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Maui County Files Lawsuit Against Utility Companies; WAPO: Lawyers Say Maui Utility May Have Compromised Evidence In Wildfire Probe; New Footage Shows Terrifying Ordeal Inside Cable Car 900 Feet In The Air. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired August 25, 2023 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
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SARA SIDNER, HOST, "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Investigators in Hawaii now have a better idea of just how many people are still missing on Maui. The number has dropped drastically. It started with more than 1,000 people missing. Now, it stands at 388, which is still a staggering number of missing people. Authorities released a validated list of the names of those still unaccounted for, and they're hoping that people on that list will come forward to say they made it out. At this point, 115 people are confirmed dead. Not, the blame game has begun over who sparked the deadliest wildfire in over 100 years. In a lawsuit, Maui officials say Hawaiian Electric and its subsidiaries are to blame, claiming the company's inaction caused the loss of life.
And this morning, court documents obtained by The Washington Post revealed that the main Maui utility is also being accused of removing holes and lines and other equipment from where the fire started. Hawaiian Electric told The Post that they are in constant communication with the ATF and local authorities who are on the ground investigating this and that they are "cooperating to provide them inventories, and access to the removed equipment, which has been carefully photographed, documented and stored."
All right. I am joined now by CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, who also has picked out a very snazzy tie this morning. I just want to point that out. Can you give us a sense of what it means that if Hawaiian Electric removed what is considered evidence, correct, what does that mean? What could happen here?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I mean, the -- under the subtext here is, is there a cover-up? Was that done deliberately? Hawaiian Electric, for their part, says we were working full tilt trying to remove debris and restore power. That was job one. And all of this has been carefully catalogued, photographed, stored. We have it. We know where it is.
[10:35:00]
MILLER: So, they're saying no such thing was going on. The challenge will be, as plaintiffs and what's going to be nine lawsuits which will turn into more accountability, which is, did that substation, these transformers, damaged by winds and hurricanes and other things, were they not properly maintained? Were they sparking? Did they start this fire, which then started other fires, which then tells the terrible story of what's occurred and the terrible loss? And will ATF investigators be able to reconstruct that?
SIDNER: I'm curious about the ATF investigators that are on the ground. Usually, the U.S. Forest Service is responsible for some of this. But, now the ATF is there. Why?
MILLER: Well, ATF holds the ticket among federal investigative agencies on arson, not just explosives, and they have excellent arson investigators and a first rate lab, probably when it comes to arson, the best in the country, but limited experience in forest fires --
SIDNER: Right.
MILLER: -- because the Forest Service usually does it because it's usually on national parks and national forest lands. In this case, this isn't federal lands. So, ATF has the ticket. What they're going to have to do here is go to where this material has been removed, where it's cataloged and so on. Look at whatever photographic, whether it's satellite or other imagery, there was before to say, OK --
SIDNER: It correlates.
MILLER: -- what did this look like before? Where did these things go? And then, look at their normal point of origin science in terms of where do we think this started, and where do we think it moved. And their job will be harder, but they're very good at it.
SIDNER: I did not realize that they had this huge arson investigation, because I always think about them as --
MILLER: Guns and bombs.
SIDNER: -- your guns and bombs. Right.
MILLER: That's right.
SIDNER: Exactly. John Miller, it's always a pleasure. I always learn something when you're here. So, you can come back every day. I know --
MILLER: Thanks, Sara.
SIDNER: -- that's -- it's a bit much. It's a big ask. But --
MILLER: Appreciate it.
SIDNER: -- come back every day. All right. John.
JOHN BERMAN, HOST, "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Thanks for checking with us first. Yes. Right. Just in, harrowing new drone footage of the rescue of those eight people who were stranded in a cable car for 14 hours, six children and two adults clung to the car which was 900 feet over a valley in northwest Pakistan. They were on their way to school. This video was obtained by the BBC. We don't know the original source. All onboard were brought to safety with helicopters ultimately and a zip line. The incident did prompt Pakistan to close what they call all dilapidated and non-compliant chairlifts, probably a good idea. Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, HOST, "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": I mean, the -- there -- one, the doors on that cable car were like netting and then they weren't even -- that's terrifying. That is -- thank God, they all were able to get out of there, and the work of those rescue teams was amazing to get them out. Wow. That's unbelievable.
Coming up for us, Monday marks 60 years since Martin Luther King Jr. delivered those famous words in his 'I Have a Dream' speech during the March on Washington. 60 years later, many see the country is still fighting for that dream. CNN speaks to some of those who were at the 1963 gathering about that march ahead. We'll be back.
