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Former Trump Lawyer John Eastman Agrees To $100K Bond; Hilary Slams California With Life-Threatening Flooding; Trump's Legal Team Agrees To $200K Bond In Fulton County. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 21, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The breaking news that we are following this hour. We're told that Donald Trump legal team is at the Fulton County courthouse in Georgia. They're believed to be meeting with the district attorney trying to hash out terms of the former president's bond.

This comes as we're learning in a new court filing that Trump's former attorney, John Eastman, who is facing multiple criminal charges in the Georgia case has agreed to a $100,000 bond.

Joining us now to discuss, we have CNN political commentators, Bakari Sellers and Jonah Goldberg with us as well. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. Bacari to you first. This, or Jonah, too you first. This is what he's dealing with -- the former president. And yet you look at the polls, you see Trump maintaining a commanding lead in the latest polling, even as he's pulled out of Wednesday's debate. Do you think that the other candidates will still be talking about this on the debate stage?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think they have to. I'm very confident they'll be asked about it. And even if they're not asked about it, as much as much as some people would like, you can be sure Chris Christie is going to bring up some of it. So it's an 800- pound gorilla in the room that they have to talk about. The question is, how much do they come to the defense and who comes to the defense of Donald Trump in this context? And who goes on the offensive? And it's just not clear to me how that's going to break down outside of, say Chris Christie.

KEILAR: What do you think, Bakari?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm having a little technical difficulty hearing you.

KEILAR: OK. I think -- we're going to fix Bacari's IFB. As we do, Jonah, we are going to have a scintillating one-on-one conversation about some of the things going on here. So you say you don't really know --

GOLDBERG: My plan is working!

KEILAR: What did you do to his IFB? OK, listen, you said Christie. But there are many people on the stage who, you know, they're not going after Trump, right? You have Governor DeSantis, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley among them. Do you think they're going to keep that up on Wednesday? Or do you think this might be a chance for one of them to seize an opportunity and sort of change the way they've been approaching this?

GOLDBERG: Well, I mean look, here's the fundamental problem that we've got. I mean this sort of as a conservative, as a former Republican and also as an American. The GOP primary electorate is simply unwilling to reward politicians who criticize Donald Trump too strongly. We've seen this in poll after poll. There was just a CBS poll that said that Republican primary voters think that Donald Trump tells the truth more than members of their own family or their religious leaders. Now I don't think that Republicans actually believe that in their day to day lives. At least not many of them.

But the fact that they feel like they have to say that. The fact that his polling improves every time he's indicted creates a really weird head wind for people trying to run against him. And I don't think there's any way you win the nomination without going after the frontrunner. But it's not obvious that going after the frontrunner is going to win you the nomination either. You know, you have Mike Pence who literally wrote a book, a whole book that says that Donald Trump tried to subvert the Constitution and steal the election.

[15:35:00]

But now that he's been indicted for it, you know, his response is, well we have to presume innocence. That's not a great position to take when your whole rationale for being in the race is that Donald Trump is unfit for office. And none of these guys have really figured out how to do it except, you know, Christie who is going for broke. But he's also the most unpopular Republican in the field.

KEILAR: Yes, and presume innocence, Mike Pence says, and yet he says that what Donald Trump did is disqualifying. I wonder, Jonah, what you think when you look at Democrats. Because we're seeing Republicans, how they're responding, those who will be on the debate stage and then others. Bill Cassidy, John Sununu, what they are saying taking on former President Trump. How do you think Democrats, including President Biden, are responding here?

GOLDBERG Well, I think they're basically trying to stay out of it. You know, when your opponent is destroying itself, don't get in the way, is the old maxim. I think there are real problems for Democrats though. I think the Hunter Biden or Biden family investigation has more legs than a lot of people think it does. That doesn't mean that they're going to prove every allegation against Joe Biden. But it could get to the point where there is enough smoke that Joe Biden's own ethical problems real or alleged create -- make him less of a good candidate to run against someone so corrupted as Donald Trump. It kind of -- you know, it allows for all both sidesers to find safe harbor.

And I think that the Democrats are just -- they're in this weird Catch-22 where they obviously despise Donald Trump -- and I understand why. But at the same time, I think they think he's the most beatable candidate. And so, they kind of want to see him as the nominee. And I think both things happen to be true in a sense, that I think Joe Biden would lose against a number of the other Republican candidates.

At the same time, you know, if you force the choice on the electorate, I think the people who say they don't like both candidates will break heavily toward Joe Biden because they'll be voting against Donald Trump rather than for Joe Biden.

KEILAR: Bakari, I see your head nodding there. That means you hear us. Jonah's plan failed. You're listening to some of what he's saying there about how Democrats are responding here and the position they're in. The position President Biden is in. What do you think?

