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Trump Will Surrender at Fulton County Jail in Atlanta; House Judiciary Committee Expected to Launch Inquiry into Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis; Eight GOP Candidates Face Off in First Debate Without Trump. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 24, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: It is a historic day in America for all of the wrong reasons. An ex-president is going to jail to be booked for the fourth time this year. Donald Trump expected to arrive in Atlanta to face charges he tried to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia. And he's already shaking up his defense team. We'll have all the angles covered on this story ahead.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, who won the first Republican debate? Was it someone actually on the debate stage? And what is the line that's having the biggest impact the day after?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And the man who led a failed rebellion in Russia now presumed dead, supposedly killed in a very suspicious plane crash near Moscow. And the Kremlin is quiet as the world speculates.

I'm Kate Bolduan alongside with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is on CNN News Central.

SIDNER: A whirlwind round trip that will go down in history kicks off just hours from now. Roughly 845 miles separate former President Trump's New Jersey home from the jail in Georgia, where he will be formally booked on charges that accuse him of trying to steal the 2020 election in Georgia.

When Trump enters this Fulton County Jail that you see there, behind me live pictures, supporters will likely be outside cheering him on as sheriff's deputies take his fingerprints and then potentially take his first ever mug shot.

So far, 9 of 18 co-defendants have gone through the very process. As for those who have not, right now, the deadline to surrender, the clock is ticking. It's just 24 hours left to do so.

This a moment, 964 days in the making, when Trump demanded the Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger find 11,780 votes to let him win in that infamous phone call.

Now, there's a lot going on. So, let's get to it with Kristen Holmes. She is outside Trump's home in New Jersey. Kristen, first, what (INAUDIBLE) a last-minute switch, Trump is now changing his attorney there in Georgia.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That right, Sara. So, here is what we know. Drew Findling, who is the top attorney for former President Trump, in fact, he was part of the legal team that negotiated Trump's $200,000 bond, is being replaced by Steven Sadow.

Now, Sadow is a Atlanta-based defense attorney, criminal attorney, and I am told by Trump's sources that this is not about Findling's behavior in any way, anything about his performance, it's just about the fact that Sadow is such a well-known and good, they said, simply best defense attorney in Georgia.

Now, we have statement from Sadow and he says this. We look forward to the case being dismissed or, if necessary, an unbiased, open-minded jury finding the president not guilty. Prosecutions intend to advance or serve the ambitions of careers of political opponents of the president have no place in our justice system.

And, of course, we know, Sara, that Trump has not been hesitant to switch up his legal team even hours before a surrender. We know back in June, he changed his legal team, removing two of his top attorneys in that indictment into whether or not he mishandled classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.

SIDNER: Kristen Holmes, I know that Donald Trump will be taking that very road behind you on his way to the airport. We will be watching for that. I appreciate it and I'm glad you got the memo, green is in today. Kate and John?

BOLDUAN: Oops.

BERMAN: All right. With us now, CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. Elie, look, Donald Trump, he changes lawyers, it's happened before. But at a certain point, Drew Findling, he was well known Atlanta lawyer.

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I guess he's getting another.

BOLDUAN: He's getting a powerhouse.

BERMAN: He was a powerhouse. I guess he's getting another powerhouse lawyer. But does this tell us anything?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think that certain point is now. I think, look, it's one thing to keep changing out your White House staff, for example, but these lawyers have a massive task ahead of them to get ready for trial. They have to go through literally millions of documents, hours and hours of footage, talk to witnesses. And every time you change lawyer, you sort of set yourself back to square one.

So, we're just at the beginning. It's not unusual to see people maybe experiment or try out different lawyers. But now we're on the brink of an arraignment here, and Donald Trump, if I could give him advice, pick one and stick with it.

But why switch just hours? They say it has nothing to do with Findling's performance. Then what is it? Does it suggest that there are disagreements amongst the legal team? Did someone do a Google search, finally, of Findling and see that he said something bad about Donald Trump ten years ago? I mean, I don't get it.

HONIG: I would say a couple of possibilities. It could be strategic differences. Maybe the lawyers wanted to go one way, Trump wanted to go another way, presumably more aggressive, could be financial misunderstandings or differences, could be just a personality conflict.

So, this happens. People do change their lawyers. But, again, every time you do it, you're sort of setting your own cause back a little bit.

BERMAN: He's also done it in virtually every case. Honestly, we'd have to go through, but it's almost every case, he seems to switch lawyers.

Elie, in terms of what we're watching today, as Donald Trump travels from New Jersey to Atlanta and back again, one of the unknowns is will he talk. If he talks, where will he talk? And if he talks, what will he say? And there are, of course, the restrictions that are part of the bond order.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I have -- I was going to say half ass (ph). I wrote down some of them really quickly. No direct or indirect threats against co defendants, no threats against any witnesses, including unindicted co-conspirators, no threats against any victims that can include posts on social media, no communicating with other co defendants or witnesses.

