Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

DA Fani Willis Requests October 23 Trial Date In Trump Election Subversion Case; Trump Replaces Lead Georgia Lawyer Ahead Of Surrender; Mark Meadows Surrenders At Fulton County Jail. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired August 24, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We are just hours away from a truly remarkable moment in American history. A former President turning himself in at a county jail after his fourth criminal indictment. The situation in Atlanta is changing by the minute ahead of Donald Trump's surrender there.

The district attorney who brought the case has just proposed a new trial date. That's right around the corner, just two months away in October. And some of Trump's most high-profile co-defendants have agreed to their own bond and surrender terms. We are following these major legal developments. Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And we're also monitoring the scene at the Fulton County jail where Trump will turn himself in. Right now, there is a major police presence there. We're talking SWAT teams, FBI security barriers, not to mention protesters and supporters. All of this ahead of Trump's imminent arrival from New Jersey.

First, let's get you over to the courthouse with CNN's Zachary Cohen for the very latest on this. Tell us, Zach, first about the DA's proposed start date, which is just around the corner.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. Brianna, this is an aggressive move from District Attorney Fani Willis. She's requesting an October 23, 2023. As in two months from now trial date. She's effectively calling the bluff of one of the defendants in this case, Ken Chesebro, who had said in a filing recently that he wanted a speedy trial and she says well, I'm -- we're ready to effectively go to trial right now.

So, what -- this goes beyond just Ken Chesebro. Also, this impacts all 19 defendants. That's what Fani Willis is requesting here. She wants to bring this trial against all 19 within the next few months.

KEILAR: And of Trump's co-defendants who still have to surrender by noon tomorrow, some of them have just agreed to bond terms. What can you tell us?

COHEN: Yes, Brianna. As we're waiting for Donald Trump to show up at the Fulton County Jail, it's been a busy day here at the courthouse. You know Jeffrey Clark, a former Department of Justice official during the Trump administration, he agreed to a one-hundred-thousand-dollar bond agreement, as did Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, the same amount applies to him too. And those are two pretty bold-faced names in terms of the defendants in this case.

And Jeffrey Clark is probably a little bit lesser known. He's a former DOJ official but he was an environmental lawyer by trade. He was -- but he was one of the only officials at the Justice Department who was willing to entertain Trump's you know various plans and efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

He wanted to investigate a variety of voter fraud claims that have never been proven to be remotely true. And Trump even considered making him acting attorney general at one point when Justice Department leaders refused to go along with his pressure campaign to investigate voter fraud. So, just -- Jeffrey Clark and Mark Meadows both agreeing, and that sets them up to surrender as well to the Fulton County Jail sometime before the new deadline tomorrow.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be looking for that. Zach Cohen, at the courthouse, thank you. And let's go down the road a bit to the Fulton County Jail where they have that increased security that we were talking about. Quite increased. CNN's Sara Murray is there on the scene for us. Sara, what will it look like once the former president arrives?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look. We're already starting to see the early iterations of that. I mean, it's still going to be hours before former President Donald Trump is here but security is heightened. A number of onlookers have been sort of gathering around here to try to see what they can see.

And again, for normal defendants, this is a long painful process, turning yourself in at the Fulton County Jail. It takes hours to be processed. We're not expecting that from the former president.

This should be a pretty quick visit, but one that's very different than his previous arrests. We've previously seen him show up at a courthouse and be processed there. That's not the case. This time he's showing up here at the Fulton County Jail.

And what we've seen from other defendants is that, you know, they're searched, they go through medical screening, they are fingerprinted, they get a mug shot. We don't necessarily know that the former president is going to have to go through all of these steps. It's very likely his team has taken a number of steps to try to smooth over the process and that frankly, the sheriff's office wants him in and out of this jail as quickly as possible.

But the sheriff has been adamant that the defendants in this case, all 19 of them, are going to be treated as close to regular defendants as possible and has suggested that fingerprints and mug shots are going to be ready for all of them. Again, that's different from what we've seen in the previous three arrests. Donald Trump never got a mug shot in any of these cases and we're waiting to see if he does this time around.

KEILAR: Yes, we certainly are waiting to see if he's treated exactly as other defendants. Sara Murray, live for us at the Fulton County Jail, thank you. Jim?

[14:05:07]

SCIUTTO: All right. With us now, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams. Lots of questions for you, as always.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

SCIUTTO: First, the Fulton County DA asking for a trial date in October, just two months away, in part I've laid out because one of Trump's co-defendants, Kenneth Chesebro is asking for a speedy trial, which all of us have a right to. Is this a likely timeline in your view?

WILLIAMS: For all 19 defendants? Absolutely not, Jim. It's not going to go to trial for everybody.

