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Sidney Powell in Georgia Agreed to $100,000 Bail; First GOP Debate, Candidates Square Off Tonight; Interview with (R) Former U.S. Representative and (R) Former South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford; Tonight's First GOP Debate Overshadowed by Trump's Absence; Interview with Atlanta Field Office Retired Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Reginald "Ray" Moore; Fulton County Plans Security for Trump's Surrender; As Wildfires Rage Across Greece, Hospitals Have Been Evacuated; Successful Landing as India Becomes 4th Country to Set Foot on the Moon. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 23, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: In terms of politics, just in, we have a Burgum Bulletin. It is unclear if North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum will take the debate stage tonight. He was injured in a pickup basketball game. He had to be taken to the hospital. So, with or without Burgum, the debate will take place and it will take place in Milwaukee, which is in Wisconsin, which is no coincidence because the Republican convention is there, too, also not a coincidence. Why?

CNN's Data Reporter Harry Enten is with us now. Wisconsin seems important, Harry.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATE REPORTER: Wisconsin is very person, Mr. Berman. So, I want to give you an understanding. Wisconsin is the tipping point state. And what do I mean by that exactly? OK. Let's say that we shifted the national vote back in 2020, let's say by .3 percentage points more Republican. What would we be looking at at the electoral college vote?

We'd be looking at the Republican candidate getting 262. The Democratic candidate getting 266. And that would mean that Wisconsin, whoever won Wisconsin, would be the winner of the presidential election. And this idea of this tipping point state, that is Wisconsin being the ultimate arbiter of who wins the election held true in 2020 and it held true in 2016 as well. Wisconsin is a very important state for both the Republicans and the Democrats.

BERMAN: So goes Wisconsin, so goes America. It used to be no Republican could win without Ohio, Right?

ENTEN: Right.

BERMAN: Now, it's no Democrat can win without Wisconsin.

ENTEN: Yes. I mean, you know, the fact of the matter is the last time a Democrat has won the presidency without Wisconsin was 1960. So, the idea that Republicans think is, hey, we can win Wisconsin, we can win the presidency. The Democrats can't win without it.

BERMAN: And it's been going back and forth and back and forth.

ENTEN: And it's been going back and forth and back and forth. You know, Obama won Wisconsin by seven. Trump won it by a point. Then Biden won it by a point. So, the fact is is that whoever has been winning Wisconsin has been winning the presidency, and that is a big reason why Republicans are betting so big on this term.

BERMAN: So, it's close in the presidential race. But we've seen plenty of evidence it's super close in other races as well.

ENTEN: I mean, look at the 2022 midterm elections, right? We have a split. Governor Evers won by three points. Look here in the U.S. Senate, Ron Johnson winning by a point. Wisconsin was split just as the nation was split in 2022, just as we've seen on the presidential level where Wisconsin has been split the last few election cycles.

BERMAN: So, it's not just this first debate that is there tonight. The Republican convention will be there.

ENTEN: That's exactly right. And I think the idea is, OK. Republicans are putting all these eggs in their basket, right? We're going to hold the debate in Wisconsin. We're going to hold our RNC in Wisconsin. Will this actually make a difference at the end of the day? Sort of.

I mean, on average, you've seen that Republicans have done one point better where the RNC has been held than you might expect given the recent elections. So, it might help a little bit but it's not going to be something that's going to make Wisconsin so much more red.

BERMAN: I do know the party operatives do think it is worth a little something when they couldn't hold the conventions in person last time because of COVID. The Democrats were going to be in Milwaukee. I think, they felt like they suffered there. It is important-ish --

ENTEN: Ish.

BERMAN: -- to them.

ENTEN: A little bit. But, hey, Wisconsin is so close.

BERMAN: Yes.

ENTEN: It might make the difference.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, great to see you.

ENTEN: Great to see you.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Thank you, boys.

Joining us now, the Former Republican Governor of South Carolina and Former Congressman, Mark Sanford. It's good to see you, Governor. Thanks for coming in. You are in Milwaukee, the aforementioned Milwaukee, Wisconsin for the big debate tonight. Who, first of all, are you watching most closely this evening?

MARK SANFORD, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE AND (R) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: Yes, I look forward to it. I'm watching everybody, rather, closely. I just landed and wish I could be over there with you, but didn't quite make it, but I'm here. I'm at least in town.

BOLDUAN: That's all that matters. What do you think -- there's a big debate on how much do you take on Donald Trump from the stage in his absence? And how much do you turn the focus to, well, anything other than Trump though he's obviously front and center in this debate though not there because he is the frontrunner far and away. What do you think is the best strategy?

