Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Rally In Support Of DA Fani Willis In Atlanta Today; Biden Campaign Hope To Draw Stark Contrast With GOP; Suspect Opens Fire On Deputies In Pittsburgh. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired August 23, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

SCOTT WALKER, PRESIDENT, YOUNG AMERICA'S FOUNDATION: Dramatically between now and early in 2024 when these primaries and caucuses really kick off. But if I was a betting man, I'm not, but I would bet that Donald Trump will be the nominee. And I'd say he's got a pretty good shot of being elected president of the United States. But none of that will be easy. I think here in Wisconsin, another race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump will come right down to a handful of votes in places like Milwaukee, Madison, and a handful of other locations across the country -- I mean across the state.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What's your advice to the candidates who are pulling in the low single digits about whether or not they should stay in the race?

WALKER: To me, they have to have a breakthrough moment tonight. If they don't have that, to me, I'd get out, maybe stay in through the second debate. But I don't think it's worth it for them or their supporters or others to have the field crowd or these debate stages after you've had at least one or two when you've got maybe three to five tops that are in any position to be able to take on the current front-runner, obviously President Trump. And I think that field will narrow each time we have a debate as people don't live up to the moment.

BERMAN: I know, you just said you're not a betting man. I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that. And I'm going to ask you who you think -- who you think will emerge from tonight's debate as the winner or having the best performance?

WALKER: Well, I think -- like you said, to me, the DeSantis campaign is putting maybe not all but a good chunk of their chips on a strong performance tonight. I think he needs to have that. I think he can counter the chatter about whether or not he's up to the challenges to be the main contender.

I think a good -- and like I said, having others attack him, I actually think it's good. We saw that in the first debate with Donald Trump eight years ago, almost everybody was attacking him. He took them on and he looked like he was the guy in charge. If Ron DeSantis does that, he's definitely a winner.

But I think for the kind of outside-of-the-box thought is I would look at someone like Senator Tim Scott. I think he's got a compelling story. He'd have to rev it up a little bit.

I was advising myself to have a couple of cokes and up your caffeine level before but he comes out swinging with passion. He might be someone that people don't expect to have a big win tonight. But for the others, Mike Pence, and Nikki Haley, they too have to have breakthrough moments if they're going to be a viable alternative to the president.

BERMAN: All right, don't listen to the consultants. Do listen to former Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker. Great to have you with us again from your hometown. Appreciate it. Have fun playing with your friends at your house, as we like to say. Nice to see you, Governor.

WALKER: Thank you. Although, hopefully, nobody breaks a knee.

BERMAN: Yes, let's hope. All right, Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

BERMAN: Oh, I have a promo to read.

SIDNER: I was going to read it for you.

BERMAN: Well, you know what? I can't actually read it. It's you --

SIDNER: OK.

BERMAN: Wait. And after the debate --

SIDNER: Excellent, John.

BERMAN: -- get the critical context and political analysis you need. Anderson Cooper and Dana Bash. They host "THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE POST-DEBATE ANALYSIS." That's live tonight at 11:00 p.m. right here on CNN. Sometimes the letters have to be a little bigger for me to read them. How is that?

SIDNER: Here's the thing. It's your best work, John.

BERMAN: Is it?

SIDNER: It -- really, this is your best work. All right, a rally is planned in Atlanta as Donald Trump and more of his co-defendants prepare to turn themselves into jail there. But the rally is not for Trump. It's for Fulton County DA Fani Willis, her staff, and members of the grand jury that indicted Donald Trump and the others. What we can expect? Ahead.

And Trump's former personal attorney Rudy Giuliani arrived just moments ago. We watch the plane come into Georgia. It's his day to go to jail in Fulton County, but his surrender may take a bit more time. Why that is? And the latest on the parade of defendants who are turning themselves in before the deadline.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:38:15]

SIDNER: Soon, the man that used to be referred to as America's Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, will be in court arguing over his bond before he must surrender at Fulton County Jail. He flew in a private jet which landed in Georgia just moments ago. Already this morning, two other co- defendants surrendered and were booked and processed, former Trump campaign lawyer Ray Smith and Kenneth Chesebro, the architect of Donald Trump's fake elector plot in the state of Georgia.

