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Trump To Surrender Hours From Now In Atlanta; Biden's Age Brought Up During GOP Debate; Former Top Trump DOJ Official Jeffrey Clark Strikes $100,000 Bail Agreement In Fulton County; U.S. Officials: No Indication Missile Downed Prigozhin's Plane; Putin Breaks Silence On Presumed Prigozhin Plane Crash; Kurt Volker, Former U.S. Ambassador To NATO, Discusses Prigozhin Plane Crash Death, President Putin, Ukraine Funding Hot Topic At GOP Debate; Police On High Alert Ahead of Trump Surrender In Atlanta. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired August 24, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- doesn't want to support Israel. He has the worst ideas. But man, he's got great delivery and I guess that's all that counts these days.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: I want to get to some of those issues there.

But before we do, Scott Jennings, Trump is going to walk into the Fulton County jail this afternoon to be booked, to be arrested on multiple charges. He may very well be fingerprinted, have his mugshot taken.

I know he has been successfully fundraising off of these things with his most loyal base. But at the end of the day, is that actually a good look for him?

Does that actually strengthen him not just in the primaries but beyond? Or is this a difficult and damaging day for the former president?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it depends on your audience. With Republicans -- I mean, Donald Trump treats being arrested like the Super Mario Brothers treat red mushrooms.

I mean, it makes him bigger and stronger every time it happens because even -- because even the Republicans who don't want to vote for him believe that he is being politically persecuted.

I know tons of Republicans who have no intention of ever voting for Trump again, who still think he's getting a raw deal.

If you just look inside the Republican Party, the polling is clear, the fundraising is clear. Yes, it has strengthened him.

But go back to what I said before. Among general election voters, this is a terrible look. And if he were to be convicted, it is a terrible day for him. And I'll just say, on the timeline, there's every chance he could

become the de facto nominee, say, in March or April, then get convicted of a crime over the summer.

And then everybody goes to the convention in August and they're asking the Republican delegates to nominate a convicted felon, when we know the American people don't want that?

It is very so overall damaging. But in the short term for him, it's obviously popped for him.

SCIUTTO: And we might have a trial sooner than expected. Or at least that's what the Fulton County D.A. is asking for in October.

Van, President Biden's age came up last night. And this morning. Nikki Haley said, "There is no way Joe Biden is going to finish out the next term. We can't have an 81-year-old president. We have to have a new generational leader."

As you know, polls show it's not just a Republican position but Americans do have concerns about his age and, frankly, they would like choices other than not just Trump and Biden.

If there is no credible effort now for the possibility of an alternative Democratic candidate, should there be in your view?

JONES: Well, that's a tricky one. I think people are concerned about Joe Biden. They really are.

I mean, Democrats, they talk behind their hand. Nobody wants to go on TV and say it because we all like to be able to go to barbecues and house parties.

But people are concerned. And I do think that anybody but Trump going up against someone like Biden, given some of Trump's challenges recently, probably might have a good shot and could make that age an issue.

The problem is, when you put Biden up against Trump, Trump has so many other issues, he's not that much younger, that it becomes a little bit of a wash and then people just kind of go back to their respective corners.

SCIUTTO: But before we go, just quickly, if I can, Scott, because this stood out to me on the climate issue.

How is it, in the year 2023, when the science has shown this for decades, and that's not partisan science, that's just the science -- and by the way, Maui has burned, the Arctic is melting, hurricanes hitting southern California, all these weather events tied to a warming planet we're seeing every day -- how is it many in the party won't address this honestly?

JENNINGS: Well, I think there's different degrees of how they want to address it. You saw a huge gap between Ramaswamy's answer on this and, say, Nikki Haley last night. And obviously Republicans have often believed that people on the

progressive left have created alarm about this when the evidence doesn't warrant it.

I would just say, though, as it came up in the debate, Ramaswamy made the big yet point of calling it a hoax.

If you go back in time five months and pull up his interview that he gave, he was all in on climate change saying it existed and it was caused by human behavior.

And so I do think on this topic and a few others, but for him especially, there was a little bit of playing to the crowd.

But that's the problem with just saying what you think people in the room want to hear. Eventually, it catches up with you. And I suspect on that topic, given the video I've seen today, it's going to.

SCIUTTO: Good for you for fact-checking him there.

Scott Jennings, Van Jones, thanks so much to both of you.

JONES: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We have much more coverage of the surrender of former President Trump ahead.

And we are also keeping an eye on the aftermath of that plane crash in Russia, which may have killed the leader of Wagner -- of the Wagner mercenary army.

[13:34:36]

It's a crash that has many pointing fingers at Vladimir Putin. So find out what Putin is now saying. His first comments on the crash coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Breaking news. There's a lot of it. New details coming from the Fulton County courthouse.

Our Zachary Cohen is there.

