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Today: Trump Surrenders At Fulton Co. Jail In Atlanta; Judge Rules Meadows, Clark Can't Avoid Arrest In Georgia Case; Most GOP Candidate Would Support Trump If He's Convicted. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 24, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I think the ocean would be big enough for all of us, but no.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Oh men, that's what --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cursing sea lion?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that's going to (INAUDIBLE).

BLACKWELL: Like this, like sea lions like the people (INAUDIBLE), oh my gosh. It gets me every time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Victor moments will always remember, cursing sea lions.

BLACKWELL: Oh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you with the former Vice President today, yes, you can answer that.

BLACKWELL: Oh, yes, you can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you can. Be back tomorrow?

BLACKWELL: Yes, I'll be here to borrow one more day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more day.

BLACKWELL: You'll have me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm grateful for you.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN "NEWS CENTRAL" is next.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: It is surrender day for Donald Trump. And first on CNN, we've learned the ex-president has replaced his top Georgia attorney just hours before he's going to head to Atlanta to be arrested.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Request Denied. A federal judge tells two of Trumps Georgia co-defendants that they will be arrested in the state's election subversion case. There is no way around it, and they have just one more day to surrender.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Who won, who lost? What is the one-line people will remember? What is the one line that candidate most wishes he or she could forget? We're starting to see the impact of the first Republican debate.

I'm John Berman, along with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN "News Central."

BOLDUAN: Quite a day ahead, hours from now former President Donald Trump is going to leave his Bedminster golf course Golf Club in New Jersey traveled to a jail in Georgia where he will surrender to charges accusing him of running a criminal enterprise to stay in power. 964 days have now passed since Trump demanded of that man Brad Raffensperger before the second Georgia Secretary of State to find 11,780 votes to win.

When Trump enters this Fulton County jail that we've been keeping an eye on now for days, it will be to face his fourth indictment this year. Sheriff's deputies will be waiting to process him which will likely include fingerprinting and the first ever potentially mug shots of a former U.S. president. So far nine of his 18 co-defendants have gone through that very same process, including former New York City mayor and his -- and Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani. For those who have not yet surrendered, they are left with just over 24 hours. The deadline is noon tomorrow.

A federal judge ruled overnight that there are really no exceptions here despite efforts by Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, who filed an emergency order to try to avoid this process, to try to avoid being arrested. Also, something to keep in mind cameras will be inside the court through at least September 8th. Meaning, Trump -- Trump's upcoming arraignment could be broadcast on screens far and wide. There's clearly a lot going on.

So, let's get right to it. CNN's Kristen Holmes is outside from Trump's home, just outside Trump's Golf Club in New Jersey. Kristen, first, what is the deal with this last-minute switch with Trump's attorney in Georgia?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, we're still getting the details on why exactly this happened. But here's what we know. Trump's top attorney Drew Findling. He was actually part of the team that negotiated his $200,000 bond is being replaced by another Atlanta based criminal defense attorney someone by the name of Steven Sadow. Now I am told by Trump's sources that this is not because of Fidling's performance in any way. Another source telling me it is just because Sadow is the best criminal defense attorney in Georgia. And as we know, Trump has not been someone who has been hesitant to change up his legal team. Even in the last minute even back in June, he removed two of his top attorneys and the indictment into whether he mishandled classified documents.

So clearly keeping with that just hours before he has said to -- will arrive in Atlanta and be processed as you laid out there. I've talked to a number of sources today who essentially say two things are true at once we talked about Trump's mood around these indictments. One, they do feel very good about his decision to skip the debate last night, they were waiting to see if there was some sort of breakout star some sort of other candidate. They don't believe that there was so they stand by that decision. But they also don't want to be going to Atlanta, they don't want to be dealing with another criminal indictment.

I am told however, they are going to once again capitalize on the media narrative, taking the wind out of the sails of those candidates who had been on the debate stage. However, again, we know he's going to pass us by here in just a few hours. He's going to be processed in the evening in Atlanta straight trip in and out and possibly talk to reporters who are traveling with him, Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right. Kristen, great to have you there. Thank you so much.

Sara?

