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Trump, Several Co-Defendants Expected To Negotiate Bond Terms With Fulton County DA's Office Today; Trump Confirms He Will Skip First GOP Debate; Lawyer John Eastman Agrees To $100K Bond. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired August 21, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Deadline to surrender. Donald Trump and his 18 co-defendants in Georgia must turn themselves in to the Fulton County Jail this week. What we're learning about when they will actually show up in Atlanta as the former president says he will not show up to this week's GOP debate?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: A wet and muddy mess in California. The Southwest cleaning up from rain and flooding after a historic tropical storm. We are tracking the impacts and the lingering threat.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And soon, President Biden will arrive in Hawaii to see the aftermath of deadly wildfires. Some residents criticizing the official response so far with hundreds of people still missing on Maui. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: We begin this hour in Georgia. Today, Donald Trump's defense attorneys are expected to negotiate his bond terms with the Fulton County DA's office. Trump and his 18 co-defendants have until noon Friday to turn themselves in on charges tied to his attempts to overturn the election in Georgia. We are closely watching two key sites in Atlanta, the Fulton County Courthouse, that's where those negotiations will happen, and the jail where the defendants will have to show up and be booked.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is outside the courthouse. Katelyn, what more do we know about these talks and about how long they'll take?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, we're expecting these negotiations between the prosecutors here in Georgia and Donald Trump's defense lawyers to happen this afternoon. And that there may be other lawyers for other defendants, some of those or maybe all of those 18 to be coming in or somehow negotiating with the prosecutors in this case. What they have to negotiate is how these arrests are going to work because Donald Trump, he is going to be arrested here.

He has now been indicted. He ultimately will have to enter his initial pleading very likely of not guilty, same with the other defendants. But that can't happen until their lawyers come in and talk to the prosecutors about getting bail terms set, and how these people will be released if there are any specific terms that the prosecutors want.

Maybe travel restrictions, maybe money that they might have to put up. And so we're waiting to see some evidence that these negotiations are taking place here. We have a large team spread out around here at the courthouse complex awaiting this development to see how it goes.

There is a pretty heightened level of security here. But it really isn't clear yet when these negotiations would be finalized. And also, we're watching to see if Donald Trump is going to be treated like any other criminal defendant in the system here in Georgia. The sheriff here previously said at the beginning of August that any defendant would be treated the same no matter who it might be.

But at the end of the day, Donald Trump isn't just any defendant. He is the former president with Secret Service protection for life himself. And whenever he goes over to the jail, he would be very different than many of the people who would be held there in that he comes in with his own security. He might not need to be mugshot because he's so recognizable. But that will be for later in the week. We're waiting to see exactly what emerges from these bond talks when we can confirm that they happen.

SCIUTTO: Yes, among the many questions. Mugshot? Fingerprints? We'll see. Katelyn Polantz outside the courthouse there, thanks so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's expand the conversation out with CNN Chief Legal Analyst and former federal prosecutor Laura Coates. So, Laura, we got to update that intro because you're also the newest CNN primetime anchor at 11:00. Look forward to that. Congrats, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

COATES: You're such a sweetheart. Thank you for mentioning it.

SANCHEZ: All right. So, let's get to it. Donald Trump and his 18 co- defendants sort of turn themselves in later this week.

COATES: Yes.

SANCHEZ: What are you anticipating?

COATES: A bit of a circus. A bit of a parade of unexpected people who normally would not be seen in this venue. You're talking about Rudy Giuliani, you're talking about Mark Meadows, you're talking about Donald Trump and you have a host of other people, including a lot of attorneys, including Sidney Powell and beyond. So, you're going to see something that's very unexpected and uncharted.

[14:05:14]

But the key here is to recognize that some of the things you might expect in high-profile defendants might not be present here because when you are indicted in this particular jurisdiction and across the country, you ought to be treated equally. A lot of people have what equal justice under the law recognized the same way. Now, of course, Donald Trump stands in stark contrast for the reasons that Katelyn talks about. I mean, no one else is going to ask Secret Service with them.