In all, the former president and 12 remaining co-defendants have until noon on Friday to surrender. Sources are telling CNN that Trump is planning to travel to Georgia tomorrow afternoon to be arrested during prime time. Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And with all that unfolding in Fulton County, a rally in support of the district attorney, Fani Willis, her staff and members of the grand jury is getting underway right now in Atlanta. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is there. She's joining us now. Diane, what are you seeing -- what are you hearing from folks?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kate, this rally has been underway for about 20 minutes or so. Now, I'm going to step out so you can see behind me. This is Georgia AME Bishop Reginald T. Jackson speaking to members of the clergy, the NAACP, members of Georgia's Legislative Black Caucus, and black voters that matter.

Reggie -- Bishop Jackson is saying that basically there will be a reckoning he said if Donald Trump attempts to block Georgia's justice system or bullies District Attorney Fani Willis. Now, this prayer vigil that has been going on this morning is for the personal protection of District Attorney Willis, her staff member to the grand jury, as CNN has reported, who have experienced threats since these indictments came down. Those threats, of course, are still under investigation.

[11:40:04]

But they're also talking about political protection here to prevent any sort of political retaliation from state lawmakers in Georgia Republicans in Georgia. Republicans that have talked about the potential for them to use resources like a law that was passed last year that does give the state more power to remove duly elected district attorneys. And so, this is about getting their supporters, their clergy members, as well as people here in the Atlanta community to, in their words, support the district attorney, her staff, and those grand jurors.

But also they said, to make sure that elected leaders know that people in Fulton County are watching them. And they want to make sure that they say justice is served and the political process is allowed to play out without pressure. Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, Dianne Gallagher, thanks for being there. John?

BERMAN: All right. The first Republican debate just hours away. Donald Trump will not be on stage, nor will any Democrats. They still though have a new strategy for how they plan to respond.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:31]

BOLDUAN: Eight Republicans will soon be taking the stage to debate. Many more Republicans are also gathering in Milwaukee to watch it all play out. And also headed to Wisconsin today, President Biden's campaign.

The campaign has installed Dark Brandon ads on billboards across Milwaukee. They're going to be flying planes overhead. The chairman of the DNC and others are planning on holding a press conference in a little more than an hour. And the campaign gave a preview last night of their message around the big first Republican debate.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CEDRIC RICHMOND, BIDEN CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIR: The truth of the matter is, it doesn't. They're all playing out of the same playbook, and they're all espousing the same unpopular positions that Donald Trump led with and he continues to drag this party to the extreme. And so, whether he's on the stage or not, his extreme agenda will be.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us now for more on this is former Obama White House senior policy adviser Ashley Allison, and CNN senior political analyst, the one and only John Avlon. it's good to see you, guys.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi.

BOLDUAN: Ashley, what I heard from Cedric Richmond, right there is to me at least it sounds like a 2022 -- the 2022 strategy all over again. Wash, rinse -- wash, rinse, and repeat. Will that work?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think that's the only strategy they're deploying. But I do think it's an important one.

Look. The Democrats' agenda is fairly popular with both Democrats, independents, and some Republicans. Whether it's talking about improving the economy, whether it's talking about woman having -- a woman having access to choose through abortion rights, whether it is talking about making sure it's college is more affordable, people find these policies overwhelmingly popular. And so to talk about that is smart, especially when you look at the president's record.

What I do think, though the campaign could do at their press conference around 1:00 is also talking about Donald Trump and the type of person he is, and the fact that he's facing four indictments, and how he threatened our democracy in the campaign. And Joe Biden has talked about the threat to democracy, but they haven't really leaned in on those indictments just yet. And there's an opportunity to do that because we pretty much know that very few Republicans will actually do that on the stage tonight. BOLDUAN: That is an interesting point. Leaning in on the indictments, especially surrounding -- I mean, John, when you think of the timing. You're going to have this debate tonight, and you have Donald Trump surrendering to be arrested tomorrow.

