Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Prigozhin Presumed Dead In Plane Crash 2 Months After Mutiny; Most Attacks In GOP Debate Aimed At Newcomer Ramaswamy; Japan Releasing Treated Fukushima Wastewater. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 24, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:31:55]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The mercenary boss for the group behind a coup attempt in Russia earlier this summer now believe to be dead. Yevgeny Prigozhin was reportedly on this plane. Look at these pictures, it plummeted out of the sky on Wednesday and it was captured on camera. You see it there going right past what looks like some sort of tower as it goes down and it smashes into the ground at a very high rate of speed. It then bursts into flames.

According to the flight manifest, seven passengers and three crew members were on board that plane. In addition to Prigozhin according to Russian authorities, two of his top lieutenants were also passengers. None of the remains have been identified, but they have been taken off to a forensic lab for testing.

In the 24 hours following the crash, the Kremlin has remained silent about the incident. Vladimir Putin was at an event on Wednesday when the news broke, but neither he nor his team have said a word about it.

I'm joined now by the Founding Partner and Washington correspondent of Puck, Julie Ioffe. Julie Ioffe, thank you so much for coming on.

I want to talk to you first about this. I want to show this picture of the 22 or so people who have either died or been poisoned or been jailed during this Putin regime. Many of them political dissidents who have spoken, only spoken against Putin. What are the chances that Prigozhin died in an accident not in something else that is that is backed by Putin?

JULI IOFFE, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Well, two things. First of all, I think it's very unlikely that he died in an accident. And the reason is, the people you showed up on the screen are actually two different categories of people. Some are actual dissidents, or competition for power pretenders to power. And then there are other people like Alexander Litvinenko, the FSB agent who defected and was poisoned with polonium, like Prigozhin who were seen, not as dissidents or critics, but as traitors. And that Putin has said repeatedly is something that is completely unforgivable. And it's what he said on the morning of January 24th, when he addressed the nation. And he said, those who have taken the path of betrayal of treachery, will be met with punishment. It is something he has constantly said is unforgivable.

And so, the fact that on the second -- two-month anniversary to the day, that if Yevgeny Prigozhin launched his so-called March of Fairness on Moscow, that his plane explodes out of the sky, the idea that he is anything but a traitor being punished for his treachery is, I think, slim to none.

SIDNER: Yes, all the signs are there. And certainly, it's a message to people in Russia of course, as well, those who oppose Putin. I do want to ask you about Yevgeny Prigozhin's background. I know that you have written an article, it's really good that he first he didn't want to be known as anything other than a caterer, anything other than, you know, that the chef for Putin. Tell us about him.

[10:35:05]

IOFFE: Well, Yevgeny Prigozhin is a former convict who served a long time and Soviet jails for what -- we would say are petty crimes, but they were actually quite vicious. And afterwards he started going into the restaurant business, he did, in fact, become a caterer but the catering business, you know that the fact that he became known as "Putin Chef" was, in some ways, a tongue and cheek title, because the catering business was actually a front. He was supposed to be providing meals to schoolchildren in Moscow and St. Petersburg, to the police, to the army. But in fact, all that money hundreds of millions of dollars, were going right out the back door to fund Wagner, this private military company that was active in eastern Ukraine in 2014, and Syria in 2015. All over the African continent, places where the Russian government wanted to have influence but wanted to also have plausible deniability.

And the food was often so bad that Putin's caterer provided that in 2018, hundreds of children in Moscow got dysentery, because none of the money was actually going to food. But he was also let's recall involved in trying to influence the 2016 presidential election here, and he was indicted by Robert Mueller in 2018. And he has always -- he had always denied it -- he had denied any connection to Wagner. But in the last year, he started bragging about it, including bragging about interfering, meddling in the U.S. presidential election.

SIDNER: Julie Ioffe, thank you for that deep background on him. We have not seen confirmation that he died in that crash. But we are waiting to hear what the Russian authorities say and what can be believed. Appreciate all of your reporting on this.

John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So how much did Donald Trump gain on the debate stage he wasn't on last night or lose? New fallout this morning.