SANCHEZ: Right.

COATES: But as far as the details as we now know them, it appears you're going to follow every protocol that they normally have for any defendant.

SANCHEZ: Well, on that note, because of this is uncharted, it leads me to a question about a mug shot. Because we've seen Donald Trump take every legal battle that he's had and sort of Kung Fu it into an advantage. We see his poll numbers go up. We see his fundraising go up. I wouldn't doubt that they would take a mug shot and then start making T-shirts or paraphernalia.

COATES: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Does that at all go into the considerations over that decision?

COATES: I'm sure politically it's advantageous as he is already. I just want one more indictment then, I can win this thing. Well, be careful what you wish for Mr. President because you had that one more indictment.

Now, you've had a lot of other famous people with mugshots, Nick Nolte, Frank Sinatra, Wesley Snipes. I mean, time DeLay, I think had one as well. I mean, you have a lot of people who've had mug shots before, so it's not unheard of.

But the notion of him having one could be very well used as a kind of campaign propaganda. A kind of saying, listen, his whole platform has been it is me against the world, they actually want to get to you, but I'm standing in the way. So, really, this weaponized government is doing just this. So, that could be a possibility.

But really, mug shots are supposed to be a part of the entire booking process for really two reasons. One, to identify the person. We already know who he is. But of course, we know other famous people as well. And number two, as a part of the system and a part of what the track record has been.

He has now three other indictments. They certainly have a record of him. They know where he is. They didn't probably have his fingerprints already. But still, he may not be afforded all these luxuries of saying hey, you know what, it might be off-putting? Well, he has now indictments.

SANCHEZ: That Nick Nolte mug shot will go down in the history --

COATES: Oh, yes. SANCHEZ: If you haven't, google it.

COATES: You mean, with the hair?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

COATES: It's crazy. I remember it.

SANCHEZ: It's special. You mentioned something that I wanted to dig deeper into. Be careful what you wish for. For most defendants, they're worried about federal charges.

COATES: Yes.

SANCHEZ: But even if he's elected president, the state charges are not something he could freeze or get rid of. Those potentially carry more weight.

COATES: Oh, that is going to be baggage that will cover and carry into the White House if he were to be elected the president of the United States. I've heard people have mentioned things like this is an insurance policy for Jack Smith having Fani Willis's indictment. I don't see it that way.

These are two separate sovereigns. Now, if they have complementary laws that are at issue or complementary indictments, that is merely a coincidence. But it's not an insurance policy that one actually coincides according with the other.

It's on more saying, look, a state prosecution will stand as it is. There's a reason for that. Fani Willis and Fulton County and Georgia have a vested interest in how their elections are run, and how they are undermined.

We know the Constitution, our Founding Fathers, our laws, give our states the power to regulate and oversee their election. So, in some respects, if Georgia and the allegations are true, that would all be Georgia state territory and a federal prosecution will have to stay on its own lane.

So, there are very interesting reasons to look at both of these. But at the end of the day, a state prosecution overseeing state voting laws is going to be extremely important in how elections are run from here on out. But the federal charges do not give a side eye to him, Boris, because they're very significant. But if he is the president, he could poopoo that and do away with it.

SANCHEZ: Yes, side eye for me.

COATES: No side-eye.

SANCHEZ: We should also note, a slew of Georgia officials from --

COATES: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- the Governor and Lieutenant Governor, the Secretary of State have all said that the elections there were fair and free, and there was no supposed --

COATES: And these are Republicans too.

SANCHEZ: Precisely. Precisely. So, onto the question of Mark Meadows, Trump's former Chief of Staff. He's now essentially trying to get a federal court to intervene in the state charges, to dismiss them basically saying that, hey, I was just carrying out my duty as Chief of Staff following orders.

COATES: Right.

SANCHEZ: Does that have legs? Could that stand up in court?

COATES: Well, he will argue that in court but the criteria (INAUDIBLE) removed is that one, you had to be acting under your color of office. Meaning what you were doing was actually a part of your duties. Think about it. A federal office looking at the actual state elections are already at odds with one another for the reasons I just said.