I mean look, Ken -- as you said, Ken Chesebro has requested a speedy trial. In order to bring everybody into that, you might step up against running into defendants' Constitutional rights themselves. If you are putting defendants in a position where they don't have adequate time to prepare for trial, that could actually imperil future convictions if they are convicted.

SCIUTTO: Right. So, what is adequate time though? Because you have --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: On the other side, Trump's team and others saying we need years to process and read all these documents, you know, You've heard --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- 2026 as they've thrown out there.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Look, somewhere in the middle.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And I -- look to be candid, you're not going to get 19 people to trial where there's all sorts of legal questions like whether it should be moved to federal court or who -- how you join defendants, and so on. What likely happens is you're talking about something called severance. You might sever out one of the defendants. Chesebro might get his own trial.

SCIUTTO: OK.

WILLIAMS: And then maybe you try the other folks at a later date. Not 2026, but certainly not October. SCIUTTO: Understood. OK. Other news today, Trump changed his legal team. Not the first time he's done this. In this case or in other cases often makes changes. But what I find interesting about this new lawyer is that he has hired someone who has defended defendants under racketeering statutes and so on.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And not entirely gotten them off in all cases. In some cases, they had to plead guilty to crimes.

WILLIAMS: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Is that -- does that give you a sense of his strategy going into something like this?

WILLIAMS: It does. And this is one of those rare instances where Donald Trump has hired the right attorney for the job rather than just somebody who was a loyalist of his. What you want in any criminal case is to have an attorney who's familiar with the type of case you're charged with. If you're charged with a national security case, you want a National Security attorney.

SCIUTTO: Right.

WILLIAMS: If you're charged with racketeering, you want someone who knows how to get a racketeering charge tossed out. Now, yes, most defendants end up pleading guilty. And maybe this lawyer has urged his folks to plead guilty in the past. But simply by hiring someone who knows what he's doing in this type of case, it is actually a savvy hire on the part of the -- of President Trump.

SCIUTTO: You're always going to be my hire, FYI.

WILLIAMS: I don't know if it was a good idea.

SCIUTTO: We are going to dig in deeper on the attorney -- the former president's new attorney later in this hour. Another question

So, Trump's going to surrender today. Trump likes to talk to the cameras. Trump is now under a court order not to do certain things, one of which is to make threats or intimidate witnesses, others involved in the case, etcetera. Who's going to be watching if he breaks that rule?

WILLIAMS: Oh, the judge and the prosecutor. So, if you do hire me as your attorney, Jim, the first bit of advice I will give you is, shut your mouth. Do not talk to the media.

SCIUTTO: But he doesn't do that.

WILLIAMS: He doesn't do that. And it is incredibly risky for a defendant anytime he goes public because things like threats and -- are fall into a gray area, something that's not saying you're going to kill somebody.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But just sort of winking and nodding about a potential threat to somebody could be construed as a threat by the court. It is just wise to get your defendant not to talk to the press. Now, that's very hard when you have a former president as a client, but here we are.

SCIUTTO: Right. Would he actually face a penalty for that, though? I know --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I know, there's the possibility of that. They're the -- whole, you know, contempt.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And the judge could throw him in a jail cell, right? But that's far more likely to happen to you or me than Trump.

WILLIAMS: Sure. The first thing that'll happen, the judge will call them back in for a hearing to sort of unpack what the statement is. Then she can or he can number one, modify the conditions of his release, put an ankle bracelet on him, and put -- or you know -- or put them in jail or fined him or put other conditions on him. There's broad latitude that judges have.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And it's really up to the judge.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen. I mean, we're seeing a former president walk into a county jail to surrender himself, so I suppose nothing's quite off the table here.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: All right. So, on Monday, the Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, Republican, one of those Republican officials in the state who refused Trump's attempts to overturn the results there, he is going to testify in the hearing on Mark Meadows' efforts to move the case to federal court.

WILLIAMS: Right.

SCIUTTO: He tried something that he failed on this week, which was I don't even have to surrender this week. But he's had to surrender now. We know his agreement.

WILLIAMS: Right.

SCIUTTO: But he's still trying to move it to federal court. What -- where does that stand in your view?

WILLIAMS: Sure.

SCIUTTO: If he lost this case this week, does that make them more likely to lose the next day?

WILLIAMS: Who knows?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Now, again, the central question is, were Meadows and Trump acting in the context of their position, the languages --

SCIUTTO: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- under the color of their federal positions, or were they just candidates for office or campaign staff acting in the state of Georgia? Raffensperger will come in to testify as to -- you know, maybe I actually think these guys were acting on behalf of the campaign, not the presidency. Look. Losing once before doesn't bode well for your prospects of winning again.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But you never know how it's going to come out in court.

