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Impact of Trump Indictments on Republican Presidential Race?; Trump Surrenders in Georgia. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Inmate No. P01135809. Donald Trump turns himself into the Fulton County Jail, and his mug shot enters the history books.

What is next? A flurry of hearings and trial dates set to compete with a packed political calendar. So, how does he pay for that campaign?

Mug shot merch with the slogan "Never Surrender" just hours after he did just that in Fulton County.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: And a dramatic drop in the number of people still listed as missing after the Hawaii wildfires, as Maui County files its own lawsuit against the utility companies it blames for causing that fire.

We are following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Former President, current Republican primary front-runner and brief inmate Donald Trump's surrender in Fulton County last night led to the very first mug shot for a former occupant of the Oval Office.

Trump has already plastered the booking photo on the campaign chachkas, but long after the 2024 race, that image will still be in history books. Trump wasn't the final defendant to surrender in the 2020 Georgia election interference indictment. This morning, the last two turned themselves in. So, now all 19 defendants have been booked.

One of them has to remain in jail until his bond is set. Another already has a trial date just eight weeks away. And one is the latest to say that she was acting at then-President Trump's direction.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is at the courthouse for us.

Katelyn, yet another defendant saying that it was Trump who directed directly the fake elector effort.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right.

This is very likely to be a refrain that comes up again and again and again. But, right now, this is coming from Cathy Latham, one of the fake electors who is accused as part of this racketeering conspiracy and other charges in the case against Donald Trump and 18 others.

Cathy Latham is saying in a court filing that she wants her case moved to federal court because she was essentially acting at the direction of the administration, the direction of the president specifically. And that allows her some protections, she says, under the Constitution.

She also says she was following the lawyers' advice when she became a fake elector, the lawyers around Donald Trump who were telling her that was the plan moving forward. And so this is indicative of a couple things,one, that we're going to have a bunch of federal court proceedings here, not just with her, but with two other fake electors who've asked for the same type of protection.

We also are seeing a judge already willing to look at similar arguments being made by Mark Meadows, who was the White House chief of staff, Jeffrey Clark, who was in the Justice Department at the time, on whether the case could be moved to federal court.

Trump hasn't asked for that yet, but he has some time. He still could. And the other thing that's indicative of is that it's not a defense that Cathy Latham and the others are making now. It's just a legal argument to try and get the case moved. But they very well could start building this out into what their defense would be if they are to go to trial, trying to point the finger at the people above them, specifically Donald Trump.

And so we're going to wait and see if that comes into play as we wait and watch for more of these possible filings and to see what the judge wants to do here. It looks right now like the federal judge who is handling these questions of moving the case is going to take each of these people's petitions one at a time.

There's already a hearing set for Monday with Mark Meadows, where there will be witness testimony.

KEILAR: Yes, we will be looking for that, that is the next big step here.

Katelyn Polantz live for us from the courthouse, thank you.

And now just a short -- short bump down the road there to the Fulton County Jail and CNN's Nick Valencia, who is there.

Nick, the parade of surrenders actually concluded this morning, although there is still one person who remains detained at the jail.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Harrison Floyd, we believe, is still in the jail. And he's going to stay there until his bond agreement is worked out.

But the last of the two co-defendants to turn themselves in basically waited until the 11th hour to do so. First, earlier today, it was Trevian Kutti, the Kanye West-linked publicist who also did work at one time for R. Kelly, who's charged with trying to intimidate Fulton County election worker Ruby Freeman.

[13:05:12]

VALENCIA: Kutti is said to have driven down from her Chicago area home to tell Freeman that she was a loose end that needed to be tidied up.

Also surrendering earlier today was pastor Stephen Lee. He's an Illinois-based pastor who's accused of doing the same thing, also trying to intimidate Fulton County election worker Freeman by knocking on her door.

And it was after Lee surrendered and was released that his attorney spoke to the media here, saying not only does his client not know Donald Trump personally, but that he's just accused for -- he's been indicted, rather, for simply knocking on somebody's door.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SHESTOKAS, ATTORNEY FOR STEPHEN LEE: Yes, I guess I have seen that happen with some Jehovah's Witnesses and people from Latter Day Saints. And this is just a pastor.

VALENCIA: Did he come down here to proselytize, you're saying?

SHESTOKAS: Now you're -- now you're now you're asking about some particular specifics.