SANCHEZ: Right.

COATES: The other aspect of this, of course, is the jury you might get. You might want demographic-wise. Maybe the District of Georgia the North as opposed to the predict -- primarily democratic voting Fulton County perhaps as your motivation for that. That's jury shopping though and we don't really want that in our system of justice. Also, to prove that you actually could be removed, remember, get approved to the judge.

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And that federal judge is far more seasoned, frankly, than the new judge that's really been assigned and appointed by -- that nominated by Governor Brian Kemp more recently that has the case right now. It would put the prosecutors in a bit of unfamiliar, uncharted federal territory, although they are, you know, able to do both. But there's a really a rock and a hard place.

Federal courts are not meant for the faint of heart. The laws the evidentiary, burden all that's going to be very, very important. So, if you choose that it might be out of the frying pan and into the fire. Either way, you have to prove you actually have a reason to get there. It can't just be I don't feel like being in state court.

SANCHEZ: Laura Coates, appreciate the expertise.

COATES: Nice to see you.

SANCHEZ: As always, look forward to seeing her at 11:00. Thanks.

COATES: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

SANCHEZ: Brianna? KEILAR: Donald Trump will be heading to the Fulton County jail this week but confirmed he is not going to the first GOP debate. What a Super PAC supporting the former president is focusing their attention on instead. And President Biden is bound for Hawaii to survey wildfire devastation and to meet survivors. We are live on Maui where hundreds of people are still missing, next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL

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KEILAR: Donald Trump says that he will skip the first Republican debate on Wednesday while a Super PAC that is backing him is trying to skip right to the general election. Pro-Trump MAGA incorporated releasing a new TV ad today hitting President Biden on the economy. It's the second Trump versus Biden ad that the group has put out in two weeks.

CNN's Alayna Treene is near Trump's Bedminster golf club with more on this. Elena, what are you hearing about the Trump campaign strategy?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna, they're clearly trying to set up a contrast directly between the former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden and make this seem like a pivot toward a general -- a general election strategy rather than focusing on the primary.

Now, the ad itself is really hitting on the big picture themes that I know that the former president's team wants not only voters to focus on, but wants the former president to focus on on as well themes like the economy, China, the border, and crime, all messaging that they think can help him win, both in a primary and a potential general.

Now, I'm also have had many conversations with Donald Trump's team over the last few days and hours. And I know that Donald Trump, both privately and publicly has been boasting about his commanding lead in the polls and pointing to them as some of his reasoning for why he thinks he can just skip that debate on Wednesday.

And remember, while all of his Republican rivals are currently preparing to take the stage in Milwaukee, Donald Trump won't be there. And so, this is kind of where their posture is right now. They're focusing on a general but of course, again, this is very early on in the race, the primary elections are a far way away. And a lot can change between now and then especially as you have all of his legal troubles hovering around this.

And of course, Donald Trump is expected to head to Georgia this week and surrender. And it's still unclear what these legal troubles will do and how they'll play out on the campaign down the line.

KEILAR: Yes, Alayna Treene, live for us in Bedminster, New Jersey. You mentioned those legal troubles. We are following those as well. I do want to head now to Fulton County, which is where our Katelyn Polantz is with some breaking news. What can you tell us, Katelyn? POLANTZ: We do have the first of the bond agreements of these 19 criminal defendants in the state of Georgia related to the 2020 election and the aftermath working around Donald Trump. The first one that we can see in the paperwork on what has been agreed to is for John Eastman, a lawyer who worked for Trump as an elections lawyer and became quite a prominent name in arranging with fake electors and other people.

His bond? $100,000. That's for the nine different counts that he faces here in Georgia that he will be arrested for, that those bail terms are set. He also will have to be arraigned before a judge or waive his arraignment on a piece of paper and enter his pleading of not guilty. That's what we expect John Eastman to do.