Another agreement reached? What do we know?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Jim, a busy day here at the courthouse. Jeffrey Clark, the former Trump administration Department of Justice official, has agreed to a $100,000 bond agreement with the district attorney's office here.

Now, this obviously comes after Trump's former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows also reached a bond agreement for the same amount.

And you know, we've now reached the point where 18 of the 19 defendants in this case here in Georgia have agreed to a bond payment.

And we're now waiting for Jeffrey Clark, along with Mark Meadows, to surrender to the Fulton County jail, which is the next step after a bond agreement is reached.

Now, if you'll remember, Jeffrey Clark is a Justice Department lawyer who, at the end of the Trump administration, was really the only one in that building who was willing to go along with Trump's various claims about election fraud.

[13:40:07]

He wanted to pursue these various conspiracies about foreign interference and he was willing to really launch these investigations that others were not.

And Trump -- to the point where Trump almost made him the acting attorney general at one point, prompting the top official at the time to almost quit wholesale.

Jeffrey Clark, a key player in this broader effort to overturn the 2020 election, someone who Fani Willis in her indictment has really put at the center of some of these efforts to pressure Justice Department officials toward the end of Trump's tenure.

SCIUTTO: Zachary Cohen, there outside the Fulton County courthouse. We will continue to keep eyes on all events there.

We also have new -- we also have this new reporting in to CNN regarding the loss of that aircraft there yesterday carrying, apparently, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the leader of Wagner. A fiery crash.

U.S. officials telling myself and my colleagues, Oren Liebermann and Katie Bo Lillis, that, at its early stage of assessing this, there's no indication that a missile downed the Russian airplane.

U.S. officials said it has not seen information that the Embraer Legacy 600 aircraft was struck by either a surface-to-air missile or an air-to-air missile launched potentially from a Russian jet.

We should note the U.S. intelligence community has enormous resources to monitor and track such things. They can see via satellite and other means the launch of a missile from the ground or the air.

They can also detect -- this is the capability that's been used before in cases like this. They can detect explosions in the air as well.

But again, the reporting we're learning now is at this point the U.S. has not seen indications that a missile downed Prigozhin's plane.

We will continue to bring you details as we learn them.

Brianna?

KEILAR: Russian President Vladimir Putin has broken his silence about the presumed death of Wagner mercenary chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin, who is believed to have been killed in that plane crash yesterday.

Putin delivering a televised statement just a short time ago. He offered his condolences. He described Prigozhin as "a man of difficult fate but talented."

Investigators do remain on the scene right now. They're getting a closer look at this fallen plane debris that Russian state media says is scattered just over a mile across an open field.

And this new satellite image shared exclusively with CNN shows the crash site is at the edge of a forest clearing where most of the wreckage was found largely intact but with a missing wing.

Joining us now, we have Kurt Volker, former U.S. ambassador to NATO and former U.S. special representative for Ukraine negotiations. He's also a senior adviser on the Atlantic Council and a distinguished fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis.

Ambassador, thanks for being with us.

What do you think about this latest reporting that Jim has here where it appears that this is not a missile, at least that is what U.S. officials are believing, but it does look like it's intentional?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I can't speak to the new information that it is not a missile. I haven't seen what that is based on.

When you look at the original videos that came out, you see a smoke trail that appears to be short, small and curved as a missile might do. So it's not exactly clear what happened.

That being said, the way to think about this is the most obvious explanation, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. And this is where Vladimir Putin wants to eliminate Prigozhin because Prigozhin challenged his authority.

And this is something Vladimir Putin wants to do demonstrably and do so as a way to re-establish his power in Russia. And I think that is clearly what happened.

The mechanism, surface-to-air, air-to-air, bomb on the plane, which is very doubtful, those are things that, OK, we can investigate them. But let's not lose the big picture. Putin did this on purpose in order to re-establish his authority.

KEILAR: Let's talk about the big picture because this didn't happen in a vacuum. This happened amid a backdrop of Putin purging generals, including General Surovikin.

How should this, the death of Prigozhin as well, change how the U.S. and European allies relate to Vladimir Putin right now or understand his calculus about the war in Ukraine?

VOLKER: Well, hopefully, it doesn't change anything because, hopefully, we already understand that this is who he is. He is a mafia-like leader in charge of a state that has nuclear weapons.

He is ruthless. He kills his opponents, whether it's Litvinenko or Skripal or even people thrown out of buildings in Moscow or even one in Washington, D.C.

[13:44:58]

So we shouldn't change our calculus here. We should recognize that we are dealing with an authoritarian leader who believes it is his mission to rebuild the Russian empire.

And it is in America's interest to make sure that he is not able to do that because, if he does, it will begin to threaten our interests directly.

KEILAR: Right after Prigozhin's attempted revolt in June, a couple months ago, you said that Prigozhin, quote, "Popped the bubble of the Ukraine war ending."