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[10:40:00]
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BERMAN: On Monday, the nation will commemorate 60 years since the historic march on Washington. On August 28, 1963, hundreds of thousands marched through the streets of the nation's capital to fight for Jobs and Freedom. It was the day of Martin Luther King's historic 'I Have a Dream' speech. The march proved critical in helping push for the passage of new laws, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlawed overt racial discrimination. CNN's Jason Carroll sat down with two activists who were at that historic march, and they say the fight for equality is still not over.
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JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a call for economic and racial equality, a call to action that brought more than 200,000 people to the National Mall in Washington, D.C. on August 28, 60 years ago, a day best remembered for Martin Luther King Jr. 's historic 'I Have a Dream' speech.
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MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., AMERICAN MINSTER: Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.
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CARROLL: Among the hundreds of thousands, two young activists who were filled with hope.
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COURTLAND COX, CHAIRMAN, SNCC LEGACY PROJECT: I was all the way on the top.
CARROLL: All the way on the top -- COX: Yes.
CARROLL: -- over to the left.
COX: Yes. Over to the left.
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CARROLL: Courtland Cox is now 82. But, 60 years ago, he was a 22-year- old, working for the civil rights organization SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.
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COX: And what I remember is the platform is there in the mid center.
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CARROLL: Edward Flanagan was there too.
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CARROLL: Where were you? Do you remember?
EDWARD FLANAGAN, ATTENDED 1963 MARCH ON WASHINGTON: I was sitting on the wall up, top there, by the entertainers.
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CARROLL: Flanagan is 80 now, but on the day of the march, he was a 20- year-old who had just finished his shift as a waiter. Like scores of others, he wanted to take a stand for civil rights.
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FLANAGAN: I was very close to Joan Baez. OK? I was able to notice he was barefoot. And I have a new pair to change.
CARROLL: She was barefoot.
FLANAGAN: She was barefoot.
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CARROLL: A march six decades ago, now seen through the eyes of two different men who shared the same goal many did that day.
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FLANAGAN: It was in fact a march for Jobs and Freedom.
[10:45:00]
COX: I thought it was a day is that we succeeded in changing this country.
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CARROLL: As a young organizer, Cox was responsible for arranging safe transportation for people making the trek from the south to Washington, D.C. He says there were challenges from top to bottom, much had to be done in very little time.
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COX: The challenge from the bottom was the logistics of getting people here. Over a period, I'm trying to get trailways, buses. I'm trying to get Greyhound buses, and the drivers are saying, look, it's dangerous bringing people to the south. The challenge from the top was the Kennedy administration was opposed to John Lewis's speech.
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CARROLL: Cox worked alongside then 23-year-old civil rights activist John Lewis, who was the Chairman of SNCC. This picture shows the two men as they rewrote the speech to tone it down, to make it less critical of the Kennedy administration's civil rights bill, which they felt didn't go far enough to protect people from police brutality.
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COX: John Lewis, Jim Forman and myself, were in the back of the Lincoln Memorial, re-changing John Lewis's speech to make sure that while it was critical, it was not negative.
CARROLL: That had to have been an incredible moment.
COX: Well, yes, but what was more incredible to me is that John got up after all of that controversy and delivered a fantastic speech.
JOHN LEWIS, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: It is true that we support the administration's civil rights bill. We support it with great reservation, however.
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CARROLL: This week, Flanagan brought his daughters back to the place history was made. He'll be back again Saturday.
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FLANAGAN: That's the fact (ph) where the entertainers were.
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CARROLL: Cox prefers to stay away this time, saying his marching days are behind him. Both agree, while much was accomplished that day, the work is not over.
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FLANAGAN: We are still well in a much better place than we were in 1963, not in the place where one would expect 60 years on.
COX: We succeeded in doing a number of things by what we did in the past, but we also know that we have to do much more for the future.
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CARROLL: And both Mr. Cox and Mr. Flanagan also expressed grave concern as well as civil rights leaders doing the same that there is an ongoing effort in this day and age to try to turn the clock back. That is why they are so concerned about where we are now. Big concern is that what's happening is people are trying to erase African American history.
BERMAN: Jason, I got to say, just sit with those people who touched history or were there, to see the picture revising John Lewis's speech.
CARROLL: And their memory, crystal clear.
BERMAN: But, how could you forget, what an important day and a wonderful piece. Thanks so much, Jason.
CARROLL: Thank you.
BERMAN: OK.
BOLDUAN: That was an awesome look. Thank you, Jason, for that.
Coming up for us, you've seen the mug shot, next up the arraignment. A look at what's in store for Donald Trump now that he has been formally booked on criminal charges in Georgia. Plus, are Americans reaching the tipping point with tipping? A new CNN report next.