HONIG: Yes, that's a lot of restrictions. Will he talk? I'll bet, yes. But, boy, it's going to be hard to comply with that order.

Now, let's keep in mind a couple of things. Donald Trump's team agreed to this order. The lawyers signed this. The big question to me is if he comes close to the line or if he crosses any of those lines, and it would not shock me if he does, are the prosecutors or the judge going to do anything about it? Because, let's be honest, he's already come close to or cross the line with the restrictions of some of the other cases. And to this point, no one has done anything.

But in a normal case, you would police this as a prosecutor. If someone got up there and defied order from the court, a bail order, you would go right back to the judge and say, he just violated this. I want at least to bring him in to warn him, maybe to up the sanctions.

BERMAN: If you're his attorneys, are you telling him, look, if you're going to do it, don't do it in Georgia, just don't do it right there because it's rubbing their noses in it? HONIG: Yes, I think that's a good point. I would beg him not to do it at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. I also think it's interesting that this order specifically contemplates social media and not just posts, but reposts. They know how he --

BOLDUAN: Yes, reposts as well.

Okay, so now add into this Kenneth Chesebro peeling off and now requesting -- putting a -- doing a filing to request a speedy trial. Okay, fine, but what does that do to all?

HONIG: So, this is a big deal. This could really throw a wrench into the D.A.'s plans here. There's 19 indicted defendants in this case. Kenneth Cheseboro has invoked his rights under Georgia law to a speedy trial. We talk about speedy trial. We say, oh, Jack Smith wants a speedy trial. It's the defendant's right.

And that's what Kenneth Cheseboro, who's a lawyer, is doing here. He's saying, under Georgia law, he has the right, if he insists on it, to have that trial start by October, by November. If that happens, there will be at least two trial groups. There will be an early group. It may just be him, it may be others, and there will be a later group. And you can bet Donald Trump wants to be in that later group, and the judge almost certainly can't force him into that early group.

And then what do you do if you're Trump's team? You sit back, you watch every minute of that first trial, you see all the government's witnesses, you see them cross-examined, you take notes. It's like seeing the other team's playbook opened up in front of you.

BERMAN: I was just thinking about the fact, it's the reason why Bill Belichick doesn't put out all the plays in the pre-season because he doesn't want the other teams to see them for the regular reason.

HONIG: It's the reason Bill Belichick spies on other teams' practices.

BOLDUAN: I was going to say he just spies on other practices.

BERMAN: There's that too. I wasn't going to say that.

BOLDUAN: And wears cut off sweatshirts, which bothers me.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, you better go now. Thank you very much for being with us.

SIDNER: Only John brings up football while we're talking about law. But it's okay. He's good at it.

All right, joining us now is former Homeland Security adviser to Mike Pence, Olivia Troye. Thank you so much for being here.

We're going to go into, in just a few hours here, watching an ex president turn himself in at the Fulton County Jail. Obviously, he, I think, at every turn, no matter what happens, turns this or tries to turn this into some sort of political gain. What do you see happening here? What do you think he is going to do going forward to get more support?

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER TO MIKE PENCE: Well, first, I think, publicly, he will put on a very strong front.

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I think no doubt that, personally, behind the scenes, he's humiliated. This is something I'm sure that he hates that he has to go through this publicly. But I think, given Donald Trump's persona, he'll double down on it, actually, and use it as a moment to double down on the claims that everyone's conspiring against him and that this is the ongoing witch hunt that he has been telling the American people over and over for, well, I would say for years now, that everyone's out to get him. And I think that that's what you'll continue to see.

And, unfortunately, that message, with his most loyal supporters, continues to resonate. So, I think you'll see the pomp and circumstance surrounding it.

SIDNER: I want to talk to you about the threats here. First of all, we know that there is a planned rally somewhere outside the court or the jail. There are a lot of, obviously, officers that are out there because the ex-president is coming to surrender.

But I want to talk about some of the threats that have been made against those who have taken part in these trials. The grand jury had, potentially, their addresses and faces plastered on the dark web. You also had the judge in the D.C. case, her life threatened and someone arrested there. What do you see happening there? Do you think that his constant attacks of the D.A. and others is really putting people in a dangerous spot?

TROYE: Absolutely. I mean, look, Trump and his inner circle know exactly what they're doing when it comes to this. I would say that this is a very dangerous thing. I have been very concerned for the lives of the jurors and everyone involved in this situation as this investigation continues. But all these people are just doing their public service. They're doing their civic duties, and they're carrying it out.

