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Soon: Lahaina To Speak On Response To Fire; Secret Service Prepping For Trump Charges In GA For Weeks; Biden Turns To Camp David Diplomacy For First Trilateral Summit With Kapan And South Korea. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 18, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hard questions on Maui. How did this wildfire start? How did it grow so fast, destroy lives, all with so little warning? Now, a top official in charge of the response to that crisis has quit even as he stands up for how his agency handled the disaster.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, a historic hurricane. Hilary is now a huge category-four storm. And it could be the first storm of its kind to hit California in some 84 years. Some areas could get a year's worth of rain in just one day.

And Justice defer. Donald Trump's legal team trying to push one trial years into the future while the former president backtracks on his plan to hold an allegedly explosive news conference on Monday. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: The origin and the response to the deadly Maui wildfires are both under growing scrutiny. In just a couple of hours, residents of the devastated town of Lahaina are set to hold a news conference to address how officials responded to the disaster. It comes after Maui's Emergency Management Chief Herman Andaya resigned one day after defending the decision not to activate the island's warning sirens in the midst of this. We're also learning that the ATF is joining the investigation of how the wildfire there started.

CNN's Bill Weir is on Maui and he joins us now. Bill, first to the Lahaina community members, their news conference here. There's growing frustration both with the lead-up to this lack of warning and the response to it. Can you explain that frustration?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you can imagine, Jim, your entire life has been turned upside down. Your neighbors have lost homes and family members. And there's no one in uniform you know, days or a week afterwards.

And all of these relief pods are completely DIY. And then it set up by folks -- you know, lifeguards and bartenders have really taken care of each other in these communities right now. So, they have a lot of venting to do. There's frustrations about everything from the air, which is toxic and blowing around, they need dust of fences to protect that, to water which can be consumed and can't -- or even boiled in parts of Lahaina and up in Koloa. There are pets -- hundreds of pets that were -- survived and now are sort of going hungry inside that area and they're demanding to get in there and take care of their animals. So, there's so much frustration.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WEIR: We heard from one woman this morning on our air who lost her home and her business, and she articulates it well. Listen.

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JESSALYN MANINA, LOST HOME AND BUSINESS IN MAUI WILDFIRES: The whole island of Maui has come together to help each other. I think everyone's a little bit let down at the lack of response from our government. People have rallied together far more than any government has so far.

Our Walmart and Target are empty because all of our people here on Maui have gone to buy brand-new supplies for all of us who have lost stuff. And if it wasn't for them in these donation centers that FEMA and Red Cross have not set up or our personal donations we, do have GoFundMe and Venmo set up all of us, personally, I wouldn't have food on my table.

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WEIR: And there you go. Just a little sample of the frustration, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, help us understand that. I look at this -- first of all, you -- clearly, the world's eyes are on this. They know what's happened there.

By the way, you're not far from one of the largest military and naval installations in the world with an enormous amount of resources. You got the Coast Guard. Why? What -- why aren't there people in uniform there -- uniform of any kind, right that helping out?

WEIR: Exactly. That's the question. That's the question. Nine days after a major event anywhere in the world, we've covered these you see Humvees and choppers pretty much everywhere that now they have increased some personnel, especially at around the fires and some relief areas but not nearly than what we've seen.

[14:05:00]

And then, as a result of all this frustration, you have Maui's emergency chief Herman Andaya, who stepped down, citing health reasons. But of course, this came after a midweek press conference where he defended the decision not to sound the alarm system on Maui saying it would drive people uphill. But even Hawaii's own emergency management website says that the all-hazards siren is used for a variety of natural and human causes events including tsunamis, hurricanes, dam breaches, flooding, wildfires, volcanic eruptions, terrorist threats, and hazardous material. So, if anything going forward, there will be new attention paid to these alarm systems.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WEIR: What they mean, what people should do when they respond to it right now, but you hear a lot of residents saying it insults our intelligence to say as Mr. Andaya did, that if they had sounded the alarm, people would have run up hill thinking it was a tsunami. Any kind of alarm to get people out of their homes and realizing ash and smoke and embers are blowing around and you should probably get away from the fire, that probably could have saved lives.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And listen, speaking of an official there yesterday talking about kids who may have been home alone in the midst of all this because the school was closed. Bill Weir, it's got to be hard to see all this firsthand, so thanks for being there with us and helping tell those stories.

For more information about how you can help Hawaii wildfire victims, please do go to cnn.com/impact. Lots of great options there. Or text Hawaii to 707070. That's 70, 70, 70 to donate.