[14:10:07]

SCIUTTO: You never know is -- should be our mantra, I think going forward given the last couple of years. Elliot Williams, thanks so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Coming up. The plane crash that might have killed the man who led a brief revolt against Vladimir Putin, what the U.S. intel community is now saying about it? And later. Why the House Judiciary Committee is set to investigate the Georgia DA who is prosecuting Trump? All of these stories and more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We're just hours away from seeing former President Trump enter a jail, be booked and released, and officially become a criminal defendant in Georgia. He has been charged on multiple counts for trying to undermine the 2020 election results in that state.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in Bedminster, New Jersey, tracking all of this. So, Kristen, what is Donald Trump's state of mind this afternoon as he's about to fly to Atlanta?

[14:15:00]

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I've talked to a number of advisors, Brianna, who say that Trump has been fixated on the debate from last night. That he had been talking about his polls, that this is something that he was actually concerned about if he made the right decision or not when it came to skipping the debate.

And he said that he's been feeling very good about that decision. He didn't feel that there were any breakout stars. But of course, when it comes to actually going to Atlanta, and by the way, this is something we know that Donald Trump does, he compartmentalizes, this is not something that he wants to be doing.

He does not want to be involved in this. He does not want to be charged. He has made that clear. He spent some of the day and much of the day yesterday lashing out at Fani Willis, the district attorney there.

We do expect him -- to see him fairly soon. He will be headed to Atlanta where he will be processed in that jail. And I'm told that this is the product of multiple negotiations back and forth between Trump's team and law enforcement with the same goal, trying to get him in and out of the city of Atlanta as quickly as possible. And that is how they ended up with that late evening timing for his surrender and for his processing.

Now, of course, there are still a lot of questions as to what exactly that processing will look like. Some of his own team don't seem to know all of the details and how long it's going to take. But again, we are told they want to make this as quick as possible, not just Trump's team, but the law enforcement on the ground as well.

And one other thing I want to point out here is that we are told that they are preparing for Trump to make remarks after he is processed to the reporters traveling with him. But of course, as we know, ultimately this will be his decision how he is feeling after he is processed. And as we have seen, these are not times that he feels good. He is generally angry and irritated after these kinds of events.

KEILAR: All right, we will look and see. Kristen Holmes, thank you for the very latest there. Jim?

SCIUTTO: As we mentioned just a moment ago, Donald Trump just made an 11th-hour change to his legal team in Georgia just hours ahead of his surrender, replacing one high-profile attorney with another. Sources tell CNN that Drew Findling, the man here on the left is now out. Taking his place, Steve Sadow, a defense attorney with a record of highly interesting cases in other high-profile clients.

Trump's source said the switch had nothing to do with Findling's performance, but another source familiar with Sadow called him "the best criminal defense attorney in Georgia." So, here's what we know about him and the clients he's had in the past.

Back in 2000, he represented one of NFL Ray Lewis's co-defendants, Joseph Sweeting, in the high-profile Buckhead murder case that followed a night of post-Super Bowl partying. Sadow secured Sweeting's acquittal in the stabbing deaths of two men in that case. He has also represented the rappers T.I. and as well as R'n'B Star Usher and Rick Ross. Sadow also has experience in high-profile racketeering cases. That is notable considering Trump is now one of 19 defendants in a racketeering or RICO indictment.

So, to that point, more than two decades ago, Sadow rep this man, an Atlanta strip club owner Steve Kaplan in a big RICO case. Kaplan accused then, of funneling profits from The Gold Club to the Gambino crime family in New York. Sadow secured a plea deal for Kaplan, in which he had to plead guilty to one count of racketeering, forfeit five million dollars. He spent three to five years in prison. Sadow at the time called it a very good deal for all concerned.

More recently, just in December of last year, Sadow secured a plea deal for the rapper, Gunna. This in a high-profile racketeering case again, also brought by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. Gunna pleading guilty in that case against YSL or Young Slime Life, the rap group founded by Young Thug.

Gunna had to admit that YSL was also a criminal street gang. He was sentenced to five years in prison, was released after one year when the sentence was commuted for time served. The rest of that sentence was suspended.

Fast forward to today. After he was named Trump's new Georgia attorney, Sadow released a statement that says in part and will quote here. "We look forward to the case being dismissed or if necessary an unbiased, open-minded jury finding the president not guilty. Prosecutions intended to advance or serve the ambitions and careers of political opponents of the president have no place in our justice system."

But notable, Brianna, in the past in racketeering cases, some of his clients have had to plead.

KEILAR: Yes, that is very notable. And coming up. It was a steep uphill battle for the eight 2024 GOP hopefuls last night to show that they have a chance against the front-runner who has a 40-point lead in the polls did they break through? And then later, difficult fate. Those words from Vladimir Putin describing Wagner leader Prigozhin after his plane crash. We'll have more on what the Russian leader said, ahead.

