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D.A. Proposes October 23 Trial for Trump, 18 Co-Defendants; Hearing on Monday on Moving Meadows' Case to Federal Court; GOP Rivals React to Trump's Historic Arrest in Georgia. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The clock is ticking. Trump's remaining co- defendants have two hours to go to jail to be booked. The consequences will be swift if they don't. This is as the district attorney calls for the trial to begin in less than two months.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Inmate p01135809, the historic mug shot that can be yours on the T-shirt for $34. Why everyone wants a piece of this for their own political purposes.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: In Maui, the county has now filed suit against the local utility companies. What they now point to is causing the deadliest wildfires in 100 years.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: All right. If Trump's final two co-defendants in Georgia don't turn themselves in the next two hours, Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis says arrest warrants will be issued for them. They both must go through the system, something that the ex-president did last night, when Donald Trump went from the 45th president to inmate number, as you heard John say, P01835809, a new title as America has its first ever mug shot of a former president.

In cinematic fashion, he traveled to the jail to face his fourth indictment this year. And this morning, there are major questions about how and how quickly this case is now going to move forward. The Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has her sights set on October 23rd for all 19 co-defendants. A judge has agreed to it. That is less than two months from now.

We begin this hour with CNN's Jessica Schneider in Washington, who's got more on how all of this will unfold and the critical ahead. Jessica?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Sara, it's been a very busy and monumental week in Georgia, but we're set to see even more. So, on Monday, we are set to see more action at the federal courthouse in Atlanta and the federal courthouse right here in Washington.

So, first, what we can expect in Georgia on Monday, well, that is when Mark Meadows will be arguing to a judge that his case should actually be moved to the federal court and then thrown out. Because, as he has been arguing, and will argue, he says he was acting as a federal officer during all of this alleged conduct. So, that should allow for removal and dismissal of the charges.

But District Attorney Fani Willis, is all ready for Monday's hearing, lined up several witnesses to dispute that contention, and that includes Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. He was, of course, at the center of that phone call from Trump in January 2021 asking for Raffensperger to find more than 10,000 votes for the former president to prevail over Joe Biden.

So, Raffensperger will to be at that hearing Monday along with a few more witnesses. So, this is likely to be a long and contentious hearing in federal court on Monday.

And then also on Monday, right here in Washington, there will be a hearing in one of those other cases confronting Trump, the special counsel's election subversion case.

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That's when Judge Tanya Chutkan right here will be hearing arguments about when a trial in that case should start. Of course, Special Counsel Jack Smith, he wants January 2nd, just a few months from now. Trump's team is asking to push that trial off until 2026. Of course, we know Fani Willis in Georgia is asking to try Trump as soon as October, a judge already approving that October 23rd start date.

So, you know, Sara, there is a lot swirling here in the next few weeks. We're going to continue to see these hearings, but a lot lined up for Monday, both in Georgia and in Washington, you know, cases that will implicate Trump or his co-defendants, like Mark Meadows. Sara?

SIDNER: There are so many cases to juggle. You do it so well. Jessica Schneider, thank you so much for all of your reporting. Kate?

BOLDUAN: And Donald Trump, he marked his fourth arrest and first mug shot with a return to X, formerly known as Twitter. And maybe in the least surprising move of all, immediately fundraising off the shot heard round the world, as John Berman would say.

The image is now attached to Trump's main fundraising page. And wait, there's more. Even official mug shot merch, the Trump campaign launching Never Surrender shirts, mugs and bumper stickers, though, he technically did have to do just that, surrender to a county jail.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is near Donald Trump's Bedminster golf club in New Jersey. She joins us now. Kristen, what more is Donald Trump saying about his arrest?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, look, I want to talk a little bit about this mug shot and how much he is promoting it, because I talked to a number of campaign advisers yesterday before they knew if they were going to have to take it. And they did not want him to take this mug shot.

Remember when he was arraigned in New York, they put a picture of a fake mug shot on merchandise and fundraised off of it. They didn't really want the real thing. They wanted to be able to control what they were putting out.

But once it became clear that he was going to take this mug shot, they wanted to take advantage of it. And they had lots of conversations with the former president, who, as we know, cares deeply about optics, about how he was going to look and pose for that mug shot. And they came up with the idea that he wouldn't smile so that he could look, quote/unquote, defiant

And as you mentioned then, they took off with that. They posted it on X, formerly known as Twitter. This is something that we've really been talking about for years, since he was banned from Twitter and then reinstated, whether or not he would tweet. And this is just another example of Trump really trying to take control of the media narrative around this.

Now, when it comes to what Trump is saying to his advisers and people close to him, he is not happy. He was agitated around this arrest, as he has been with his multiple charges. And he has irked particularly by the case in Georgia. And he was asked last night about his co- defendants. And he said he looked at some of the mug shots and realized he didn't even know some of them. And then the ones that he did know were people that whose lives had been ruined.