And Trump supporters are starting to show up outside the jail where Donald Trump is due to arrive in just a few hours.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:46]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Republican presidential debate is in the books the first one at least. And it was a battle, a battle against the clock, a battle to speak over the audience and certainly a battle against each other on stage. And sometimes tried to battle against the front runner Donald Trump who decided to skip the big night.

(BEGIN VIDEOT CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Someone's got to stop normalizing this conduct. OK? Now, this is the great thing about this country, booing is allowed. But it doesn't change the truth. It doesn't change the truth.

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to support somebody who's been convicted of a serious felony or who has this is disqualified under our Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Another candidate who found himself center stage and the center of many testy moments, the Vivek Ramaswamy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is the man (INAUDIBLE) --

(CROSSTALK)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There you have it.

HALEY: Under your watch --

RAMASWAMY: So, the reality is --

HALEY: -- you (INAUDIBLE) you have no foreign policy experience and it shows.

RAMASWAMY: And you know what there's a foreign policy.

HALEY: It shows.

RAMASWAMY: Everybody's gotten their memorize pre prepared slogans out of the way we can actually have a real discussion now. The reality and the fact that (INAUDIBLE).

MIKE PENCE (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is there one of yours?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So, what is the reality today after last night? What does last night mean for the race? Joining me now Terry Sullivan, former campaign manager for Marco Rubio's 2016 presidential campaign, co- founder of Firehouse Strategies. And Lanhee Chen, who is the public policy director for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. It's great to have you guys here. Let's talk first, best moments of the night, Lanhee, you think it is Nikki Haley's answer on abortion? Let me play a portion of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: Can't we all agree that we should ban late term abortions? Can't we all agree that we should encourage adoptions? Can't we all agree that doctors and nurses who don't believe in abortion shouldn't have to perform them? Can't we all agree that contraception should be available? And can't we all agree that we are not going to put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty if she gets an abortion?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Lanhee, why does this one stick out so much to you?

LANHEE CHEN, FMR PUBLIC DIRECTOR FOR MITT ROMNEY: Kate, I think it's because if your basic idea coming out of this debate is who is going to be the most credible in a general election, who's going to be able to take out Joe Biden in November. And that's the case you're making. And I think that's the essence at least part of the essence of Nikki Haley's candidacy. She did well to give an answer that will appeal to general election audiences. And I think that was the answer you heard her give last night.

I think overall, her performance last night was quite good in the sense that she actually presented a case for why she ought to be the Republican nominee. She presented herself as someone who could be electable and she was different. She was a breath of fresh air on that stage. And it can be hard to stand out.

As Terry and I know, when you prepare candidates for debates like this, it is really about how do you get separation? How do you show yourself to be different? And I think she did that last night.

BOLDUAN: Terry, can you give me your overall take? Because I'm gathering, you're not impressed with what you saw out -- out there. If there was not a best moment, what did you see?

TERRY SULLIVAN, PARTNER, FIREHOUSE STRATEGIES: Well, I look I think it was an amazing first debate of the 2024 Republican nomination fight. Last night nobody -- I mean nobody laid a glove on the guy with 50% and frankly even more surprising is nobody went after Ron DeSantis really who's -- who's in second place. It was literally a fight amongst a bunch of people who are in the single digits attacking other people who were in the single digits. And that was a little bit perplexing.

[10:45:23]

And so, I'm not sure on the strategy there. Look, in 2016, we fought to be the last person standing against Donald Trump, that strategy didn't work great, then there's no education in the second kick of a mule. I'm not sure it's going to work this time for these guys.

BOLDUAN: So, the DeSantis factor surprised you as well Lanhee. Why do you guys think that, that people didn't go after him? Is it more of a -- I don't know? Is it almost like sad for him that they didn't? Or did he make out well, because of it?

CHEN: I mean, I thought he made out well, because of it. But look, it's a little weird, because I think there's only going to be one alternative to Donald Trump, there's not going to be five, there's going to be one person. And so, I don't think that you can be in the position of ceding that ground. And right now, Ron DeSantis, is in that number two spot, he is in the number two spot in a lot of state polling, in the national polling. So, he would be the natural target. And if I were giving advice, I would say you probably got to do something to go at DeSantis.

He came out last night untouched, which basically means it was a win for him, he was able to essentially continue cruising where he is. He was able, I think, to address some questions about his campaign. And so, I'm just -- I am a little confused about why the candidates, why the other candidates didn't come after him.

