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California Hit With Historic Rain, Floods, Mudslides, a Quake; Trump, 18 Co-Defendants Facing Friday Deadline to Surrender; Trump Confirms He Will Skip First GOP Presidential Debate. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 21, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: And the 18 alleged co-conspirators charged in Georgia must surrender by the end of this week.

[10:00:07]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden is headed to Maui and he's set to meet with survivors of the wildfires and also the first responders a more than 800 people are still missing there.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, rushing floodwaters shutting down major roads leaving no way in or out across much of Southern California. Hilary is the first tropical storm in more than 25 years to move through the state breaking all kinds of records. Los Angeles recorded the rainy summer day in at least 150 years. Palm Springs got a full year's worth of rain in 24 hours. Its 911 system is still down. There were mudslides in the San Bernardino Mountains. Look at that. And now the storm that did this is moving north.

CNN's Stephanie Elam joins us from Cathedral City, just east of Palm Springs. Stephanie, what a muddy, icky mess behind you.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have a nice pun for you, John. It's called a meeting of the muds. Take a look. You can see the two different kinds of muds. Believe it or not, I'm standing on a road, a major road going in and out of the Palm Springs area here.

This is what is going on. They are starting to clean it up now that the sun has come out. But, look, there are two cars over here that have been stuck since we were have in darkness. And now you can see how high that mud is up on their wheels. And then over to the right, there is this little Volkswagen. Some very respectful, thoughtful individual just went flying through the mud on the wrong side of the road to get on to this side and completely splashed our Photojournalist Mike Love, who is now completely covered in mud. But that is how far she got. That's what she's ended up here.

These are the reasons why they're saying schools are closed. These are the reasons why they're saying people will not be able to get in and around into Palm Springs, because out in the distance there, I just walked all the way up there, that would be towards Interstate 10. There are Mac trucks, there are cars twisted off to the side off the road up there. It is completely blocked right now with the vehicles and mud and running water that is still finding its way off the road and down off into the wash. All of their washes are full.

When you looking at this now that the sun has come up, it is almost unbelievable how much of a mess is out here. And when you put your foot into some of these mud, they just came through and plowed here, so it is not as sticky, but, you know, a couple of times, I thought I was going to lose my boot because it is so sticky. And that what is trapping the cars out here. And think about it, they were doing this in the darkness.

You can see it up there what mess it has been left behind. I sent in the video to show you of just how bad it is out here. It is unbelievable now that the sun is up here, John.

BERMAN: It really is gross. And we saw that frontend loader working behind you. I've seen snowplows. I'm not sure I have ever seen mud plows there before. And that was like mud plowing, Steph.

ELAM: Also mud plowing in August. Just think about that. This is the rainiest day they have ever had in one day in Palm Springs for 100 years of records. And it is very odd to have that much rain in Southern California, let alone in August.

BERMAN: All right. Stephanie Elam, keep your boots on. My advice, duct tape. It works wonders if you need it. Thank you very much for your reporting. Kate?

ELAM: You would know. You would know.

BOLDUAN: Let's get the latest now from Cathedral City, actually right where Stephanie Elam is reporting, Cathedral City's fire chief, Michael Contreras, is joining us now. Chief, thanks so much for coming in.

Stephanie Elam, from where she is, as the sun is coming, she's seeing just the muddy mess that is all over some of the streets there. What are your crews seeing out there right now?

CHIEF MICHAEL CONTRERAS, CATHEDRAL CITY, CALIFORNIA FIRE DEPARTMENT: Yes, we are right in the middle of that right now. We're in all areas around that muddy area and that intersection right there that had a combination of what we call a debris flow. So, a large amount of the mud and sand moving into that area, which is what trapped the cars there. We were able to extricate and rescue seven people there.

So, now, we are going to go house-to-house and making sure that the people that want to get out can get out. We have just called in a dozer, or bulldozer, and they are going to go to and clear the neighborhoods so those people can get out. But right now, they are trapped for all intents and purposes.

BOLDUAN: Talk to me about that, because the mayor of Palm Springs, which is near-ish by, was saying that they don't even have access in and out of Palm Springs. It is completely blocked right now. How would you describe the situation as the storm itself has moved past what is now left behind that you are seeing in Cathedral City?