SANFORD: You better go after him. I mean, the nature of a campaign is saying what you believe, but also saying why you're better than the other guy in addressing issues that are important to people's lives. And what I haven't heard in -- for almost, you know, with the exception of Chris Christie or maybe Asa Hutchinson, is a lot of, OK, here's what I believe. But here's why Trump won't get you there.

I think we need to hear more of that in the debate tonight. If people want to stand out, they got to run that very, very thin line of not alienating Trump's base, but going after Trump. You've not heard that people try to be Trump light. And if they're just Trump light, why not go with Trump?

BOLDUAN: Chris Christie had a pretty direct opinion about who he thinks has already lost even before they take the stage. Let me play what Chris Christie said last night.

[10:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the big loser at tomorrow night's debate has been determined, and it's Donald Trump, because he didn't have the guts or the respect to show up on that stage and defend his record and advocate for the future of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That is, you know, a classic Chris Christie. It's also a good line for a politician who is trying to run against Trump. And I know you're no fan of Donald Trump yourself, but do you think Donald Trump is losing right now when -- and not showing -- loses when -- and not showing up and being on the debate stage?

SANFORD: Honestly, I -- beauty is in the eye of the beholder on that one. To a lot of people, I do think that there is a basic level of respect to the Democratic process. It goes with being a part of the debate. I've always had a problem in every one of my races, whether I was well ahead or not, I figured I owed it to the electorate to be a part of the debate so that we could indeed have that contest of ideas. So, I think from a big "D," Democratic process, it's a mistake. And it's as with many things with Trump, sort of, flies in the face of certain American ideals. As a pure campaign strategy standpoint, I get it. He's got the lead and he doesn't want to fumble the ball, to be in the debate stage is to risk fumbling the ball.

BOLDUAN: I wanted to ask you, you were -- I remember, in attendance when Tim Scott launched his presidential campaign. Scott has distinguished himself in the primary by his optimism, by projecting optimism in a more hopeful vision of America than we hear from, well, Donald Trump, for one. And you've seen that he is really liked. I would say his likability (INAUDIBLE) as we always talk about, they're on the rise and they have been high.

But after Donald Trump, Governor, do you think likability really matters in the Republican Party? And do you think being nice is going to work on a debate stage?

SANFORD: I can only hope so. I think that there's a thirst in this country for the Ronald Reagan approach to the caring of ideals. The fact of the matter is, Reagan would have a drink with Tip O'Neill, then-speaker of the house, though they saw the world very differently, to the prism of politics. They -- at the end of the day, didn't slash and burn each other as human beings.

And we have devolved to this state wherein it's all about just turned down the other side. Our republic can't stand if that's simply the way in which we advance political ideas. So, I'm hopeful about Tim Scott. I think that his optimism has brought him thus far. I hope that the American public gets to see a bit of what we've seen in South Carolina over the years in term of his youthful optimism. And this notion of a bright, shining city on a hill and being an example to others, and shining something other than slashes, burns, cuts and insults which has been the way of late.

BOLDUAN: Let us see. It will be good to hear your opinion of it all after it all goes down tonight. Governor, thank you.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Interesting conversation, Kate.

And here is something else that's going on right now. We're seeing a stream of co-defendants into the Fulton County Jail. As that Friday deadline to surrender gets closer and closer, just a couple of days and an hour left to go, Rudy Giuliani is now on his way. And Former President Trump says, he will be there tomorrow surrendering. How the sheriff is preparing for these high-from profile arrest, that's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BERMAN: New this morning, Donald Trump put out a statement that said he will proudly be arrested tomorrow in Georgia. The county sheriff said, the president will be treated just like every other suspect. But due to his high profile, the Secret Service is working hand in hand with local law enforcement. Just a reminder here, this was the advice that Trump gave to police in 2017 about what they should do when they deal with suspects.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, THEN-U.S. PRESIDENT: Please don't be too nice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. That's another matter, obviously.

Joining us now is Retired Secret Service Agent Ray Moore. He was in charge of Atlanta's Secret Service field office and is a personal friend of the Fulton County sheriff. Great to see you. Thank you so much for being with us. What is the Secret Service most interested in in this process, in this surrender?

REGINALD "RAY" MOORE, RETIRED SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, ATLANTA FIELD OFFICE: Well, thank you very much for having me. The Secret Service is most concerned about the security of their protectee, Former President Donald Trump. Making sure he gets from point A to point B, safe and secure.

BERMAN: The security of the protectee, which in this case is Donald Trump. I can't imagine that when any of these Secret Service agents signed up for the job and got in the protective detail that they ever thought one of the things they'd try to be arranging is the arrest of a former president, in this case, not just one, but four times. Have you thought about what that must be like for them to be in this moment?

MOORE: I'm sure that is wearing on them, but they're going to do their job. And their job is to build a 360 umbrella, a protective bubble around the protectee anywhere and everywhere he goes.