[09:05:02]

SIDNER: All right, Donald Trump's former chief of staff and an ex- Justice Department official will be arrested in Georgia's election subversion case. A judge rejected the request by Mark Meadows and Jeffrey Clark to avoid being booked at the Fulton County Jail. They now have just under 27 hours to turn themselves in.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has been following all of the details in this story. Does this impact their efforts to try to get the case moved to federal court? They were doing two things, one trying to keep themselves from being booked, but two trying to move their case from the state court to the federal court. How does this play?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: It could Sara, they are going to be continuing to argue that their case should be in federal court because they were federal officials at the time of the charges of the allegations of what they were doing for Donald Trump after the election. And they say that everything that they were doing were things that wouldn't have been done if they had not been federal officials working for Donald Trump at that time. But there is really a fight brewing here that we're going to see spill over into court on Monday at a hearing where Mark Meadows and Jeffrey Clark may have to present evidence about what they were doing. We know the district attorney is ready to call witnesses about that call that Trump placed the Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in Georgia to find votes after the election. And this is gearing up to be quite a series of days for these two men because others who are working for Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell, they've already turned themselves in, been arrested. Trump himself who was president at the time could be asking for this federal protection or to move the case, he hasn't done so yet. And he's coming to town to be arrested to go to the jail. But Mark Meadows, Jeffrey Clark, we just don't have information yet on what their plans are between now and noon tomorrow if they don't show up and self-surrender.

The DA's office has already said they're going to issue a warrant for their arrest. And in this proceeding, we are now hearing from former Republican officials' top officials in the George H.W. Bush administration, in the Reagan administration, a former Judge Michael Leunig (ph), as well as the former Republican governors of Massachusetts and New Jersey arguing that these federal government officials should not have the protection they shouldn't get this case moved to federal court, because what they were doing was arguing to interfere with a state's selection of electors.

One of the things that they have said specifically in this filing is that, removal would be perverse as this prosecution arises from interference with state government operations and seeks to vindicate Georgia's voice in a federal election, the very contest from which federal authority flows.

So that legal dispute is going to be continuing on as well as this question of do we should see lawyers for Jeffrey Clark and Mark Meadows show up in town today at this courthouse complex? Perhaps? And do we see them over at the jail as well?

SIDNER: It is going to be a very busy 24 hours. Katelyn Polantz, thank you for juggling all these 19 defendants in this case. There are so many details to get through. Appreciate you.

John?

BERMAN: All right, with us now. Former Trump White House lawyer Jim Schultz and CNN law enforcement analyst, Jonathan Wackrow.

Jim, I want to start with the breaking news, which is that hours before he surrenders, and an Atlanta jail, Donald Trump has, you know, shaken up his legal team, yet again, out is Drew Findling, in is Steven Sadow.

Now, yes, we become used to Donald Trump's legal representation being tumultuous. But this guy Drew finally, and I think we have some pictures of both these lawyers. He was supposed to be the Atlantic guy. They were bragging about how, you know, Keaton (ph), he was to the system there. So, what does it tell you that even here where he seemed to have a good thing going, he can't keep stable representation?

JAMES SCHULTZ, FMR TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: So, I think in this case, Steven Sadow, and he is -- he is a celebrity lawyer, right? He's represented Howard Stern. He's represented Ray Lewis. He's represented folks in very high-profile criminal cases. With the Donald Trump, like a showman. This guy represents celebrities, Donald Trump deems himself a celebrity first. I think that's why he went with Steven Sadow.

BERMAN: What about switching right before such a pivotal moment?

SCHULTZ: I think in terms of this moment, there's -- there's not much going on, except for the processing part of this. So, I don't think it's going to have any impact on the case per se, but clearly, they're taking this seriously bringing in someone who is a certainly a hired gun in Georgia.

BERMAN: So Jonathan, we've spoken a lot about secret service before and the role that they play protecting a president, a former president and you've convinced me that agents do their job, all they see is the job in front of them. However, I don't think it's in the Secret Service handbook how to protect a former president who needs to surrender four times.

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I mean, listen to arrest number four, but this isn't a wash, rinse, repeat. The Secret Service has to look at each of these events individually because they all represent a different type of threat environment that they're bringing to protectee.

[09:10:06]

Right, what type of action is taking place whether it's a court action, a rally, or a speech doesn't matter, the Secret Service protective methodology never changes. And that's protecting. In this case, former President Donald Trump,360 degrees, all directions at all times. The location, the jail, that represents some -- some challenges. But those challenges are easily worked out with law enforcement partners, you know specifically the sheriff to and it's in the sheriff's interest in the Secret Service interest to have the former president process as quickly as possible. Enter, do the business in front of the -- in front of the judge at the jail and to depart as quickly as possible.