And now, to the rear West Coast hurricane. A category four hurricane named Hilary. Its winds are now lashing Mexico. The U.S. will feel that storm soon. It could dump more than a year's worth of rain on three states, California, Nevada, and Arizona starting this week, including areas that don't normally get anywhere near this amount of rain.

CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers. He is in the weather center. Chad, not a typical place.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: No.

SCIUTTO: You see these kinds of storms come through. National Hurricane Center issued its first-ever tropical storm watch for California. What's happening, and when will it all start?

MYERS: You're right. Well, we hope some of the rain -- and I know this seems weird, but let me just explain myself. We hope some of the rain starts tomorrow afternoon because we don't want wind without a damp surface to blow across.

We don't want to experience what just happened in Lahaina with a wind event before the actual rain starts. So, we're kind of watching these arms, these outer bands try to feed up past Cabo. And eventually by tomorrow afternoon, likely even into Southern California.

And there it is. A tropical storm watch, the first ever for California period. There are hurricane warnings to the South because there will be hurricane conditions there.

But here's the deal with this storm. It is going to die rather quickly because it's going to go from 88 Degree water to 68 Degree water. And hurricanes don't like anything really below about 82. So when we get into this colder water, we know the storm is going to die off. It isn't going to be a hurricane. There could be some gusts but it isn't going to be a true hurricane when it gets up toward California.

It is going to rapidly de-intensify because there's your water, and there's your water. That -- try to swim in the Pacific Ocean off California without a wetsuit or go surfing, it's not very fun. It's very, very cold.

But we do have the real threat of how much rainfall could come down. Some spots, Jim, could pick up between seven and 10 inches of rainfall.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MYERS: Nowhere, especially the hills around Southern California can take that kind of rain without really having some bad outcomes.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It seems like every day we're talking about a never- before event or a worst-ever event.

MYERS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And I suppose we keep -- we'll keep on -- we'll keep on doing the same. Chad Myers, at the weather center, thanks so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Turning now to Georgia where lawyers for Donald Trump are engaged in talks with the Fulton County district attorney about the details of Trump's surrender on RICO charges. That is expected to go down next week. But CNN has learned the Secret Service has been on site for several weeks already prepping for a high-profile surrender.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's discuss with CNN's Sara Murray and CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers. Sara, first to you. Tell us about the secret service presence.

Yes. My colleague Ryan Young has been reporting that Secret Service has actually been around the Fulton County Jail for the last couple of weeks. And this is as jail officials, the Secret Service, the city of Atlanta try to get on the same page essentially about how a Trump surrender is going to look at this Fulton County Jail.

Obviously, if you're the Secret Service, you don't want to be ushering the former president in there for the first time without having gotten the lay of the land, understanding where he's going to be going through as far as the different rooms of the jail where, you know, he may be interacting with other people. And also how to keep him separate from the general jail population, which of course we expect to happen. So, this is the guide that we would expect. We would expect the Secret Service is not going to want to show up there blind with the former president of the United States.

[14:10:03] SANCHEZ: Yes, absolutely. Jennifer, to you. The deadline for Trump and his co-defendants to turn themselves in is a week from today at noon. Are you surprised no one has surrendered yet?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Really. I mean, it's not a very pleasant thing to go show up and you know do the formal arrest and have the charges formally lodged against you. So, I'm not surprised. They'll probably start trickling in at some point next week and through the week with the last of them showing up on Friday itself.

SANCHEZ: And, Jen, I'm curious about lower-level defendants. If they surrender, does that eliminate the chance that they could strike a plea deal?

RODGERS: No, not at all. This is just you know get in, get process, get the ball rolling, and then what the prosecutors will be doing because of course, they've charged 19 people. They need to thin that out before trial. And they probably want to develop some cooperators.

So, this is the time that they're currently strategizing and thinking about who likely knows what testimony can each defendant offer, and who they'll be reaching out to in terms of the lawyers, which they may not know, by the way. Some of these folks may not have lawyers who have appeared for them yet. So. as soon as they do, prosecutors will know who to contact about whether that person should come in and they can talk about cooperation.

SANCHEZ: And, Sara, I want to pivot to the timing of Trump's federal election subversion case because his attorneys apparently want that trial to start in April, not of next year but 2026.

MURRAY: Yes, quite a ways down the road. I mean, the Justice Department had asked for January of 2024. So, that gives you an idea of how far apart they are.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MURRAY: And, of course, it's going to be up to the judge to decide ultimately what the trial date is going to be in this case. But Trump's attorneys are arguing that one, he's got a lot of legal problems on his hands and on a schedule. And two, that there's a lot of discovery to go through in this case. 11 and a half million pages.