[14:20:07]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: And we have some breaking news out of Fulton County, Georgia. Let's go straight to our Nick Valencia. Nick, what can you tell us? What's happening there?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, one of the biggest names on the 19 defendants in this sprawling indictment has surrendered to the Fulton County Jail. And it's interesting, Brianna, because in the last 30 minutes, we did see several black vehicles, black SUVs pull up to this Jefferson Street entrance.

Initially, we had believed it was potentially Secret Service, but the timeline matches up with potentially you know it being Mark Meadows. His jail records have populated indicating that he had surrendered to the Fulton County deputies. And Meadows had made a big push to try to get his case moved to federal court.

[14:25:09]

He had filed actually, you know legal filing to try to get his case removed from a state court, moved instead to the Federal Court. He'd also tried to get his delayed surrender. That was struck down by a U.S. district court judge.

But on Monday, we know that he has a federal court hearing to hear his case and argument about trying to get this moved to federal court. But some big developments here as the flurry of activity continues outside the Fulton County Jail. Former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows charged in the sprawling indictment now in custody in the Fulton County Sheriff's Office, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. And he will be processed and then released, we expect, and we will be looking for details on that. Nick Valencia, live outside the Fulton County Jail, thank you for that.

I'm joined now by CNN Senior Political Analyst Gloria Borger and CNN Political Commentator Geoff Duncan. He is the former Republican Lieutenant Governor of Georgia.

Let's just talk about this moment if we can, Gloria. This is Mark Meadows, former White House Chief of Staff, a big name on Capitol Hill, taking the side door in after trying so, so hard to not --

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: To avoid it.

KEILAR: -- to avoid the mug shot, the whole process. What do you think?

BORGER: Right. Well, Mark Meadows is such a key figure in all of this. And everybody's been wondering for months and months and months, where's he been? He's kind of disappeared.

And when he was in the White House, he was Trump's enabler in every single way. And was on that phone call with Raffensperger about looking for votes, went down to Atlanta. His defense is that he was just doing his job as the chief of staff for the president of the United States, doing what the president wanted him to do.

There's also another version of that, which is what he was doing was trying to fix an election. So, I think he is a key witness here, very, very important. And I'm not surprised he tried to walk through a side door.

KEILAR: And, you know -- Geoff, you know, it's -- as we've watched, some people go in, some people in broad daylight in the front door, some people in the middle of the night because just to remind our viewers, this -- you can go in there for processing 24/7. So, you have that option. If you want to avoid some attention, you can go in at 2:00 a.m. should you so please. It seems like there has been this effort on Mark Meadows' part to avoid sort of being lumped in with people who have allegedly given access to people to breach voting machines and the like.

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I can't help but think what's going through Mark Meadows' head at this point, right, as he goes through this process, as he has difficult conversations with his family about having to find the money to pay for all his attorneys and his record -- you know personal record being soiled. I just can't imagine them not sitting around the table going was this worth it? Was it worth it, to take these steps into -- and to really work for somebody that just took this in a different direction and now looks like an illegal direction?

And look, this is -- this has got to be difficult personally for each and every one of these individuals. And I think just you know as cynical as it looks like for different times for mug shots and different times of the day and different vehicles they show up in, I think there's an even bigger picture to this. It's going to be what their legal strategies are, right?

Is it going to be blaming the attorneys? Is it going to be blaming Donald Trump? Is it going to be blaming, you know Fani Willis?

Nobody's really blaming the fact that nobody's listening to the facts. The big box of secret evidence has never shown up in two and a half years. And unless it shows up pretty quickly, these folks are going to have some pretty stiff competition when they walk into that courtroom.

KEILAR: They certainly are. I do want to talk to you a little bit about the other big story that we've been following, which is the day after the debate. Only Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson ruling out supporting former President Trump. Chris Christie met with boos and some cheers when he said that. Geoff, maybe that's not a surprise. I wonder what you thought.

DUNCAN: Well, it was -- it was actually a little bit refreshing to see a few adults show up in that debate, at least for a little while, right?

KEILAR: Right.

DUNCAN: To watch Nikki Haley really step up to the plate and deliver a very strong articulate message. That was a Nikki Haley I wanted to show up six months ago but she showed up last night and really put on a really good foot forward. Chris Christie was a steady force of really bringing folks to accountability and others. And look, there was some buzzword bingo going on, too.

It was disappointing to listen to Vivek Ramaswamy really take the road that he took. That was just throwing red meat to the crowd. It's going to be interesting to watch him and Marjorie Taylor Greene if Donald Trump figures out a way to win this jockey for position to be Donald Trump's vice president.

BROGER: I just say that I think everyone on that stage disliked Ramaswamy so much. They could barely contain themselves. And I have never seen Mike Pence as animated, have you? I mean --

KEILAR: No.

BORGER: Mike Pence was so animated during that debate last night, particularly with Ramaswamy, who was disrespectful to a former vice president, whom he said had no experience, didn't know what he was talking about.