[10:45:00]

So, going to a jail would just be like traveling to a hotel. You're just making sure you crossed all your Ts and dotted all your Is.

BERMAN: Where do the interests of the Secret Service and the Fulton County sheriff? Where do they align? And maybe where do they not align perfectly?

MOORE: I think they're aligning perfectly. Patrick Labat and Steve Baisel, the SAC in the Atlanta field office know each other well. They belong to a group called Metropol, so they're not meeting each other for the first time. So, they know what the issue is. Making sure President Trump is securely brought to the jail and subsequently processed without any hiccups. And I'm sure they worked out a very cohesive plan and make that happen.

BERMAN: One of the things we've heard from officials in Fulton County is they want to treat Donald Trump and the other 18 people charged here just like any other suspect. But how can you not treat a president differently? In what ways necessarily will he have to be treated differently?

MOORE: Well, he will be coming into a secure arrival point. There won't be any other prisoners, there won't be any extemporaneous jail employees. He will come into a secure location. If he has to go upstairs, go through a secure elevator, walk down a secure hall, go into a processing room that, at some point, may have been full of people where he will be the only person getting processed in that room.

BERMAN: And in terms of the jail itself, you said a jail is just like any other place that a former president would go. So, you can't -- a jail has to be fundamentally different. I mean, first of all, you're not going to want that former president inside with the general population, are you?

MOORE: No. They're not going to walk him into where the general population is. I believe the general population in areas in close proximity to the processing room will be put placed on lockdown. He will go into an area which is totally secure, you won't even have extra jail personnel in those hallways. They're going to make it safe and secure for him because they've got to also protect Former President Trump, they've got to protect the Secret Service agents, and they've got to make sure the sheriff's department personnel is safe, too.

BERMAN: All right. Ray Moore, great to see you. Thank you so much for lending your expertise today.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And we are standing by to see Rudy Giuliani arrive in Georgia and head to that county jail. The parade of defends now turning themselves in. Giuliani already making clear he's not going quietly.

And deadly wildfires are scorching Greece, forcing towns, even hospitals to evacuate right now. We'll take you there, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BOLDUAN: The heatwave heading Europe right now has also now triggered wildfires. In Northern Greece, we have now learned firefighters discovered the burned bodies of 18 people in a remote village. Several communities have already been evacuated, including two hospitals full of patients. Emergency officials say, more than 21,000 acres have been burned since Monday.

CNN's Eleni Giokos is live in Athens. And you've been in it all day, Eleni. I was watching you early this morning. What are you seeing?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Right now, what I'm seeing is what should be beautiful lands of Athens, what should be greenery. And instead, we're seeing dystopia, a burned forest. The wildfires, Kate, have ravaged Parnitha, which is supposed to be an important carbon basin for the City of Athens. We're in the outskirts of Athens in the northern part of the city.

You can see homes that were burned. We witnessed so many homes burned to the ground. Many residents defiant, not wanting to leave their livelihoods, their homes. A lot of volunteers, and we can even see some of them here that are trying to put out what's remaining of the fire to try and ensure that it doesn't flare up again.

There have been 208 fires in the last 48 hours in Greece, that's according to the Civil Defense Ministry. There have also been a lot of criticism from political parties saying that government hasn't done enough. There's been criticism by a lot of the locals, as well, saying there should have been more. What we have witnessed, however, is a lot of the firefighters, the planes that have been towering above us doing what they can working tirelessly in what has been a herculean task to try and put out these fires.

We have about an hour and a half of light left today. That means that in one and a half hours, if the wind picks up again, that is the big risk. The fires are under control right now in some areas. There are three main fronts right now, and you can hear the airplanes up ahead of us. We don't know what the wind will do tonight, but people remain optimistic, Kate, that this is not going to spread further. Already so much damage, so much heartbreak that we've witnessed today.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Yes. And it's terrifying to think what -- if this spreads in the middle of the night. How terrifying that is. Eleni, thank you so much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Now, to something a little more uplifting. Turning now to history made in India today, and a big celebration as their space agency became the fourth in the world to successfully land a spacecraft on the moon, following the U.S., China and the former Soviet Union.

[10:55:00]

Earlier this morning, the Chandrayaan-3landed on the lunar south pole, it was India's second try at the landing and comes days after Russia's spacecraft didn't make it. It crashed into the moon. India Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, praised the landing. Virtually saying, the success belongs to all of humanity. And as they say in India, badhaee ho India, which means congratulations in Hindi.

BERMAN: I was just going to say that myself. It's a remarkable achievement and really interesting to see.

In the meantime, we're seeing a lot of activity this morning at the Fulton County Jail. Donald Trump's co-defendants turning themselves in. Rudy Giuliani could arrive at any moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:00:00]