BOLDUAN: Terry, one thing that stuck, that stuck out to me it was how much there seemed to be an appetite on that stage to voice opposition, to on some level to continue sending U.S. aid and money to Ukraine. It seems just a big shift among people that relatively speaking are pulling pretty high in the Republican, you know, a Republican leaders of the party, if you will. What do you see in that?

SULLIVAN: You know, that's been a divide within the party that's been growing, let's say real policy divide within the party that's been growing for a while between the, what it would, you know, some people call the Neo-cons and the more isolationist. And -- and so that's a trend that has continued and it's become a little bit more mainstream. So, it's a real divide. And -- and Donald Trump gives a lot of voice to those more isolationist views. And that has brought more of those populists into the party, that that I'm looking at his slogan is "America First."

So, I think there is a divide between more of the hawks were more aggressive on foreign policy, and more isolationist, and that's just traditionally within the party over the last decade or more.

BOLDUAN: Terry -- Terry, final thoughts from both of you, but let me start with you, Terry. Vivek Ramaswamy what happened? What do you think of his performance? What's different for him today?

SULLIVAN: You know, he survived last night he did well, he got roughed up pretty, pretty well, it's pretty surprising to see a guy come from nowhere, his first debate ever and get attacked by you know, the former Vice President of United States, governors, everyone else. And, and he survived it and did well had a lot of good one liners, a lot of viral moments. He had a few gaps, but, but I'd be very happy if I were his team on his, his performance last night.

BOLDUAN: Lanhee, these debates early on, and you know, as you move through the -- through the primaries, it's winnowing the field, it's narrowing the field is kind of what part of the all of this is about? Do you think the field narrows or will narrow as a result of what you saw on that stage last night?

CHEN: No, I don't think so. I mean, I think everyone's got a reason to stay in and absent, you know, running out of money, which I think will happen to a few of these candidates. They are going to continue to be in it, because every single time they appear on the debate stage, it's another two hours essentially of free publicity, of being up there, making the case and if you're someone like Vivek Ramaswamy, or someone else is probably not going to be the nominee, in my view, then what you're doing essentially is promoting your own brand. And that's what these presidential campaigns unfortunately in many cases have become about.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and it does seem at least what we know is -- what we know of presidential history. The bigger the field, the more benefits, Donald Trump especially when you're looking at this field and how long they stick in it.

Guys, it's great to have you on. Thanks so much

Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Treated radioactive wastewater from Japan's Fukushima nuclear site is being released into the ocean. China, furious. We'll discuss this, next.

And take a look there of those live pictures of the jail that former President Trump will be formally booked and for the first time his mug shot is expected to be taken. Today is the day, he will be arrested for the fourth time this year.

Stay with us as we watch the developments there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:54:14]

BERMAN: This morning Japan is releasing treated radioactive wastewater from the Fukushima nuclear power plant into the Pacific Ocean. Now this release will last 17 days. And China is not happy. China is responding by banning all seafood out of Japan.

CNN's Paula Hancocks joins us now with why some of these other nations surrounding Japan will some have different responses. Why is China so unhappy?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, we've seen a very fierce reaction from Beijing. They say that they are concerned about the health of their people, about the health of maritime life. But what we've heard from Japan is that this plan has been in the works for years. They say they simply are running out of space to store this treated radioactive water.

[10:55:04]

Now the IAEA, the nuclear watchdog has tested the water they have looked at the plans, they say it's all within the international safety standards, which Japan concurs with as well. But as for Beijing, they are not happy. Listen to this response from the foreign ministry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANG WENBIN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (through translation): It is unjustified, unreasonable and unnecessary for Japan to push through the ocean discharge plan. We urge Japan not to shift the risk of nuclear pollution onto the rest of humanity in pursuit of its selfish interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCKS: It's also been protests here in South Korea as consumers in a recent survey said almost two-thirds of them would stop eating seafood after the water was released. John.

BERMAN: All right, Paula Hancocks, thank you for covering this for us. Talk to you again soon.

Sara? Kate? Me? Coming up, on the day that Donald Trump is headed to Georgia to face arrest, he decided to swap out his lead attorney. More on the moves going on behind the scenes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)