But some of the additional terms here, it's not just money that has to be put up either a percentage or the full amount in cash if he so chooses, if he doesn't want to use a bail bonding firm. He also is ordered not to have any communications with other defendants in this case or with any possible witnesses in this case about the facts of this case. So, that was all of the things around the 2020 election that you would have been doing for Donald Trump.

We're going to be watching to see if there are other consent bonds that are made between these defense lawyers one by one and the prosecutor's office. And we do believe there are negotiations going on throughout the day, even this afternoon, even for Donald Trump and his lawyers working with the prosecutors here in Georgia.

KEILAR: And just go through -- a little bit, of course, just to refresh people's memories of who John Eastman is, Katelyn.

POLANTZ: Yes. John Eastman is -- has become one of the most central figures in what happened after the election. He was an elections attorney for Donald Trump. He had a letter saying he was coming aboard the Trump campaign. And then he'd became someone who was pushing these ideas not just of using fake electors, but also the idea that Mike Pence and others in Congress could block the election results. And he was moving that forward.

We actually have seen quite a lot about him before we've seen his e- mails. A judge previously, totally separately in a lawsuit. In the House investigation previously, there was a judge that released his e- mails to the House, which became a crucial part of some of the facts of this case and all of the other investigations around January 6.

And that judge when he had looked at what John Eastman had done with Donald Trump, said yes, it did look as if these two men were trying to advance some sort of crime. Now, we have Johnny's been charged alongside Donald Trump in this case. We also have him in the federal case related to January six, as a co-conspirator. And so, his bond term, $100,000. That is a steep price as he faces these charges to remain free and not have to await a trial in jail.

KEILAR: Certainly is. He is such a key player as we monitor this development. Katelyn Polantz, live for us from Georgia, thank you. Jim? SCIUTTO: All right. Let's discuss some more, the politics with CNN Politics Commentators, Alice Stewart, and Maria Cardona. Good to have you both.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Great to be here to be here.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.

SCIUTTO: First, let's look at some of this polling in Iowa. Trump with a big lead. I want to ask you just as a -- as a devil's advocate for a moment.

The thing about Iowa is that second-choice votes matter, you know. If you -- if your first-choice candidate doesn't make it, then you can switch to another candidate. Is it possible that even if Trump wins, a viable alternative might emerge from this that consolidates some of that non-Trump vote?

STEWART: It's completely possible for that to happen. And that's the beauty of Iowa is it's not necessarily there to pick the winner for the nomination. It's there to winnow the field.

And what you're talking about there, Jim, is a key part of this poll. Ann Selzer, who puts on this poll is loved and loathed amongst campaigns because she understands Iowa power politics and how it works.

SCIUTTO: Right.

STEWART: And what you're referring to is what they call the Iowa footprint. And as caucus-goers, you can go in and you said you can pick your first or second choice, and they're still looking at it. But what this poll does, it asks people, what is your number one choice, your number two choice, and your third choice. And that is the Iowa footprint they look at. With these numbers, Donald Trump has 63, Ron DeSantis 61.

SCIUTTO: That's interesting.

STEWART: So, the Iowa caucus process in the footprint is not as great for Donald Trump as the original numbers show. Ron DeSantis is really nipping at his heels. And the Iowa caucus process being unique as it is is beneficial to someone other than Trump.

SCIUTTO: That's notable. And it's interesting too when you look at history, right? Reagan, George HW Bush, and by the way, Trump in 2016, lost the Iowa caucus.

CARDONA: Yes.

STEWART: Right.

SCIUTTO: So went on to get -- to get the nomination. I wonder, Maria Cardona.

CARDONA: Yes. SCIUTTO: Are Democrats silently hoping for Trump to be the nominee?