BERMAN: So, we will see over the course of the next several hours and he's doing this in prime time, if there is a mug shot taken, if it will be released. We have seen the mug shots of many of his co- defendants so far, including Rudy Giuliani, among others, Jenna Ellis, who was smiling in her mugshot. What we haven't seen is perp walks, right.

I mean, so how would you assess how public the Fulton County team has made this process? Are they respecting the process? Or are they trying to make it public?

WACKROW: No, I think what you're going to see is the Secret Service, you know, coming into the facility with the President, I mean, again, think about this, a defendant is actually protected by the U.S. Secret Service. So, they want to make this, they want to keep the public, the press and the protectee, all separated. They want to be able to bring the protectee in, you'll privately go -- do the business in front processing and get out. Now, the wildcard here is what we have seen in the past, which is upon departure going back to the airport, are we going to do what's known as an Off The Record movement, where the President takes in ceases this moment to capitalize on a PR moment, right? Hey, I've been arrested the fourth time, you know, we all know the narrative that he's you know, could represent. That's the challenge not just for the Secret Service, but the Atlanta PD, local law enforcement again, because could someone with nefarious intent, capitalize on that moment to cause harm.

BERMAN: So maybe a challenge for Donald Trump's lawyers as well, that wildcard moment you were talking about there, Jim. Because as part of the bond agreement, Donald Trump's legal team has agreed to restrictions on what he can say about the Atlanta case. The defendant shall perform no act to intimidate any person known to him or her to be a co-defendant or witness in this case. And there's a whole bunch of other restrictions on him.

Now, one of the things we just don't know if he will choose to talk tonight after he surrenders. What's the jeopardy for him? If he does this, particularly while he's still in Georgia after having just agreed to these restrictions?

SCHULTZ: Like while he's still in Georgia, certainly, there's some issue there, a judge could haul him back into court, if he wants, if the judge wants to. That can happen while he's outside of Georgia as well and haul him back into court. He could be admonished by the court, he could be held in contempt of the order of the court. There are a number of things can happen. But how -- what -- what does that mean, practically speaking in a state court case, not as much as it does in the federal court case, quite frankly.

And I think the judge is going to be very strict with this. You know, I think it'll be very hard with a candidate for the President of United States to try to restrict him as much as his lawyers will be beating on him to make sure that he's not violating these orders. That's a tall order for a lawyer representing Donald Trump.

BERMAN: And I want to ask you about the news we just reported about, you know, Mark Meadows and Jeffrey Clark trying to get their cases moved to federal court, they had a ruling go against them that had to do with whether or not they actually have to turn themselves in surrender here. What does that portend in terms of being able to move the case to federal court?

SCHULTZ: So, I don't know that the impact of this ruling has a lot to do with whether it goes to federal court or not. What the judge said was they want to have -- the judge wants to have an evidentiary -- evidentiary hearing. And what that means that they're going to hear testimony and make a determination as to whether it should be in federal court, or state court.

And I don't think this -- the fact that the judge ruled that, hey, you have to show up, be processed, be arrested in Georgia before that takes place, I don't think means a whole lot in terms of what how they're going to decide this federal case because they want to hear testimony.

BERMAN: All right. Well, we will see if we see them over the course of the next 24 hours. Jim Schultz, (INAUDIBLE), great to see you. Thank you.

WAKCROW: Jon Wackrow.

BERMAN: Nice to see you both and name you correctly. Appreciate it.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us. They came, they saw, they debated, and they definitely went on the attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT.

(CROSSTALK)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Under your watch --

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The reality is --

HALEY: -- (INAUDIBLE) America unless you have no foreign policy experience. And it shows.

RAMASWAMY: And you know what --

HALEY: It shows.

RAMASWAMY: -- the policy experience that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The big moments from the Republican debate stage last night, who stood out, who got lost in the mix and what it all means for all of them today?

Plus, more questions than answers still about the cause behind that spectacular plane crash that appears to have killed Yevgeny Prigozhin, the man who led the failed rebellion against Vladimir Putin now presumed dead.

[09:15:12]

And a gunman opens fire at a biker bar in Southern California. Three people were killed, six others were wounded. We have more details coming in on this mass shooting.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Today, former President Donald Trump will be arrested for the fourth time this year. Last night, eight of his rivals faced off without him at the first Republican debate. But they could not help saying his name in his absence. A defining moment of the night came when the moderators asked the candidates if they would still support Donald Trump as the party's nominee even if he's convicted. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Would you still support him as your party's choice? Please raise your hand if you would?