But one thing to keep in mind is all of these people, or most of these people are being charged with trying to impact the election in 2020 in his benefit.

BOLDUAN: All right. Kristen Holmes, thank you so much for that. John?

BERMAN: All right, I'll take it. So, while we still do not know when Trump's Georgia trial will begin, we do now know, as Jessica Schneider was pointing out, his co-defendant, Kenneth Cheseboro's trial, is scheduled to begin on October 23rd. October 23rd, that is just over eight weeks away, 8.43 weeks away, to be clear here. And it's because, Chesebro requested a speedy trial.

With us now, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig and former Federal Prosecutor Michael Zeldin.

Elie, I think this got lost a little bit in the obsession over the mug shot yesterday, but there's a trial set for 59 days from now in the Georgia case. It's not Trump's, but man, this matters.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, this is such a big deal, because what's happened, this one defendant, Number 19, Mr. Cheseboro, he has said, I want my speedy trial. You have a right, a very strong speedy trial provision under Georgia law to be tried before the end of the next judicial term, which means they have to start his trial before November. That's how we end up with this October date. If this holds, and he's entitled to it, we are going to see a trial.

And when you're trying the case against Mr. Cheseboro as the prosecutors, you're going to have to put on 90 percent of your total case. You might be able to streamline it a bit, but this is a racketeering case.

So, prosecutors are going to have to put on their whole evidence. And you know who's going to be sitting in the gallery of that courtroom watching every move? The lawyers, and maybe the defendants for the other 18 people in this case, taking notes, building their strategy, what's working for the prosecutors, what's not, where are the holes we can exploit. So, if this trial goes forward, A, we're going to see a trial in two months, B, it's an enormous tactical measure.

BERMAN: And when you say we're going to see a trial, by the way, we're going to see a trial. I mean, there will be cameras in the courtroom in Georgia. Who called whose bluff here?

HONIG: It's a great question. So, on the one hand, I think Kenneth Cheseboro called the D.A.'s handout here because he said, okay, you want to indict 19 of us, 161 racketeering acts, why don't you prove it before Halloween, right.

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And as a prosecutor, we used to sometimes say, what would happen if every defendant actually insisted on a speedy trial? We'd be swamped. We couldn't handle it. But Fani Willis fired right back. She said, all right, you want your speedy trial? We'll see you October 23rd. And so she's ready to go, too.

BERMAN: So, Michael Zeldin, do Donald Trump's interests here align with Kenneth Cheseboro, or where do they or do they not align?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, they align politically and legally. In legal sense, as Elie said, if you get a preview of the case that's going to be tried against you, you have an advantage.

Although the Cheseboro case is pretty straightforward, he was the author of the fake elector scheme. You can put on the broad scope of the conspiracy, the hub of it, and then say he was the spoke that did this. I rest my case. I think they don't have a lot of trouble putting in a very tight case.

Politically, of course, Trump wants this case in 2026 after the election. That's at odds with what Cheseboro wants. So, they're going to fight over the politics of the timing. But as the law goes, it is an advantage to the defendants who are not being tried. But I'm not sure that it's an advantage to Cheseboro to go so quickly in a big trial where he's just one name in a group of 19. He may be able to say, look, I paid a little role, get rid of me, acquit me, convict the people above me.

BERMAN: And, Michael, just to be clear, the trial date is set now for October 23rd. But, A, that could change, and, B, Cheseboro could back out of this, couldn't he?

ZELDIN: Yes, he could withdraw his request for a speedy trial, or the judge could ask others, do they want to be part of a speedy trial with him? So, there could be motions for severance and joinder. There are all sorts of things that could happen. It doesn't make it so that he's requested it, but it is, as Elie said, his right to do so.

BERMAN: All right. And just to be clear, again, I want our audience to know, this October 23rd, eight weeks away, there is a trial set at this point by the judge in Georgia that will be on T.V. That's a big deal. We are just days away, Elie, from another key moment in a courtroom here, and this is the federal case against Donald Trump for attempts to overturn the election. And Judge Tanya Chutkan will have a hearing and decide pretty soon when this trial will start.

HONIG: Yes. She's going to be choosing between two proposed extremes. DOJ Jack Smith said, I want to start on January 2nd, 2024, so a few months from now. Donald Trump's team said, we want to start in April 2026. Yes, 2026. So, she's got to find a middle ground here.

Of course, the big question is, will she fit it in before the election? Every word out of Judge Chutkan's mouth has indicated she absolutely intends to try this before the election. But what's tricky here is this is a big, broad, complicated case. I'm sorry. It is not a straightforward case. I've heard people say that, absolutely not. If you've ever had to deal with a case in a courtroom like this involving a fraud to steal the election, there are 11 million documents.