AVLON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: With the timing of that, what do you think about that strategy of leaning into the indictments and kind of this -- at this point with this debate tonight?

AVLON: Well, I think the news cycle is going to do a lot of work for you in that regard. But it raises one of the basic questions. Who on the stage not named Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson has the stones to stand up and say, you know what, someone who tries to overturn our election, that should be disqualifying. And the failure to call that out, is itself also disqualifying for reasons of cowardice, if nothing else.

So, that's fine. But I think there's a larger game here, right? Debates are going to be largely about from the candidates' standpoint, me or going to try to define themselves.

But, Kim, elections are really about you. How are their policies going to help you? And so, I think it's an opportunity also to raise policies and shift that focus.

BOLDUAN: I only giggle because it's been a policy-light conversation in politics for quite some time.

AVLON: It has. But it shouldn't be. And I actually think there's a lot of space there for someone who's got to stand up and say, here's my vision for how I can help you.

BOLDUAN: But he's not going to be on the stage tonight. But do you think, John, that it would be better or worse for Democrats since we're looking from that perspective here, in making their case and Joe Biden making the case had Donald Trump join the debate stage tonight?

AVLON: I mean, look. I think Trump's going to dominate the debate whether he's on the stage or off the stage because in this case, absence is the highest form of presence.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

AVLON: And we're always talking about the -- these indictments, which are completely unprecedented.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

AVLON: So, I think it's really about saying who on the stage is going to have the courage of their convictions, to tell the truth, which is that trying to overturn an election is what's unacceptable? That's what's un-American and not, you know, trying to play the game. And how much of the gravitational pull being towards, you know, culture war issues or economics. People -- BOLDUAN: That's so brave.

AVLON: How do people live and how can we rebuild the middle class? That should be an issue both parties can debate about, but not if you're focused on the former.

BOLDUAN: That's a -- that is a great -- that will be a very interesting to see tonight --

AVLON: Shocking.

BOLDUAN: -- kind of the breakdown of minutes in terms of what's spent on cultural issues --

AVLON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And the economy --

AVLON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- for -- you know, for one example. Ashley, we always ask who -- we've already been asking this morning for two Republicans leading up tonight, what does a winning night look like to -- for anybody standing on that debate stage. What does a winning night tonight look like for Democrats when you're looking at a Republican debate tonight? Define that for me.

[11:50:13]

ALLISON: Well, I think it -- there's an opportunity for Democrats to seize if no one yet again stands up against Donald Trump. It identifies that they are all yielding to him being the leader of their party, and most likely the nominee. And so, I think Democrats should seize on that.

To John's point, we haven't had a real debate about policy, but there's an opportunity to introduce policy conversations to the floor. As a Democrat, I would come back and respond the very next day and say, this is actually what the Republicans wanted. When I'm talking about immigration, well, remember when Donald Trump was president, and they separated children from their families, that's not the immigration policy we're talking about. We're looking for bipartisan support. So, I think there's a real opportunity to lean in both on Donald Trump and policies and different touches on that immediately.

BOLDUAN: And no one should be surprised that the former senior policy adviser to the Obama White House really wants to lean in on policy, Ash. He's like, let's go.

AVLON: We should all want to lean in on policy.

BOLDUAN: Let's go.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: So, John, Biden -- so Biden's campaign, I laid out a little bit of how they are definitely becoming omnipresent in Wisconsin, kind of surrounding all this. They've also just launched their first State- specific ad just yesterday in Wisconsin. Let me play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like Joe Biden understands people like me. All the things that Biden bought to get past help the middle class.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: We know Biden won Wisconsin in 2020 with just over 20,000 votes. It's key, or else you wouldn't have a debate in Wisconsin or a Republican convention going to be in Wisconsin. But what's the math? What do you -- how key is Wisconsin to a Biden -- to a Biden reelection?