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[10:50:00]
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BOLDUAN: Nearly everywhere you go, it seems like you're being asked to leave a tip, whether it's at a coffee shop, at a taxi or at a salon. This is leading to confusion these days at the checkout about whether a tip is required, and if so, how much, because for some workers, it is essential, but there is a lot of debate it has sparked around all of it. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has the details.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: This scream is stressful for many.
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YURKEVICH: Does the flip of the screen feel like a lot of pressure?
CARLY CULLEN, NEW YORK RESIDENT: It does, and they give you options like 10, 15, 20, even with like Uber, Dash --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
CULLEN: -- and like Grubhub, all of it, like everything is, tip, tip, tip.
YURKEVICH: Do you think that tipping has gotten out of control?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
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YURKEVICH: Tips are part of American culture, meant to be a thank you for good service. But, today, more and more Americans are confronted with the question, would you like to add a tip?
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CULLEN: It is tricky everywhere, right? Like, if you're at a coffee shop, if you're at the hairstylist, if you're coming out of a taxi, like I don't know the rules then and I often don't know what to tip.
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YURKEVICH: A recent study found that, in a high number of cases, participants who were presented with a tip screen had more negative emotions to the payment experience than those that didn't. And it wasn't even a real world scenario.
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DYLAN BOSCH, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Let's say you go to a coffee shop and all they do just twist around the laptop. It was like, why am I tipping?
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YURKEVICH: But, the small group we spoke to said more often than not they do end up tipping.
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JOSEPH GUZMEN, NEW YORK RESIDENT: I put the dollar too, I don't mind it as long as like, you know, it's not a lie. I just put it because I don't mind this is -- actually, I am helping out other people.
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YURKEVICH: This is provisions on state, a butcher shop. There is no table service, no cooking or serving. Yet, they will ask you if you'd like to tip.
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YURKEVICH: A flip screen in a butcher shop --
EMILY MINGRONE, CONNECTICUT RESTAURANT OWNER: Yes.
YURKEVICH: -- I don't think I've ever seen that before.
MINGRONE: Yes.
YURKEVICH: How did you decide to do that?
MINGRONE: These men and women have a knowledge base that they're sharing and taking care to share with the guests that come through the door, and they're not pressured to tip, but they want to because they're paying for a service provided.
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YURKEVICH: Emily Mingrone owns the butcher shop and two restaurants in New Haven, Connecticut. At the restaurants, her front of house staff make the state's tipped minimum wage, $6.38 an hour. Tips bring them to $40 an hour on average. But, the back of house staff make half that and aren't eligible for tips.
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YURKEVICH: This movement to get rid of the tipped minimum wage, are you for it, against it?
MINGRONE: I'm against it, and I think frankly it's kind of clueless.
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[10:55:00]
YURKEVICH: Eight states have abolished the tipped minimum wage, which in some is as low as $2.13 an hour. The National Restaurant Association is fighting against it, calling it a top issue.
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MINGRONE: That's money that's going to come out of my pocket, take away from the people that aren't getting tipped, I would need to raise my prices, which then causes pushback from the guest.
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YURKEVICH: But, the group One Fair Wage is moving legislation and ballot measures to end the tip to minimum wage in 25 other states, including Illinois.
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DESTINY FOX, CHICAGO SERVER: That's how I live, is with tips.
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YURKEVICH: Destiny Fox works in two Chicago restaurants. She is saving up for school. She makes just above the state's tipped minimum wage, taking home $9.40 an hour, tips at 80 percent to her take home pay. Without it --
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FOX: It wouldn't give me the means to live, to pay my bills, to eat, and to do the things that I'm planning on doing, school. And I mean, it's everything.
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YURKEVICH: Listen, this is a complicated issue. But, the consensus is, if you receive good service at a restaurant or someone makes your day at a coffee shop, you tip 20 percent at the restaurant, $1 or $2 at the coffee shop. One thing to know, when they flipped that screen on you, the person who is serving you actually doesn't know if you tip or not, and they don't know how much.
BOLDUAN: Oh, interesting. I think that is part of --
YURKEVICH: Take some of the pressure off, right?
BOLDUAN: Yes. But, it is -- it's -- I think it's also important to see the faces behind that screen that turns in your face, and to see the people behind the tip, if you will.
YURKEVICH: Yes. It's based on service. How well do you think that person served you? That's what your tip should be.
BOLDUAN: Thanks for doing that.
YURKEVICH: Thanks.
BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Vanessa. Sara.
SIDNER: All right. There is just about an hour left for the last of Trump's co-defendants to turn himself in at the Fulton County Jail. There is a trial date now. A judge has agreed to a date just two months from now. So, what happens next? Stay with us. We'll have the answer.
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