CARDONA: I -- you know, that's a good question. And I've heard both things. Both yes, because clearly, he is somebody that Joe Biden already beat. And I believe that if Trump is the nominee, as well as other Republican strategists, believe this too --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARDONA: -- which is why they're trying to find somebody else desperately, that Joe Biden will beat him again. It will, by no means be easy. But I also believe that no matter who is the nominee, if it's not Donald Trump, and that's a big if, I believe that Joe Biden will beat that person as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARDONA: Again, not easy. We cannot take anything for granted because we live in a super-polarized divided country.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARDONA: But the fact is, is that every single candidate who has any possibility of making it out as the nominee is supporting an extremist MAGA agenda that the vast majority of the American people do not agree with. And what is so harmful for the Republicans as a party is that they have to be all in. They have to promise that they will absolutely support this extremist MAGA agenda in order to win the nomination. But that agenda is what is anathema to the vast majority of the American people, including independent voters, which they need to -- (INAUDIBLE)

SCIUTTO: OK. Alice, I have the sense you want to pipe in.

STEWART: If I can just clarify one point that my good friend Maria made, it is not the extreme MAGA agenda in an electorate that would be taking on Joe Biden. Part of what this Republican Party is doing and what we're seeing with the RNC in this debate, asking all of those participating in this debate to sign the loyalty pledge. This is not just a loyalty pledge to support the nominee, but it's a beat Biden pledge.

The Republican Party is going to galvanize together as we get a nominee to beat Biden and beat these policies that are causing the economy to be the way it is. Safety and security for the American people to be at a place where they don't like.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

STEWART: And if you want to run on the economy, that's unfortunate because the American people aren't feeling good about the economy.

CARDONA: Well, that's --

SCIUTTO: We should note that the current front-runner has not signed that pledge. CARDONA: Right. That guy.

SCIUTTO: The guy named Donald J. Trump.

STEWART: Anyone.

CARDONA: That's exactly right.

SCIUTTO: Is there any credible race that's quiet behind the scenes among Democrats for an alternative to Joe Biden?

CARDONA: Absolutely not. No.

SCIUTTO: Are you sure about that?

CARDONA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean, there's so -- there are some packs that have been set up by Gretchen Whitmer, for instance, you know.

CARDONA: You know, by people who might in an imaginary world given -- and given the reality that we're in today, you know, they're not thinking correctly, I believe. Right now, Joe Biden is going to be our nominee. Isn't our nominee, is running for re-election? And he is in an extremely powerful, strong position to beat again, like I said, whoever is the Republican nominee.

[14:25:02]

Because my dear friend, Alice, might want to say that the whole Republican PAC is focused on beating Joe Biden, but what you're going to see in the debate is they're going to all try to out-MAGA each other. They're going to say, who is going to be the most extremist that is going to talk about getting rid of the 14th Amendment, talk about who can ban war books, talk about who is, you know, going after the woke in the country, going after more places where they can take away women's rights to choose, and they're all going to be supporting Donald Trump, who is a huge threat to our democracy. So, by all means, this is going to be a wonder list of things that Democrats are going to be running on in the general election because again, the vast majority of the American people do not support an extremist agenda.

SCIUTTO: Alice, with you, but -- before we go. I can't give you too much time. But on reproductive rights, you know that doesn't work for Republicans in a general. These -- are the position staked out in the primaries among Republicans going to irreparably harm them in the general?

STEWART: Look. The Republican nominee must be pro-life. And that's without a doubt. But they also understand that when the abortion issue is on the ballot, it is -- it is harmful for the pro-life community.

So, they're going to have to make sure that they convince Republican voters they are pro-life, but look at it more from also a general election standpoint that we need to shift the conversation to making sure that there are guidelines in place and not third trimester -- SCIUTTO: And not the third trimester.

STEWART: Right. And not third-trimester abortions. And just shift the conversation but you can still be pro-life, but still also not -- that's what we're not dealing with.

CARDONA: It hasn't worked through you yet. And it's not going to work in a general.

SCIUTTO: And the third-trimester abortion as you -- as you know, is a tiny fraction of overall women who make their choice.

STEWART: Right.

SCIUTTO: Maria, Alice, thanks so much to both of you.

CARDONA: Thank you so much.

STEWART: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: As always. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Still to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL. One of Donald Trump's former top attorneys -- one of the masterminds behind the effort to overturn the 2020 election agreed to bond terms as the former president is expected to negotiate his own. Stay with us. We're back in just moments.

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