're giving us. It means a lot in Lahaina.

SCIUTTO: We'll do it -- we'll do our best. Angus McKelvey, thanks so much.

I just want to give you a chance here if you're watching these images, and I imagine you are and want to help. For more information about how you can help Hawaii wildfire victims, please do go to cnn.com/impact. You can also text Hawaii to 707070, 70, 70, 70 to donate. Lots of good ways there. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Serious concerns after a Texas woman is charged for threatening to kill a judge overseeing a Trump case. And we're learning that key information about grand jury members in Georgia is now circulating on far-right social media. We're following the latest there.

Plus, survivors of that racist Buffalo shooting are suing social media giants. The plaintiffs claiming that the platforms radicalized the killer and gave him everything he needed to carry out his plans. We're looking closely at their case.

And the U.S. women's soccer coach resigning after the team's disappointing World Cup exit. We have a reaction straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:43]

SANCHEZ: People are being threatened to be killed for doing their civic duty. That is a direct quote from a law enforcement source to CNN on the security of Georgia Grand Jury jurors who voted to indict Donald Trump. There have been growing concerns for their safety after their purported names, photos, social media profiles, and even home addresses were published on far-right message boards linked to violent extremist attacks.

Experts tell us that some anonymous users are calling for violence against those jurors. The Atlanta Police Department is now working with the Fulton County Sheriff's Office on potential safety issues.

Meantime, in Texas, a woman has been charged with threatening to kill the federal judge overseeing Donald Trump's January six case after police say she left a voicemail message saying "you are in our sights. We want to kill you." Among a number of other grotesque things.

CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller joins us now. John, look, Donald Trump attacked Judge Chutkan on social media multiple times. And now she's receiving death threats. Do you see a connection there?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, there's the connection that Donald Trump lashes out personally against judges, against prosecutors, against plaintiffs and sets the tone of that language with statements like if you come after me, we're coming after you. Who's we? Does he mean Donald Trump and his lawyers or is he talking about his followers, which kind of harkens back to the violence of January six at the Capitol?

What we have in this case with Judge Chutkan though is the Department of Homeland Security Federal Protective Service, the people who guard that courthouse in Texas went out to where the call originated from. And they spoke to Abby Joe Shry and she said, well, I made the call, but I have no intention of going up there and shooting anybody. I didn't mean it. I was drinking. Her father says she's a non-violent alcoholic.

But under Title 18 section 875 (c), using interstate commerce to threaten a federal official to keep them from doing their job is a very serious offense. And I think what they're doing with this case is they're setting an early example, which is people who make these threats are going to be dealt with. [14:25:08]

SANCHEZ: Yes. It wasn't just a threat to her. It was a threat to her entire family coming from that woman in Texas. John, I want to get your thoughts --

MILLER: And to a member of Congress.

SANCHEZ: Correct. Yes. I want to get your thoughts on the situation with the grand jurors in Georgia because a law enforcement source told CNN it's up to the Fulton County Sheriff's Office to announce directed patrols to those grand jurors. Do you think that's going to be necessary?

MILLER: I think it's going to be necessary on two levels. One, if somebody's looking at them or looking at their homes, and they see a police car going by every five minutes, that can have an effect.

But two, if you're one of those grand jurors and you say I did my civic duty now I'm getting death threats and my addresses on the internet and my picture from my social media. They know where I live, they know where I look like -- what I look like. Having that extra police patrol that car that sits in front of your house unless it's out on another call, the other car that's driving by the special attention from the police probably gives some measure of a comforting effect.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Nevertheless, this could potentially have a cooling effect on other jurors that might serve and other juries. John Miller, thanks so much for the expertise. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, that heightened security situation playing out before the former president has turned himself in on those charges in Georgia, sources tell us that most likely to happen next week as his legal team is working out the details of his surrender at the Fulton County Jail. Let's discuss this case's broader implications with former Trump White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham and Republican election lawyer, Ben Ginsburg. Good to have you both on today. Thanks so much.

Stephanie, I want to ask you this. You look at the doxxing of these jurors. You look at these threats. For instance, you get -- against the judge here.

The former president has attacked the system. He's attacked the judges. He's made personal and public attacks against some of the witnesses in this case. Has he helped to give license by his own public attacks to this kind of behavior in these kinds of threats?

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, absolutely. I mean -- and you can look to January six, I think, as a huge, huge example. But you know, what gets me is that I know very few Republicans want to upset Donald Trump in any way right now.

But I'm asking why are there no Republicans, most specifically, the people running against him for the Republican nomination calling on him to put something out to say there shouldn't be no violence. Please do not threaten anybody having to do with my criminal -- many criminal cases. Please do not threaten the jurors.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GRISHAM: How is it that there's absolutely not any Republicans out there that I'm aware of that are calling on Trump? All of them should be calling on Trump to say something.

Because I think that will also show voters who he really is. That he won't keep quiet or he won't say anything. He'll stay quiet and allow people to continue to be threatened.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's a good point because it's exactly what folks were asking for on January six, right for a public statement to call back the --

GRISHAM: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- that the rioters. Ben, I think many people were surprised to learn that under Georgia law, grand jurors' identities they, are -- should list -- listed in public court documents. That's the way it is. I wonder if that law survives the current time we're in. Is that, from your perspective, someone who's participated in many cases, and you're well aware of the politics around our systems today, and the public threats to them, should that change?

BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER: Well, look. The incentives behind releasing the names was a good one. It's because you do want some transparency in your government. But it was also a rule that was put in in a very different time from now.

And so, as you see these grand jurors who did do their civic duty now come under harassment and attack, there will be a rethinking of all these laws. So, it'll be a little bit of transparency in our government that gets taken away and other institutional sort of denigrated.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's -- and it's a -- it was there for a reason, right? But, the threats might very well outweigh it.

GINSBERG: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Ben, another question for you before I go back to Stephanie. You've heard a lot of this, whataboutism, which is, of course, a new national sport. But some people are now making comparisons between Trump's attempts to overturn the election and the many lies he shared about false election fraud, and Al Gore's election disputes in 2000.

Of course, you took part in that on the Republican -- the Republican side as the court process played out. Of course, Al Gore eventually conceded the election. Do you consider those two events at all equivalent?

GINSBERG: No, not in the least. Look. The Florida election that Al Gore contested was 537 votes. Under any semblance of what sort of proper behavior is, that's an election that you can contest and recount. Donald Trump went ahead and contested and asked for recounts and brought out litigation.