And I just want to read you a portion of their filings because it was a particularly colorful description of the amount of documentation they have to go to. They said. Even assuming we could begin reviewing the documents today, we would need to proceed at a pace of 99,762 pages per day to finish the government's initial production by its proposed date for jury selection. That is the entirety of Tolstoy's War and Peace cover to cover, 78 times a day, every day from now until jury selection.

SANCHEZ: That is quite a colorful entry. And, Jen, to you. What do you make of this disagreement? How likely is it that prosecutors will get their way and see a more close start date to the trial? RODGERS: Boris, we're going to see, I think at least one probably two trials next year before the election. The question is, which ones? I mean, the prosecutors are going to have to start talking to one another and sort out which trials are going first. It's just not going to happen without everyone getting on the same page. They just can't proceed in a vacuum.

So, I think we will see it. They're going to have to meet in the middle of 2026 is going to be a non-starter. But a couple of these trials are likely to happen after the election next year and into 2025 because there's just too much to do.

It's not as bad as they're making it out to be with the discovery. But for trials, is a lot to prepare for, especially for someone as busy as with a campaign schedule. So, they just need to get it going. I suspect the January six election interference case will probably take precedence and probably get the first trial slot in say, February, March of next year, and the rest will have to slot in behind that.

SANCHEZ: And, Jen, quickly. What if there's a disagreement among prosecutors about how to coordinate the order of these trials?

RODGERS: Yes, and there might be. They're just going to have to sort it out. I mean, unfortunately, there's no grand person above all of these people who can order them to do something.

But you know, I think in the end, Fani Willis is going to have to acknowledge that her trial is going to take too long. And jury selection will also take a long time. And she's going to have to fall behind the federal cases. So I think that that's what will ultimately happen.

SANCHEZ: We will keep our eyes on all of these different cases and obviously the 2024 presidential campaign in the backdrop. Jennifer Rogers, Sara Murray, thank you so much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Still ahead. He was just indicted along with former President Trump for trying to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. Now, exclusive CNN reporting reveals that Kenneth Chesebro was marching on Capitol grounds with conspiracy theorists Alex Jone on -- Jones on January six. We're going to walk you through the video that shows that.

But first, President Biden hosting the leaders of Japan and South Korea for a first-ever summit featuring all three nations. I'm going to speak with a key member of the House Intelligence and China Committees about the significance of that summit. It's all coming up next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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SCIUTTO: Happening this afternoon. President Biden hosting the leaders of South Korea and Japan. The first-ever trilateral summit with the U.S. and those two countries. The gathering in Camp David brings the two Asian powers together after decades of tension and mistrust.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not only the first summit I've hosted at Camp David. It's the first-ever standalone summit between the leaders of Japan and Republican Korea and the United States. And I can think of no better way, no better way to mark our new chapter of our trilateral cooperation than meeting here at Camp David. Our countries are stronger and the world would be safer as we stand together.

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SCIUTTO: Their common goal today, a show of unity and force in the face of a rising China and increasingly provocative North Korea as well. Joining us now. Republican Congressman Mike Gallagher of Wisconsin. He chairs the House Select Committee on China, also sits on both the Intelligence and Armed Services Committees. Thanks so much for taking the time this afternoon.

REP. MIKE GALLAGHER (R-WI): Thanks for -- thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: The U.S. stand against China is a relatively bipartisan issue, a rare one in Washington today. And that's part of this message today in this summit with the -- with South Korea and Japan. I wonder in your view, is the U.S. doing what it needs to counter China economically and militarily?

[14:20:18]

GALLAGHER: Well, let me first say when it comes to this summit. This is a massive positive step forward. And I applaud President Yoon and Prime Minister Kishida for putting aside historical sensitivities to come together for this historic meeting.

For decades, we've had bilateral alliances with Japan and South Korea. They've been important. They fostered security. But our ties have remained bilateral and our position has been weaker as a result.

Now, we're going to have a series of trilateral cooperative efforts. And I think it does nothing but enhance peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific, particularly as we think about the fact that a few weeks ago, we celebrated the 70th anniversary of the armistice, ending the Korean War, a war that claimed thousands of American lives and many more Korean lives, it's to remind us that we need to do everything possible to deter and prevent a war before it's too late.

To get to your direct question. I think on that issue, what we're not doing with a sense of urgency is surging hard power west of the International Dateline to put hard power in Xi Jinping's path so that he doesn't look across the Taiwan Strait and think he can make a move and achieve his lifelong ambition. That's really run-in -- run into a lot of bureaucratic logjam in the Pentagon and other agencies.

SCIUTTO: Yes. GALLAGHER: So, it's why we need to work in a bipartisan fashion in Congress to ensure that we're putting in place a deterrent posture that makes -- that convinces Xi that he cannot achieve that ambition.