[10:05:06]

CONTRERAS: Yes, there's a lot of destruction, right? And Mother Nature clearly put her mark on us over the last 48 hours, and that's what you're seeing with that mud. And it's a combination of mud and sand that makes it really hard to get through.

The water, for the most part, has dissipated. It's drained off. It's moved out into the drains. But what we're really dealing with is that excess mud that is a lot like quicksand. It's really heavy and takes a lot of effort. So, if you're elderly or you're a young person, it's really hard to get through that. And so that's our main focus right now, is to clear the roads.

Right now, we have the I-10 freeway, which is the main thoroughfare through both Palm Springs and Cathedral City. Our off ramps are on both theirs and ours are limited because of the mud. So, it's really about clearing the roads and getting access and then assisting Caltrans with getting the I-10 open in both directions.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And, Chief, we had seen reports that the 911 phone lines were down in your city. Is that still the case? What's happening?

CONTRERAS: No. What happened there is there was no 911 calls missed. There was with the carrier. They had an issue with flooding. But we prepare for this all the times, both fire and police, and we were able to transition, and we sent that out, and we moved those lines over to what we call the business lines. It's a different number, but it still comes through the 911 system.

So, again, we were prepared for it. We do routinely.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that's good to hear. You had mentioned that you think that folks are essentially trapped because of this mud/sand mixture mess that's left behind. I mean, what's your best advice for people right now? You've got crews out. People are going to need rescued today. But what's your best advice for folks?

CONTRERAS: Yes. Right now, if they don't need anything, if they don't have -- well, let me back up. It's the same thing that we told people coming into the storm, right? If you don't need to be on the road, don't leave your house. Get the supplies you need and stay warm in your house.

That's kind of the same thing we're saying now. If you don't need to get out, let it give us some time. We'll get the tractors, we'll get the manpower, and we'll clear the streets. And then that way it will be in a lot more organized fashion.

What our biggest concern is that our people are still out there, both from all city departments, from Public Works to facilities, the Building Department that may have to red tag some buildings. And when we're out there doing our job and people are in a hurry, it puts us at risk. So, if they can just stay home and give us a little time, and then we'll go from there.

BOLDUAN: Chief, thanks so much for jumping on this morning. I really appreciate your time. Sara?

SIDNER: This morning, this road to the jail in Georgia being watched closely. Well, that's not the road, but those are the people that are charged. But it's because former President Trump and his 18 accused co-conspirators have to pass through this road that you're seeing now there to be booked on criminal charges they face in connection to their alleged scheme to overturn the 2020 election.

All the defendants, by the way, have until noon on Friday to voluntarily turn themselves in to the Fulton County Jail.

We now have a bit of insight on Donald Trump's timing. A senior law enforcement source tells CNN he expects the former president to show up Thursday or Friday. Fingerprints and a mug shot are expected.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is live outside the court in Atlanta. What should we be expecting today? Are we hearing anything else about timing?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, there is work to be done before Donald Trump turns himself over to be arrested at the jail here in Fulton County, Georgia. And that work to be done is very likely to occur over here at the courthouse in Fulton County.

We've already seen at least one prosecutor working on this case with the district attorney, Fani Willis. He was assembling inside the office earlier today with some other prosecutors. And so we are waiting to see if there are going to be lawyers showing up today that represent defendants in this case, specifically Donald Trump's lawyers, to try and negotiate some sort of terms of release so that the arrest process can go smoothly.

We expect that because it's very likely that many of the people, or at least some of the more high-profile people in this indictment that the Georgia state prosecutors have brought against Donald Trump and 18 others, that those people are going to want to make sure their arrest goes very smoothly because they do have to go inside a jail and one that has not had a history of having the greatest conditions inside even for a jail, which is a tough place to be no matter what.

[10:10:13]

Here is retired Lieutenant Charles Rambo from the Fulton County Sheriff's Office, which runs that jail. Here's what he had to say about how this circumstance might be a little different than any other defendant who would be going in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES RAMBO, RETIRED LIEUTENANT, FULTON COUNTY, SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Just from my own experiences in dealing with dignitaries and high- profile persons who come into jail, it's best to just get those persons booked in as rapidly as possible and get them released because you don't want the jail to become more of an international theater that it has become here recently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So, that attention that this jail has garnered is because the Justice Department has been looking into the conditions at that jail that it may have some structural unsoundness, that there is filth and insects, then there has also been reports of violence inside. And so when all of these defendants, including Donald Trump with his Secret Service detail, go into the jail, none of them are going to want to spend that much time there.