I was concerned when their names were released. I know that that's Georgia process, but we've seen what happens when Trump incites his followers and others, put others in the media, others in far right publications, and their supports, the dark web, all of these social media things. People get doxxed, and those threats are real. We've seen people try to carry these things out.

So, I remain concerned for these people and I hope that they have the proper support in terms of security and the proper measures that they're supposed to be taking to protect themselves. And we'll see.

I don't know what will happen at this rally. I think people have seen others be held accountable for their actions on January 6th. I think they've learned some lessons from that. But I am concerned about one- offs and continuing threats to these people in terms of their homes and their families.

SIDNER: Yes. And the people that are being threatened, like the grand jurors, they don't have money to have security. So, this is a really important point that people need to understand. They're just doing their civic duty.

Thank you so much, Olivia Troye. I appreciate it.

And just to mention, we are looking at live pictures outside the Fulton County Jail, where, later on today, Donald Trump, the ex- president, is supposed to be turning himself in. There are now less than 24 hours for everyone to surrender for the deadline. John?

BERMAN: Yes. Thanks, Sara. And on the very day that Donald Trump turns himself in, Congressional Republicans preparing to launch an investigation into the Fulton County district attorney. What we know about this strategy.

And the mercenary chief who led the revolt against Russian President Vladimir Putin is presumed to be dead. So, was Putin behind this mysterious plane crash that took him down?

And China now retaliating after Japan begins releasing radioactive wastewater from the Fukushima Power Plant into the Pacific.

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BOLDUAN: A new investigation is coming. A source now tells CNN the Republican-led House Judiciary Committee is expected to announce a congressional investigation into Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. That could happen as soon as today.

Republican lawmakers are likely to lean on a similar line of questioning as they used when they launched an investigation also into Manhattan D.A. Alvin Bragg after he indicted Donald Trump.

CNN's Melanie Zanona has much more on this from the Hill. She's joining us now. Melanie, what is the Republican plan here?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, this is a very familiar playbook for House Republicans, Kate, which is investigate the investigators. And we are just getting this in right now that they did officially send a letter and are opening up investigation into the Fulton County D.A., Fani Willis, accusing her of politicizing her efforts.

And the two things that Republicans really want to know is, first, they want to know whether there was any coordination or communication between her office and Special Counsel Jack Smith, who indicted Trump on two other cases. That is something that Fani Willis has already flat out denied.

And then the second thing that they want to know is whether any federal funds were used in her state-level probe of Donald Trump and election interference.

But then they're also looking at doing some other things a little bit more down the line. So, the House Judiciary Committee is also looking at a bill that would allow former and current presidents to move either civil or criminal cases from state court to federal court.

That was something that actually was first introduced after Trump was indicted by the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, but it has gained a new steam in the wake of this latest Georgia indictment.

But Kate, we should point out here that lawmakers don't have a ton of jurisdiction over state-level issues. And even on the federal level, they have been running into some resistance in their efforts to try to intervene in these ongoing criminal cases.

But for most Republicans, this is about showing Trump that they're doing everything in their power to defend him.

BOLDUAN: Yes, because that is a big question of what can they actually do, and as you point out, they don't have much jurisdiction. But what about on the state level?

ZANONA: So, I was speaking to Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's a Georgia Republican here in Capitol Hill.

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And she told me that she believes that there will be a state-level investigation as well, that they're pushing for a special session, that Republicans in the state legislature, they're also calling to impeach Fani Willis. But, again, that is a very high threshold, just like it is in Congress. So, we'll have to wait and see. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. It's good to see you, Melanie. Thank you for that. John?

BERMAN: All right. So, for one brief section, January 6th and Donald Trump were discussed in the Republican presidential debate.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that Mike Pence did the right thing on January 6th?

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): So, here's what we need to do. We need to end the weaponization of these federal agents, and I will do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not the question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not the question.

DESANTIS: I know, but here's the thing. This election is not about January 6th of 2021. It's about January 20th of 2025, when the next president is going to take office.

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I think the American people deserve to know whether everyone on this stage agrees that I kept my oath to the Constitution that day. There's no more important duty. So, answer the question.

DESANTIS: I've answered this before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, yes?

DESANTIS: Mike did his duty. I got no beef with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now is Republican Presidential Candidate and former Texas Congressman Will Hurd. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us tonight.

What did you think of Ron DeSantis' answer there? What was it an answer?

WILL HURD, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it wasn't an answer. And, unfortunately, at a moment when everybody had a chance to show that they're actually running against Donald Trump, they failed to take advantage of that opportunity at times.