VALENCIA: Well, you brought up Jehovah's Witness. You said people come and knock on doors all the time. The intention matters.

(CROSSTALK)

SHESTOKAS: ... knocking on doors all the time.

VALENCIA: So he came and knocked on the door having nothing to do with the subversion of the election here?

SHESTOKAS: Absolutely not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: So, a glimpse perhaps into the defense for Pastor Stephen Lee.

Meanwhile, overnight, the former DOJ official Jeffrey Clark, who's been charged with the RICO indictment, as well as making false statements to prosecutors, he turned himself in. With all co- defendants now having surrendered, we look ahead until Monday, where former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, the former chief of staff for the former president, has a federal court hearing.

He's trying to get his criminal proceedings moved from state court to federal court, where he hopes to get these charges dismissed -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes.

As for that pastor, he was coming to spread a message, but it doesn't appear it was that one that you were hinting at there, Nick.

Thank you so much for that live horse from the Fulton County Jail -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: A great deal set to happen in the next several weeks in this Georgia case.

It begins on Monday, when former Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has a hearing in his attempt to move the Fulton County prosecution, the state prosecution against him, to federal court.

At the same time the former DOJ official Jeffrey Clark, also charged in this case, his bid to move his case federal court is set for September 18th. Fani Willis has until September 5 to file a written court response to Clark's request. We will see if those attempts are successful.

It is during that same week of September 5 that DA Willis wanted Trump and all 18 of his co-defendants to be arraigned. Exact dates each defendant will have to be arraigned has not been worked out, for the most part, except for Kenneth Chesebro right here. He is accused of being the architect of that fake electors plot, his arraignment set for September 6.

Chesebro had requested a speedy trial, moving up his dates. The DA's office has pointed to that request as one of their reasons for a trial date for all the other defendants as well of October 23. The former president he has already filed a motion to oppose this date.

His other legal cases, though, make for a very busy calendar coming up, particularly in an election year, his next few months littered with proposed trial dates starting possibly as early as October 2, lasting all the way up until May of next year.

You can see there the New York A.G. civil trial, the GA trial, the federal elections of version plot, the E. Jean Carroll defamation case, the New York state hush money trial, criminal classified documents trial date as well. Again, some of these are proposed.

We will see when they actually happen.

Let's speak now to CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

I do want to begin, if I can, Jennifer, with the latest news here. And that is, Cathy Latham, she served as a fake elector in Trump's plot to overturn the election. She has said in her case she was following the orders of then-President Trump. She's not the only one.

Co-defendant Shawn Still, David Shafer have made similar allegations. Is that damaging? Is that legally dangerous for the president, the former president himself?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's a sign for what may be to come, Jim.

I mean, this particular proceeding is just to try to remove to federal court. So, to do that, because she was not herself a federal employee, she has to argue that she was acting at the direction of one. So, it doesn't necessarily mean bad things in terms of what she's going to claim when it comes to the actual case if she does go to trial at the end of the day.

But it's a hint, right? And it's typically what happens. The people lower down on the totem pole will say, hey, wait a minute, I was just doing what I was told. I didn't have the particular intent myself to subvert the election.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

[13:10:00]

RODGERS: So I think we can expect that that's what will be coming from these lower-level defendants as we move forward into the substantive case as well.

SCIUTTO: So, just following orders.

OK, Willis, she wants to have all 19 defendants tried at the same time. At this point, it is only Chesebro's trial set for October. Is it possible that we could end up seeing a dozen or more trials, multiple trials, at different dates for all involved, including the former president?

RODGERS: I don't think we will see that many trials.

I mean, RICO trials are evidence-intensive. They take time. You have to prove the existence of the conspiracy, the racketeering enterprise, and its scope for every single trial that you do. So the prosecutors are not going to want to do that.

And defendants are going to want more time. So we're definitely not going to see a huge trial in October. And we may see some severance. So, it will depend on how many defendants exit the case. I think, in pretty quick order here, Fani Willis and her team will start trying to plead out some of these lower-level defendants and get them out of the case altogether so that they end up with a group that is manageable for trial.

So we may see more than one trial depending on how many are left and depending on whether Chesebro stays with his demand for an early trial, but we certainly won't see five, six or more trials like that.