So, they want to get their term set so that the arrest can go as smoothly as possible but there could be lines. There are 19 of them. There's already been 30 people who are not related to this case who've been booked in the jail just this morning so far. And so we are waiting to see how the week is going to play out exactly what the timing will be still.

SIDNER: Yes. And this could be the first case where there is a mug shot of the former president. So, we will wait to see how this all goes down but the sheriff says he's going to be treated like everyone else. We will watch and wait to see who the first few people are to turn themselves in. They can do it at any time between now and noon on Friday.

Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for your reporting. John?

BERMAN: All right. With us now, former U .S. Attorney Michael Moore. Counselor, great to see you. One of Donald Trump's co-defendants, Mark Meadows, has filed a motion to have his case outright dismissed. First of all, he's asked to have it removed from state to federal court, a separate motion to have it dismissed. And the theory, his theory of the case, is it's because he was working as a federal employee when he did the actions he is accused with and he says he can't be charged under state law for actions as a federal employee. How much water does that argument hold?

You may have to hold up signs, Michael. We can't hear your voice. We're going to see if Michael -- oh, it's great. It's so much better. We can hear you. You don't need to use sock puppets.

Tell me that how -- tell me about the theory of the case for Mark Meadows.

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes. I was saying, I think these motions really go hand in hand with each other. They are not. No big surprise that they were filed. The motion to dismiss follows the motion to transfer the case. And, basically, both of the motions deal with whether or not he was a federal employee doing his federal job.

The motion to dismiss that he's most recently filed is based upon a supremacy clause of the Constitution. And what that basically says is that a state cannot prosecute a federal employee for doing their job that's outlined by federal law. And he's arguing that because I was the chief of staff for the president of the United States, there were things that I was tasked to do, like make calls, set appointments, do those types of administrative, ministerial tasks and functions that some of which are included in the indictment as overt acts in furthest with the conspiracy. So, the court is going to look at that and weigh out whether or not that's the case.

I really think that probably he will not see the indictment dismissed at this point. But he may give sort of an added nudge to the judge to move it on to and allow the motion to transfer because that burden of proof, that argument is simply that did he have a plausible claim that he was operating as a federal employee. And I don't think there's anybody that can say he was not operating as the chief of staff at the direction of Trump.

So, that motion probably has a little bit better chance of surviving at this point. But the motion to dismiss may rear its head again a little bit further into the litigation.

BERMAN: But it does get to the fundamental split between what it means to be a federal employee and/or work for a political candidate. There are laws that deal with this for people in Washington. There's the Hatch Act, which says what you can do as a federal employee and what you can do working on behalf of politics.

So, the question is, was what Mark Meadows did. Was it as a White House chief of staff, an employee of the federal government, or was he working at that moment when he made those calls as a political operative? Would a court want to make that key distinction this early in a case?

[10:15:02]

MOORE: Well, and that's why I don't think you're going to see that motion granted at this point. I think it may come back later on. But the argument he's making is that the president is the president 100 percent of every hour of every day. The chief of staff is the chief of staff of the president 100 percent of every hour of every day. You're on call. You've got to respond. You've got to be available. And that the president is entitled to have advice without fear of that advice suddenly being called criminal attempts to commit a RICO violation or something like that.

So, that's going to be something the judge has to weigh. He may say, look, we're going to hear this a little bit longer. I'm going to hear what evidence the government wants to put on to decide whether or not I think you fit into this niche.

There's not a lot of Supreme Court law, frankly. I mean, it's a centuries-old proposition, as you can gather, is a constitutional provision. But it will be something that's going to wind its way, I'm certain, to the Supreme Court at some time because of these unique circumstances.

You've got a president and chief of staff, and the argument will be that I was simply trying to inquire about the validity of the election. And as a chief of staff of the highest federal ranking federal official in the nation, I'm entitled to do that, especially when I'm directed to do it by my boss. And so that's going to be the argument he makes in support of his motion.

BERMAN: You're absolutely right. Not a lot of case law on this because there was a peaceful transfer of power and you had incumbents concede every other election in U.S. history.

Michael Moore, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much, and hear you. Kate?

BOLDUAN: No need for sock puppets at least today.