AVLOON: It -- one hundred percent essential. I mean, I think one of the things that doomed Hillary Clinton's campaign was the fact that she did not campaign in Wisconsin. You know, Trump won it narrowly by less than -- less than one percent. Biden won it by around 0.5 percent.

So, every vote counts. And making a middle-class-centered argument, reminding people of what his administration has done. That's essential because guess what? That message actually hasn't gotten out.

Biden, you know, has -- there's been a lot of consequential legislation that he's passed, CHIPS Act, infrastructure and things like that. But you know, Biden does not get credit for it within polling, so they need to do a much better sales job. And I think it's often a cop-out when people blame the communications.

But this is exactly what they should be doing focusing on Wisconsin, focusing on these swing states like a laser beam because that's where the election will be decided. swing voters in swing states people, it's basic.

BOLDUAN: Swing voters, swing states, and maybe a little desperate policy. It's good to see you, Ashley. Thank you so much. Great to see you, John. As always, thank you.

AVLON: (INAUDIBLE) Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John?

BERMAN: All right. Kate, we are getting breaking news out of Pittsburgh where police say they're engaged in an active shooter situation. In fact, they call it an extremely active situation where there are shots fired -- being fired between police and a suspect that they were apparently trying to evict. Let's get some more of the details here. I know Brynn Gingras has been following this. Brynn, bring us up to speed.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, my colleagues as well. Danny Freeman is in on a boost still. We're following this as we go. John, just learning that essentially, like you said, they were serving an eviction notice in the Garfield section of Pittsburgh when police came under heavy gunfire from one individual. It does appear, according to the law enforcement people that we've spoken to, that there is only one suspect in this case.

But again, as you just said, it seems like this is a very active situation. In fact, you can see there. The scene. We're told that there's a number of law enforcement agencies there on the scene, including a SWAT team.

And if you listen to some of the video that's coming into our newsroom, you can actually hear a lot of that rapid gunfire. It's not clear. There's no confirmation of how many shots were fired as police were trying to serve this eviction notice. But we knew -- we know, again, that there were a lot of shots fired, just listening for ourselves.

And again, we don't know much more than that if there was -- we believe there's no suspect in custody at this moment. But we do believe there is just one suspect that they are honing in on. But you can see the scene there right for yourself.

Officials, they're talking to people in that area. That's a heavily cordoned-off area of law enforcement as they kind of get this situation under control. But that's the latest that we're hearing.

We've reached out to the FBI to see if they have now involved themselves as well. And we're still trying to get those answers. But again, an area that law enforcement is saying stay away from, at this moment, the Garfield area of Pittsburgh as they have a very active situation after law enforcement tried to serve this eviction notice on someone in that area.

[11:55:04]

BERMAN: An extremely active situation. I'm not sure I've heard those words before, used to describe an active shooting situation.

GINGRAS: Yes.

BERMAN: There's an exchange of gunfire going out there.

BOLDUAN: We're just looking -- we're just looking at the Pittsburgh, is that one neighbor in the area saying in terms of the -- more -- they -- what he heard was more than a hundred shots fired. Saying I've never heard bullets like this. It's something you'd see in a movie.

BERMAN: And, Brynn, we got to let you go here. But it's just one suspect at this point, we believe?

GINGRAS: Yes. At this point, it does appear to be just one person that law enforcement is focused on. Presumably, obviously, the person that's firing those gunshots.

BERMAN: OK. GINGRAS: But yes, you just heard Kate describe a number. There's no confirmation on a number but you can hear it for yourself. It is a very active situation with a lot of gunfire at law enforcement. We don't know if anyone is injured at this point either, guys.

BERMAN: OK. We know you're going to stay on it, Brynn.

SIDNER: Yes.

GINGRAS: Yes.

BERMAN: BERMAN: Our reporters are at Pittsburg working their sources as well, obviously. We will inform you all of more information on this as soon as we get it.

SIDNER: All right. And as we're watching this just showing you what's going on, there's a lot of gunfire that is still happening. I was listening to some of that. It is stark.

But thank you so much for joining us. We will be continuing to watch this as this unfolds for you. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)