Do you think that that's still the case now that he is dead and as we see this sort of purging of military leaders?

VOLKER: Yes, I do. Because I don't think we would be seeing Prigozhin being knocked off and this purging of military leaders unless there was a bigger strife going on under the surface.

So what I was saying in that article you're referring to is that this is the beginning of the end of Russia's war in Ukraine. The Russians have realized it's failing.

And Prigozhin is the one who said it publicly. He gained a lot of support domestically from military and civilian as he tried to move into Russia because he had said that. Because people knew that that was the truth.

So, yes, he may now be dead. Others may now be under arrest or dead as well. But this is evidence actually of more turmoil inside the system in Russia, which is what is ultimately going to bring an end to this war.

KEILAR: Big debate last night in the Republican primary. GOP candidates were asked about U.S. support for Ukraine, and here is what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR & DEBATE MODERATOR: Is there anyone on stage who would not support the increase of more funding to Ukraine?

(CROSSTALK)

BAIER: Would not support it.

(APPLAUSE)

(CHEERING) GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL) & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Europe needs to step up.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

DESANTIS: I mean, I would have Europe step up and do their job.

BAIER: Mr. Ramaswamy, you would not support an increase of funding to Ukraine?

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would not.

And I think this is disastrous --

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

RAMASWAMY: -- that we are protecting against an invasion across somebody else's border when we should use those same military resources to prevent across the invasion of our own southern border here in the United States of America.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So Ramaswamy, DeSantis playing to that. Trump, of course, wasn't on the stage. He's also hesitant in his support for Ukraine.

What do you think about what you heard?

VOLKER: Well, it's a false choice. Of course, we need to defend the southern border. And I think it is out of control. I think we do need to do more there.

But that doesn't mean that we should forsake our national security interests in order to do that.

It is in America's national security interests to see that Russian authoritarianism, imperialism and genocide is stopped in Ukraine before it goes somewhere else. It's a vital interest for us.

And the fact that we are seeing one of our major adversaries tear themselves apart based on our using 3 percent of our annual defense budget to help Ukraine, that is a bargain. I don't see a problem with that.

So I think we need to do both, not view them as alternatives.

KEILAR: Yes. A bargain, you say, but certainly that is not how the Republican base at this point sees it. And we certainly saw that in the debate last night.

Ambassador, great to have you. Thank you so much for being with us.

VOLKER: Thank you. Thanks very much.

KEILAR: Jim?

SCIUTTO: Right now, activity picking up outside the Fulton County jail, where the former president must surrender later today. Barricades are up. Police are on standby in tactical gear. A look at security preparations ahead of former President Trump's arrival to be arrested there.

[13:48:38]

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:53:22]

SCIUTTO: We are following the potentially volatile situation in Atlanta in the hours ahead of Trump's arrival and surrender on state charges tied to his attempts to overturn the 2020 election there.

SWAT teams are now deployed at the Fulton County jail, where he will surrender himself. And at the district attorney's office. Police are on high alert, as well.

Trump's supporters and protesters have arrived in advance of the former president and his entourage.

CNN's Nick Valencia is there.

Nick, I wonder, in previous days and in other appearances, the number of protesters underwhelmed. What kind of numbers are you seeing there now?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's different now, Jim. Even before the sun came up, we saw Trump supporters here.

There's a lot of pressure on law enforcement. They are on high alert, if only because the former president is the most high-profile person to ever step foot in the Fulton County jail.

According to sources, several law enforcement agencies are working in coordination in and around the Fulton County jail complex, if only, or in part, I should say, because of the former president's explosive rhetoric regarding this case.

He's called Fani Willis a racist. He says this is politically motivated. And then he's put an all-call out for his supporters to come out and do just that. And they did.

So even before the sun came up, we saw supporters walking up and down this street with signs. Others driving the street, honking in support of the president.

They have since shut this street down to the public. You only see security vehicles coming up and down here.

The crowds, however, have moved to the other side of this facility. And in response to that, we saw several tactical teams of police respond to those crowds.

The environment, though, has been controlled. There's been no issue there so far, but there are certainly crowds out there.

[13:55:03]

Look, the reality of this is that many of those attached to this case have received death threats.

First, it was the Fulton County district attorney who got death threats. So much so that she had to change her personal security detail.

Then the Fulton County grand juries. They themselves were threatened with violence.

And even the leadership here of the Fulton County Sheriff's Office has seen death threats themselves and threats to their personal homes.

All of that contributing to this heightened alert here and this environment ahead of the former president's visit -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Nick Valencia, watching it closely there, thanks so much.

Brianna?

KEILAR: Here, in the next few hours, former President Trump will surrender at the Fulton County jail and go through a process that has humbled other men and women. We'll have more on what Trump will face and what it means, next.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)