Coming, up for us, former President Trump confirms he is not going to show up for the first Republican primary debate. What he is now teasing about the future debates as new numbers come in showing just how dominant Donald Trump is right now in Iowa.

Plus, President Biden headed to Maui today to see the devastation firsthand, to hear from survivors of the tragedy and also to promise that the federal government is there to help for the long haul with a road to recovery that will take years.

We'll be back.

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[10:20:00]

SIDNER: Wednesday is the big day for Republican presidential hopefuls. They will take the debate stage for the first time, but someone is going to be missing, the frontrunner. By far, Donald Trump is ahead, but he says he's not going to be there. Why? He says that voters already know who he is and what he's done.

So, now, the question remains, will the other candidates be able to capitalize on his absence and get a little juice for themselves?

Joining us now is Sarah Matthews, former deputy press secretary for Donald Trump. Thank you so much for being here.

We're looking at all of the candidates who are going to be -- well, actually, not all of them will be on the debate stage. Some of them have not qualified, but there's a few of them there who have qualified, the most recent, Asa Hutchinson.

I want to ask you what your thoughts are on this poll that has come out. It is from Iowa. We just had the big state fair where everyone came and they tried to argue their case to the Iowa voters. And taking a look at this poll, Donald Trump is far and away. He's double digits away from every single other candidate there. It seems clear that the indictments just keep fueling people's support for Donald Trump. Why do you think that is?

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I think that the American people, and especially Republican primary voters just have indictment fatigue. Obviously, I think that the first indictment coming down, which was the case in New York with Alvin Bragg, was the least strong of the cases and seemed to be a little bit politically motivated.

And so then when these other indictments dropped, people just assumed that they were politically motivated, even though they're not. You look at the facts of these cases, specifically the documents case, I think, is one of the ones that is the most strong. And it's very cut and dry that Donald Trump broke the law.

Obviously, he's going to have his day in court, but it's hard to get past it when you hear him on an audiotape showing off a classified document to people when he knew it was not classified.

But at the end of the day, this doesn't really seem to make a difference to Republican primary voters, and he continues to be dominant in the polls, as demonstrated by this Iowa Poll.

All right, I want to ask you about what we heard on State of the Union this weekend, where Republican Bill Cassidy said, look, in his opinion, Donald Trump should get out of the race. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I think the charge that seems most likely, I mean, seems almost a slam dunk, is the one related to mishandling of classified documents.

If that is proven, then we may have a candidate for president who has been convicted of a crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right. So, you hear him saying, look, this candidate, it could be a real problem. He'd be convicted of a crime, and still the American people will then have to decide if they want him in office. Do you think that the conviction will have the exact same effect if that is what happens as the indictments have on those base of the Republican Party?

MATTHEWS: I don't know. I think that a conviction is different than an indictment. Obviously, I think that no one wants to have a president who has been convicted of a crime, such as the one outlined in the classified documents case.

[10:25:06]

And you look at the facts of that case, this was 100 percent self- inflicted on Donald Trump's part. So, obviously, him and his team are going to say that this was a weaponization of the DOJ. But at the end of the day, if he had just given the documents back, he wouldn't find himself in this predicament when it pertains to that case in particular.

And so I agree with Senator Cassidy. In a perfect world, I would love for Donald Trump to drop out. I think that Republicans have a stacked bench of candidates that we could put up in a general election who could roundly defeat Joe Biden. But the problem is it doesn't appear like that's going to happen. And I think that there's too much at stake if we risk nominating Donald Trump, who has already lost to Joe Biden once before.

SIDNER: Just quickly, in your opinion, and I know this is hard, but in your opinion, who do you think is going to come out the front row when we see this debate on Wednesday?

MATTHEWS: I don't know if much is going to change, honestly, in terms of the polls. Donald Trump not appearing in the debate, he is obviously a draw for viewership.

And so we'll see how many Americans tune in. I still think there are going to be millions of Americans. But it is going to be tough for these other candidates to make their case for why Americans should support them over Donald Trump when Donald Trump isn't there.

And I wish that Donald Trump would show up. But it appears he's too scared to defend his own record against his own opponents.

SIDNER: All right. Sarah Matthews, thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate it. John?

BERMAN: All right, President Biden, on his way to Maui shortly, as more than 800 people still remain unaccounted for.

In a brand new poll out of Iowa, it shows historic margins in that state. So, how does that shift debate strategy for Wednesday night?

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[10:30:00]