SCIUTTO: Now, I imagine if one of the trials happens earlier, it looks like Chesebro's will be that one, that defense attorneys for, say, the former president might watch that trial very closely to get a sense exactly of what the DA's case is.

Is that an advantage potentially for...

RODGERS: It is an advantage. It is. SCIUTTO: Yes.

RODGERS: Yes, because they have to prove the existence of the enterprise and they will have to prove some of the predicate acts to give the scope of the actions that happen. So they will definitely be on the lookout for all of that, what proof they put forward for that.

Obviously, if Chesebro goes alone, it will be tailored towards him. They will be mostly focused on what he does as far as which predicate acts they prove up and that sort of thing. But it will still be helpful for all defendants, because some of these witnesses that they will use to prove the existence of the enterprise and its overall mission will be the same for all trials.

So it certainly is an advantage.

SCIUTTO: Jennifer Rodgers, thanks so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but this one, former President Trump's campaign is hoping is worth a whole lot more. How his team is raising money off of this historic mug shot.

Plus, a dramatic drop in the number of missing people in Maui, as officials race to identify the lost. Also, we're learning the state's main electric utility is now accused of compromising evidence in the wildfire investigation. We are on the latest there.

And the school year has begun across the U.S., but some districts are already closing their doors as cases of COVID and other viruses spike.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:56]

SCIUTTO: One man's police record another man's claimed badge of honor.

It took former president less than two hours to start exploiting the use of his mug shot for fund-raising, breaking his silence on X, formerly known as Twitter, and seemingly coining a new campaign slogan, "Never Surrender," despite the obvious fact that, in fact, he did surrender to that jail yesterday.

CNN's Alayna Treene us now from New Jersey near Trump's Bedminster resort.

And I wonder. I know the public spin here. He's claiming this is a badge of honor. Does his camp actually believe that his surrender at the Fulton County Jail yesterday is a positive for him?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Jim, I was on the ground with Donald Trump's team yesterday. I was riding in that motorcade with a lot of the former president's aides as they went from the airport to the Fulton County Jail.

And you could tell that they were a little bit unsure of how it was going to go. But I did continue to speak with them while they were on the plane last night and after they got back to New Jersey as well as throughout today. And, largely, they think it went as well as it could have.

Of course, nobody wants to be indicted in this sense. They do not want to be arrested and have their mug shot taken. I know that you're seeing the former president share this on TRUTH Social. Of course, he rejoined Twitter, formerly known -- or X, formerly known as Twitter, to share this as well. They're trying to monetize off it. They're trying to get a lot of media attention around it.

But the former president is also very frustrated about this. We did hear him speak about his surrender in an interview last night on Newsmax, where he called it a -- quote -- "terrible experience."

He also shared that some of the other people, the other co-defendants who had received mug shots, that he didn't recognize them. Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I look at some of the other people. Now, I don't know a lot of those people. I don't even know that I have met a lot of those people, but some, I do. And their lives are destroyed by these maniacs. These are animals. These are vicious animals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, Jim, "vicious animals" is how Donald Trump is describing the people who are prosecuting him.

And this is the kind of language we have come to expect from him. But, again, he is very frustrated about this behind the scene. He did not want to have to go to Georgia again and go through a process like this for the fourth time -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, well, he's describing then the grand jury that sat down, considered the evidence, and decided there was enough evidence to indict him and the co-defendants. He's describing them as vicious animals as well.

Alayna Treene, thanks so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: And we're joined now by CNN national politics correspondent Eva McKend and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent with us as well.

Charlie, the former president has fund-raised off of all of his previous indictments. I suppose we are not surprised at all that it's any different this time.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, not at all. Of course, he monetizes his indictments. He monetizes his victimization, and he thinks this is going to help him politically. And maybe he gets a little bump out of the primary. But I keep coming

back to these swing voters and independents. I can't imagine one independent or swing voter saying, I'm going to vote for that guy now that he's been indicted four times.

[13:20:07]

I think it's really quite devastating. At some point, there's going to be a reality check. And a lot of Republican voters are going to have to recognize the electability argument of a guy who's been indicted four times.

KEILAR: The picture gives him a merch opportunity. But what do you see when you look at it?

DENT: I see an angry scowl, a man who's very -- he's just angry, bitter, and he seems like he's dead set on retribution. That's what it looks like to me. It's a nasty photo.