So, you do want to push for a quick trial if you're the judge, but you also can't trample on the due process rights that any defendant has.

BERMAN: Michael Zeldin. Is this trial happening before Election Day?

ZELDIN: It should, and I think it could. I think Elie's right, it's a complicated case, but it's not so complicated that it can't be tried in a timeline that is more consistent what the prosecutor is asking for than what Trump is asking for.

I think that, really, you have a straightforward theory of the case, which is these people engaged in crime in order to do this event, and that that could be laid out. And, yes, there're 11 million documents, but they really boil down to an essential few thousand of them. And as Elie and I have tried many cases with thousands of documents, they're doable.

BERMAN: Michael Zeldin, Elie Honig, one thing I do think is clear is that Tanya Chutkan will let us know soon when she's going to set the date for this trial. She's been moving quickly, at least on her decisions. Thank you both very much. Sara?

SIDNER: Former President Trump's arrest is threatening to overshadow the 2024 presidential race. What his Republican rivals are saying on the campaign trail.

And Maui County is placing the blame for the deadliest wildfires in the U.S. in a century. The new lawsuit the government has just filed, that's ahead.

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SIDNER: All right. We've just gotten some new information just this just into CNN. One more of Donald Trump's co-defendants has turned themselves into the Fulton County Jail now. This is just about two hours. ahead of that noon deadline.

Trevian Kutti, a former publicist for Kanye West and R. Kelly, who was accused of intimidating a Georgia election worker, has surrendered now. That leaves one more co defendant, Stephen Lee, to turn himself in. He has less than two hours to do so before an arrest warrant will be put in place. John?

BERMAN: All right, watching that very closely. In the meantime, happening now, Republican presidential hopefuls on the campaign trail after their first debate after the Georgia arrest. South Carolina Senator Tim Scott is in New Hampshire. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswami are in Iowa.

This morning, Ramasamy re-upped, saying that he would pardon Trump if he's elected president.

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VIVEK RAMASWAMY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Despite being a competitor to Donald Trump in this primary, I have been crystal clear that, yes, I will pardon him of any federal crime of which I'm able to. And the reason why is that is a pre-condition for moving our nation forward.

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BERMAN: All right. CNN's Steve Contorno is in Iowa following the DeSantis campaign. Steve, so what's he saying today?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: John, Governor DeSantis has made clear that he is not interested in talking much more about the events on January 6th, 2021, or about these stacking indictments against former President Donald Trump.

Take a listen to what he had to say yesterday just as Governor -- or excuse me, former President Trump was getting booked in that Fulton County Jail.

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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Candidates got to decide how much are they going to indulge with some of this. So, you can ask me to parse January 6th, 2021, and then me as a candidate, I have the choice to either parse it for you or to tell you I'm focused on January 20th, 2025. So, if Republicans let it overwhelm, then it will. But we don't have to let it overwhelm. We can focus on talking about people's future.

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CONTORNO: Now, DeSantis made those comments at the Field of Dreams, the Iowa cornfield ballpark made famous by the Kevin Costner movie, and he was there with his wife and young kids.

And so even though they're not talking about January 6th and these indictments, he is playing up a contrast with the former president, where he has his young, dynamic family with him doing sort of these wholesome all-American events through the heartland at the same time Donald Trump is getting his mug shot taken. So, that was an interesting dynamic.

And that tour will continue today through Iowa. Today, DeSantis will be swinging through Western Iowa, continuing to try to hit all 99 counties in this state as he tries to build support for those caucuses next January. BERMAN: Yes. He's trying to create pictures of what a traditional

campaign would look like. The question is, is this, in, fact a traditional campaign?

Steve Contorno, great to see you. Thank you so much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: I can't believe you missed the opportunity, you of all people.

BERMAN: If you build it, they will come.

BOLDUAN: But now it's, if you build it, will they come?

John Berman is talking about the question of a traditional campaign. Let's jump in on that.

Joining me now, Alex Conant, he's a former communications director for Marco Rubio's 2016 presidential campaign, now a partner with Firehouse Strategies. It's really good to see you, Alex. Thanks for coming in.

Let's play a game we're going to call traditional Republican campaign versus running a campaign against Donald Trump. So, let's say you're a candidate who has a strong debate performance. The next day, the frontrunner gets booked in a county jail and has a mug shot released. The day after that, you do what with a traditional campaign?

ALEX CONANT, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RUBIO FOR PRESIDENT: I think with a traditional campaign, you clearly point to the guy that was just arrested and suggest, maybe he shouldn't be our party's leader, maybe he shouldn't be the next president of the United States.