[09:20:08]

Just -- hold on. So just to just be clear, Governor Christie, you were kind of late to the game there.

CHRISTIE: No, (INAUDIBLE) --

BAIER: But you raise your hand.

CHRISTIE: No, I'm doing this. Look, I'm doing this, not this.

BAIER: But I know you didn't.

CHRISTIE: No, just --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: OK, made clear six of the eight raise their hand. CNN's Jessica Dean joins us from Milwaukee this morning.

Jessica Trump's rivals for the White House tried their best to really set themselves apart mostly from Biden, but also from Donald Trump. But were they successful at all?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, these eight candidates are really looking forward to this moment as they continue to trail Donald -- Donald Trump by double digits in the best-case scenario there, and any of the polling that we have seen.

And so, what was interesting about last night, Sara, a couple of things. Number one, of course, the former president was looming over that debate stage, even though he wasn't there. However, they didn't even get to him until one hour into the two-hour debate. So, they were able to talk about some key policy issues where those candidates do have differences of opinions and can contrast them -- contrast themselves with one another that includes abortion, and perhaps the federal abortion ban where they stand on that, on foreign policy on issues like that.

But to your point, that clip you just showed does underscore where the Republican Party is right now, as the former president, who is by far the leading contender in the frontrunner in this race is turning himself in later today on his fourth indictment in just the last several months.

One other thing that was interesting is that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' camp really set the scene for last night as if he was going to take a lot of the incoming. That's what they thought, that's how they wanted this -- the scene set going in. But what actually happened is that we saw most of the attacks going to the Vivek Ramaswamy. He's this tech entrepreneur who's starting to get a lot of attention in the race, and we saw the rivals really piling on him.

Here, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now is not the time for on- the-job training. We don't need to bring in a rookie, we don't need to bring in people without experience.

RAMASWAMY: Let us be honest, as Republicans, I'm the only person on the stage who isn't bought and paid for, so, I can say this. The climate change agenda --

(CROSSTALK)

CHRISTIE: Someone's got to stop normalizing this conduct. OK? Now -- and now, whether or not -- whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of President of the United States.

HALEY: We have to face the fact that Trump is the most disliked politician in America, we can't win a general election that way.

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I understand why America is hurting. Biden's inflation is choking us.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will send Joe Biden back to his basement and we will reverse the decline of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So now, of course, the candidate is trying to maximize their time on stage last night, Sara, before Trump does what Trump does best, which is suck up the oxygen in the media space when he turns himself in and just a few hours. And then we look ahead to about a month from now where there will be another Republican debate. Will former President Donald Trump be there? we do know that the threshold to get on the stage will be higher. So, it's likely that the stage will have your candidate.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes. Even if they don't want to fall off those new rules, will definitely pick some people off there.

All right. Thank you so much, Jessica Dean, for that wrap up of the debate last night.

Kate? BOLDUAN: Joining us now for reaction to that Republican debate is the Democratic governor of Maryland, Wes Moore, who is also on President Biden's reelection campaign advisory board.

Governor, thank you very much for coming in.

GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): It's my pleasure.

BOULDAN: I know you were watching the debate last night. As a Democrat, first and foremost, who do you think had the best night on that stage?

MOORE: Well, I mean -- I can tell you, I don't think that anyone on the stage really reflected the values that I know I'm hearing in the state of Maryland or that many people around the country espouse. You know, when we think about where we are as a country, it's not -- we're hopeful about the future. It's not this dark dystopian view. And frankly, the main conversations that are taking place in my state in Maryland, are not conversations about at what point do we impose a national ban on abortion? It's not -- it's not is climate change a hoax? It's not questions of which of the -- which of the departments and agencies whose job it is to see and support every single person in our society. Are we in a rush to eliminate and get rid of?

And so, I just felt like last night was a -- it was a perfect example of they're not speaking to the hopes and the aspirations. And there's a playbook that they're all -- that all even their core or correlating to, but there's no plan behind that.

BOLDUAN: So, what I heard from Cedric Richmond who's also with the campaign, of course, we know well, ahead of the debate last night was that what they what -- what Democrats were expecting to see or what folks could expect to see from the Democratic perspective was going to be the MAGGA playbook on stage, even though Trump was not on the stage.