SELLERS: Well, I agree with some and disagree with others parts. I do think Democrats want to run against Donald Trump. I don't think that's not a hidden secret. We believe that he's probably the most beatable candidate of them all. But this is also Donald Trump's party so it looks like you're preparing for a battle against him anyway and this will be over on king day, which is the day of the Iowa caucuses. So that's kind of first.

The second thing is, you know, there is a whole lot of what about-ism when it comes to Hunter Biden. But there is a great deal of difference between the multiple felony counts the president of the United States is looking at versus some activities or actions by this president's son. And I think that has to be stated clearly. Republicans are going to try to Benghazi this to all hell. They're going to have hearings. They're going to say that there is smoke. They are going to say that we're going to have all of this responsibility placed on simply to distract the American people away from this election and drive up Joe Biden's negatives. That is all they want to do is drive up Joe Biden's negatives.

And I don't think that's going to work in this case. And the main reason I don't think it's going to work, is one, Democrats are saying, if Hunter Biden committed a crime, hold him accountable. But two, addiction touches every single family in this country. Or the overwhelming majority there of. And this is a very interesting needle that Republicans are trying to thread by persecuting someone with an addiction. If while having this addiction he committed crimes, then punish him. But there's literally no evidence that this ties back to the president of the United States. And I think that what-about-ism is going to fall flat as we had into this selection.

KEILAR: Yes, which look, we're looking at -- yep --

GOLDBERG A lot of this is ascended from politics. At the same time, I don't think that is true that there's no evidence trying everything to Joe Biden. His story about his relationship with Hunter's business has changed. And all I'm saying is that it generates enough opportunities to throw mud that these things can cancel each other out in a way that may be wrong on the merits -- I'm totally open to that. But sort of like, you know, the age issue can cancel each other out on the merits as a political matter because they're both really old people and they're both very unpopular. I mean, Joe Biden's negatives don't need to be driven up that much higher because they're pretty high already.

KEILAR: Gentlemen, I really appreciate the conversation. I wish that we could have had more of it between the two of you. But Bakari Seller, Jonah Goldberg, thank you so much for talking with me today. I appreciate it.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

SELLERS: Thank you.

KEILAR: Jim.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: When we come back, Hilary is not the only storm threat facing the U.S. right now. We're also watching a new disturbance in the Gulf making its way toward the Texas coast now where authorities have issued new warnings. That's coming up.

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SCIUTTO: We're watching closely for news out of Fulton County, Georgia, where we understand Trump's attorneys have just left the courthouse. Our Katelyn Polantz is there. Do we have any news on whether they have an agreement?

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KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Jim, we are still waiting to see where exactly they go. Because they do still appear to be here on the grounds of the government center around the courthouse for Fulton County, Georgia.

We're watching very closely Trump's lawyers today. Because today is the day that they come in and they make some sort of agreement with prosecutors from the district attorney's office about the terms that Donald Trump must abide by if he's going to not be in jail as he awaits trial here in Georgia for that indictment. I believe it's 13 counts that he faces for what he was trying to do to hold on to the presidency after the election and specifically the steps he took in Georgia. He is accused of racketeering and several other conspiracy and additional offenses, making some false statements as well.

But what we're watching as we wait to see exactly what the terms are that his team comes -- gets together with the prosecutors, we're seeing others in his case. Some of the 18 other defendants. There are lawyers arriving or departing. And we are also seeing some of these, what's called a consent bond. So an agreement between the prosecutor's office and the defense attorney signed off by a judge so that the arrest can go smoothly and the person can be released from jail.

We just saw some of the court documents for two different defendants who have not yet entered their pleadings here. One is John Eastman, that very prominent attorney who was working for Donald Trump after the election. His bond is $100,000. A promise that if he doesn't show up for trial, he'll have to pay that amount.

SCIUTTO: Katelyn Polantz thanks so much -- Boris. BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Hurricane Hilary has weakened. It's now a

post tropical cyclone as it moves north. But it's still posing a threat for deadly flooding and powerful wind gusts across parts of the West. And now another potential tropical storm is heading for the United States. A warning now being issued for south Texas as a new disturbance gathers strength in the Gulf.

Let's first get the latest on Hilary in California with CNN's Stephanie Elam, who is in hard-hit Cathedral City. Stephanie, it looks like a giant mud pool behind you.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is what hurricanes are like in Florida, Boris? You would know.

SANCHEZ: No, no.