Last night, it seemed like we were watching a Real Housewives reunion on Bravo rather than a Republican primary debate. And I think we saw last night a lot of people on the stage that have talent, but there was a lack of vision. And there's a lot of people that are not running against Donald Trump. They're running to be his vice president.

BERMAN: Real Housewives? What do you mean about --

HURD: The name calling, the back and forth, the -- there was -- for me, I wanted -- an 18-year-old kid who's going to vote for the first time, were they going to be able to watch this debate and try to understand who the next leader of the free world is going to be? And did they walk away with some trust in one of these candidates? And I don't think that was achieved.

I think there was a lot of talking about problems, but there weren't talking about solutions. How are we going to have unprecedented peace at time that the Chinese government is trying to surpass the United States of America as a global superpower? We got to have alliances.

And we got to make sure America continues to be a leader in advanced technologies, like A.I., quantum computing, synthetic biology. And we also got to make sure that we move supply chains to a place where we don't have to rely on China. These were some of the solutions that the American people wanted to see.

BERMAN: Who won the debate last night? Again, I think Nikki Haley had some strong moments. But the fact that she raised her hand in the end and said that she would continue to support Donald Trump even if he was convicted, to me, that's just unacceptable.

If the GOP is going to be the party of law and order, then we have to make sure we allow our courts to work. And then if somebody is convicted by a jury of their own peers, we need to be supporting that jury.

I think one of the things Vivek had a lot of focus and attention afterwards, but come on, you believe 9/11 is a hoax, you think Russia is not a threat, you think climate change is not real? That is not a serious candidate, and that's going to -- we can't win a general election that way. Oh, and also you want to remove the rights of people to vote to changing the age of 25?

So, if we want to make sure that the GOP prevents a trend that has happened for the last 20 years, and that's losing the popular vote, we have to be articulating a vision that can be attractive to Independents and Democrats who are sick and tired of the direction that the country is going.

BERMAN: How do you explain what seemed to be a pile-on on Vivek Ramaswamy at some point?

HURD: Well, I think the folks are believing that he's on the move and he's gone from 1 to 9 percent in the elections. I think he's a pretty bad lounge act of Donald Trump and is trying to think that he's going to be able to be a new version of Donald Trump.

But, unfortunately, the truth is you do not win an election by mimicking someone who has lost. Donald Trump is a proven loser. He hasn't won an election since 2016. And when you're trying to be a clone of someone who's always in the race -- already in the race, you're never going to be successful.

BERMAN: Had you been on the stage -- and you did not meet the threshold to go on the stage, you also would not have signed the pledge? You refused to sign the pledge, so you weren't going to go on that stage no matter what. But had you been there, what would you have said to Vivek Ramaswamy?

HURD: Well, I would have said to Vivek, number 9/11 was real. 3,000 people died on that day and thousands were injured.

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The truth is America should not be kissing the butt of war criminals like Vladimir Putin. I would have said that we should be defending our friends, like Taiwan, and not being willing to let the Chinese government take them over.

To me, that's just absolutely unacceptable. And, yes, he's even said himself, he's only been paying attention to these issues for the last six months, and it showed -- it definitely showed last night.

BERMAN: Yevgeny Prigozhin appears dead today. Suspiciously, his plane fell from the sky, which is the type of thing that many people have been predicting for some time. As a presidential candidate, what do you think is the right message to be sending about Vladimir Putin?

HURD: Well, the right message about Vladimir Putin is he's a war criminal. And you have a 1 in 11 million chance of dying in a plane wreck. And two months after Prigozhin tries to overthrow Vladimir Putin, he just miraculously falls out of the sky. And there's somebody happened to be in a field recording it. Come on. This is one more example of how you cannot trust Vladimir Putin.

And we should be doing everything within our power to help the Ukrainians win the war. And win the war means pushing the Russians out of all of Ukraine to include Crimea and the Donbas. This is something that Joe Biden doesn't believe in.

And for 5 percent of the DOD budget, the United States of America has been able to help the Ukrainians dismantle the Russian military, and we haven't had to send our sons, daughters, or spouses. To me, that sounds like a pretty good deal.

The issue is not about the size of the support, it's the speed. And we should be getting all the equipment to the Ukrainians in order for them to win this war.

BERMAN: Former Congressman Will Hurd, nice to see you in person. Thanks so much for coming on.

HURD: Thank you.

BERMAN: Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Coming up two months ago, Yevgeny Prigozhin was leading an attempted coup against Russia. Now, he's presumed dead in a suspicious plane crash. The world now asking, was it an accident or something much more sinister?

And let's take some live pictures of that Fulton County Jail. You see them there. We are expecting to see Donald Trump and some of his co- defendants turn themselves in. They have 24 hours now before the new deadline. The former president expects to show up today. We'll be watching ahead.

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