[09:25:12]

And when I heard when I heard that was for Joe Biden and for the reelection campaign and Democrats in '24, it's running a playbook of 2022, which showed some success for Democrats. Do you see that as what -- what you should -- what needs to be done?

MOORE: Well, I see in our race where you know, what I saw last night, (INAUDIBLE) was pretty familiar with from what I faced where I had an opponent who was spending their time talking about the past. Spend a time -- so I had an opponent who was spending time talking about how can we restrict, access restricted here.

BOLDUAN: You did hear some candidates up there trying very hard because they did not want to have to talk about Donald Trump saying, let's not talk about January 6th, let's talk about the future. You heard Nikki Haley, who really went out there and really pushed kind of more of a consensus candidate amongst those on stage talking about the need for looking for it. You heard Tim Scott, talking about an optimistic view of the future. MOORE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Was did anything on the stage surprise you?

MOORE: Well, I think you know, I did hear -- hear Governor Haley, talk about things like infrastructure and -- and job retraining, and job re-skilling. The powerful thing is, that is exactly what's happening right now, in partnership with the Biden administration, where you're seeing in in my state. We've made historic investments in partnership with the Biden ministration, on job retraining, on apprenticeship programs, trade programs, because we have some of the best four year colleges in the country in the state of Maryland. But I've also been very clear, we're going to end this myth that every single one of our students must attend one.

And so, you heard Governor Haley bringing that up. And the thing that I would say is, I agree. And that's why we're so excited about the work we're doing right now in partnership with the Biden administration to do that.

BOLDUAN: I'm going to talk about one another moment from -- from Nikki Haley actually. She was laying out and talking about the economy, she was laying out why she thinks she is the one to best fit to tackle the economy, more than anyone else with a surprising amount of candor. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: The truth is that Biden didn't do this to us. Our Republicans did this to us, too. You have Ron DeSantis, you got Tim Scott, you've got Mike Pence, they all voted to raise the debt. And Donald Trump added 8 trillion to our debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Hearing that from her surprise me, and I was also thinking about because your state is facing a tough economic reality right now. And you have been candid about it very recently about what your state is facing telling the Washington Post, there has been no growth. They're -- also saying, there's no excuse for falling behind, we have to make a choice that we actually want to win.

MOORE: That's right.

BOLDUAN: You owned it?

MOORE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Why isn't Joe Biden owning it more? Because for better or worse, in economy under a president they own for better or worse?

MOORE: Well, I think for a lot of it is, is that it's not just about owning it is the what's the plan. And I think about when you look at our state when I said that our state is falling behind because there's been zero economic growth within the state of Maryland over the past four years. And you look at a state like Pennsylvania, our neighbor, where they've had their economy grow by $22 billion, we're falling behind as a state. But what it also means is, what's the plan to focus and re -- re-energize and economy.

And so, I look at what's happening right now that we're doing in partnership with the Biden administration, where we've made historic investments and things like offshore wind, I want Maryland to be the offshore wind capital of this country. And if you look at the type of focus that we've had, and with the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act, that we've been able to employ tens of thousands of people that's going to generate employment for tens of thousands of people, a whole new economy that's going to help spur economic growth, when we're talking about you know, things like what does it mean to actually get more people involved inside of the workforce, where we Maryland is now the first in this country that has a service share option for all of our high school graduates, have a chance to have a living wage as they're entering into a workforce, focus on job training and focus on preparation for their futures.

So, it's about owning the situation, but also saying we got to make sure that we're aggressively investing in our future and building from the bottom up to make sure that everyone can benefit from our economic (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: Where's the plan that's from a governor, which is important because you do need to balance your budget that is important.

MOORE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Real quick, you don't want Donald Trump in the White House at all. After last night does the prospect of having anyone on that stage in the Oval Office scare you more than Donald Trump?

MOORE: I watched eight people who all raise their hand and say they would support someone regardless of they were convicted. I have a very difficult time taking instructions or -- or any forms of lecture about law and order or about respect of law ever again. Because we are -- we are -- we are literally watching a cult of personality, that then ends up dominating something that is not having any impact on the people in Westminster or West Baltimore.

And so, I -- when I think about what that prospect means, about having a return to this on normalcy and a normalizing of this type of behavior it just reinforces why I not just am excited to be able to have another four years.

[09:30:00]