ELAM: This is what happens when it was a tropical storm when we got here, and not like this. Not the mud. But look at this mess that's still out here. Water is receding. We're seeing it go down. But I want to show you something here. Because water has been running off of here. But look at how thick this is right here. This is like an inch thick. And you see there's a different kind of mud on top. I can tell you that when you get further out, it gets much deeper and that is why there are still cars that are trapped out here.

You can see I believe an officer there talking to the person who's been sitting in that car for about six hours after they drove down the road and got stuck here. Because it's still a mess.

We do know that some of the roads in and out of Palm Springs are open. However, several of the major roads remain closed at this time. 911 communications are back up. But the reason why is because this is one way to get to the interstate here and it remains closed here as you can see perhaps in the distance. There are some cars, some semitrucks that are still blocking the road. But there's some construction, movement of large vehicles that are trying to clear the road. Trying to get this mud out of the way here. But this is why schools were closed today and why many businesses remain closed today as well. Because the roads are still very much impassable in much of the Coachella Valley -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: A lot of work still ahead for Cathedral City. Stephanie Elam, thanks so much -- Briana.

KEILAR: All right, we have some breaking news having to do with President Trump in Fulton County, Georgia. I want to get straight to Katelyn Polantz. Because, Katelyn, I know that there's some new information about the bond that he negotiated by his lawyers has agreed to pay along with other release conditions. What can you tell us?

POLANTZ: Yes, pretty strict terms here for Donald Trump, the former president, now that his bond has been negotiated in Georgia. For him to be released from jail, to not have to be in jail as he awaits trial here, for that indictment last week in Fulton County related to the 2020 election. And the top lines here are a few. $200,000 is the bond that Donald Trump will have to promise

essentially that he will pay if he doesn't end up showing up for his proceedings and for his trial. On top of that, there are some pretty strict regulations. From what I can see so far in the court document, that would be describing what the bond is. One of those regulations is that is not going to be able to talk to defendants or witnesses in this case about the case and also not going to be able to intimidate anyone. That's explicitly spelled out here.

One of the provisions says that it should include posts on social media or reposts of posts made about another individual on social media. And so, Donald Trump is not going to be able to intimidate any person known to him as a co-defendant or a witness in that case.

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Just think for a second how wide a scope of people that is. That would include someone like Mike Pence. Someone he's running against for the presidency right now who is clearly one of the people who would be a witness to some of the actions here that are part of that racketeering criminal enterprise charge. And that racketeering bond that Donald Trump has here, it's $80,000. So that is steeper than what we have seen in the bond agreement for the other co-defendants in this case so far. We've only seen a couple others.

But those are some of the terms that are right now being set for Donald Trump and this process then will move forward for the former president to be arrested here in the state of Georgia. And you will have to be processed at the jail once -- now that we have this bond agreement that appears to be going through the system and going to be signed off from the judge if it hasn't been already.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be looking for confirmation of that. Katelyn Polantz who is following everything and has been all day for us outside of the courthouse there in Atlanta.

I want to bring in Anna Bower, who is the Fulton County correspondent for Lawfare. She is back with us now. Anna, what do you think about these conditions that have been put in place? Along with the $200,000 bond. But these other parameters as well.

ANNA BOWER, FULTON COUNTY CORRESPONDENT, LAWFARE: Right. I think that the $200,000 bond, while steep, it was expected that Trump being, you know, the alleged top co-conspirator would be someone who would be saddled with a pretty steep bond. As far as these other conditions, well some of them are pretty standard and it is standard to include things like refraining from intimidating witnesses in conditions of release.

What's really remarkable here is, as Katelyn laid out, the specificity of what is included here in terms of what Trump cannot do. So he cannot directly or indirectly intimidate witnesses through social media posts. That certainly I think is a direct reaction to the some of the inflammatory rhetoric that Trump has been using on his social media posts in terms of what he's been saying about Fani Willis. What he has been saying about grand jurors. So I think that that is a direct reaction to this and it seems that it will be very difficult for Trump if the past is telling, it will be very difficult for him to abide by these conditions. So we will see what happens in the future with this.

KEILAR: Yes, let's talk about that because it is going to be difficult for him. And if we've seen his behavior in the past, you know, the indication is that he very well may violate some of these parameters. So then what does the judge do, what are the options?

BOWER: Right. So if he violates these parameters, it could be that he would be subject to having his release revoked. He could be, you know, put into custody. I'm a bit doubtful that that will happen because of the unique situation here with Trump being a presidential candidate. I think the judge would have to weigh that consideration as well as some of the security situation. But it certainly would be the case that like any other defendant, he would be subject to having his release revoked. So that's certainly something to watch for in the future.