SCIUTTO: On Taiwan, I hear two different scenarios. you hear of the danger, of course of a full-scale invasion. But increasingly, I hear warnings about something short of that, a suffocation strategy. Encircling Taiwan to economically strangle it, to threaten it into political surrender. Which do you view as more likely, and do you think that it's just a matter of time that one of those things just going to happen?

GALLAGHER: Well, I'll confess I focused mostly on the conventional threat of amphibious assault and military invasion. However, when I went to Taiwan a few months ago, someone said something that still haunts me, which is that you know, you may not be able to swallow a porcupine but you can starve it. And so, I left thinking we needed to pay more attention to the blockade scenario, the economic coercion scenario.

In fact, you can make a case that that sort of economic and cyber invasion of Taiwan has already begun. When the select committee on China that I chaired did a war game, in fact, one of the key findings we came away with was that while we have sort of the theory of the case when it comes to conventional and strategic deterrence i.e. military deterrence, we don't incorporate the economic and financial analysis. We don't incorporate what are the economic and financial weapons we are willing to use in order to prevent the invasion. And in some cases, treasury, commerce, and other non-DoD entities aren't even at the table when it comes to war gaming out the scenario.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GALLAGHER: So, we need to do a better job of that. We have some legislation that would force that. But that's the analysis that we haven't been paying as much attention to traditionally.

SCIUTTO: For decades, Americans have been hearing about China's inexorable rise. And the numbers have backed that up, you know. Near double-digit growth for a long time.

But now, the trend lines in the opposite direction. You've got a whole host of negative economic indicators there. There's talk of peak China that it's already past it's -- the peak of its economic growth. I wonder. Is China a greater or lesser threat to the U.S. as it weakens economically?

GALLAGHER: Well, my concern -- and all of this is a working hypothesis.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GALLAGHER: I cannot fully prove it. Is that as Xi Jinping confronts those near-term economic issues, but really confronts the looming demographic issues that will become most acute in the 2030s, he's going to hit an economic -- a demographic buzzsaw that no society in history has really dealt with. I think that could actually make him more aggressive in the near term.

He himself is 69 or 70 years old. So, if you believe as I do, that he's serious about achieving that lifelong ambition of taking Taiwan, I think the next five years are the most dangerous. It's what I've called the window of maximum danger.

It's also when we have some major defense issues that we're dealing with, some big bills that are coming due, and our Navy continues to get smaller and smaller, it could potentially bottom out at 279 ships in 2027. And that's, of course, the target date, Xi Jinping has set for his military to be ready to invade Taiwan. So, I think he actually becomes more aggressive in the near term.

SCIUTTO: You have been consistent in terms of standing up not just for Taiwan, but also Ukraine in the face of Russia's invasion. As you know some of your fellow Republicans have wavered in their support or even publicly opposed U.S. military support for Ukraine. You've got a GOP, the first presidential primary debate coming up next week. Do you want to hear a unified party position saying we stand with Ukraine against Russia and we'll do whatever it takes to help them defend themselves?

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GALLAGHER: Well, I certainly want to hear where the candidates stand on the issue. Within the idea of supporting Ukraine, there can be reasonable disagreements, right? You know, I, for example, don't support a blank check, as in, nobody gets a blank check, not even our national security agencies. But I think we can -- need to continue to provide lethal clinical support to the Ukrainians and put ourselves in a position to shape the outcome on the ground.

And I think it's not logical to separate the issue of what's happening in Eastern Europe completely from what's happening in the Indo-Pacific because we, of course, have a no-limits partnership between Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. So, I guess all I'm asking for when the debate comes to Wisconsin next week, is that we just see where the candidates stand. And again, they can disagree about a few issues, but at least my view is that we can't abandon the cause completely in Ukraine because it has an impact on what happens in the Indo-Pacific, which is our priority theater.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Well, Congressman, Mike Gallagher, thanks so much for joining us. And apologies to your Green Bay Packers that my Jets took Aaron Rodgers.

GALLAGHER: Oh my gosh. Well, you're lucky you're in the AFC. I care less about the AFC.

SCIUTTO: I hear you. We'll look forward to having you back. Thanks so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: So, he's accused of being the architect of the 2020 fake electors plot and he's one of the 19 people charged in the Georgia indictment. Now, CNN has exclusive reporting revealing where Ken Chesebro was on January six. Plus, the lengthy sentences the Justice Department is now seeking for leaders of the Proud Boys convicted of sedition after the attack on the Capitol. CNN NEWS CENTRAL is back in just a few minutes.

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