KEILAR: Clearly, he thought about what look he wanted on his face for. And I think we can be sure that he did that.

I do want to look, Eva, at some of the polling here. Among GOP voters, a Trump indictment makes them 32 percent, they say, more likely to support him, more likely; 17 percent say less likely. But, among independents, 8 percent more likely. 34 percent say less likely.

He needs independents. What are you hearing from voters as you talk to them?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: And that sort of mirrors what I have been hearing on the ground.

I have texted with an Iowa state lawmaker today to get his response to all of this. And even he, who is planning to caucus for Vivek Ramaswamy, Vivek Ramaswamy, says that this is political, that that is largely the response that he is hearing, and that the former president is not going to lose one vote off of this.

But I spoke to a voter in Georgia, and she told me that she did support Trump in 2020. She wanted him to shake things up, but she wasn't expecting an earthquake. And she told me that she's not going to support him again this time around.

So you do have to wonder if the cumulative impact of all this on voters over time does change some minds, especially some who are more sort of independent, lean right, but not as firmly right in Trump's base.

KEILAR: Do operatives worry that this is going to peel off people who they really needed to show up for Trump?

MCKEND: They aren't saying that as yet, but I think that they are certainly concerned.

DENT: Well, I know a lot of people who do Republican polling. Yes, they're really alarmed. They know that Trump is a major drag on

the ticket, on down-ballot candidates, particularly in these swing districts where Republicans need to win, swing districts, swing states. This is a catastrophe. There's no way around it.

I don't know how these people can sit there, say with a straight face, this is somehow helpful. I know people who've been indicted federally. Their lives are ruined. They're turned upside down. This is a horrible thing. For Trump, it's just another day that ends in Y, apparently.

But, nevertheless, I just don't see how you recover from this. Between Trump's problems and the abortion issue, Republicans have a drag they got to deal with. And they're not sure how to handle it.

KEILAR: It's helpful, but helpful with the people he doesn't need help with. That's the thing we're seeing.

Eva, how do Democrats look at this? How are they going to utilize this?

MCKEND: Well, one of the first things I saw was Congressman Bowman of New York tweet out this video of him laughing hysterically, sort of gleeful with the mug shot of the former president in the background.

But then, also, he also tweeted recognizing, look, the former president is going to use this to really galvanize his base. I think Democrats have to tread lightly here. The former president has convinced a lot of these conservative voters that our systems of justice in this country have been weaponized and that, ultimately, conservatives are victims.

And this mug shot and all that it comes with it only sort of allows him to bolster that argument, false that it may be.

DENT: Republicans need to actually take him down. It's not going to be the Democrats or the courts who are going to take Donald Trump down. It's going to have to be Republicans, particularly these people running against him.

I watched Ramaswamy on the debate the other night. And he basically looked like he was running to be vice president for Donald Trump. He wasn't trying to win. Until these candidates stand up and draw a hard contrast with the guy who's leading, I don't see how they take him down.

But they need a few more Chris Christies and people speaking like him about the risks associated with a guy who's engaged in such terrible misconduct. It was criminal conduct.

MCKEND: But you saw the response that Christie got, though, right?

(CROSSTALK)

DENT: Yes, in that room.

But you get outside that room. I'm talking about swing voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and Georgia, and Arizona. They're looking at this, and they -- I don't see an upside. I don't think anybody who's serious about politics sees an upside. Those of us who've been around for more than five minutes realize these types of indictments are devastating.

KEILAR: That may be the test, outside of that room.

DENT: Yes.

KEILAR: But it's certainly telling what happened inside.

Eva, Congressman, thank you so much to both of you -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Ahead: Maui County says Hawaiian Electric caused the devastating and deadly wildfire that ripped through thousands of acres of land. Now the county's filed a lawsuit. More on exactly what it's alleging ahead.

Plus, the Kremlin is dismissing the speculation it was behind the plane crash believed to have killed Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin. Ahead, what the Pentagon is saying about his presumed death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:40]

SCIUTTO: The FBI has now released a list of the missing on Maui that remains heartbreakingly long.

It contains the names of 388 people still unaccounted for after what is already the deadliest wildfire in a century. The list, though, thankfully, is much shorter than first estimates of the missing, which exceeded more than 1,000 people at times in the days just after the August 8 disaster.

The police chief explained why Maui County is now releasing.