But this, Kate, as you know, is not a traditional campaign. You're running against Donald Trump. And Donald Trump has a very, very loyal base. About 25 percent of the Republican Party is going to vote for Trump no matter how many times he gets arrested.

The remaining 75 percent, I think they are up for grabs. Look, right now, Donald Trump is leading by a lot, but there are a lot of Republicans that are open to an alternative. And I think it's incumbent on any candidate, including Governor DeSantis, to make the argument why they are better.

And I think when the guy gets arrested, that would open the door for an argument to be why you're a better candidate than the guy that just has mug shot taken.

BOLDUAN: And keeping with the theme of if you build it, will they come, then we get our guest performance of Jim Messina popping up, finally plugging in. Jim, thank you for joining us and making quite the entrance.

Jim Messina, of course, former campaign manager for President Obama's 2012 campaign, now the CEO of Messina Group.

Okay. So, Jim, we are playing a game on a traditional campaign versus running a campaign against Donald Trump. As Alex is very clearly pointing out, you would run the day after the frontrunner has a mug shot taken and is released. You run all over that. You plaster that, you talk about that. That is not what the Republicans, though, are doing.

Do you think it is to their peril, though, or are they trying to walk on a knife's edge that may or may not exist in order to win over all of the Republican base, Jim?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, look, I think their strategy is silly. I mean, to beat the king, Kate, you got to actually go hit (ph). And right now, they want to play around and pretend that they're his friend, but they really want people to vote for them. I mean, someone's got to go and draw a real contrast.

I agree with Alex. You got to draw a contrast between you and Donald Trump. And in that debate last night or two nights ago, no one did. And that was a huge missed opportunity. I don't know how many more chances DeSantis is going to have to take an opportunity like that. And so I think that's the challenge for all these folks, and so far, they're not up to it.

BOLDUAN: Messina let me play something from Vivek Ramaswamy, his approach to all of this.

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Listen to this.

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RAMASWAMY: I expect to be the next president. I expect to win in a landslide. But I will require, respectfully, each of those people to play their respective roles in our national revival as well in some way, because this is a team sport.

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BOLDUAN: With everything you just said, Messina, what is Ramaswamy doing? What is his impact, do you think, on this race?

MESSINA: Oh, I think he's running for vice president, and I think that's the only thing. I mean, he did everything but, you know, kissed Donald Trump in that debate.

And, you know, he understands he's not going to be the Republican nominee. He's not stupid. And so he's running for vice president or, you know, at worst case, a member of the cabinet. You know, Barack Obama once said to me that he put almost every single person he ran against in the 2008 primary in his cabinet. And so some of these people are just auditioning for those roles, and that's what he was doing the other night.

BOLDUAN: On this conversation, Alex, there's a new Politico/Ipsos poll out today suggesting something interesting, asking how a Trump conviction would impact the likelihood that people would support Donald Trump.

Republicans in answering this question either say, no, that it will have no impact on their likelihood of supporting Trump, or they will support, or they're more likely to support him. If that is the case, can you change that as a campaign?

CONANT: Yes. Look, that track -- and that poll tracks with the poll that Firehouse Strategies, my firm, did the other week that showed that Republicans are going to stick with Donald Trump even if he is convicted. So, I think this idea that if he's convicted, these trials are going to have an impact. I don't know that that's the case, at least with Republican voters.

And so somebody like Vivek Ramaswamy, who I think is running in part with the hope that Donald Trump is going to drop out of the race or his support is going to collapse, that's the same strategy that all of the candidates tried in 2016 when we ran against him, and it failed then because hope is not a strategy. You can't just hope that Trump's support is going to fall as that poll shows. Like I think Donald Trump really could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, and his base would not abandon them and he'd continue to be the Republican nominee.

Now, I think it has a big impact on Independents and on the general election, but just in terms of winning the primary, which is the task at hand for every candidate right now, none of them are employing a strategy that's any different than 2016, and I think we're going to, on the trajectory, to have the same result as in 2016.

BOLDUAN: So, let me ask a super easy question then, Messina, to round this out. What changed this week? The only answer not allowed is that nothing changed. What happened this week in kind of like a politically existential way?

MESSINA: That the former president of the United States got his 91st felony account, and that's -- we're just in historic times. We've never been through this. But we just had our fourth mug shot with the former president of the United States. I think that's all that changed because, clearly, nothing changed in that debate, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you guys. Let's do it again. Thanks, gentlemen. Sara?

SIDNER: All right. The official number of people missing from the Hawaii fires has plummeted dramatically and the focus is now turning to who's to blame for sparking those catastrophic fires. And we're getting a new look of that incredible cable car rescue in

Pakistan, as you can see what it looked like for rescuers and those who were stuck hundreds of feet in the air. That's all ahead.

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