KEILAR: You know, knowing that, that it seems unlikely the judge might actually detain the former president, maybe, I don't know, might be more likely to pursue something like a financial penalty or some other kind of penalty. In a way it's sort of special treatment to Trump. He's not necessarily going to be treated like just any other defendant that we are seeing in this case. And if he knows that, Anna, you know, isn't that something that works to his advantage where he can sort of push the boundary here?

BOWER: It is something that works to his advantage. And I think it's unfortunate that he seems to know that. He has pushed the boundary time and time again. We have seen it with the rhetoric that he has used in his other cases that has been brought by the federal government as well as by the prosecutor in New York, Alvin Bragg. And so far, he's gotten away with it. So I think that we are coming to a head here in terms of how far he can push the boundary. And the fact is that these other conditions of release, for example in the federal cases, you know, the language there was a little bit more ambiguous in terms of influencing and intimidating witnesses.

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But here Fani Willis has taken steps to very carefully lay out what would violate these conditions and Trump has agreed to abide by this. So I think that in Fulton County, he certainly has some additional risk to watch for if he violates these conditions.

COOPER: That's a very good point. Anna bower, great to have you on again. Thank you so much for being with us. Jim, over to you.

SCIUTTO: CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joining us now. Evan, you look at this deal, the bond is larger, twice as much as for instance John Eastman agreed to earlier in the day, $200,000. But these other arrangements here about not intimidating or attacking witnesses or even speaking to witnesses in the case. Are they particular to Trump?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They appear to be. But they specify to the former president because for obvious reasons, right? He is someone who does a lot of inflammatory rhetoric on social media. And certainly compared to his three other previous arrests and processing that we've gone through already, Jim, you know, this is the first one that we've seen that actually specifies that he can't be making any such threats over social media, over his social media platforms which is his preferred way of doing this type of thing.

Now, look, the inherent -- it was implied, right, when the judge here in Washington just a couple weeks ago told him from the bench that you can't be making threats at people who are witnesses in this case. And she made him when he didn't speak, she repeated it and made him say, yes, I understand. And so, that judge handled it that way.

In this case it appears the judge that is overseeing this case has written it into this agreement and the former president and his lawyers have signed on to it. And so, this really does really emphasize that if the former president goes ahead and makes these types of things, that he tries do sometimes, he's going to be in trouble with the Georgia state court judge and possibly federal judges in Washington and perhaps elsewhere as well.

SCIUTTO: And would the penalty be, if he sends a tweet out to say Mike Pence who happens to be a witness in this case, right, is the penalty just losing that bond of $200,000 or are there other potential penalties?

PEREZ: Potentially he could lose his freedom. And he could end up obviously if it is seen so severe the judge could say, you don't have the right to be free on bond anymore. But obviously, there is a lot of distance between here and there. And in most cases what happens is if a judge believes that there is some kind of violation, they'll bring you in and they'll talk to you, give you a warning. We certainly have seen that in federal court multiple times where witnesses have gone right up to the line and judges have given them very strict warnings and stern warnings and telling them to make sure that they abide by the terms.

SCIUTTO: You and I have discussed and our colleagues have discussed many remarkable legal events involving the former president in recent days and weeks and months. Do we have any sense now of these surrender conditions by the end of the week, when the former president as required must show up at the Fulton County jail?

PEREZ: Right, well, we don't -- this document doesn't specify when he has to show up. These are simply the terms under which he will show up and then will be released very quickly, we presume, Jim. So what we expect is that in the next couple of days, the former president is going to come down with his Secret Service detail, with all of the, you know, the traffic stopping by the Atlanta police and sheriff there to make sure that he can get in and out safely. All that is going to take place.

Now if you talk to people around him, the political people, you know, the greatest impact for him to do that would be probably Thursday, right? Which is right after the debate. It's right after, you know, whoever is on the stage there is going to -- would normally get all the attention and the former president could swoop right in and take all of that attention away from them.

So certainly from a political standpoint, Thursday makes a lot of sense. But of course he has until midday on Friday to turn himself in. Right now the security people are hoping that it happens sooner rather than later and they are certainly ready at any point -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well listen, we have seen the former president make decisions based on his perceived sense of impact, political impact, public impact. Our Evan Perez there, thanks so much. Quite remarkable events in recent hours and more to come this week.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we've just learned that President Trump is actually already pre-taped the interview with Tucker Carlson the former Fox News anchor that is set to air the night of the debates, in counter programming.

KEILAR: He may be at home watching that debate even as his interview is going to be airing.

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SCIUTTO: He might be at home. He might be preparing for turning up at that Fulton County jail.

KEILAR: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Our breaking news coverage of Donald Trump's legal team's bond agreement in Fulton County continues in just a moment. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts in a few seconds. Thanks for being with us today.